Jeff International Windows: Snog, marry or avoid?

Given that the fixture list will be announced on Wednesday, and that remembering that the big four 'London' sides will be secure in the knowledge that they will be secure in the knowledge that they will be not be having to face one of their rivals during the IWs.

The IWs are likely to be roughly 3 November-1 December (six weeks) and 27 January-16 March.

Who would like to meet during these windows. As the Tigers have met the Sarries outside the IWs once in the regular season over the past two years, I'd like to avoid them plus Harlequins, Northampton, and any strong side with the few EPS players like Exeter and Bath.

Portnoy wrote:Given that the fixture list will be announced on Wednesday, and that remembering that the big four 'London' sides will be secure in the knowledge that they will be secure in the knowledge that they will be not be having to face one of their rivals during the IWs.

The IWs are likely to be roughly 3 November-1 December (six weeks) and 27 January-16 March.

Who would like to meet during these windows. As the Tigers have met outside the IWs once in the regular season over the past two years, I'd like to avoid them plus Harlequins, Northampton, and any strong side with the few EPS players like Exeter and Bath.

I await London Welsh's appeal against the fixture list on competition grounds for not being included in the London double-headers!!

how many different ways can you write the same article????

I really do not care who we get during IWs.

IF we are to be serious competition on the HC front we need to have sufficient quality in depth to cope with resting the international players.


I just hope we get London Welsh away on a weekend when I am unavailable to travel.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
I await London Welsh's appeal against the fixture list on competition grounds for not being included in the London double-headers!!

Given theres 6 london clubs now they may have to go even further down the specialist market route and have a triple threat.

Maybe the provincial outpost teams should set up a rival "We cant be bothered to pretend to be London clubs" double header, played at Wembley of course.

It is a touch odd that one of only two london based clubs wont be playing in the double headers. But theyd only insist on moving it to a stadium somewhere near Peru anyway.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
I await London Welsh's appeal against the fixture list on competition grounds for not being included in the London double-headers!!

Given theres 6 london clubs now they may have to go even further down the specialist market route and have a triple threat.

Maybe the provincial outpost teams should set up a rival "We cant be bothered to pretend to be London clubs" double header, played at Wembley of course.

It is a touch odd that one of only two london based clubs wont be playing in the double headers. But theyd only insist on moving it to a stadium somewhere near Peru anyway.

Who are the 6 London clubs you refer to?

London Irish, Londonw Welsh, London Wasps, London Saracens, London Harlequins and London Tigers.

London Tigers? Look I know you play a few finals at Twickenham but it doesn't make you a London club!

"London" Welsh,"London" Wasps and "London" Irish won't be in London either!

As it stands only Quins are based in London, Saracens will join them in around February.

yeah sorry im going mental I counted LW twice

LW are still based in London even if they arent playing there. Its a London club.

LW are still based in London even if they arent playing there

So (going from memory here when our club's ground was being done over by the council and we had to travel to the pitch) LW and their opposition will get changed in ODP, then get on the bus and travel to play the game at Oxford?

Will they get their meal tickets before they get back on the bus (with muddy attire) on get them back in the changing room at ODP?

Just hope the commitee man remembers to collect the valuables as the clubhouse will be deserted for a good part of the day.

beshocked wrote:London Tigers? Look I know you play a few finals at Twickenham but it doesn't make you a London club!

"London" Welsh,"London" Wasps and "London" Irish won't be in London either!

As it stands only Quins are based in London, Saracens will join them in around February.

How's the move going to affect you 'shocked? Will you still be able to get to games easily?

Carpe Diem wrote:

beshocked wrote:London Tigers? Look I know you play a few finals at Twickenham but it doesn't make you a London club!

"London" Welsh,"London" Wasps and "London" Irish won't be in London either!

As it stands only Quins are based in London, Saracens will join them in around February.

How's the move going to affect you 'shocked? Will you still be able to get to games easily?

Shouldn't affect me too much. Might add 10-15 minutes onto the journey but it's not bad. Will probably take an hour to get there which is bearable. That's driving obviously. Not sure what the deal is with parking and what traffic will be like but we'll see.

