Ireland were well beaten

I'm sure you can translate.

Clearly the NH has not caught/catching up with the SH.

Any NH side would have lost by 40 to that NZ side today. They were class. What is frightening is how gutted they look when they concede just one try. The could win 107-5 and still be devastated by that one score against.

It is their counter attack and drawing in the defender that simply cannot be replicated up north.


Edit by RD: if you change the title back to something offensive again, expect further action to be taken.

not keen on the title of this thread but yes NZ were a class apart today and afterwards Mccaw was disappointed with aspects of the performance. Dagg looked pretty awesome finding gaps. great rugby. unlucky Ireland

mate, amend your title of eh, else I shall do it for you


NZ were very good today.

OK sorry! Will change it now.

welliamwibb wrote:I'm sure you can translate.

Clearly the NH has not caught/catching up with the SH.

Any NH side would have lost by 40 to that NZ side today. They were class. What is frightening is how gutted they look when they concede just one try. The could win 107-5 and still be devastated by that one score against.

It is their counter attack and drawing in the defender that simply cannot be replicated up north.

The All Blacks are the best side in the world? Is that what you're trying to say? Just say it - we'll all agree You're happy and a little grace would be a nice topping for a dessert like that.

amended it for you welliam, not sure you got why I asked for it to be changed in the first place...

mckay1402 wrote:not keen on the title of this thread but yes NZ were a class apart today and afterwards Mccaw was disappointed with aspects of the performance. Dagg looked pretty awesome finding gaps. great rugby. unlucky Ireland

Ireland were many things tonight but 'unlucky' wasn't one of them. They were simply playing against the best side in the world (on evidence and because they have a cup which says so) PLUS they (Ireland) were ...quite bad. A continuing trait that has already began in Europe and wasn't exactly going to be improved on in New Zealand.

We were hammered.... nothing else to see here.....

Entirely predictable result, Ireland were totally outplayed and will lose by even more in the next two.

SecretFly wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:not keen on the title of this thread but yes NZ were a class apart today and afterwards Mccaw was disappointed with aspects of the performance. Dagg looked pretty awesome finding gaps. great rugby. unlucky Ireland

Ireland were many things tonight but 'unlucky' wasn't one of them. They were simply playing against the best side in the world (on evidence and because they have a cup which says so) PLUS they (Ireland) were ...quite bad. A continuing trait that has already began in Europe and wasn't exactly going to be improved on in New Zealand.

I meant unlucky for coming up against such a good new zealand side.

I don't know if Ireland was really that bad. They just looked slow and not capable of playing at that speed. Those little gaps that would have been there vs a team of their own speed just turned into gapping holes.

I do think Ireland looked that bad. I thought the england game was maybe just a bad day at the office but on the evidence of this display the greens have lost their way.
Wales Oz will be a much better indication of the north south gap.......I was a little shocked by just bad ireland were....puts our display in the 6n's against them into perspective.
NZ were good....but everyone on here knew that already. Just don't think there's a single irish player who could get on the NZ 2nd teams subs bench right now

ultra wrote:I do think Ireland looked that bad. I thought the england game was maybe just a bad day at the office but on the evidence of this display the greens have lost their way.
Wales Oz will be a much better indication of the north south gap.......I was a little shocked by just bad ireland were....puts our display in the 6n's against them into perspective.
NZ were good....but everyone on here knew that already. Just don't think there's a single irish player who could get on the NZ 2nd teams subs bench right now

yup.... what we are seeing today (again) is that the 6N is a mediocre tournament, full of mediocre teams, playing mediocre rugby and Ireland aren't even at the races in that competition let alone against the SH.

rodders wrote:

ultra wrote:I do think Ireland looked that bad. I thought the england game was maybe just a bad day at the office but on the evidence of this display the greens have lost their way.
Wales Oz will be a much better indication of the north south gap.......I was a little shocked by just bad ireland were....puts our display in the 6n's against them into perspective.
NZ were good....but everyone on here knew that already. Just don't think there's a single irish player who could get on the NZ 2nd teams subs bench right now

yup.... what we are seeing today (again) is that the 6N is a mediocre tournament, full of mediocre teams, playing mediocre rugby and Ireland aren't even at the races in that competition let alone against the SH.

