Why Federer is so hard to watch

Dont get me wrong, Fed in full flow is a joy to behold and I watch all his matches when I can. However I do find it terribly difficult on the whole and I wondered if I'm alone.

This is something I've never found with previous favourites; McEnroe was the second best player I've ever seen but it was a dispassionate admiration. Lendl also. Borg too. Sampras never moved me, nor Agassi, Becker or even Edberg.

The thing with Federer is that he's essentially cheated. He's shown enough to convince me that at his best this is the type of game a mythical Greek God would play; powerful, artful and seemingly effortless. Maybe Mercury on a good day, or perhaps even Zeus. Fine, but then he let's us down by being human and flawed; having awful dips and lapses and now worst of all getting a bit older and rejoining the mortals more often than not.

So that's black mark number one; he's conned me and set me up for disappointment almost every match, which is tough to put yourself through.

Next he has been so close to smashing every record this sport has or will ever have into oblivion. Ok, he's got enough to be going on with, but it could have been 19 finals in a row (next best is Lendl with 6) rather than the fairly good 8 and 10. It could have been at least one Grand Slam but for the silly loss to Del Potro in the USO, or maybe had he not dipped in one final at RG, or certainly that semifinal with Nadal.

So that's black mark number two; he's not delivered on immortal untouchability.

Finally he won't let us give up on him. If he just sank back as a 30 (soon to be 31) year old should do in an era demanding more physicality and less accommodating to aggressive play than any previous period it would be ok. But the bugger won't do it. Here he is in yet another Slam semifinal, and people take his chances to usurp the #1 seriously.

So that's black mark number three; he keeps rekindling hope.


So all in all he's a pain to watch if, like me, you believe this guy has given us the greatest gift of tennis talent ever and you'd like to be able to relax and watch it displayed and rewarded as I feel such unique virtuosity should.

Oh well. Onto Friday, where I'll have him do it all over again.

You're in inspired form, this evening BB

Again I agree. There's something not right about seeing Roger struggle to get to finals, mainly due to the terrible courts we see today

Arguably his best performance of recent times, was that against Murray on of course the super fast courts of Dubai

I fear, if he gets to the final and gets humilated by Nadal, what it might do

Finally he should call it quits after the Olympics

But the thing I like about Fed is his stubborness, the way he won't hold back on his shot making - so I don't see him retiring soon

Awesome post.

I have the same emotions. I think it's the hope. The belief, which Roger rekindles every now and then, that TODAY may be the day when he produces one of those beautiful, timeless performances.

You've seen it before, on many occasions. When everything flows, and he's in the zone. You, the crowd, the commentators and even the opponent just shake your head in disbelief. I remember a time when I used to secretly take satisfaction in Roger losing a set - so I could see some more, watch him come back beautifully victorious.

Sadly those days are in decline.

I try not to get too caught up in it nowadays. Unfortunately, the last 9 months have rekindled that hope.



emancipator

Exactly my feelings, and watching Fed I am always reminded of the words of Mr Stimson (john Cleese) in Clockwise

t's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand.

Being a Federer fan I can relate to most of your post. Especially I always think about that US open loss to Del Po which would have given him 4 slams in a row. Well it was not to be.

mangamuri wrote:Being a Federer fan I can relate to most of your post. Especially I always think about that US open loss to Del Po which would have given him 4 slams in a row. Well it was not to be.

That US Open loss, remains his biggest let down. I stated at the time that if it was played again 10 times, Fed would win 10 times

Yep. I just about needed another TV after that.

Barry, thanks for that quote, it's truly insightful.

Have just posted on the match thread my admission that I couldn't watch all of Federer's match today. Discovered that Virginia Wade admitted to the same thing... even multi slam winning champions can be cowards.

My advantage over many other Federer fans is that I also like Nadal. I can take a Federer loss to Nadal... and a Nadal loss to Federer but some losses of either player to anyone else are just wrong. They go against the laws of nature... sort of.

barrystar wrote:Exactly my feelings, and watching Fed I am always reminded of the words of Mr Stimson (john Cleese) in Clockwise

t's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand.

On another forum that I visit, this is the signature of a die-hard Federer fan, Barry. for that quote. 'Time Please' would also agree with you.

bogbrush wrote:So all in all he's a pain to watch if, like me, you believe this guy has given us the greatest gift of tennis talent ever and you'd like to be able to relax and watch it displayed and rewarded as I feel such unique virtuosity should.