London has an extensive and regular public transport system 'shocked.

Why not use that? It's greener.

beshocked wrote:

Carpe Diem wrote:

beshocked wrote:London Tigers? Look I know you play a few finals at Twickenham but it doesn't make you a London club!

"London" Welsh,"London" Wasps and "London" Irish won't be in London either!

As it stands only Quins are based in London, Saracens will join them in around February.

How's the move going to affect you 'shocked? Will you still be able to get to games easily?

Shouldn't affect me too much. Might add 10-15 minutes onto the journey but it's not bad. Will probably take an hour to get there which is bearable. That's driving obviously. Not sure what the deal is with parking and what traffic will be like but we'll see.

Good to hear it's not going to put you off!

London has an extensive and regular public transport system 'shocked.

Why not use that? It's greener.

It's also incompetently run Portnoy. Whenever I visit London there is always part of the underground system out of order (usually a section I'd quite like to use) and very rarely any helpful staff to be found that will offer any help. There's a good reason I despise travelling around the capital.

Carpe Diem wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Carpe Diem wrote:

beshocked wrote:London Tigers? Look I know you play a few finals at Twickenham but it doesn't make you a London club!

"London" Welsh,"London" Wasps and "London" Irish won't be in London either!

As it stands only Quins are based in London, Saracens will join them in around February.

How's the move going to affect you 'shocked? Will you still be able to get to games easily?

Shouldn't affect me too much. Might add 10-15 minutes onto the journey but it's not bad. Will probably take an hour to get there which is bearable. That's driving obviously. Not sure what the deal is with parking and what traffic will be like but we'll see.

Good to hear it's not going to put you off!

I think it's more likely Saracen's style - kicking the ball repeatedly - wasting the very talented backs which would put me off going. Winning is good and all but Quins and Leinster have shown you can play some good stuff and win in style.

Also the way Saracens occasionally treat their fans might put me off too. The geographical location of Barnet Copthall is fine though.

Portnoy London's transport is alright but I live in Hertfordshire. Not sure the best way to get to Barnet Copthall by train from there. Probably too inconvenient and expensive.

unless Sarries plan to build a decent car park, parking will be worse than Watford. (Hard to believe I know).

Getting there bt Public Transport really depends where in Herts you live.

'shocked, I will be less frustrated by Sarries next year if as I hope and pray that now AF's gone, they'll play more positively - especially as they have Ashton at their disposal and won't make him play to a too- defensive game-plan.

He could be #1 try-scorer next term.

Portnoy wrote:Given that the fixture list will be announced on Wednesday, and that remembering that the big four 'London' sides will be secure in the knowledge that they will be secure in the knowledge that they will be not be having to face one of their rivals during the IWs.

The IWs are likely to be roughly 3 November-1 December (six weeks) and 27 January-16 March.

Who would like to meet during these windows. As the Tigers have met the Sarries outside the IWs once in the regular season over the past two years, I'd like to avoid them plus Harlequins, Northampton, and any strong side with the few EPS players like Exeter and Bath.

There are 4/5 International weeks in the Autumn, and 8 in the Spring. That's 12/13 weeks in total, less 4/5 for the LV brings us back to 8.

In those 8, you want to avoid 5 different teams. Unless of course by "strong sides with few EPS players" you also want to stretch to include London Irish and Gloucester as well. Obviously this is based on last year's England squads, as this year's EPS hasn't been announced yet.

You're going to be disappointed mate. But I get the feeling you would be upset if you weren't.

Portnoy,

Wouldnt you rather take on Quins without Care, Robshaw, Marler and Brown?
Or Sarries without Ashton, Strettle, Farrell, Goode, Barritt and Botha. Things are certainly different for them this year, no more Beshocked moaning about them being overlooked.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Portnoy,

Wouldnt you rather take on Quins without Care, Robshaw, Marler and Brown?
Or Sarries without Ashton, Strettle, Farrell, Goode, Barritt and Botha. Things are certainly different for them this year, no more Beshocked moaning about them being overlooked.

True I have stopped moaning about them being overlooked. You have to give me credit for that!

Got to keep consistent can't moan about players being taken by England as it's what I wanted.

