Ulster squad additions

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clivemcl wrote:I guess its not so much that we cant have an NIQ 10, its more that we can only have 1 NIQ halfback. Would that not be right? If we didnt have Pienaar, i suspect we might be allowed an NIQ 10.

Bingo. I suspect.

Looking at from the IRFUs perspective- we have an NIQ 9, a specialist position that Ireland are weak in and an NIQ 3, again a specialist position that Ireland are very weak in. That's our fill. I completely and totally agree with the policy we are not allowed to sign an NIQ 10 when we already have two players in key specialist positions and O'Gara is pushing 35.

I can't help but feel that our Heineken Cup run has left some of us as fans thinking we want to get another Cup run the easy way by signing in more top players at the expense of having to develop talent. I'm tempted to think that myself when I see how ineptly the national team is being managed. Give us provincial squads with no NIQs whatsoever and we still wouldn't win a damn thing at international level right now, for a variety of reasons. But the issue of who can be signed and where is bigger than Ulster.

In reality we are going to have to win our next Heineken Cup the harder way by developing young homegrown players into winners and working with the NIQ players we have (and potentially replacing them when they move on). Thats still a lot of latitude to have guys like Muller, Pienaar and Afoa bnringing up the standard of Ulster Rugby- and being funded by the IRFU.

Rava wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

Notch wrote:Scotty, Shane Logan said the other week at the URSC AGM that the IRFU will not let us sign an NIQ 10. Seems like there is no NIQ 10 spot, at least not for us, despite their much vaunted new rules. The whole process on who can and can't be signed is as clear as mud. But, according to our CEO, we were always going to have to have Irish qualified 10s.

Clear as mud indeed Notch and as fair as a kangaroo court. Paddy Jackson will have Pienaar and Wallace to mentor him but a quality 10 would have brought his game on even more and taken a lot of pressure off him. I hope he can shrug off said pressure and show us all he's the real deal and get the feeling he just might. It's just the risk that I fear but maybe that's just me setting my hopes too high for Ulster's next season after seeing them reach the final of the HC. We can only wait and see I guess, it's going to be an exciting season that's for sure.

That is something we have all tended to do. I think we overachieved this year in the HC and our final league placing was just about right. Next season I would like a top four league position with hopefully a home semi-final. I'll wait until after tomorrows draw before deciding what we can expect in the HC.

If we get out of our HC group and a Pro12 semi-final I'll be more than happy Rava. To be honest even the league semi would be pleasing enough, anything from the HC is just a big old bonus.

I wonder what John Afoa, Stephen Ferris, Tommy Bowe, Johan Muller, Rory Best, Andrew Trimble, Jarod Payne, Roger Wilson and Ruan Pienaar etcs expectations are next season?

Rabo SF
HEC SF via a home QF at a minimum.

Anything else will be a disappointing season based on the resources we have available.

For me, and I've always said it, the league is a better indication of a clubs success. The HEC is an indicator of 1st XV success and luck with injuries.

I'd be over the moon to be in the top 3 at the end of the league season. i look back on last season and despite a HEC final, I am still really annoyed about or poor autumn form.

I don't want 4 losses on the trot ever again at Ulster Rugby regardless of HEC success.

Those guys want to win trophies rodders. Nothing more, nothing less. That should be our hope as well.

I agree with your targets. Though it's hard to call with our squad. It's epitomised by our halfbacks. The world class Pienaar and the greenhorn Jackson. We have genuine title winning class and unproven inexperience juxtaposed throughout the squad.

Our first XV is classy enough to cause anyone problems in the HC, we could have the beating of almost any side in Europe. The question is how we will do in the Pro12 because our strength in depth isn't quite there... but I think it will be much better than last year in truth. Also, no RWC at the start of the season. That feiced us up big time in the Pro12 unfortunately. Not an excuse, we just fell apart without the experienced guys there.

The league is secondary for me Notch, ideally I want to be aiming for a top 4 finish but as with last season I'd be prepared to sacrifice that to get to the latter stages in the Heino.