In some cases, the line between the 'current pain' and 'past pleasures' is a very thin one, to paraphrase Freddie Mercury (Is he the Greek god you refer to?).

There another thing. Who ever has followed Fed from 2003, got used to seeing him effortlessly beating others with style, easy, crazy shots, stuff not seen before or even thought possible, longevity etc.

Now it gets painful watching him struggle at one moment to unseeded players and then in next minute he produces a crazy shot that brings back the glory.

I attended the Basel Open last year full week and got to see him in best light, hoping he would vaporise Djoko in final, but it wasn't to be.

Watching him playing live from a few meters is amazing, only comparable to 1993 Monaco GP when Senna (my other hero) won and I was lucky to be there

Was hoping to make it to Halle this year and see Fed-Nadal, but I'm starting to build a house so can't make it.

Now seeing him lose does not pain me much as I know his time is passing slowly and he has done more than anyone ever.

Long live the legend

Good post BB, I'm not a great fan of the man but as a player his tennis speaks for itself...he's made the game look easy for a long time now. His style is amazing to watch...he plays the way anyone would like to play the game and he does so even more remarkably with a 90 inch racquet! In a way he kind of created his own monster with the success he had. I know we bemoan the courts and their speed but I do think this has played into his hands as well as he's been able to dominate with the same game...i.e, he didnt have to carry around a fast and slow court game and switch between them (this also applies to the top 4 and why we're in such a stable period)...which over the years has been nigh on impossible to do when players had to pin their game to one speed mast or the other.

He's doing remarkably well to stay at the top as he's doing and his run postUSO is amazing. But it's not translating into slams over the pat 2 years...however I know what you mean, he gives hope it can happen even though the head thinks its not happened since AO10 and the chances dwindle with passing months...but given this great form plateau lets not write off his slam chances until postUSO.

I personally hope he gets his 'Sampras moment' slam wise to bow out at the top. Unlike Pete who was losing more and more before USO2002 I'd rather not see Fed slide down to #15...his play of late shows that won't happen for a time (even Agassi was #7 at end of 2005 at 35 yo) but the major titles will completely disappear over time. The question will always be for Federer himself...when will be the right time for me to go? Do I play as long as I enjoy it, or protect my legacy and leave on a high given the right (slam) opportunity? If he chooses the former he may become hard to watch for different reasons.

Well you have to understand Fed has done better than anybody in the history has done, he is no GOD and bounds to lose some matches.

What I like in him is his ability to fight when things don't go well like today.

Yea on his prime I like his opponents to play their best, coz I know they will still come short but when the opponents raise the level Fed raise his level and thats stunning to watch, no longer thats the case, now you have to pray the Opponents make some mistakes and level come down too like again today.

Johnny Mac once said to beat Fed you have to play the best and hope Fed has an off day at the office, more or less similar comments passed by Andre, he said to he had a chance to beat Pete when he played his best, but even at his best he hope Fed has an off day for him to win.

For all those Fed fans wait and watch the glory unfold when he lift the Roland Garros Cup beating Djokovic enroute.

Lydian, I wouldn't be disappointed if he played to 35 or so because by then everything would be a plus, and he'd only play if he enjoyed it, and he'd only enjoy it if he was still, now and again, able to roll the years back.

If they speed the courts up a touch we may get more than we might expect. Certainly he has good chances to add to the 6 year end cups.

Aye BB...he'll be a danger on fast courts for years. I think there is good reason to hope will get sped up abit if we see some more slam slugfests outside clay. Sky/Petchy talk about it a lot and the tennis media discusses it regularly. The daft thing is that it would actually extend players careers.

I still think he won't go on into 2014.

Funnily enough I found today bearable because once the hope started it was (almost) one-way traffic.

barrystar wrote:Funnily enough I found today bearable because once the hope started it was (almost) one-way traffic.

Believe it tougher the matches greater his prospect of winning a slam, you should thank DP for waking Fed up, Now Nole will be fed up of Fed being up .

Very well written post Bogbrush. I could not have stated it better myself. To see the struggles that Roger has today is all the more painful, because I have seen him play in full flow. His play at Wimbledon, in particular, was just otherworldly. I really felt as if he too the game to another level, and played with such fluidity and precision, that he truly embodied the image of the "The Federer Express."

