The Leicester Tigers thread

[Portnoy]

First topic message reminder :

2012/3 may well prove to be a memorable one.

For once, there seems to be (albeit not unplumbable) strength in depth, a fairly healthy squad and a straightforward, uncomplicated international season.

[Portnoy]

Genuine question, not designed as a WUM, but proportionally do Tigers have more injuries than other clubs? I ask because Tigers injury list there does look quite long, but they do have a bigger squad, so there is an argument that the more players you have the more injuries you are likely to get.

What percentage of their playing resources is it that are currently injured?

In the past (say a couple of seasons back), there was a tendency for the Tigers to accrue an alarming number of injuries on the training paddock etc. and that trend appears to have fallen back significantly.

But I wouldn't be surprised that Deacon's was due to training in some way. But that I thik is the only one that can be include on Sam's list
1.Ayerza - International duty with Argentina
4.Deacon - shoulder surgery
5.Slater - knee injury
6.Croft - neck injury
7.Woods - wrist injury
8.Newby - knee injury
9.Youngs - shoulder injury
11.Benjamin - toe surgery
15.Tait - groin injury (back in training but likely to only be in the A side to begin with as they want to slowly build up his fitness)

Don't know (didn't even know about) Benjamin though.

[formerly known as Sam]

Genuine question, not designed as a WUM, but proportionally do Tigers have more injuries than other clubs? I ask because Tigers injury list there does look quite long, but they do have a bigger squad, so there is an argument that the more players you have the more injuries you are likely to get.

What percentage of their playing resources is it that are currently injured?

Not sure, depends where they draw the line on who is academy and who is first team ahead of this season. The website still hasn't updated the first team or academy page so it's not clear who has been promoted or released.

Ayerza is injured but Tigers have got another 3 looseheads in the squad in Stankovitch, Mulipola and Harris. Stanko is still technically injured (though supposedly back soon) so 50% of the loosehead resources are down 40% of the specialist locks and about a third of the first team backrowers.

As a basic estimation I'd say we have 45 players in the first team so roughly 22% of the squad is injured (those 9 plus Stanko). That's not including academy scrum half and normal 4th choice 9 Scott Steele who is currently injured as well.

If we could get one of the locks fit it probably wouldn't be to bad.

Of those injured in training I think it's Deacon, Newby and Benjamin. Though Newby has on going issues with his knees so it might have been a more routine bit of surgery then a definite injury. Woods injured his wrist a while a go in a game and despite surgery it's not quite right, Slater I think limped off sometime in March/April time, Croft did his neck against Quins, I think Stanko suffered with his shoulder against Bath in the LV and then soon after had surgery so not sure there, Youngs vs SA and Tait warming up for a game late Sept early Oct and just pulled up.

[Ozzy3213]

I am sure that I read somewhere last season that as a rule most pro clubs worldwide run with about 20% of the squad injured at any given time these days.

That is actually a terrible statistic really and I would hope that there is plenty of research going into how/why injuries occur and ways of minimising frequency and severity.

[Portnoy]

Possibly the main concern is not the injury in itself. But allowing the requisite recovery time. I don't really buy into the reports that Wilko had unrelated injuries during his lost years. I have the dread feeling that he was pressed back into service too heavily too early. It may well be the case that the major culprit was Johnny himself rather than Newcastle/England.

Who knows? But a number of players who recover from injury A only to break down on injury B on the recovery trail/soon after their return.

Apart from Sam's list (good ain't he?), I can think of Lawes straight away.

[formerly known as Sam]

That is actually a terrible statistic really and I would hope that there is plenty of research going into how/why injuries occur and ways of minimising frequency and severity

Tigers have been doing that with the two Leicester Unis for a while now. There's going to a fancy medical unit under the new Crumbie as well whenever they get round to building it that is supposed to be being developed with the Uni of's medical school.

It's not the number of injuries Ozzy, it just tends to be important players that get injured at annoying times. Like Flood getting injured just before the playoffs or just before the big HEC match with Ulster. Ditto Deacon and Manu before the Ulster game as well.

[Ozzy3213]

What is Flood's injury history like with you guys? He often strikes me as looking a little brittle, but I don't know if that is borne out by how often he misses games through injury?

[Notch]

Hey guys; how would you feel if you were going up against this Ulster side at the weekend?

Because it looks like none of them will be available!