I hope though with a stronger start to the league that it won't come to that this season and we'll have plenty of points on the board come January.

In the Rabo I want to see more of Spence, Marshall * 2, Henderson, Birch...these guys need to be developed and they are good enough to win games if we utilise them right I believe.

In the Heino the big guns are more than good enough to navigate us to the KO stages, regardless of who we get in our group....jeebus it can't be a much tougher pool than last season...

After that we can reassess based on the draw but we really should be aiming to top our Heino group and securing a QF at a minimum, preferably a home QF.

I'm just excited at the prospect of seeing Payne back in action.
He was stunning for the Blues in his last season there and was a stand out player in whatever position he played in. Afoa was stand out all season at tight head. Tommy Bowe's return is just one big cherry on top for me and with such a classy backline of Wallace, Cave, Bowe, Trimble and Payne I'd expect a lot with Pienaar steering the ship and Jackson as first mate.
We may still lack the depth to challenge on both fronts although I cannot imagine us having such a bad run of Pro12 results as we did last season.

Rodders:

Toulouse
Ulster
Ospreys
Montpellier

That would be a VERY tough pool for Ulster.

I can't agree with that Rodders. I understand being more excited/dissappointed by one over the other, but I wouldnt agree with prioritising one over the other (unless it was at the end of the season around semi-final time).

Success means being a team who wins. A team who is hard to beat. Anyone looking at a team in a HEC final but half way down their league table will assume they got lucky.

If we are a good enough team we will be winning games from September through to May regardless of the competitions those games belong to.

If we get lucky with injuries again and our 1st XV takes us to a HEC final and wins, amongst the crazy celebrations, in the back of my mind a part of me will be thinking "we bought that HEC with big name signings".

If we stay consistant throughout the league season and finish top 3 whilst rotating our squad with Jackson, Gilroy, Spence, Henderson, Birch playing their part. I will personally take more pride in that.

red_stag wrote:Rodders:

Toulouse
Ulster
Ospreys
Montpellier

That would be a VERY tough pool for Ulster.

It would. Thats why you play in the Heino though, to play the top teams, theres no hiding place.

I wouldn't fear any of those teams stag and would relish that draw.

red_stag wrote:Rodders:

Toulouse
Ulster
Ospreys
Montpellier

That would be a VERY tough pool for Ulster.

Exceptionally tough. There wouldn't be any shame in losing out in that one, though we'd still be aiming to win the group to be honest (why wouldn't we believe in ourselves after getting past Leicester and Clermont last year?) but it would be very tough.

rodders wrote:

red_stag wrote:Rodders:

Toulouse
Ulster
Ospreys
Montpellier

That would be a VERY tough pool for Ulster.

It would. Thats why you play in the Heino though, to play the top teams, theres no hiding place.

I wouldn't fear any of those teams stag and would relish that draw.

I too would relish that draw, as Rodders said there is never an easy draw in the Heino. The tougher the group the more prepared you are for the knockout stages. Bring it on!!!!

I would also love to have three massive games like that at Ravenhill covered by my season ticket. As a fan you live for the days like that; having Aironi the past two seasons wass a big advantage and I'm grateful for our luck in getting rhem two years in a row. But you do feel short changed because the atmosphere at those games is terrible and the rugby not much better.

So having three genuinely colossal battles at Ravenhill would be something I'd relish with our home record.

clivemcl wrote:I can't agree with that Rodders. I understand being more excited/dissappointed by one over the other, but I wouldnt agree with prioritising one over the other (unless it was at the end of the season around semi-final time).

Of course we have to prioritise one over the other. We have limits on the no of games the Irish internationals can play imposed by the IRFU.

Are you seriously suggesting that we should rest guys like Bowe, Best, Ferris, Trimble in the Heino vs the Rabo?

I want to do well in the Rabo too but the HEC is the prority.

