vitali's next defense

according to bild.de (german sports site) vitalis next defense is likely to be unbeated manuel charr, WBC international silver heavyweight champion. the guy has beat danny williams a year ago, and won a MD over zack page. he is german, 27 so quite young for a heavyweight and 21-0-0 with 11 KOs

this fight is a huge waste of time, someone who struggles with zage page doesnt stand a chance with either klitskho.

with vitali having 2-3 fights left tops i'd have expected him to go for a more well known name.

are they even any fights left out there for him that add to his legacy at this stage?

I despair at the level of fighters at the HW division. I actually feel for K2 to have to go scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for fights.

Another 50k sellout looking to watch grass grow. I wonder if there will be a rematch clause in the contract.

I thought it was supposed to be Stiverne.

it was meant to be stiverne before chisora, dont know what happened with that one.

vitali vs wlad for vitalis last fight?

This adds nothing to legacy, except numbers, but anyone who investigates those numbers will discover how crap many of Vitali's opponents have been since he came back. He's what, forty? He should just retire. He's proving nothing by fighting bums like this. All he's doing is lining his pocket from stupid Germans who'd watch him fight a set of traffic lights if he says it's a good opponent. Fifty thousand will pack a stadium I watch some non-event like this, yet people complain that Haye and Chisora shoulnt fight? I know which one is the real travesty!!

I think he just wants to keep his popularity up - hes running for Mayor soon?

ShahenshahG wrote:I think he just wants to keep his popularity up - hes running for Mayor soon?

If that's so I'll venture so far as to say that his behaviour isn't in the best interests of the sport. Fighting bum after bum after bum just so people still know who he is when they come to vote is making people tired of dud fights (except in Germany/Switzerland).

Thinking about it, I would watch Vitali fighting a set of traffic lights.

Imagine that, a gone-mental Vitali in full boxing gear out on a junction somewhere bobbing, weaving and hitting some traffic lights. Youtube gold.

And it would probably be watched by more people than any of his fights against actual people. T'is a sad world we live in.

Il Gialloblu wrote:Thinking about it, I would watch Vitali fighting a set of traffic lights.

Imagine that, a gone-mental Vitali in full boxing gear out on a junction somewhere bobbing, weaving and hitting some traffic lights. Youtube gold.

And it would probably be watched by more people than any of his fights against actual people. T'is a sad world we live in.

I've seen a man fight a phone box. True story. That's Hull for you.

Melkor wrote:

Il Gialloblu wrote:Thinking about it, I would watch Vitali fighting a set of traffic lights.

Imagine that, a gone-mental Vitali in full boxing gear out on a junction somewhere bobbing, weaving and hitting some traffic lights. Youtube gold.

And it would probably be watched by more people than any of his fights against actual people. T'is a sad world we live in.

I've seen a man fight a phone box. True story. That's Hull for you.

I guess the phonebox was on the receiving end. Was there much holding going on?

ha clever work from bernt boente messes haye around for six months sending contracts and useing his name at any oppertunity then when haye finds another oppentent boente blames him for not wanting the fight ! haye fan or not the majority of boxing fans want this fight it is now obvious that boente does not and will not let vitali take it , he belives haye is too dangerous for the 40 yr old vit , the guy is an embarrasment to the sport and the fans world !!! as long as he is makeing easy money from the klits he wont care , just find it hard to belive vitali could let this happen !

I find it remarkable that anyone can still buy into the Haye hype that either or both of the brothers are avoiding him. A fight between Haye and either of the brothers has only been signed once when it failed to go through and it was Haye that pulled out, wlad was there on the date stipulated in the contract.

Similarly Haye has in the past said he would not fight Audley Harrison, was not interested in fighting Chisora and would only break his retirement for a Klitschko, all three of which he has done the complete opposite to, this is not a guy with much of a history of doing what he says when it comes to the heavyweight division but he still has his loyal little group believing every word when he claims the brothers are ducking him, unbelievable really.

Question about Haye.

If he wasnt British (lets say he was German for arguments sake) - If one of the Klits took the fight, would you be unimpressed?