You need strength in depth - I see call ups and injuries as arguably a blessing in disguise. It gives player's opportunities to shine.

I don't think Portnoy cares as long as Tigers win.

A boring win is still a win. An exciting loss is still a loss.

Of course missing players can have an impact but you should have faith in whoever you pick (as long as the best available is picked).

beshocked wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Portnoy,

Wouldnt you rather take on Quins without Care, Robshaw, Marler and Brown?
Or Sarries without Ashton, Strettle, Farrell, Goode, Barritt and Botha. Things are certainly different for them this year, no more Beshocked moaning about them being overlooked.

True I have stopped moaning about them being overlooked. You have to give me credit for that!

Got to keep consistent can't moan about players being taken by England as it's what I wanted.

You need strength in depth - I see call ups and injuries as arguably a blessing in disguise. It gives player's opportunities to shine.
I don't think Portnoy cares as long as Tigers win.

A boring win is still a win. An exciting loss is still a loss.

Of course missing players can have an impact but you should have faith in whoever you pick (as long as the best available is picked).

To be honest that is how it goes. If David Lyons had not picked up an injury at the Scarlets, people would still probably not have heard of Ben Morgan. And likewise with Hugo Ellis and the string of decent (and semi-decent) scrum halves that have been played for England.

Scarletspiderman very true.

How much did you get from Gloucester for Morgan?

I think Glaws paid £100k to release Morgan from his contract and another £100k to sign up the Scarlets head coach.

Very nice. Particularly for Scarlets. Does that transfer come out of the cap?

100k, and another 100k for Nigel. But I think that Glaws will technically reclaim that 100k for Ben through the EPS payments so it was technically the RFU that bought Morgan, if that makes sense.


Anyway to the point of the thread I think the big teams are the ones you want to play during the AIs and 6Ns because they are without big names, and sometime a fair few of them. The lower sides (London Welsh) are ones that you would like to avoid, as for them it is there best chance for a big scalp. However its the middle of the road sides are the ones you would really want to avoid, because they don't lose as many, and the players who are stepping in as replacements are pushing that extra bit to ty and nail a starting spot.

Why would we want to avoid London Welsh? Only complacency would let them have a chance in my opinion. Have to be ruthless.

The main teams to avoid in my opinion are Gloucester and Exeter.

I think they would lose one backrower each only. Worrying.

beshocked - i just would rather face a big team that has been stripped of its stars than a minnow that is at full strenght. However, it is the middle of the table teams that lose hardly anyone that are the dangerous (like Bath, Glaucester, London Irish etc)

beshocked wrote:Very nice. Particularly for Scarlets. Does that transfer come out of the cap?

I'm pretty sure it does (although have no reference). So Gloucester will have a playing squad that is £100k under everyone elses BUT there's been increases this year of about £500000 (including academy bonus) + Marque signing up to £300k (I think these numbers are correct).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:beshocked - i just would rather face a big team that has been stripped of its stars than a minnow that is at full strenght. However, it is the middle of the table teams that lose hardly anyone that are the dangerous (like Bath, Glaucester, London Irish etc)

Personally I'd rather watch two competitive teams play unencumbered by call outs to the national squad.

It may have passed other posters' notice, but I have never gone down the Tigers for Tigers' sake line. It has always been the rugby for rugby's sake line.

Pick any of my posts and show me where you contend that I am not.

Premiership Rugby should probably look at changing the fixtures so the top 4 sides don't clash during these periods.

Portnoy - so would you have an issue with two teams equally hampered by call ups playing each other? If the fixtures were 'rigged' so teams who provide a heap of players play each other and team who provide none play each other?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Portnoy - so would you have an issue with two teams equally hampered by call ups playing each other? If the fixtures were 'rigged' so teams who provide a heap of players play each other and team who provide none play each other?

It's a;ways disappointing to any game between sides not containing their best fit, available,selected players, Scarlet.

Portnoy wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:beshocked - i just would rather face a big team that has been stripped of its stars than a minnow that is at full strenght. However, it is the middle of the table teams that lose hardly anyone that are the dangerous (like Bath, Glaucester, London Irish etc)

Personally I'd rather watch two competitive teams play unencumbered by call outs to the national squad.

