Halle: Federer v Raonic coming up

We may learn something interesting here!

Probably not exactly what Federer had in mind for his 2nd match on grass, but could be fun.

Nadal has confirmed he is playing as well, good to hear!

Apart from the tension of the final and unpleasant wet/cold conditions - Nadal didn't really have much to do at the French Open.

Halle and Queens are all about transitioning and acclimatising from clay courts to the grass courts, in preparation for Wimbledon.

The Raonic - Federer match looks to be a tricky one for Federer.

Tats an interesting match, would Fed play his best in Halle? he would certainly doesn't wanna leak his tactics to Nadal before Wimbledon if at all he has any.

bogbrush wrote:We may learn something interesting here!

Probably not exactly what Federer had in mind for his 2nd match on grass, but could be fun.

Raonic could do to Federer what Federer did to Sampras in 2001.

gboycottnut wrote:

bogbrush wrote:We may learn something interesting here!

Probably not exactly what Federer had in mind for his 2nd match on grass, but could be fun.

Raonic could do to Federer what Federer did to Sampras in 2001.

In a BO3?

The problem with fast surfaces is that it creates a diachotomy for the big, powerful guys. On the one hand a guy like Raonic has a great serve, but on the other their movement isnt great...and because faster-court tennis is so quick and explosive movement is needed to react to shots this can be their undoing. In other words they basically have to blow the guys off court with their serve.

Otherwise why arent Isner and Karlovic winning Wimbledon each year? Or even in years gone by. 6'1 or 6'2' seems to be the optimal height for balance of power and movement.
That said Raonic isnt a bad mover but I'm not sure about his forecourt game which still looks raw. I think Fed will win in 3.

Nadal is playing doubles as well.

lydian wrote:The problem with fast surfaces is that it creates a diachotomy for the big, powerful guys. On the one hand a guy like Raonic has a great serve, but on the other their movement isnt great...and because faster-court tennis is so quick and explosive movement is needed to react to shots this can be their undoing. In other words they basically have to blow the guys off court with their serve.

Otherwise why arent Isner and Karlovic winning Wimbledon each year? Or even in years gone by. 6'1 or 6'2' seems to be the optimal height for balance of power and movement.
That said Raonic isnt a bad mover but I'm not sure about his forecourt game which still looks raw. I think Fed will win in 3.

Nadal is playing doubles as well.

Well the top players in men's tennis are now better returners of a serve than was the case 10/20 years ago.

lydian wrote:The problem with fast surfaces is that it creates a diachotomy for the big, powerful guys. On the one hand a guy like Raonic has a great serve, but on the other their movement isnt great...and because faster-court tennis is so quick and explosive movement is needed to react to shots this can be their undoing. In other words they basically have to blow the guys off court with their serve.

Otherwise why arent Isner and Karlovic winning Wimbledon each year? Or even in years gone by. 6'1 or 6'2' seems to be the optimal height for balance of power and movement.
That said Raonic isnt a bad mover but I'm not sure about his forecourt game which still looks raw. I think Fed will win in 3.

Nadal is playing doubles as well.

Trust Rafa in for a penny in for a pound.
Is it being televised do you know lydian ???

A big guy like Milos has the threat of one break and you're done, and tie breakers.
I see in his first match he got past Petzschner 7-5 7-6. Sounds close. But he banged own 19 aces (and God knows how many unreturnables). He won 41 of 45 1st serves and had no bps against him.

Nobody will want him at Wimbledon; he's a potential 4th round exit for anyone.

He's definitely going to take a big scalp pretty soon.

And that might well be Federer.

Even in Madrid Fed had to dig very deep to escape an early exit, coming from a set down and edging a TB in the third. Raonic's ace count was around three times that of Federer for that match, and, IIRC, throughout the opening set he conceded only a single point whenever the first serve was in .....

I am with Lydian on this one, Federer in 3.

It's happening then.

Fed'll really have to be on this one.

Bogbrush, when is it?

The "trouble" with Federer is thart he tends to knock over the big servers like Raonic and Del Potro without too much bother. It's only has been Nadal and now Djokovic that he has major difficulty with.

I feel we're getting ahead of ourselves with Raonic like many did with a certain Dolgopolov who's proving that finding consistency is a difficult trait to lock down.
Still, undoubtedly he's quite special & it should be a great match. I'd tip Fed to win in three but wouldn't be suprised if Raonic manages to upset the odds

I agree with Lydian. Movement will be key on grass. Also Federer handles big servers pretty well. It's unfortunate both Del Potro and Raonic are running into FedEx most of the time. I wanted them to put into Djokovic/Nadal half more to see how he fares with them.