Fair play lads. Thats the attitude.

rodders wrote:

clivemcl wrote:I can't agree with that Rodders. I understand being more excited/dissappointed by one over the other, but I wouldnt agree with prioritising one over the other (unless it was at the end of the season around semi-final time).

Of course we have to prioritise one over the other. We have limits on the no of games the Irish internationals can play imposed by the IRFU.

Are you seriously suggesting that we should rest guys like Bowe, Best, Ferris, Trimble in the Heino vs the Rabo?

I want to do well in the Rabo too but the HEC is the prority.

Rodders, you need to read my posts better mate! In particular the second half. I want our squad to do well in the rabo rather than our 1st xv to do well in the HEC because I dont want to be a team that bought success.

I don't think we've bought success any more than any other team in the Heino or Pro12. All the teams buy in squad members, can we be continuously flogged because we've bought quality players who have bought into the shirt and not just the bank account?

Probably, especially by the likes of Hugh Farrelly.....spit spit

red_stag wrote:Fair play lads. Thats the attitude.

Feic no! I'll have Cardiff, Glasgow and the new Italian team in the striped pyjamas

I want that too clive but that is still prioritising the HEC. During the AI's, 6N and at certain times of the year we will have to field a weaker side in the Rabo if we want to do as well as possible in the HEC.

Nowhere have I said I don't want to do well in the league but it is secondary to performing well in Europe.

I don't dispute that Pete, but Leinster and munster can still win league games without their star players and this shortcoming on our part will always annoy me regardless of HEC success. Its ok to have the star names do well as long as your team isnt below average without them...

Rava wrote:

red_stag wrote:Fair play lads. Thats the attitude.

Feic no! I'll have Cardiff, Glasgow and the new Italian team in the striped pyjamas

Thats just arrogant Rava....

we don't know how good that stripey pyjama italian crowd will be..... better the devil you know man .

Rava, realistically how does:

Cardiff Bl;ues
Ulster
Sale Sharks
Castres

suit you?

That would be a SWEET pool draw to get.

I have a friend from the Toulon area, currently living in Belfast. He says that in that area a lot of clubs and pubs now have a ban on professional rugby players thanks to the antics of their highly payed squad. Compared with our softly-spoken and super professional players who totally buy into the culture of the club, its a different world.

That's the one thing Humphreys has done brilliantly at; he's gotten a really professional group together who actually are great role models on and off the field. Thats why I can't believe people fell for Stags Henson WUM a while back. That kind of reputation for unprofessional conduct off the field would be a real deal breaker for Humphreys. He wants guys who are meticulously and totally professional seven days a week during the season. We frown on any kind of rugby drinking culture so strongly it would actually be off-putting to a lot of players I imagine. It's cost players at Ulster their contracts in the recent past.

clivemcl wrote:I don't dispute that Pete, but Leinster and munster can still win league games without their star players and this shortcoming on our part will always annoy me regardless of HEC success. Its ok to have the star names do well as long as your team isnt below average without them...

Whereas I agree generally Clive, Munster have never been successful on two front at the same time... even Leinster couldn't manage the double.

I would be annoyed if we did an Edinburgh...but honestly if we won the HEC I couldn't give a s about our league position.

God I'd be disgusted if we did an Edinburgh, it's not the kind of ethos I'd ever want my club to live by.
You only have to think that if we'd not been sound asleep at home to Treviso and had taken our chances away to Cardiff amongst many other instances we'd have been in the playoffs. We're close but not quite there. I wonder where we'll be in 3 years? I think we'll be in quite a strong position.

Pete330v2 wrote:God I'd be disgusted if we did an Edinburgh, it's not the kind of ethos I'd ever want my club to live by.
You only have to think that if we'd not been sound asleep at home to Treviso and had taken our chances away to Cardiff amongst many other instances we'd have been in the playoffs. We're close but not quite there. I wonder where we'll be in 3 years? I think we'll be in quite a strong position.

Hope so Pete! and we will need the new coach to really bring Henderson Birch Macklin Jackson Marshall Spence and Nelson along to the point where they challenge our current Irish Internationals.