Would you say that we might need a change in coaching?

I would say that would be a good place to start.... but the IRFU have wasted a generation of talent.. focusing on extending aging players careers .. on this evidence it will be years before we are challenging the top sides again....

we desperately need new coaches because tactically we are all over the place but honestly I don't think are players are good enough in too many key positions, especially the 3/4s ...

McFadden is mediocre at best, Murray isn't good enough ... Earls and Trimble are good players at club level but too limited against the best sides, Cave is too slow, D'arcy and BOD are too old... the list goes on....

Kearney, Sexton and Bowe aside we don't have any top class backs if we are brutally honest.

It's time to clear out the dead wood and put faith in the likes of Madigan, Zebo, Gilroy, Kearney jr, O'Malley, Spence etc. and hope some of them can make the step up in time for the next RWC...right now we are just papering over the cracks.

AllBlacks had a rusty start,Ireland let them settle by some pretty aimless kicking.Got better as they went along BOTH sides will get much better.Happy as a start could do better!!!

If the All Blacks hadn't so many handling errors it could have been a record score. Now they have that out of their system the ABs could achieve that next week.

Ireland aren't going to win a Test so maybe they should concentrate on preventing a record thumping?

We should get madigan gilroy kearney jr to come over for the next tests sure we arent gonna win so we have nothing to lose and everything to gain from bringing the young guns over

We can be good at times but when we're bad we're bloody awfull. I still believe we have a pretty good team... something needs to be changed, and I think its Kidney!

rodders wrote:I would say that would be a good place to start.... but the IRFU have wasted a generation of talent.. focusing on extending aging players careers .. on this evidence it will be years before we are challenging the top sidesed new coaches because tactically we are all over the place but honestly I don't think are players are good enough in too many key positions, especially the 3/4s ...

McFadden is mediocre at best, Murray isn't good enough ... Earls and Trimble are good players at club level but too limited against the best sides, Cave is too slow, D'arcy and BOD are too old... the list goes on....

Kearney, Sexton and Bowe aside we don't have any top class backs if we are brutally honest.

It's time to clear out the dead wood and put faith in the likes of Madigan, Zebo, Gilroy, Kearney jr, O'Malley, Spence etc. and hope some of them can make the step up in time for the next RWC...right now we are just papering over the cracks.

This....exactly this.....haven't heard it put better anywhere else.

Stephen Ireland's wig! wrote:We can be good at times but when we're bad we're bloody awfull. I still believe we have a pretty good team... something needs to be changed, and I think its Kidney!

BOD is a passenger to the team now is my mind. He is a great player from history but now lacking the edge. Time to move over and let in the next generate.

welliamwibb wrote:I'm sure you can translate.

Clearly the NH has not caught/catching up with the SH.

Any NH side would have lost by 40 to that NZ side today. They were class. What is frightening is how gutted they look when they concede just one try. The could win 107-5 and still be devastated by that one score against.

It is their counter attack and drawing in the defender that simply cannot be replicated up north.

ireland finished 4th in the 6n's and lost by 32, so if i was you i would maybe use some logic

however i do agree they would beat us all(incluide SA and aus as well tho)

The rest of the world needs to catch up, not just the NH.

Yup, let's all judge the entire world of Irish rugby, the quality of the 6n's, the difference between N/S hemisphere rugby, every players ability on this one game, that would seem reasonable...

mystiroakey wrote:ireland finished 4th in the 6n's

Ireland finished 3rd.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

Stephen Ireland's wig! wrote:We can be good at times but when we're bad we're bloody awfull. I still believe we have a pretty good team... something needs to be changed, and I think its Kidney!

BOD is a passenger to the team now is my mind. He is a great player from history but now lacking the edge. Time to move over and let in the next generate.

I disagree, I think BOD still has ability... he was poor today but he still had that little burst of pace and always seems to get his arms free for an offload. Id like to see him and Earls given more time together.

rugbydreamer wrote:mate, amend your title of eh, else I shall do it for you


NZ were very good today.