It Must Be Love wrote:Bogbrush, when is it?

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Scores/schedule.aspx?EventId=500

mangamuri wrote:It's unfortunate both Del Potro and Raonic are running into FedEx most of the time. I wanted them to put into Djokovic/Nadal half more to see how he fares with them.

Del Potro was in Nadal's half @W 2011. He has not played Djokovic on grass.

Raonic (albeit on clay) was in tough match against Monaco at RG. His W 2011 was marred by injury.

Roanic will be a difficult opponent for Fed, with the way he is playing I guess it will Roanic in 3.

Fed looked ultra rusty in his first round 1st set against Mayer, hope things get better for Fed in the 2nd set if not it could be an early exit.

ALPanorak wrote:I feel we're getting ahead of ourselves with Raonic like many did with a certain Dolgopolov who's proving that finding consistency is a difficult trait to lock down.
Still, undoubtedly he's quite special & it should be a great match. I'd tip Fed to win in three but wouldn't be suprised if Raonic manages to upset the odds

I would say we are already seeing differences between Raonic and Dolgopolov though. Raonic has already beaten Andy Murray and pushed Federer pretty close and believe he is still learning. He also has a fearsome weapon in his serve. I don't think the same can be said of Dolgopolov as in has he beaten any of the top players and he doesn't possess a really big weapon.

I'm sticking with my pick of Raonic for this one, although I suspect he will be made to work for it. For Federer, with his strong commitment to Halle, this has always been more than just a warm-up tourney.

Im prepared obviously to be proven wrong.(and doubtless I will be lol ). but all this talk of Raonic being a big threat to those at the top doesnt convince me as yet... Monaco managed to deal with his serve. And lets be fair he isnt the only one on tour with a big serve. Isner and Karlovic have all been "contained" .. Im not saying of course that he hasn´t the potential but Im still waiting to see the big break through. As for Dolgopolov.. I disagree he does have the weapons unfortunately (lydian´s favourite expression) he is a bag of frogs. Very undisciplined and impatient I still think he can make it if he could harness that talent of his.

I agree with Haddie.

I doubt Raonic will roll Federer, on grass especially.

Oh don't get me wrong I am not saying he will beat Federer today just that I believe he has more of a chance establishing himself as a potential slam winner in the future than Dolgopolov in my opinion that is.

Haddie-nuff wrote:................................ And lets be fair he isnt the only one on tour with a big serve. Isner and Karlovic have all been "contained" .. ...............

Indeed ! As illustrated just yesterday, when even 35 Karlovic aces (is that a record for 3 sets...??) wasn't quite enough to take out the (relatively) small man from Taipei.

But on the basis of his performances so far this year, I'd say there is rather more to Raonic than a big serve

lags

Im not actually convinced if Im honest. He is a big man and I find his movement around the court somewhat clumsy and inflexible. I dont think he is as good as Delpo personally.. and someone like little Daveeed can cope with him by moving him around the court.. which is what Monaco did. Of course he has the weapons and Im prepared to eat my words.. but so far all Ive witnessed is that he has WTG

Remember though Haddie that he is still young and so there is time to improve his movement around the court. Another area he can and should work on is his return of serve.

The thing Raonic has over the likes of Isner/Karlovic is the ability to mix up his length and not play the hit and hope length like the other 2. Isner plays to same length and doesn't have the same effective FH that Raonic does. Raonic has much more control on his FH and doesn't try to rely on his power to force the point.

Yes Craig Im aware of that..I think you will see from my previous post that quote "Im not saying he has not got the potential" of course he has. But it seems to me that players are learning how to contain big servers and the big men in general. Of course there is a huge advantage in being over 6.5.ft tall in the way of serve.. but it has its disadvantages too. Look how Roger always plays low shots to Delpo-s feet .. or how the smaller men run the "giants" of the game all over the court. Its only of late that Isner has been found to have a fair few ground strokes in his tool box... if he isn´t too exhausted to use them.

The jury is out for me at the moment with regard to Raonic.. so far Ive heard all the talk... now I need to see him do the walk. When he does Ill come back with my cap in hand, swallow my words, and say well there you go :D

What you find with these 6'5'+ guys is 2 things. Huge serve. Huge forehand.

What they lack is also 2 things. Nimbleness. Variety.
Their strengths become their weaknesses due to over-reliance on them.

Grass needs all of the above...but particularly the ability to adapt to shots coming quickly from all angles.

Raonic has a huge serve...but he's no Sampras in terms of variety, 2nd and clutch.