Talkback on Radio Ulster is due to discuss whether GAA and Rugby should be offered more in Catholic/Protestant schools if anyones interested...

Clive the answer is YES YES YES YES YES. Thats my opinion. I won't listen to that though; got stuff to do. Why am I even posting here? Procrastination

You would think that one's a no brainer... its a sad reflection on our society that it's even a topic for debate

When I see that list of names I realise just how much young talent we have coming through, also the likes of Chris Farrell, Conor Gaston etc who will hopefully start making some noise. Our new coach will at the very least bring fresh ideas and at best inspire the side to greater things which will infect the whole of Ulster rugby. That's my optimistic side speaking

Also, does anyone know much about Rob Herring our apparent new hooker?
Any good or not?

red_stag wrote:Rava, realistically how does:

Cardiff Bl;ues
Ulster
Sale Sharks
Castres

suit you?

That would be a SWEET pool draw to get.

I'll take that Stag. Sale with their new signings and coaching team will be tough enough and Castres were semi-finalists in the Top 14 so some pedigree there. No disrespect but the 1st seed in the group is probably the weakest.

Actually I am in Notch's corner. I want to see the best teams at Ravenhill so I would want at least Toulouse. Don't want two French sides though. Our first win on French soil will be hard enough to get so to expect back to back wins might be asking a bit too much.

clivemcl wrote:Talkback on Radio Ulster is due to discuss whether GAA and Rugby should be offered more in Catholic/Protestant schools if anyones interested...

It's a sad reflection on this country that there are still even a divide in education. We're fighting as hard as we can to get our 2 year old into the intergrated school and the fact we have to start now shows the demand that's there which is a ray of sunshine I guess. As for what sports are offered, well that goes without saying, they should be offering at least the most popular local sports. To exclude any sport under any grounds is criminal in my opinion.

Hear hear well said Pete boyo!

rodders wrote:You would think that one's a no brainer... its a sad reflection on our society that it's even a topic for debate

Tell me about it, I nearly screamed last week when Wendy asked "So, the Euro 2012s, will you be supporting the Republic or England?"

clivemcl wrote:Talkback on Radio Ulster is due to discuss whether GAA and Rugby should be offered more in Catholic/Protestant schools if anyones interested...

Thanks for sharing clive is Talkback available on iPlayer?

rodders wrote:You would think that one's a no brainer... its a sad reflection on our society that it's even a topic for debate

Totally agree with that.

Notch wrote:

Thats why I can't believe people fell for Stags Henson WUM a while back.

I can't believe any of you fell for any of Stags WUM's.

I can't believe we aren't interested in Henson .....

Pete330v2 wrote:
Also, does anyone know much about Rob Herring our apparent new hooker?
Any good or not?

I wouldnt expect anything at all. He played a handful of times for LI off the bench and is hardly getting near the matchday 22 with western province.

He might be better than Kyriakou.

Hes IQ and willing to come, probably for fairly cheap. I fear though he's hardly worth this discussion...

He's still young though, so I'll happily be proved wrong!

clivemcl wrote:

rodders wrote:You would think that one's a no brainer... its a sad reflection on our society that it's even a topic for debate

Tell me about it, I nearly screamed last week when Wendy asked "So, the Euro 2012s, will you be supporting the Republic or England?"

It's very sad and it makes me very, very mad.

Notch wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

rodders wrote:You would think that one's a no brainer... its a sad reflection on our society that it's even a topic for debate

Tell me about it, I nearly screamed last week when Wendy asked "So, the Euro 2012s, will you be supporting the Republic or England?"

It's very sad and it makes me very, very mad.

She said that? You surely have to be joking? I am astounded.
In my book that's much worse than phoning Manuel and telling him what you did to his grandaughter. Sack Wendy Austin or suspend her as was Jonathan Ross

marty2086 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Talkback on Radio Ulster is due to discuss whether GAA and Rugby should be offered more in Catholic/Protestant schools if anyones interested...