His dominance of the game was so unbelievable, that the inevitable "weak era" rumbles came to the surface. In a way, I can understand. Such was the nature of his dominance, that it had to be that the rest of the field were inept. What many of Federer's detractors do not realize is that Roger made the rest of the field seem inept, much in the way that my compatriot Brian Lara was able to dispatch a good length ball to the boundary with utter disdain.

Rafael Nadal has fulfilled the role of Professor Moriarty, the ideal polar opposite to Roger's SherlockHolmes. Where Roger exudes a balletic poise, Rafa snarls and grunts and imposes his physical will. His mind-boggling athleticism, monstrous forehand and cross-court passing shot has frustrated and bedevilled Roger, especially on the quintessential grinder's terrain that is clay. The lopsided head to head between the two is testament to this fact. That it takes someone with the immense defensive skills of Nadal or Djokovic to usurp Federer is testament to his greatness. However, it is interesting that their exertions in the first half of the year have left them the worse for the wear in the second half of the year. Roger, at his zenith, ruled the tour with consummate ease, dazzling with his scintillating brand of tennis in continent after continent all year long. The duration of the tour was of little consequence, such was the superior nature of his conditioning. Now that the years have progressed, the slightest loss of a step has been ruthlessly exposed by the Leviathans such as Nadal and Djokovic.

So yes Bogbrush, I agree, his tennis mortality is a source of consternation and anxiety for legions of his tennis fans, and a source of bemusement and smug satisfaction for his detractors. I do not know what I will do when he retires from the tour. Rafael Nadal is a brilliant player, but his rampaging style is an assault on my senses and I find it difficult to warm to his style of play, although there certainly is a place for it. Novak Djokovic is like a wall in the back of the court and his ability to match Nadal shot for shot, makes for an interesting spectacle; however, it does not satisfy my yearning for the purity that is attacking tennis

I may truly need to seek professional counselling when Roger decides to call it a day.

banbrotam wrote:

mangamuri wrote:Being a Federer fan I can relate to most of your post. Especially I always think about that US open loss to Del Po which would have given him 4 slams in a row. Well it was not to be.

He just kept feeding the Del Po forehand like raw steaks to a lion.
Painful.

Great Post! But if we are getting classical mythological, let´s be clear on this:
Eros shot us with his arrow, and we have been giddy
and in love every since we first set eyes on his game.
And that longing, and love is a fire of desire that we are tormented by and
that we can never be released from. I am sure Plato would have a lot to say about this.
We know we will never feel the same about the game
since those first days when he emerged on the scene,
and we fear his departure like a husband, married for forty years,
sees the love of his life dieing, and knows he will have to face up to life alone
after the event.

S***, to be 21 again and playing Sampras at Wimbledon!

watch?v=g38TLDUaj5U&list=PL3C229FE352788219&index=8&feature=plpp_video

Well done BB, this post sums up my feelings too. It is the hope that keeps many of us Fed fans keen to see more from him, even @ RG, when we probably acknowledge, his chances are slim when Djokovic and Nadal may stand in his way in consecutive matches. It is impressive he was able to dig out the win today, I, probably like other Fed fans who post here, were probably disheartened by others when they suggested an early exit for Fed was coming up in a slam. Perhaps because it will eventually happen but also because I don't want to believe it. However, if he is to lose early in a slam, it might as well be @ RG but thankfully it's not happening just yet.

That lose to Delpo in 2009 was painful and unfortunate, after all, if he had kept his cool better, as he so often does, he could have eeked out the win. It still wouldn't be enough to convince some that he's the best although because Djokovic has done such a good job of beating Nadal, that claim can't be made for Nadal so easily either so there's less to disagree on. It's probably that Wimbledon loss in '08 which would have established him as the best if he had won. However the fact he bounced back from that crushing loss and won another 4 slams says a lot.

Trying to take the positive out of Fed's recent run and his success so far @ RG, he has done an excellent job of defending his points and losing in the semis wont dent him badly if, as I'm sure many of us think, he can get to the semis @ Wimbledon. Hopefully he won't dash all our hopes like he has in the last 2 years and then we will have something to really look forward to! It is strange that Fed got to the final @ RG last year but when it came to Wimbledon, he fell short, so by no means does Fed falling in the semis @ RG suggest he won't do better @ Wimbledon. If anything, he stands a good chance @ Wimbledon of making the semis or the final (depending on the draw).