Yes he's a threat if his serve is 'on'. But the very top guys will exploit his nimbleness/movement. Convserely if Federer is 'off' today he'll struggle.

But having got a look at Raonic at Madrid he wont be taking the match lightly. I'm going Federer 7-6 7-5.

CC's point ref Raonic's relative youth is well made.

With the sort of quality and experience of those currently holding down the top four spots it's becoming harder & harder to make a big breakthrough at a very young age, in contrast to what was happening reasonably often in previous decades. In times past, Raonic at 21 y.o would have been considered a very 'mature' player but things have been changing at the top of the game.

By way of example, Slams have been won by teenagers on no less than TEN occasions since the start of the open era, yet it's only happened once (Nadal at RG) in the last 20 + years .....

Raonic has lots of time to refine and develop his all-round game and I think it's a little early to judge just how far he might go. He should get inside top 20 very soon, but of course after that it only gets tougher.

Had a look at the odds for this match and Raonic is 11/4 while Fed is around 1/3. As Raonic has nicked a set of Fed in their previous encounters i do think there is reasonable chance of an upset here. Especially as Fed may not really care about winning the title ( in previous years when he won he had the carrot of going for consecutive win on grass streak). Now i Feel Fed will want this tournament to be a warm up for Wimbers, so i feel Raonic may want this win a little more than Fed. Now, that said, Fed is still naturally the favourite. I was considering a punt on Raonic, as usually they put Fed/Nal/Djoko as huge favourites, but at this price of 11/4 i think they might have it around right. My own calc gave Raonic odds of 9/4, so theres not loads of extra value there. 7/2 offered would have got me more interested, so on the fence on this one.

Like said above. Federer will have to be 'on' for this one.

Worth just sticking on £3 or something when you're in that kind of uncertainty, so you don't miss out entirely if he wins... Funny to see this post, I was going to put the bet on Raonic as well, but expected to see slightly better odds too.

Federer never loses to ace freaks. Atleast not when he gets the ball back. Easy win for Federer, 6-3 6-1.

Hmm. Kholsch has won this tourny before. I should have thought that Nadal also will be using Halle to warm up and should have checked the prematch odds properly also. May have made a mistake there!

Fed's got a real incentive to go for the win now that there's no prospect of facing one of his main rivals in the F a week before Wimbledon.

I'd like to see him win this match, and this Tournament again. Fingers crossed.

Well i've been a bit silly and put a bet on #raonic today afterall. I agree with BarryS though that Fed might go for the title now with no chance of meeting Nadal. Although if he did just want a warm up, there would be no shame in him exiting to Raonic.

barrystar wrote:Fed's got a real incentive to go for the win now that there's no prospect of facing one of his main rivals in the F a week before Wimbledon.

I'd like to see him win this match, and this Tournament again. Fingers crossed.

Another title (if he wins it) and even better, more points to close the gap for the No.2 spot if he goes onto win (not a lot of points, 250 but it closes the gap down to 500 or so with Nadal).

If you look at Fed's record at Halle he's never gone for the warm-up - he's always gone for the win since he first started going there, and certainly since he became a slam contender.

I was interested to see what he'd do if Nadal also went for the win, whether he'd want to face Nadal in the final. I suspect that Fed's sufficiently pig-headed to make such calculations based on his own schedule and not what his opponents are doing but we won't find out now.

Yes barrystar and in the current circumstances, the win is crucial for Fed.

I'm more interested in the points he gains, because with a Rafa exit, Rafa now needs to perform well not only @ Wimbledon but the Olympics, Cinci & Canada to keep Fed @ bay. Wimbledon will be helpful, getting to the semi will help Fed close the gap to a few hundred points, then he's got a great chance of taking No.2 spot, but let's wait and see if he beats Raonic before we get ahead of ourselves!

First set to Milos!. If i cashed out my bet now i could double my money.. Do i let it run or don't I???

Fed won more points but lost the set.

The 1st set woe continues, Raonic wins the 1st set and capitulates in the 2nd with an early break down, its 3 rd time in a row of 3 matches.

Tom_____ wrote:First set to Milos!. If i cashed out my bet now i could double my money.. Do i let it run or don't I???

I'd cash it in if it's not too late, Fed wants this one.

Similar tale.

Sounds like Fed was better player (unlike at Madrid) but struggled to break down the Raonic serve while sailing through his own service games. Didn't watch it though.

"It was nice to come out and play some decent tennis after yesterday's shoot-out drill," said Federer, referring to his quarter-final win against Milos Raonic in a third-set tie-break.