Wimbledon Day 2, or Day 1b

First topic message reminder :

Well having enjoyed good weather throughout the first days play it feels a bit weird to have matches carried over into the second day. Imagine where the event will be if there's rain!!

Anyway, today is traditionally Ladies Day, or perhaps in 2012 it might be called Drama Queens Day, for reasons I don't fully understand

Nadal and Murray enter the fray after yesterdays routine wins for Federer and Djokovic. Isner and Berdych bit the dust yesterday; any surprises in store?

Great match that though. Credit to Robson for a gritty display.

Robson like Golding deserved better out of their matches.

Been impressed with what Britain has had to offer in these last 2 days.

well played both players.

Robson has showed a lot of potential in this match. You can see the weapons she has and they will only improve.

Plus as this match showed, you can see the areas she needs to improve, and the thing is they can be improved with good coaching

Lots of positives for Laura, 3rd youngest player in the draw remember.

Needs to develop an effective slice and keep working on the movement. But the tools are there and she's improving. If only she'd taken one of those BP's at 3-2 second set.

Good effort from Robson, Schiavone is one tough, resilient customer so she did well to maintain her strong hitting for so long.

Think the good thing is that Robson has toned down the aggression. Like the commentators said, foot injury in April, fractured thigh bone in December. For me for such injuries makes that performance the more remarkable.

Heather is far more evolved player than Laura Robson. You can tell which 1 practises the harder.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Heather is far more evolved player than Laura Robson. You can tell which 1 practises the harder.

Not to do with the respective ages? Heather 20 and Laura 18 and yet Laura is ranked higher.

Bizarre comment.

I think Laura might get a bit further than Heather. She can get fitter and improve her movement more easily than Heather can add power.

Two fine prospects though. As good as we've had on the woman's side for many a year.

David Goffin now has taken his match by the scruff of the neck. He leads Tomic by two sets to one and has an early break in the fourth set.

Danny_1982 wrote:I think Laura might get a bit further than Heather. She can get fitter and improve her movement more easily than Heather can add power.

Two fine prospects though. As good as we've had on the woman's side for many a year.

Since the mighty Barker and Wade

Wasn't she 15 when she last played the juniors? I'm sure Robson was a better player last year than she is this. She's talented but doesn't have the fitness that the good players have.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Wasn't she 15 when she last played the juniors? I'm sure Robson was a better player last year than she is this. She's talented but doesn't have the fitness that the good players have.

She has progressed loads from last year. And the reason she doesn't have the fitness is because she is still physically developing and is only 18!!

She played Juniors up until 2010. I think to expect much more from Laura from 16-18 is just daft. In today's modern game it takes exceptional talent to cut it from 16/17 as a top 50 player in the world. You're talking Sharapova territory.

She is the youngest player in the WTA top 100. That in itself is amazing.

Laura Robson, I don't think she is pretty enough to become a WTA top tenner.

polished_man wrote:Laura Robson, I don't think she is pretty enough to become a WTA top tenner.

Though Schiavone was

legendkillarV2 wrote:She is the youngest player in the WTA top 100. That in itself is amazing.

That says it all. Youngest player in the top 100 and pushing a recent slam winner to 3 sets. Laura is the real deal and I don't know how anyone could question that.

As long as she improves in the right areas, I think she could be top 20 before she exits her teens.

Who has Laura beating on the WTA tour to justify getting a wildcard? Heather has actually beaten players on tour, she deserved it, Laura though? Same with Naomi Broady etc.

Tomic has been very disappointing, loses to Goffin. Goffin has a huge future in tennis just doesn't get phased by anything on the court. Delightful kid.

Goffin beats Tomic in four sets. Another seed falls.

Well Goffin has certainly justified his wildcard and shown that RG was no fluke. Tomic looks as if he has all the shots but plays in a rather casual way. May be just his style, but he looks lazy.

Tomic smashes his racquet repeatedly on the grass court after losing - right in the serving area - should have recieved a penalty. Very poor behaviour. It explains all the booing from the crowd afterwards perhaps.

Tomic gets a lot of hype for his one good run at Wimbledon, to me he does not look like ever being a top 10 player, he doesn't really have his own style either, just seems to wait for errors like alot of the lower ranked players do. He gets in trouble with the police alot aswell back home in Aus.