It may have passed other posters' notice, but I have never gone down the Tigers for Tigers' sake line. It has always been the rugby for rugby's sake line.

Pick any of my posts and show me where you contend that I am not.

It just so happens that these two coincide, is that it, Portnoy? I'm sorry that I can't be arsed to go back thru all your posts and find examples, but here's a general one - when Tigers were in 11th place in the league after 6(?) matches and 19 (?) points adrift of the leaders, you must have mentioned your intention to rework the end of season league table up to 10 times a day - however, come the end of the season, with Tigers have recovered and been losing finalists in the playoffs, I cannot remember you delivering said table (by the way, pls don't take this as a request to deliver said table, I wouldn't want to waste your time either!). Of course you are a smart man and more than capable of mixing up your Tigers-based whinges with more general posts - so in that sense, fair play to you, I doff my capheaddress!

gowales wrote:Premiership Rugby should probably look at changing the fixtures so the top 4 sides don't clash during these periods.

In theory yes , you want the top fixtures played by full strength sides ...but ...
Firstly you dont know who the top 4 teams are in advance ( well you know one of them.....)
Secondly its usually the smaller teams that bumming Tigers during the international periods that annoy the fans, losing to Sarries/Quins/Whoever takes the jeff cup that year is by the by and callups cangt really be blamed for it. Its getting beaten by second division united because they can only afford Tongans thats annoying.




In Portnoys defence he always held that Tigers (or whoever else) werent winning the Jeff when they sneaked in the playoffs and won the final. He has consistently been a league table dinosaur.He may be a curmudgeon, but an open one.

Me PSW? A curmudgeon? A dinosaur?

Well, OK I'll accept that since you doff your cap to my consistency.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

gowales wrote:Premiership Rugby should probably look at changing the fixtures so the top 4 sides don't clash during these periods.

In theory yes , you want the top fixtures played by full strength sides ...but ...
Firstly you dont know who the top 4 teams are in advance ( well you know one of them.....)
Secondly its usually the smaller teams that bumming Tigers during the international periods that annoy the fans, losing to Sarries/Quins/Whoever takes the jeff cup that year is by the by and callups cangt really be blamed for it. Its getting beaten by second division united because they can only afford Tongans thats annoying.




In Portnoys defence he always held that Tigers (or whoever else) werent winning the Jeff when they sneaked in the playoffs and won the final. He has consistently been a league table dinosaur.He may be a curmudgeon, but an open one.

If Portnoy was a true league table dinosaur I am sure he would believe the team that wins the most matches should top the table.

On the contrary he seems to be a bonus point fan. I wonder why.


To be honest PSW when have Tigers been bummed by a 2nd division united as you call them? Unless you call a certain team a 2nd division united.

Oh come on you don't like losing to anyone. Who does?

Btw I think Leicester are playing Saracens 15th September at Wembley. Outside the IWs. Portnoy you should over the moon. I am sure you have an excuse up the sleeve ready to use if you lose though.

beshocked wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

gowales wrote:Premiership Rugby should probably look at changing the fixtures so the top 4 sides don't clash during these periods.

In theory yes , you want the top fixtures played by full strength sides ...but ...
Firstly you dont know who the top 4 teams are in advance ( well you know one of them.....)
Secondly its usually the smaller teams that bumming Tigers during the international periods that annoy the fans, losing to Sarries/Quins/Whoever takes the jeff cup that year is by the by and callups cangt really be blamed for it. Its getting beaten by second division united because they can only afford Tongans thats annoying.




In Portnoys defence he always held that Tigers (or whoever else) werent winning the Jeff when they sneaked in the playoffs and won the final. He has consistently been a league table dinosaur.He may be a curmudgeon, but an open one.

If Portnoy was a true league table dinosaur I am sure he would believe the team that wins the most matches should top the table.

On the contrary he seems to be a bonus point fan. I wonder why.


To be honest PSW when have Tigers been bummed by a 2nd division united as you call them? Unless you call a certain team a 2nd division united.

Oh come on you don't like losing to anyone. Who does?