The criticism would be that he was awful in the first fight, is a blown up cruiser and that its an easy fight for the K's.

Its only because he is British and talks BS in pressers that we feel that the Klits should fight him.

Dont know anything about the guy that Vit is fighting but who else worthy is out there? If the answer is Haye, then there really isnt anyone of interest in that division.

Haye was offered the fight with Vitali. He opted for Chisora instead.

Charr seems to be Germanys answer to Tyson Fury from what little of him I know.

Also - I think vitali wants the memory of Wlad easing past Haye erased so wants Haye to batter Chisora so the fight looks viable before he commits to any fight.

manos de piedra wrote:Haye was offered the fight with Vitali. He opted for Chisora instead.

Charr seems to be Germanys answer to Tyson Fury from what little of him I know.

what is this based on? i read haye agreed to all terms and they went quiet on him.
haye would take the fight in a heartbeat.

Who is there for the brothers to fight? If they want to get a pay day, then its not their fault the HW division is garbage.

OasisBFC wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Haye was offered the fight with Vitali. He opted for Chisora instead.

Charr seems to be Germanys answer to Tyson Fury from what little of him I know.

what is this based on? i read haye agreed to all terms and they went quiet on him.
haye would take the fight in a heartbeat.

Based on K2 offering Haye terms several times. Haye claims he agreed to them but I tend to think that once an easier and financially lucrative fight like Chisora emerged he was happy to ditch the K2 offer and fight Chisora instead.

If Vitali didnt want the fight they would never have even bothered offering terms. Even Haye admits they were offered a deal. He said he agreed and heard nothing back, K2 said he chose to fight Chisora instead. I think the latter is far more likely.

Didn't Breonte say he wanted nothing to do with Haye after the brawl?

azania wrote:Didn't Breonte say he wanted nothing to do with Haye after the brawl?

They offered Haye a contract not long after the brawl.

But they (Haye) was shouting about an existing contract at the post conference.

azania wrote:But they (Haye) was shouting about an existing contract at the post conference.

One which was offered back in 2011 that after a few months off he had finally decided to accept. Or so he says.

As is boxing, they grey areas are closer to the truth.

I think its fairly obvious what happened. Haye wanted the Vitali fight (on terms he found acceptable), he made up his mind to accept the accept the terms he had been quoted in late 2011 and decided to crash the Chisora/Vitali press conference in a blaze of publicity to promote the inneviteable future Vitali fight.

The brawl with Chisora was unanticipated. Shortly after he was offered a deal from Vitali to fight in September. I suspect he would have agreed to this but meanwhile Frank Warren got in touch, told him to hang on and that he might be be able to make him a generous offer to face Chisora in July if he could find out a way round the punishment.

Haye stalled and Warren came good with the offer and means to stage the Chisora fight so Haye opted to take that fight leaving Boente fuming. The usual nonsense and finger pointing in public.

If Warren had not managed to make the Chisora fight happen I think it would be Vitali/Haye later in the year.

manos de piedra wrote:

OasisBFC wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Haye was offered the fight with Vitali. He opted for Chisora instead.

Charr seems to be Germanys answer to Tyson Fury from what little of him I know.

what is this based on? i read haye agreed to all terms and they went quiet on him.
haye would take the fight in a heartbeat.

Based on K2 offering Haye terms several times. Haye claims he agreed to them but I tend to think that once an easier and financially lucrative fight like Chisora emerged he was happy to ditch the K2 offer and fight Chisora instead.

If Vitali didnt want the fight they would never have even bothered offering terms. Even Haye admits they were offered a deal. He said he agreed and heard nothing back, K2 said he chose to fight Chisora instead. I think the latter is far more likely.

you don't actually know that though do you. one camp is saying one thing and another something different - and you're choosing to believe one over the other based on nothing.

I tend to believe Hayes side of the argument more than Boente but that's more because I don't trust the guy at all, he's a slimey toad who boxing would be better off without.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I tend to believe Hayes side of the argument more than Boente but that's more because I don't trust the guy at all, he's a slimey toad who boxing would be better off without.