Johanna Konta (born in Hungary I believe) but as of May this year a British citizen is pushing Christina McHale the US seed very hard and leads 8-7 in the final set. Rain has stopped play.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Who has Laura beating on the WTA tour to justify getting a wildcard? Heather has actually beaten players on tour, she deserved it, Laura though? Same with Naomi Broady etc.

JM - you don't think being the youngest player in the top 100, being British and a junior Wimbledon champion justifies her wildcard?

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Who has Laura beating on the WTA tour to justify getting a wildcard? Heather has actually beaten players on tour, she deserved it, Laura though? Same with Naomi Broady etc.

They both performed well and hence merited their wildcards - both exceeding their current ranking in the performances shown. Laura has a ranking of 97, but this came a little too late for a direct entry. They must both go over their matches with their coaches to understand exactly how and why they lost and to understand what they must do next time to beat these same opponents. If they don't learn from their matches then that is the time to criticise them.

In fact if I was in the LTA I would be looking at their performances post-Wimbledon and expecting to see improvements based on their Wimbledon experiences.

Well I feel she would have benefitted more by playing qualifiers and getting a few more points to her name, she was probably not given a choice though. Schiavone is not that good off clay courts, and it showed today.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Well I feel she would have benefitted more by playing qualifiers and getting a few more points to her name, she was probably not given a choice though. Schiavone is not that good off clay courts, and it showed today.

Well I did myself prefer they go through qualifiers - it is a nice little tournament on its own with decent points to be won to improve ones ranking. However I was sort of persuaded by arguments made by some (e.g. djlove), but with the main previso they make use of the qualifying week gaining experience and perhaps points in another grass court tournament (e.g. Eastbourne).

My main gripe is seeing British wild cards being thrashed first round "6-4 6-2 6-0" or "6-0 6-3" which has been what has happened in the past ... and apparently learning nothing from the experience as assessed from their post-Wimbledon performances.

What appalling weather we have been having in Britain - dreadful weather for most of the Spring - dreadful weather so far for the summer

I don't like Brits getting wild cards when they don't deserve it, or if they've had multiple wild cards in the past. But I do think we should give young up and coming Brits wild cards to experience the big courts and big match atmospheres and playing against top players.

For me, that is more beneficial to the likes of Laura who will before long be playing in these big matches more regularly.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Heather is far more evolved player than Laura Robson. You can tell which 1 practises the harder.

Not to do with the respective ages? Heather 20 and Laura 18 and yet Laura is ranked higher.

Bizarre comment.

Its been glaringly obvious for years that Robson has far bigger holes in her game that Watson. Movement being the biggest problem and something which really is hard to do something significant about at this late stage. Watson is a much more athletic player with a much more dynamic game and imo a better understanding of how to construct points. Theres less than 2 years between the two, is more like 1 1/2 years and I would say at the same stage when heather was Lauras age she was the better, more evolved player. Watson has a higher career high ranking and will go higher than Robson the Wimbledon performance this year. Given the potential Robson showed at a young age she has not progressed at much as expected. whether this is due to injuries is up for debate. Personally i would expect more progress in her conditioning inspite of injuries. I also think Heather is more serious about her physical condition, as you can see a marked improvement in her physical appearance each year for the last 3 years. I think if she carries on developing strength she will manage to develop more weapons/ a stronger defensive base.

Finally i would also point out that Heather is showing really good consistency in her results:
http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Player/Activity/0,,12781~16047,00.html

Invariably she is progressing in tournaments passed people her ranking would suggest she could until she comes up against some one ranked a fair way higher.

Robson on the other hand, although sometime good, has been far more inconsistent when she has been in tournaments:
http://www.wtatennis.com/page/Player/Activity/0,,12781~15680,00.html


The truth of it for me is that heather is going to have better chance on clay and slow HC, like AUS and as we crave the Wimbers slam champs the press gives more credence to Robson as her game may well suit the faster surfaces more, but for me this does not make her the one to follow.

As far as I read it currently:

Watson - potential to be consistent top 30
Robson - potential to be top 50 (if she gets fitter)

I hope they both prove me wrong by achieving more.