What was his title? just out of curiousity.

The Great Aukster wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:ireland finished 4th in the 6n's

Ireland finished 3rd.

We all knew Ireland were going to get creamed, lets be honest. their heads are down at the moment, they were poor in the 6 Nations and in the World Cup. We can't suddenly expect them to burst into life in New Zealand!

Truth be told I think they should be happy with that score line, New Zealand are capable of hammering much bigger wins out than that. I'm just glad Wales aren't there!

What does obliterated beyond belief even mean?

Gloating much.

OP is a WUM don't worry about it.

Ireland played quite good and won in the breakdown in all black "weak" arena.

The one on one tackles was not so good and leak a lot of points and Dan Carter make very good accurate kicking.

all balcks are a good team but ireland can focus and compose and compete better next time.

Bit worry about Ireland front row option now. Can some expert comment on the possible combinators for the scrum?

rodders wrote:I would say that would be a good place to start.... but the IRFU have wasted a generation of talent.. focusing on extending aging players careers .. on this evidence it will be years before we are challenging the top sides again....

we desperately need new coaches because tactically we are all over the place but honestly I don't think are players are good enough in too many key positions, especially the 3/4s ...

McFadden is mediocre at best, Murray isn't good enough ... Earls and Trimble are good players at club level but too limited against the best sides, Cave is too slow, D'arcy and BOD are too old... the list goes on....

Kearney, Sexton and Bowe aside we don't have any top class backs if we are brutally honest.

It's time to clear out the dead wood and put faith in the likes of Madigan, Zebo, Gilroy, Kearney jr, O'Malley, Spence etc. and hope some of them can make the step up in time for the next RWC...right now we are just papering over the cracks.

You contradict yourself in this post. You claim that most of the new talent are not up to it, but yet criticise the IRFU for prolonging the careers of those elderly statemens who were

I agree it's a sad but true fact, that the best scrumaging Irish tight head prop is in the Welsh Under 20 team!

Fitzpatrick was very good today, one of the few standouts, needs to work on his fitness. Jones had those problems early in his career too.

rodders wrote:I would say that would be a good place to start.... but the IRFU have wasted a generation of talent.. focusing on extending aging players careers .. on this evidence it will be years before we are challenging the top sides again....

we desperately need new coaches because tactically we are all over the place but honestly I don't think are players are good enough in too many key positions, especially the 3/4s ...

McFadden is mediocre at best, Murray isn't good enough ... Earls and Trimble are good players at club level but too limited against the best sides, Cave is too slow, D'arcy and BOD are too old... the list goes on....

Kearney, Sexton and Bowe aside we don't have any top class backs if we are brutally honest.

It's time to clear out the dead wood and put faith in the likes of Madigan, Zebo, Gilroy, Kearney jr, O'Malley, Spence etc. and hope some of them can make the step up in time for the next RWC...right now we are just papering over the cracks.

BOD is a class act still, his offload game is superb and he can produce moments of magic perhaps he isn't at his best but he still has a great chance of making the lions team. Ireland are probably suffering something similar to what England suffered between 2004 and 2010 now; between 1998 and 2004 the England side barely changed and they were dominant and very good because of this very few, new young players came through, the ones that did were very good but that meant England had a generation of players who had to live up to their predecessors without any international experience; that's another area where we are behind NZ in the Northern Hemisphere they are constantly bringing players in and out of the side seamlessly.

Thomond wrote:Fitzpatrick was very good today, one of the few standouts, needs to work on his fitness. Jones had those problems early in his career too.

Yes he was. I saw somewhere though that he has only played something like 35 games for Ulster which suggests he must be very injury prone or something.

123456789 wrote:

rodders wrote:I would say that would be a good place to start.... but the IRFU have wasted a generation of talent.. focusing on extending aging players careers .. on this evidence it will be years before we are challenging the top sides again....

we desperately need new coaches because tactically we are all over the place but honestly I don't think are players are good enough in too many key positions, especially the 3/4s ...