+1

OasisBFC wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

OasisBFC wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Haye was offered the fight with Vitali. He opted for Chisora instead.

Charr seems to be Germanys answer to Tyson Fury from what little of him I know.

what is this based on? i read haye agreed to all terms and they went quiet on him.
haye would take the fight in a heartbeat.

Based on K2 offering Haye terms several times. Haye claims he agreed to them but I tend to think that once an easier and financially lucrative fight like Chisora emerged he was happy to ditch the K2 offer and fight Chisora instead.

If Vitali didnt want the fight they would never have even bothered offering terms. Even Haye admits they were offered a deal. He said he agreed and heard nothing back, K2 said he chose to fight Chisora instead. I think the latter is far more likely.

you don't actually know that though do you. one camp is saying one thing and another something different - and you're choosing to believe one over the other based on nothing.

No Im going off what both parties agree happened. K2 said they offered Haye a draft contract to fight Vitali not long after the press conferance in Munich. Booth confirmed this, but said when he agreed to the terms that he didnt hear back from Vitali. Coincidentally this coincided with the Haye/Chisora fight becoming available. So either Booth agreed to the terms and herd nothing back from K2. Or he stalled and opted to fight Chisora.

Not quite true Manos if there was any truth in what said during the press conference itself where Haye says he agreed to all terms which Boente argued against, there's counter claims all over the place.

manos de piedra wrote:I think its fairly obvious what happened. Haye wanted the Vitali fight (on terms he found acceptable), he made up his mind to accept the accept the terms he had been quoted in late 2011 and decided to crash the Chisora/Vitali press conference in a blaze of publicity to promote the inneviteable future Vitali fight.

The brawl with Chisora was unanticipated. Shortly after he was offered a deal from Vitali to fight in September. I suspect he would have agreed to this but meanwhile Frank Warren got in touch, told him to hang on and that he might be be able to make him a generous offer to face Chisora in July if he could find out a way round the punishment.

Haye stalled and Warren came good with the offer and means to stage the Chisora fight so Haye opted to take that fight leaving Boente fuming. The usual nonsense and finger pointing in public.

If Warren had not managed to make the Chisora fight happen I think it would be Vitali/Haye later in the year.

Why was Booth then chiding Boente via Vitali as if a deal had been scuppered just after the brawl? Personally I wouldn't trust anything coming from Boente/K2 after their live Sky interview when Booth offered the negotiations for the Wlad fight to be made public. Boente wanted nothing to do with it. These guys are crooks in suits. They should be in banking.

i dont think vitali would mind waiting for haye/chisora,- it would just generate more interest in their fight after should they be able agree terms.

if chisora wins i expect wlad to go after him.

i still feel theres better fights out there than this charr guy

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:I think its fairly obvious what happened. Haye wanted the Vitali fight (on terms he found acceptable), he made up his mind to accept the accept the terms he had been quoted in late 2011 and decided to crash the Chisora/Vitali press conference in a blaze of publicity to promote the inneviteable future Vitali fight.

The brawl with Chisora was unanticipated. Shortly after he was offered a deal from Vitali to fight in September. I suspect he would have agreed to this but meanwhile Frank Warren got in touch, told him to hang on and that he might be be able to make him a generous offer to face Chisora in July if he could find out a way round the punishment.

Haye stalled and Warren came good with the offer and means to stage the Chisora fight so Haye opted to take that fight leaving Boente fuming. The usual nonsense and finger pointing in public.

If Warren had not managed to make the Chisora fight happen I think it would be Vitali/Haye later in the year.

Why was Booth then chiding Boente via Vitali as if a deal had been scuppered just after the brawl? Personally I wouldn't trust anything coming from Boente/K2 after their live Sky interview when Booth offered the negotiations for the Wlad fight to be made public. Boente wanted nothing to do with it. These guys are crooks in suits. They should be in banking.

The trusting Boente thing doesnt matter when you have someone as utterly unreliable with Booth and Hayes track record.