Danny_1982 wrote:I don't like Brits getting wild cards when they don't deserve it, or if they've had multiple wild cards in the past. But I do think we should give young up and coming Brits wild cards to experience the big courts and big match atmospheres and playing against top players.

For me, that is more beneficial to the likes of Laura who will before long be playing in these big matches more regularly.

My view is that if they are given wildcards then they along with their coaches have to have maybe two or three post-match (post-Wimbledon) discussions / interviews - to discuss their matches - to discuss what they have learnt - to discuss what they needed to do / where they needed to be to have actually won the match - to discuss what they will change in their training / preparations to try to bridge the identified deficits - and to discuss how they have developed their games accordingly in post wimbledon tournaments.

So I would have something along the lines of
a) a post match meeting (in second week of wimbledon or week following wimbledon)
b) a meeting a month later (to discuss training changes etc)
c) a meeting 6 months later to discuss the evidence that they have learnt and developed their game from their wimbledon experience.

Interesting perspective Tom.

I think Heather has a really good attitude and athletic ability, but I do wonder how far she can realistically get without a weapon.

Laura has the serve and the power off both wings. She doesn't have the variety or movement that Heather has, but I disagree with you in one sense because those are two areas I feel that she can improve. Especially being only 18.

I would much rather be in the position of trying to improve the movement and variety of a powerful 18 year old, than trying to add much needed power to a 20 year old.

I like both of them, but I think Laura will be the higher ranked of the two.

Following on from some of the points made by Tom_____

If Heather hadn't have been drawn against Azarenka in the first round of the Australian Open, then we might have been looking at her third consecutive 2nd round grand slam tournament appearance. Regular second round grand slam appearances is the mark of a "64 - 32" ranked player (average 48, i.e. a top fifty player).

Tremendous stuff from Bellucci so far.

He looks like a top 10 player.

Great hitting from Bellucci. Fantastic but can he keep it up? I have my doubts.

Have I missed something? I just tuned in to the Nadal match and he's lost the first 4 games?

Bellucci is on fire out here! Still Nadal will win at a canter, might have to play an extra set though

Any info about Belucci? He has just played four games of brilliant tennis as he leads Rafael Nadal 4-0 first set. Of course it wont last but he is producing some excellent tennis.

Cmon Bellucci, beat the dirtballer.

Nadal gets a break back after some horrid volleying by Bellucci. I could have made that shot!

I'd be quite surprised if Nadal lost the first set, he only lost one entire set through all of RG!

Still expect Nadal to win, only started watching now and was surprised to see this scoreline. Surprising first few days, I thought yesterday was quite a surprise!

If I were Nadal I would be trying to bring him in all the time based on that game. Shocking volleying. He gift wrapped that game. If he'd hit 2 average volleys it'd be 5-0.

Clay season is gone. And Nadal is done.

Danny_1982 wrote:Interesting perspective Tom.

I think Heather has a really good attitude and athletic ability, but I do wonder how far she can realistically get without a weapon.

Laura has the serve and the power off both wings. She doesn't have the variety or movement that Heather has, but I disagree with you in one sense because those are two areas I feel that she can improve. Especially being only 18.

I would much rather be in the position of trying to improve the movement and variety of a powerful 18 year old, than trying to add much needed power to a 20 year old.

I like both of them, but I think Laura will be the higher ranked of the two.

Well, i respect your view, but i will say my understanding of movement its its something you have to well learn before your teens really, as it becomes engrained in your instinctive movement. Theres negative comments about Robsons movement going back to around when she was 10 as far as i remember - so its still something she is struggling to address. Personally i think its to late and she will always need to bring her A-game to dictate and win matches. I also think lack of power for Heather is an issue, but i think its something some one can gradually develop, or work around over time with clever tennis (e.g Erani, Schiavone)

Christina McHale has beaten new Brit Johanna Konta 10-8 in the third set. Big chances missed there by Bellucci and he may live to regret them.

The fact that Nadull has won 2 Wimbledons is an aberration.

He would have never won Wimbledon in the 1990s.

Come on Bellucci, please hold!

daltond wrote:The fact that Nadull has won 2 Wimbledons is an aberration.

He would have never won Wimbledon in the 1990s.

Don't speak too soon, Nadal is getting back into this match.