Thanks for sharing clive is Talkback available on iPlayer?

Yea Marty it will be. Programme is an hour and a half long and it isn't in the first half hour. (Just to help you narrow down the search for the topic)

Pete330v2 wrote:

Notch wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

rodders wrote:You would think that one's a no brainer... its a sad reflection on our society that it's even a topic for debate

Tell me about it, I nearly screamed last week when Wendy asked "So, the Euro 2012s, will you be supporting the Republic or England?"

It's very sad and it makes me very, very mad.

She said that? You surely have to be joking? I am astounded.
In my book that's much worse than phoning Manuel and telling him what you did to his grandaughter. Sack Wendy Austin or suspend her as was Jonathan Ross

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to tune in some day and hear her chirpy voice saying "So, are you still sectarian? Do you still dislike the other community? Ring in and tell us your thoughts!"

Dont know whether to laugh or cry!

clivemcl wrote:I honestly wouldn't be surprised to tune in some day and hear her chirpy voice saying "So, are you still sectarian? Do you still dislike the other community? Ring in and tell us your thoughts!"

Dont know whether to laugh or cry!

Thats it exactly man. I can't bear to listen to these things half the time. They are ass backwards.

Clive if you want to use your really really angry emoticons I wont bat an eyelid. In fact I'll join you. Thats an awful state of affairs from Wendy

Notch wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

rodders wrote:You would think that one's a no brainer... its a sad reflection on our society that it's even a topic for debate

Tell me about it, I nearly screamed last week when Wendy asked "So, the Euro 2012s, will you be supporting the Republic or England?"

It's very sad and it makes me very, very mad.

Me too..... I mean support the country which employs our best players or the one that poaches them... .......

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

rodders wrote:You would think that one's a no brainer... its a sad reflection on our society that it's even a topic for debate

Tell me about it, I nearly screamed last week when Wendy asked "So, the Euro 2012s, will you be supporting the Republic or England?"

It's very sad and it makes me very, very mad.

Me too..... I mean support the country which employs our best players or the one that poaches them... .......

I didnt know Scotland had qualified

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

rodders wrote:You would think that one's a no brainer... its a sad reflection on our society that it's even a topic for debate

Tell me about it, I nearly screamed last week when Wendy asked "So, the Euro 2012s, will you be supporting the Republic or England?"

It's very sad and it makes me very, very mad.

Me too..... I mean support the country which employs our best players or the one that poaches them... .......

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

rodders wrote:You would think that one's a no brainer... its a sad reflection on our society that it's even a topic for debate

Tell me about it, I nearly screamed last week when Wendy asked "So, the Euro 2012s, will you be supporting the Republic or England?"

It's very sad and it makes me very, very mad.

Me too..... I mean support the country which employs our best players or the one that poaches them... .......

I was more referring to your original post about GAA/Rugby than clives reply rodders. Sorry if that was unclear.

Although I do think it's sad people would support England over an Irish side, given we are part of the island of Ireland. But thats hardly surprising given the way our society is.

clivemcl wrote:I personally think that for the success of ulster's progression plan, it is VITAL that Paddy Jackson proves himself as a top level performer this year.

Sorry Clive but this is exactly the sort of expectation that Jackson doesn't need.

It's not his fault that Ulster have ignored the 10 jersey for half a dozen years, and are surprised they're not a complete team.
It's not his fault that Humphreys has been released and he has not been given a structured introduction to the team.
It's not his fault that the IRFU have a ridiculous 'no NIQ for Ulster policy' when they allowed Leinster to sign Berquist to block both McKinley and Madigan.
Neither is it his fault that if Pienaar isn't playing he'll be cast adrift, trying to acclimatise to the higher level outside the headless Paul Marshall.

This coming season Ulster have 14 proven players and Paddy Jackson, who will need Pienaar inside him. Therefore for the success of Ulster's progression plan, it is VITAL that Ruan Pienaar proves himself to be capable of nursing a rookie, stays fit and on good enough form to run the game.