Love this post, great stuff. The amazing thing is his ridiculous talent is perhaps keeping him at the top too long. If you look at his generation, Moya, Roddick, Hewitt, Safin, Nalbandian, Ferrero etc have deteriorated badly or have already retired now, if he has dropped off the equivalent of what they have, it just goes to show what planet he was on during his peak years! That their drop takes them down to the 40s and 50s and his drop takes him to close defeats to the World Number 1 and 2

Very nice post, BB.

Let this not turn into an obit for the 'old man'.

I..am..the..emancipator

Throughout the ages I have fought the evil creature BOO who lurks in every shadow...

oops.. wrong thread



emancipator

Like lydian I have never been a fan of the man.. but his tennis is unquestionably unmatched .. and I say that as a die hard Rafa fan.
But I suppose all of us "outside" his multitude of followers could see that one day they would recognise he doesn´t walk on water (and never has) it only appeared that he did. Often too I pondered what his fan base will do when the great man hangs up his racket.. like when you have finished a page-turning book you cannot find another to follow it.

I and my fellow fans of Rafa will have the same problem.. I went into hibernation after Borg retired until I could find another "hook to hang my hat on".
I feel for you BB you have now realised that superman is human and he has human frailities like the rest of us. Like finding there is no Santa Clause .. just appreciate him now for what he is dont keep looking back.

BB,

An inspired piece of emotion. Something I would never normally associate with yourself, but none the less a very good read.

I find with Federer he is very much like a well tuned Orchestra. When on song, it is beautiful and each note is hit with the touch of angel. He has never been a scruffy player. For those that never watched tennis or understand it for that matter can quite identify with Federer that what they are seeing is sublime and magic. You just have to watch. Those early years of domination from 2004-2007, even when players playing him were trying so hard to cram in about 3 sets worth of tennis into one just to take set.

Back to the Orchestra comparison. The FH was like the sound of crashing drums, the BH like timeless quality of strings and the serve and volley like the wind. With a Sampras, Connors and Agassi were limited. I guess Roger played without limits. Sampras was like a car. Eventually he would find 5th gear and there wasn't much beyond it. The speed would only decrease. With Federer once he hit top level, his play could spread about.

The reason he is frustrating is because over time he will hit a bum note and nowadays those bum notes are more prominent and consistent. See I never bought into the whole 'lungs' beat him rubbish. Nadal was the first to challenge and more or less present the connundrum that was 'Ok you can hit 3-4 tasty FH's or BH's in a rally, let's see you hit 4-5 instead' consistency.

Roger's tennis has always been about precision. I guess the frustration is how has he not been able to negate the threat of your Nadals and Djokovics. Sampras got out just when conditions were about to kill his game off. Borg got out just as the tide of toughness was turning. I wouldn't have blamed Roger if he retired early.

Roger has adapted his game to a more S&V style to shorten points against those that can he back those once thunderbolts he had.

It is one thing to win with style and another to lose in despair. I think those that enjoyed Roger winning do not enjoy when he loses even if he does put in a good performance and still lose.

Tropicalfruiter wrote:
S***, to be 21 again and playing Sampras at Wimbledon!

watch?v=g38TLDUaj5U&list=PL3C229FE352788219&index=8&feature=plpp_video

TF... Is it all right to replace your broken video link with this one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQIfymP-a4I

Fraid I'm now almost too anxious to watch Fed matches live. I put them on tape and watch them afterwards - but only if he's won.
Was really glad ITV4 was showing the epic Djoko-JWT match yesterday, as news was coming through of what looked like being a thumping of Rog by del Potty. Thankfully, all ended well.

I also find him hard to watch at times, mostly against Nadal. Hs game is brittle,prone to decline or implode. A little more steel and a few less unforced errors and few more break points converted and he would be GOAT instead of just the best of his era.

Just be thankful for what he's already achieved though.

I think in 2008 it was the hardest to watch him and maybe through a lot of 2009. Perhaps this was because this was when the cracks really started to impact his results. His game is such that he walks a fine line between genius and mediocrity which is what makes it so amazing and unique but as you say hard to watch now. As a fan though I'm always expecting him to start playing properly and scale the heights once again when he finds whatever it is he lost.

Henman Bill wrote:I also find him hard to watch at times, mostly against Nadal. Hs game is brittle,prone to decline or implode. A little more steel and a few less unforced errors and few more break points converted and he would be GOAT instead of just the best of his era.

