Balotelli Ready to 'Kill' Racists

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18260738

While I applaud his spirit, I can't help but feel he's just made himself a target for the racist thugs in Poland and Ukraine now.

azania wrote:PBK I understand, but from my point of view, overt racism of that nature and what the cops did cannot be stopped by re-education. You simply ostracise them. When they wonder why they are left in the cold, then they will understand.

But in a situation like Ukraine, you walk and when the game is abandoned, they will wonder why. Some invested thinking will happen. I dont believe in spending money trying to 'reach' these people. Either they are left out in the cold and not invited to the party of they are beaten up. I've heard too many wishy washy comments about educating bigots. That sh1t don't work.

UEFa dug this hole. This isn't a new problem in these 2 countries they shouldn't be hosting a tournament. I think education works if it is implemented from a young age. The Scottish government embraced that train of thought in dealing with sectarianism in Glasgow and I think it's working. The dinosaurs one day will die out and Glasgow will hopefully be free of one of the chains that has been round its ankle for far too long.

There are somethings which are just wrong that no questions need be asked. We are all human beings. Disliking someone because of the colour of their skin is wrong without question. Acting upon that hate with violence is abhorrent . Asking why is irrelevant as it gives them the platform they want to spread their vile words as they seek to justify it. Read up on Mandela's Rivona speech.

The last few words:

During my lifetime I have dedicated myself to this struggle of the African people. I have fought against white domination, and I have fought against black domination. I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve. But if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die.

Madiba is a great man. Forgiving and generous. But I believe bigots of the type on display in Ukraine should be cut out of society and questions asked much later.

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:

azania wrote:PBK I understand, but from my point of view, overt racism of that nature and what the cops did cannot be stopped by re-education. You simply ostracise them. When they wonder why they are left in the cold, then they will understand.

But in a situation like Ukraine, you walk and when the game is abandoned, they will wonder why. Some invested thinking will happen. I dont believe in spending money trying to 'reach' these people. Either they are left out in the cold and not invited to the party of they are beaten up. I've heard too many wishy washy comments about educating bigots. That sh1t don't work.

UEFa dug this hole. This isn't a new problem in these 2 countries they shouldn't be hosting a tournament. I think education works if it is implemented from a young age. The Scottish government embraced that train of thought in dealing with sectarianism in Glasgow and I think it's working. The dinosaurs one day will die out and Glasgow will hopefully be free of one of the chains that has been round its ankle for far too long.

EUFA are a joke. FIFA is a joke. They are old dinosaurs. I feel sorry for Platini to an extent as he was handed this poison chalice. But he did Jack about it. Its not as though it was an unknown prior to the recent headlines. Whenever teams with black players go there (Eastern Europe) to play, racists are heard everywhere are a slapped writ is given. They should start closing stadia or simply throwing countries out.

azania wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:You dont have to if you dont want to pal. I however do find it interesting as to why?. I question everything, its just the way I operate.

You weren't questioning the racism coming out of Ukraine though. You were excusing it.

More trying to understand rather than excuse dude. Thowing another side to the debate- that is what debating is for. I shouldnt have said it was retarded for people to think that botelli was making a stand. Because i agree its abit ironic. But at the same time his comments wont help and could just ignite. He at least is a strong individual and that in a way needs to be respected for not being afraid to speak his mind. I mean i do it and so do you Az..

mystiroakey wrote:

azania wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:You dont have to if you dont want to pal. I however do find it interesting as to why?. I question everything, its just the way I operate.

You weren't questioning the racism coming out of Ukraine though. You were excusing it.

More trying to understand rather than excuse dude. Thowing another side to the debate- that is what debating is for. I shouldnt have said it was retarded for people to think that botelli was making a stand. Because i agree its abit ironic. But at the same time his comments wont help and could just ignite. He at least is a strong individual and that in a way needs to be respected for not being afraid to speak his mind. I mean i do it and so do you Az..

What is there to understand?

Sorry but I fully support Mario and if his comments inflame the situation, let it burn. I don't see how it will ignite anything. Out them.

azania wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:

azania wrote:PBK I understand, but from my point of view, overt racism of that nature and what the cops did cannot be stopped by re-education. You simply ostracise them. When they wonder why they are left in the cold, then they will understand.

But in a situation like Ukraine, you walk and when the game is abandoned, they will wonder why. Some invested thinking will happen. I dont believe in spending money trying to 'reach' these people. Either they are left out in the cold and not invited to the party of they are beaten up. I've heard too many wishy washy comments about educating bigots. That sh1t don't work.