Btw I think Leicester are playing Saracens 15th September at Wembley. Outside the IWs. Portnoy you should over the moon. I am sure you have an excuse up the sleeve ready to use if you lose though.

beshocked, I refer you to Portnoy's earlier article regarding injuries to Tigers players in the service of England - nuff said!

beshocked wrote:








Btw I think Leicester are playing Saracens 15th September at Wembley. Outside the IWs. Portnoy you should over the moon. I am sure you have an excuse up the sleeve ready to use if you lose though.

Do you have advance notice of the fixtures? Thought they were released at lunchtime today.

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote:








Btw I think Leicester are playing Saracens 15th September at Wembley. Outside the IWs. Portnoy you should over the moon. I am sure you have an excuse up the sleeve ready to use if you lose though.

Do you have advance notice of the fixtures? Thought they were released at lunchtime today.

No I don't. Information about prospective match at Wembley has been around for ages.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Wembley-appearance-lined-Leicester-Tigers/story-16162140-detail/story.html

It hasn't been officially confirmed yet but would expect it this lunch time with the fixture list.

I am very confident this will happen.

beshocked wrote:

To be honest PSW when have Tigers been bummed by a 2nd division united as you call them? Unless you call a certain team a 2nd division united.

Sat 3 Sep 15:00 PR Leicester Tigers 28 - 30 Exeter Chiefs Welford Road 18,251
Sun 11 Sep 14:15 PR London Wasps 35 - 29 Leicester Tigers Adams Park 5,078
Sat 17 Sep 15:05 PR Newcastle Falcons 26 - 27 Leicester Tigers Kingston Park 4,214
Sat 24 Sep 14:30 PR Leicester Tigers 25 - 50 Saracens Welford Road 17,557
October 2011
Sat 1 Oct 15:15 PR Bath Rugby 26 - 25 Leicester Tigers Recreation Ground 11,768
Sat 15 Oct 18:00 LVC-P2,P3 Scarlets 31 - 3 Leicester Tigers Parc y Scarlets 6,314

I removed the loss to Quins from that because they are a team worthy of respect.

PSW - and that was a real kicking you took at PYS to lowly rabo side that were missing something like 11 or 12 players to RWC duty!!!!

beshocked wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote:








Btw I think Leicester are playing Saracens 15th September at Wembley. Outside the IWs. Portnoy you should over the moon. I am sure you have an excuse up the sleeve ready to use if you lose though.

Do you have advance notice of the fixtures? Thought they were released at lunchtime today.

No I don't. Information about prospective match at Wembley has been around for ages.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Wembley-appearance-lined-Leicester-Tigers/story-16162140-detail/story.html

It hasn't been officially confirmed yet but would expect it this lunch time with the fixture list.

I am very confident this will happen.

Interesting. I have no problems playing Sarries at Wembley. Presumably that means:
Fixtures are pre-announced to clubs or there is a modicum of fixture-rigging going on?

Portnoy wrote:

beshocked wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

beshocked wrote:








Btw I think Leicester are playing Saracens 15th September at Wembley. Outside the IWs. Portnoy you should over the moon. I am sure you have an excuse up the sleeve ready to use if you lose though.

Do you have advance notice of the fixtures? Thought they were released at lunchtime today.

No I don't. Information about prospective match at Wembley has been around for ages.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Wembley-appearance-lined-Leicester-Tigers/story-16162140-detail/story.html

It hasn't been officially confirmed yet but would expect it this lunch time with the fixture list.

I am very confident this will happen.

Interesting. I have no problems playing Sarries at Wembley. Presumably that means:
Fixtures are pre-announced to clubs or there is a modicum of fixture-rigging going on?

Cue a further article decrying anti-Tigers-bias

Funny. Quins are a team worthy of respect but Saracens aren't in your opinion.

Oh you are being serious?

Ok I'll analyse those results.

Exeter -full strength, came 5th in the AP, very respectable, everyone's 2nd favourite team.

Wasps - a mighty side with a very proud history, away from home.

Newcastle Falcons - you won - away from home I should add.

Saracens - you lost to the English champions of 2010/11 who had a decent team out. No shame in that. The only true bumming on the list but it was a Leicester side missing how many players (been told too many times but still can't remember, silly me!)