McFadden is mediocre at best, Murray isn't good enough ... Earls and Trimble are good players at club level but too limited against the best sides, Cave is too slow, D'arcy and BOD are too old... the list goes on....

Kearney, Sexton and Bowe aside we don't have any top class backs if we are brutally honest.

It's time to clear out the dead wood and put faith in the likes of Madigan, Zebo, Gilroy, Kearney jr, O'Malley, Spence etc. and hope some of them can make the step up in time for the next RWC...right now we are just papering over the cracks.

BOD is a class act still, his offload game is superb and he can produce moments of magic perhaps he isn't at his best but he still has a great chance of making the lions team. Ireland are probably suffering something similar to what England suffered between 2004 and 2010 now; between 1998 and 2004 the England side barely changed and they were dominant and very good because of this very few, new young players came through, the ones that did were very good but that meant England had a generation of players who had to live up to their predecessors without any international experience; that's another area where we are behind NZ in the Northern Hemisphere they are constantly bringing players in and out of the side seamlessly.

BOD is a class act, but he was poor today. Without being too criticial of Ireland (the ABs are on a different planet to us), some Ireland players needed to have big games and they didn't.

I've always seen it in three categories rather than just two. Bottom of the pile is the NH. Then comes the SH. And at the top of the ladder is NZ

It's still a norm for NZ to put 30-40 points on most NH sides like it or not. Their junior side only suffered its first ever World Cup loss yesterday. Rugby development towards the senior side is arguably better in NZ than it is anywhere else. And they're current world champs having been far and away the number one side on the planet between WC's for the last decade or so.

Add to that that Ireland weren't at full strength and I'd hardly call that defeat "obliterated beyond belief". Logically it was well within the bracket of belief, it is for most sides

Zebo was a waste of space though.

He wasn't great, he was okay going forward but was expsed at times due to his positioning. He will learn from it though. Not many have a debut like Savea

Can't understand the criticism of Zebo...I thought he had a good game, yes the cover defence was poor at times but he looked dangerous in attack.

Is the first cap really that decisive? Give Zebo time and wait till he's shown what he can do beyond having a less than spectacular debut against the toughest opponents out there - at the game's most unbreachable fortress no less.

rodders wrote:Can't understand the criticism of Zebo...I thought he had a good game, yes the cover defence was poor at times but he looked dangerous in attack.

I can't either - all the tries went in on the other side of the pitch. I'm amazed he wasn't targetted more in fact.

He could have been positioned better at times, but I think he is gettign too much criticism

Yeah Zebo was okay,not perfect but he's young and will learn.They did try a few kicks to Zebo early on but he dealt with them well and once McFaddens channel was shown up they just exploited it mercilessly.

Ireland were obliterated beyond belief... Fair. I'm sure they knew that before you wrote this though, so I don't see the point of this article. The NZ backline were immaculate.

Zebo was poor in defence but we knew that before he was selected. He needs to be backed for the three tests now if this tour is going to help him.

OTOH McFadden showed he has neither the pace nor the inclination to be a Test winger.

Kidney prob regretting that he didnt bring gilroy or kearney jr...these a very dark days for irish rugby

The Great Aukster wrote:OTOH McFadden showed he has neither the pace nor the inclination to be a Test winger.

Thats the last straw for me with McFadden. Every time I see him play at either wing or outside centre, for Leinster and Ireland he is at fault directly for at least one try... I could roll off 5 or 6 examples of the top of my head not including the 3 today - Williams 2 in the Rabo final, Scotland last summer, the USA in the RWC, against the Blues in the Rabo this year, against Wales in the 6N..... the list goes on.

He simply cannot defend....it's a pity because he has some decent attributes, speed, strength, decent footballer but for me he is not a test standard player and I don't think he ever will be.

Zebo wasn't that bad in defence. All of our young wingers have flaws, I don't think either one would have made much of a difference today.

Zebo done ok today, got hardly any ball but that wasnt his fault.

I think Kearney is a poor tackler. His effort on Savea for one of his tries was patheric. McFadden isnt a winger, play him at 12 or on the bench.