Boente had offered Haye a deal back in late 2011 prior to the Chisora fight (again both parties agree on this). After the Chisora fight Haye was ready to accept the terms offered previously and, in my opinion, crashed the press conferance in an attempt to drum up publicity and interest by being controversial seeing as there was little in his last performance to sell a the fight. Boente said "you had your chance for the fight earlier, now get in line". This annoyed Booth obviously and he accused Boente of backing ut of a deal that never was. Which eneded up being entirely irrelevant in any case because he was offered another a deal a couple of weeks later. He said he received the draft contract and contacted Shelley Finkel abut it. He then claimed he agreed to the terms but heard nothing back from K2 on it and thus went ahead with fighting Chisora.

K2 said they heard nothing back from Booth and accuse Booth of opting to select Chisora as an opponent instead of agreeing to the terms offered to fight Vitali.

It makes no sense for either party to accuse the other of being scared. Vitali has said many times he would fight Haye, he has offered Haye terms more than once to fight. If he didnt want the fight he wouldnt bother and why on earth would he be afraid of Haye in any case? I dont think he could be less afraid of him.

Equally, its rididulouc to say Haye never wanted the Vitali fight, he wouldnt have bothered crashing the press confernace and calling him out if he didnt want it. I just dont think he wants it right now when he has a much more favourable opportunity with Chisora on the table.

Its like what happened with the Audley Harrison fight. Theres an opportunity there that will make Haye alot of money for an easier fight and he wants to stall the Vitali fight. Boente is more than likely annoyed Haye is trying to dictate the terms and both camps are trying to discredit each other. Again.

Think that view is placing far too much emphasise on believing what Boente says.

its six of one and half a doxen of the other. neither can be expected to give a fair and accurate of what acutally went on.

So why was Booth having a dig at Boente through Vitali? He was saying that "your manager is dishonest...." (my paraphrase). If they both agreed a contract, Haye would have smirked and said the fight is on. Lets not forget Warren also saying that he wouldn't promote a fight with Haye/Chis in the aftermath.

it's laughable - we DO NOT KNOW what's happened.
only a hand full of people do and the amount of rubbish people talk about it a joke!

we haven't seen any contract....ever. you're choosing to believe what you want to believe.

Is making a statement such as Haye would take this fight in a heartbeat not also choosing what you want to believe, because you have absolutely no better means of knowing this than anything anyone else has claimed to the contrary.

As bad as Boente may be, I can't believe that otherwise sane people could be willing to believe Booth and Haye ahead of him.

Haye clearly has no interest in boxing anymore and is only willing to enter the ring if he thinks a fights is financially worthwhile.

Prior to the brawl in Munich, a fight with the Klitschko's was the only one avaliable that would have generated enough $$ to make Haye interested.
Post brawl - a fight with Chisora is also going to rake in the doe so Haye jumps at the opportunity.

Haye's the type of guy who would re-match Audley if that fight somehow became lucrative again.

rowley wrote:Is making a statement such as Haye would take this fight in a heartbeat not also choosing what you want to believe, because you have absolutely no better means of knowing this than anything anyone else has claimed to the contrary.

considering he already fought the better brother of the two, saying he'd face the older, slower brother who couldn't do much to a limited fighter in chisora, while making millions and getting back some professional integrity isn't much of a gamble.

Still pure speculation on your part to say he would take it in a heartbeat, particularly as this is the same guy who said he would never fight Harrison, had no interest in fighting Chisora and would only come out of retirement for a Klitschko.

End of the day I don't know who is telling the truth, Boente and Booth did not copy me in on the emails, however I do know that Haye does not have a great record when it comes to telling the truth as a heavyweight and I also think that wanting me to believe a guy who will take on Lennox Lewis on a fortnights notice and then move heaven and earth to get a rematch would go hiding behind the couch when Haye comes calling stretches credibility IMO.