Bath - a quality side on their day. An away game. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Scarlets - Low value cup game. Seriously who cares?


Are you seriously telling me losing to Quins is ok? Is it because you have beaten them so many times they aren't under the skin yet?

beshocked wrote: Funny. Quins are a team worthy of respect but Saracens aren't in your opinion.

Oh you are being serious?

Ok I'll analyse those results.

Exeter -full strength, came 5th in the AP, very respectable, everyone's 2nd favourite team.

Wasps - a mighty side with a very proud history, away from home.

Newcastle Falcons - you won - away from home I should add.

Saracens - you lost to the English champions of 2010/11 who had a decent team out. No shame in that. The only true bumming on the list but it was a Leicester side missing how many players (been told too many times but still can't remember, silly me!)

Bath - a quality side on their day. An away game. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Scarlets - Low value cup game. Seriously who cares?


Are you seriously telling me losing to Quins is ok? Is it because you have beaten them so many times they aren't under the skin yet?

2,594,736.00

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

beshocked wrote: Funny. Quins are a team worthy of respect but Saracens aren't in your opinion.

Oh you are being serious?

Ok I'll analyse those results.

Exeter -full strength, came 5th in the AP, very respectable, everyone's 2nd favourite team.

Wasps - a mighty side with a very proud history, away from home.

Newcastle Falcons - you won - away from home I should add.

Saracens - you lost to the English champions of 2010/11 who had a decent team out. No shame in that. The only true bumming on the list but it was a Leicester side missing how many players (been told too many times but still can't remember, silly me!)

Bath - a quality side on their day. An away game. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Scarlets - Low value cup game. Seriously who cares?


Are you seriously telling me losing to Quins is ok? Is it because you have beaten them so many times they aren't under the skin yet?

2,594,736.00

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Couldn't remember knew it was around that number but thought I might have missed someone.

www.eticketing.co.uk

No sign of the fixture there currently.

Strange. It will be stranger still if the fixture on 15 September appears after the official announcement.

PSW - and that was a real kicking you took at PYS to lowly rabo side that were missing something like 11 or 12 players to RWC duty!!!!

To be fair SS that was pretty much a Tigers academy side. The team from that day:

15 Niall Morris - 3rd choice 15
14 Ed Rolston - Loughborough Uni Student on Trial
13 Andy Forsyth - 6th choice centre
12 Andy Symons - 7th choice centre
11 Alex Lewington - 6th choice wing
10 George Ford - 3rd choice 10 (at that point)
9 Sam Harrison - 4th choice 9 (at that point)
1 Jonny Harris - 4th choice loosehead
2 Rob Hawkins - 2nd soon to be 3rd choice hooker
3 Ryan Bower - 4th choice tighthead
4 Graham Kitchener - 4th choice lock
5 Geoff Parling - recovering from injury
6 Ben Pienaar - way down pecking order now released
7 Tom Armes - way down pecking order now released (shame I thought he might make it)
8 Ed Slater - lock playing out of position

16 Tom Youngs
17 Peter Bucknall
18 Fraser Balmain - England under 18 international farmed out on loan to Clermont for rest of the season
19 George Skivington
20 Richard de Carpentier - former student now in A Team
21 James Grindal
22 Jeremy Staunton
23 Dante Mama - Loughborough Student on Trial

They were awful that night and compeltely out classed but it was a good learning experience for so many of them. Particularly in the backs where the half backs, Forsyth and Lewington really started to up their game after that performance, must have been a handy wake up call or a really strong word from Cockers.

Interesting. I have no problems playing Sarries at Wembley. Presumably that means:
Fixtures are pre-announced to clubs or there is a modicum of fixture-rigging going on?

Of course there is a degree of fixture planning Portnoy. There's the whole working around the footballers, guarenting some good action over the Xmas break and of course making sure the two London Double Headers go ahead as planned.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Leicester-Tigers-look-set-away-day-season-opener/story-16477284-detail/story.html

This is not new news.

Portnoy isn't this what you want though? A game of two of the top English sides outside the IW?

I agree Sam. It's about planning.