Just be thankful for what he's already achieved though.

I can't remember a player of the past who can argue with GOAT status. Maybe Borg, but nothing else.

I put Federer ahead of Borg as Borg never won the US Open and also because Federer was toppled by Nadal in the same way Borg was toppled by Mcenroe (consecutive defeats on grass then hard at slams). Borg quit but Fed battled on, regained #1 and continues to play at a high level delighting fans today.

Henman Bill wrote:I put Federer ahead of Borg as Borg never won the US Open and also because Federer was toppled by Nadal in the same way Borg was toppled by Mcenroe (consecutive defeats on grass then hard at slams). Borg quit but Fed battled on, regained #1 and continues to play at a high level delighting fans today.

Indeed. So who else contests best-ever in your opinion?

There isn't anyone I would put ahead of Federer, but there are some that are on a par, or at least hard to definately argue as clearly behind.

Laver, Tilden and Gonzales. Maybe Rosewall.

Henman Bill wrote:There isn't anyone I would put ahead of Federer, but there are some that are on a par, or at least hard to definately argue as clearly behind.

Laver, Tilden and Gonzales. Maybe Rosewall.

Hard to compare, that's a different sport IMHO. What we do know is that Federer has surpassed their achievements but surely we can only really discuss Open era?

In the open era, Federer has achieved the most I think. FO 09 sealed it.

Its when his backhand completely goes is when I find it hard to watch, it just looks weak and pointless.

I love Fed, and regardless of whether his GS is overtaken, he is the greatest player of all time.

I tell you what, a clay swing of winning one Masters, getting to another semi-final, and at worst a semi-final at the French is pretty good! That's a minimum of 2,320 points off his worst surface and he sneaked a really long break in.

Damn him!! He's doing that thing where he won't go away again!!!

His 'final', the match that will define how good this clay court season has been will be on Friday against Djokovic.
Federer will have his chances, he must take them.

It Must Be Love wrote:His 'final', the match that will define how good this clay court season has been will be on Friday against Djokovic.
Federer will have his chances, he must take them.

Djokovic has struggled against Seppi and Tsonga. Federer had his travails against Del Potro. Both are still standing. It should be a good match.

Indeed LF, indeed

its quite incredible that in 08 he seemed to be in decline, 4 years on he's still up there fighting for slams, it defies logic really

46 unforced errors is simply not going to get the job done. The most infuriating thing about Friday is the two-break lead that Roger relinquished in the second set. That angered me to the point that I had to refrain from posting or I would have gotten in trouble with the mods for using profanities.

As one who is used to perfection from the great man, it was annoying to watch.

it does show how much conditions change the game though, I remember watching Dubai feeling he wouldn't get broken, same as Madrid for the most parts. However on other surfaces, Im willing him to hold each game and it always feels like a struggle.

This is one of the best articles that I have ever come across in this forum.

I suffer the same agony watching Fed's matches in majors these days.

However, as the 'moderator' commented, let's not run an obit yet. The Swiss watch is not precise anymore; it's timing is off, but it is still precious.

Well, no let up for Fed fans who must hang on to their hats for Wimbledon as this is probably the key to Rog's season. He's the only one of the top four not to have some serious points to defend and his matches will be tense.
Still can't get over his defeat to Tsonga last year after being two sets up. Berdych the year before was bad enough.
Let's face it, Fed's fans are gonna have to go through agonies until he packs it in and then....we're all gonna miss him.

I thought this might be appropriately bumped.

He's done that "hope" thing again, hasn't he?

This is more than just hope BB...he's the favourite today!

#1 ranking...#7 titles...#17 slams...#286 weeks

lydian wrote:This is more than just hope BB...he's the favourite today!

#1 ranking...#7 titles...#17 slams...#286 weeks

Arghhhhh! Stop!!

I actually think this is very close, honestly.

Lol...has there even been such a pivotal turn of events based on the one match as today....even more so that the FO last month.

It is pretty close but I still have Rodge as the fave,

Federer knew he had that win as soon as he took the 1st and even after he lost the 2nd, for some unknown reason Federer is able to switch from crap (which he was in the French) to a don in the space of weeks. Federer is only a very slight favourite in this final now, Murray's returning in his last 2 matches dealing with Tsonga like he did proves he's getting close to top form. This final will be more difficult for Federer than his semi final.