Well... Its a bad fight, most of you would surely at least admit Haye would give more of an arguement to Vit.

rowley wrote:Still pure speculation on your part to say he would take it in a heartbeat, particularly as this is the same guy who said he would never fight Harrison, had no interest in fighting Chisora and would only come out of retirement for a Klitschko.

End of the day I don't know who is telling the truth, Boente and Booth did not copy me in on the emails, however I do know that Haye does not have a great record when it comes to telling the truth as a heavyweight and I also think that wanting me to believe a guy who will take on Lennox Lewis on a fortnights notice and then move heaven and earth to get a rematch would go hiding behind the couch when Haye comes calling stretches credibility IMO.

of course he took the lewis fight, he was offered a shot for THE world title, instant fame and a lot of money. and of course he wanted the rematch - he ended up with 60 stitches on his face and another loss on his record against the most unconditioned version of lewis ever to step in a ring.

and still that version of vitali would beat today's.

perhaps the wiser vitali realises his time at the top may come to an end. perhaps he doesnt need the risk at the end of such an illustrious career and with his team doing his dirty work he can look like they offered the fight to haye without actually putting himself in any danger.

See this is what amuses me about Haye, this blithe acceptance he represents such a risk, what has anyone seen at heavy to suggest he is such a risk to Vitali that he would have to hatch some plot that Machieveli would be proud of just to give the perception he wanted to fight him when nothing could be further from the truth.

Have to say though that I admire the fact that a bloke with such a proven track record of lying about his intentions at heavy can still manage to convince so many people Vitali is ducking him. Reminds me of the old saying "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" god only knows how this phrase finishes when it relates to fooling people the fourth time.

Not saying Vits ducking Haye, just saying that Haye represents a bigger risk than Vits actual opponent.

OasisBFC wrote:it's laughable - we DO NOT KNOW what's happened.
only a hand full of people do and the amount of rubbish people talk about it a joke!

we haven't seen any contract....ever. you're choosing to believe what you want to believe.

Its not actually all that complicated. After the brawl at the press conferance Haye was offered a contract to fight Vitali. This is confirmed by both camps.

What the disagreement is over is who backed out. Booth claims they set up the fight with Chisora, and then accepted the terms of the Vitali agreement but heard nothing back from K2. K2 say Booth and Haye did not accept terms and essentially chose to fight Chisora instead. This is a quote from Booth:

Haye's trainer and manager Adam Booth added: "A few weeks ago I received a first draft contract from K2/KMG, as a formal offer for the fight between David and Vitali.

"Once we'd announced the Chisora fight I left a message for Shelly Finkel, in which I informed him we were ready to move to completion of the agreement for Vitali versus David. However, since that message was sent to Finkel, I have received no reply.

Essentially what Booth wanted was to fight Chisora is July and then Vitali in September. Fairly unrealistic because 1. He might not even win the fight, 2. if it goes ahead the WBC will not allow Haye to fight for Vitalis title, 3. Limited time for promotion. 4. Potential fallout from the nature of the fight.

What Boente is saying is that if they wanted the fight with Vitali in September then they had to ditch the fight with Chisora and that they wouldnt do that.

It looks a fairly a straightforward case of Haye choosing to fight Chisora instead of Vitali, which given Hayes profile and motivations is hardly that surprising to begin with.

This link provides much of the details inculding Booth admitting he was offered a deal from Vitali and also that he only supposedly agreed to the terms after the fight with Chisora had been made.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/mobile/boxing/18156525

If you choose to believe Boente which many don't.

There was a deal on the table prior to Vitali fighting Chisora. Something happened for Booth to start accusing Boente of being dishonest during the melee.

Interesting, it seems its his last fight now.....

http://www1.skysports.com/boxing/news/12183/7797535/Vitali-to-sign-off-in-style

BoxingFan88 wrote:Interesting, it seems its his last fight now.....

http://www1.skysports.com/boxing/news/12183/7797535/Vitali-to-sign-off-in-style

It wont be his last fight. He wants Haye. If Haye beats Chisora, that fight will be made with or without the WBC belt. Quite why the WBC are taking a tough stance on this issue yet ignoring drug tests, only they will know.