UEFa dug this hole. This isn't a new problem in these 2 countries they shouldn't be hosting a tournament. I think education works if it is implemented from a young age. The Scottish government embraced that train of thought in dealing with sectarianism in Glasgow and I think it's working. The dinosaurs one day will die out and Glasgow will hopefully be free of one of the chains that has been round its ankle for far too long.

EUFA are a joke. FIFA is a joke. They are old dinosaurs. I feel sorry for Platini to an extent as he was handed this poison chalice. But he did Jack about it. Its not as though it was an unknown prior to the recent headlines. Whenever teams with black players go there (Eastern Europe) to play, racists are heard everywhere are a slapped writ is given. They should start closing stadia or simply throwing countries out.

Platini cosied up with a lot of these nations to get in. He targeted the vote of the lesser nations like Poland offering them an easier route into European football and a fairer distribution of wealth. I'm not saying he condones racism but he won't cut off his nose to spite his face. Some of the Eastern block countries where racism is rife is where a large chunk of the votes that got him the gig came from.

azania wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

azania wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:You dont have to if you dont want to pal. I however do find it interesting as to why?. I question everything, its just the way I operate.

You weren't questioning the racism coming out of Ukraine though. You were excusing it.

More trying to understand rather than excuse dude. Thowing another side to the debate- that is what debating is for. I shouldnt have said it was retarded for people to think that botelli was making a stand. Because i agree its abit ironic. But at the same time his comments wont help and could just ignite. He at least is a strong individual and that in a way needs to be respected for not being afraid to speak his mind. I mean i do it and so do you Az..

What is there to understand?

Sorry but I fully support Mario and if his comments inflame the situation, let it burn. I don't see how it will ignite anything. Out them.

Everything Az

Its all good questioning and trying to rationalise whilst people get assaulted and insulted. Sorry but a typical hand wringing liberal approach. Talk whilst Rome burns.

Az there isnt gonna be no war dude. Look at western europe- we have/are turning the tide pal- and its all through eduction,intellegence and time, and alot of it just simply understanding!

mystiroakey wrote:Az there isnt gonna be no war dude. Look at western europe- we have/are turning the tide pal- and its all through eduction,intellegence and time, and alot of it just simply understanding!

Who says there's going to be a war? Its all good saying great strides in western europe. How long did it take? The Ukrainians are still a generation at least behind. We wait.......patiently and understand them. Do we also sing kumbaya and "we shall overcome.....some day"?

Your words are abit strong Az its sounds like war talk.

We have to interagrate them pal- stop the boundaries, thats how you overcome- bring down boundaries. otherwise the race problem goes the other way.

and no kumbaya and all that religious nonsense doesnt really help dude.

however i must add we should have very clear defined rules on racism that need to be adheared to . Uefa missed that trick big time. Makes me mad

mystiroakey wrote:Your words are abit strong Az its sounds like war talk.

We have to interagrate them pal- stop the boundaries, thats how you overcome- bring down boundaries. otherwise the race problem goes the other way.

and no kumbaya and all that religious nonsense doesnt really help dude.

Its only #war words' if people want to take it as war words. For me its simple and straightforward.

I know its simple to you pal. But that doesnt mean it is or should be to anyone else.

Actually Oakey, what were the war words? And how did you come to that conclusion?

war words- like let it burn and out them.Neither of us want these racists there- its just you want to counter it with violence- i dont!

mystiroakey wrote:war words- like let it burn and out them.Neither of us want these racists there- its just you want to counter it with violence- i dont!

One thing history has taught me if that you cannot rationalise with nutters. Ghandi is known as a great man for good reason. He said that the allies should talk to Hitler and passive resistance would be the best weapon.

Yeah right.

One thing which I will make clear. Chrystal clear in fact is that were anyone to racially insult me they will regret it. If anyone racially insults my son and/or daughter it would actually be a terrible mistake on their part. It is what it is.

For me it's not war words. The war words are what the racists say. You may try and liberally educate them, but pardon me if I defend myself and my family. Only someone who has faced it would understand. You haven't so you don't. No offense meant.

Az there is alot i have been through pal and witnessed. I have lived in the most multicultural places you could imagine(suburban south london). i am not gonna get into these specific stories but i am very wise to racism and in many cases i almost understand why people are racist from first hand experience!, that goes for blacks ,white irish,white council estate stock and eastern european(I own a facilities company and i employ alot of people in the engineer/cleaners type roles). I dont really want to get into those topics because there are pretty strong and very real at the same time- but it could just elevate this discussion to another level.

but one that is almost relevant to this debate was from when i lived in a flat during the last euro cup.

We have many polish living and working around that area. I stepped out of my flat just before a poland game and 10 plus polish in there shirts came over to me drinking beers and started having a pop(yeah i was wearing an england top ) . remeber this is outside my house!! and one pushed up against the wall and was threatening me. It all stopped in the end and nothing really happened. However this is the sort of typical behaviour that plagued engllish football 20 years ago. there were not neccesarily nazis, but just t..w..ats. There is a strong problem in poland and ukranie and they need to cut out all anti social behaviour, b ut the more pressing issue is the organised racism- that howevre is a massive minority- but it still is the worst aspect of there social issues, however from experience id say 80% of people are racist to a certain degree- but 99.99% of them dont act there racism out..

The difference is mate, you have the whole state apparatus looking out for you. You are never looked at as a suspect even when you are the victim.

People are not born racist. Racism is learned behaviour.

azania wrote:The difference is mate, you have the whole state apparatus looking out for you. You are never looked at as a suspect even when you are the victim.

People are not born racist. Racism is learned behaviour.

Exactly

I'm not about to waste my time waiting for Ukrainian head bangers to unlearn. Ostracise them totally until they unlearn that behaviour. They have to know why they are being isolated and what they have to do.

I believe in active help not passive help. Would you tell your mate to be patient when he is having his head kicked in?

I think your right about active help.

Just not playing Holly Wilaboobie for tat or ostracising them completely, I cant agree to that because then these countries would just get worse and worse- yeah they might eventually sort stuff out but without being part of a global economy they wont, and being part of a system that punishes them they will learn faster

Racsim in european games must be punished. If a team shows racism they need to be fined heavily(this also goes for spain and all!!!)- if they do it again they need to be fined big money(like 10% of revenue), if they do it a third time the club needs to be banned for a year.

I have no idea why uefa and fifa arnt doing this, and why we get these insane blatter comments like shake hands or dont be gay- it really does not make sense-Football is so important to these nations , football could and should be kicking racism/prejudice out of sport.

But what do we do at present when uefa or fifa arnt doing zip all about it. Well britain lobbies this all the time, so at least we are doing something about it- we need to get france,germany,italy involved as well and really put pressure on them..

however poland is joining the EU fully i think- so they will be pressuresed big time at a higher level to sort stuff out

I would like to point out Celtic played Shaktar Donetsk on two separate occasions in the Champions League and I have mates that went to both games and they said it was a great place to go and watch football and two of them are black.

I was at both home ties and they brought a big support and their was no problem with them. Shaktar weren't in the BBC documentary mind you.

mystiroakey wrote:I think your right about active help.

Just not playing Holly Wilaboobie for tat or ostracising them completely, I cant agree to that because then these countries would just get worse and worse- yeah they might eventually sort stuff out but without being part of a global economy they wont, and being part of a system that punishes them they will learn faster

Racsim in european games must be punished. If a team shows racism they need to be fined heavily(this also goes for spain and all!!!)- if they do it again they need to be fined big money(like 10% of revenue), if they do it a third time the club needs to be banned for a year.

I have no idea why uefa and fifa arnt doing this, and why we get these insane blatter comments like shake hands or dont be gay- it really does not make sense-Football is so important to these nations , football could and should be kicking racism/prejudice out of sport.

But what do we do at present when uefa or fifa arnt doing zip all about it. Well britain lobbies this all the time, so at least we are doing something about it- we need to get france,germany,italy involved as well and really put pressure on them..

however poland is joining the EU fully i think- so they will be pressuresed big time at a higher level to sort stuff out

It help end apartheid.

Yes it did- and good for the dudes in SA that made the change. However it isnt fixed yet is it. But the truth is SA was so much worse than ukraine and poland surely.

mystiroakey wrote:Yes it did- and good for the dudes in SA that made the change. However it isnt fixed yet is it. But the truth is SA was so much worse than ukraine and poland surely.

Society is not fixed yet. But the biggest obstacle to fixing it was removed through boycott of sporting contact and cultural exchanges. Guess what dude. It worked.

I am not goiong to seperate degrees of racism. Where you have a society that its law enforcement officers openly turn a blind eye to racially motovated assault, that society is sick and as such I believe they must be taught a lesson (in a non violent manner naturally as europeans/Americans are the only ones permitted to use violence).