1. Tom Court (injury/rested by IRFU)
2. Rory Best (rested by IRFU)
3. Declan Fitzpatrick (rested by IRFU)
4. Dan Tuohy (rested by IRFU)
5. Nick Williams (UK Visa Issues)
6. Stephen Ferris (injury/rested by IRFU)
7. Chris Henry (rested by IRFU)
8. Roger Wilson (injury)
9. Paul Marshall (injury)
10. Ruan Pienaar (International Duty)
11. Andrew Trimble (rested by IRFU)
12. Paddy Wallace (injury)
13. Darren Cave (rested by IRFU)
14. Nevin Spence (injury)
15. Tommy Bowe (injury/rested by IRFU)

Still think we'll win though! Hopefully that is sufficient bait to reel in Portnoys with one of his famous complaints

[Sgt_Pooly]

It's not like you play any of those in the Rabo anyway..........

Positives of playing in a non competitive league.

[yappysnap]

Don't worry you'll still have a few South Africans to field on Sat.

[Notch]

Don't be silly now Sgt. Pooly. I don't think the guys who play in the Pro12 would describe it as non-competitive!

[Sgt_Pooly]

Maybe low quality/sub standard would have been a better term.

[Notch]

Think you should wait and see how the Mighty Tigers fare against our second, third string before you say that

[formerly known as Sam]

What is Flood's injury history like with you guys? He often strikes me as looking a little brittle, but I don't know if that is borne out by how often he misses games through injury?

Most his injuries with us seem to stem from the knee injury he suffered a while back. It was pretty nasty and occasionally he will tweak the muscle in that leg or twist it and then be out for a few weeks. He missed about a month and a half through injury last season it was just an unfortunate time to be injured.

In general terms he is quite a big number 10 and puts up with quite a lot of punishment. Quite often he is targeted off the ball and he stands up to it all pretty well, the AP Semi vs Saints the other year being a good example. He took three cheap shots off the ball early on and after the third lost his temper and clocked Hartley. That sorted out the problem for the rest of the game.

Hey guys; how would you feel if you were going up against this Ulster side at the weekend?

Pretty similar to Tigers last weekend then. We were unable to field:

1.Ayerza
2.T Youngs
3.Cole
4.Deacon
5.Parling
6.Croft
7.Newby
8.Waldrom
9.B Youngs
10.Flood
11.Benjamin
12.Allen
13.Manu
14.Tait
15.Forsyth

It happens in pre season.

[Sgt_Pooly]

I prefer Ulster to Tigers Notch, hope you do stuff them!

[Portnoy]

Here's the flag of the IRFU

Spoiler:

[formerly known as Sam]

I prefer Ulster to Tigers Notch, hope you do stuff them!

Thanks, . To be honest I couldn't care less about the result, as long as we pick up no more injuries and the lads get a good run out that's fine.

[Portnoy]

Correct Sam. So long as the Tigers get at best grudging respect, then I suppose that not everything is wrong at WR.

[Ozzy3213]

Pretty similar to Tigers last weekend then. We were unable to field:

1.Ayerza
2.T Youngs
3.Cole
4.Deacon
5.Parling
6.Croft
7.Newby
8.Waldrom
9.B Youngs
10.Flood
11.Benjamin
12.Allen
13.Manu
14.Tait
15.Forsyth

It happens in pre season.

Why were you not able to field T.Youngs, Cole, Parling, Waldrom, Allen and Manu? They weren't injured were they?

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Genuine question, not designed as a WUM, but proportionally do Tigers have more injuries than other clubs?

They signed Tait so by default yes.

Its often a bit misleading in the off season, some of those players will be coming back from surgery or rehabilitation of injuries sustained during the previous season or rested for ones that they might ignore during the season (or lie to the coaches about).
Pretty much everyone will be carrying some kind of recurrent issue.]

I do worry about Murphy though, his injury history over the last few years has been pretty bad.

[Scrumdown]

Maybe low quality/sub standard would have been a better term.

Home of the heineken cup winners and grand slam winners would have sufficed.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Yea something like that........

[Notch]

Oh sheit, looks like you've started a WUMfest on this thread Sarge. Well done.

Long arguments about the merits of the Pro12 vs Premiership are so edifying and not at all circular or pointless

I love how the IRFU is North Korea for ensuring players get a holiday each summer. Sounds more like 'good employer' to me! Of course it makes sense for players to play year round without a break. What possible downside could there be?

Sam, I'm just hoping for a good game. I'm excited about the match and think it will be quite close. It's a good chance for a lot of guys. And of course a similar team to the one we'll field on Saturday did really well in Bayonne.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Swings and roundabouts Notch.

The Celts have some fantastic teams but I'll always think the Rabo is a bit of a Micky mouse league to be brutely honest.

Different thread and a different time me thinks.

[Portnoy]

Hopefully that is sufficient bait to reel in Portnoys with one of his famous complaints

If you go phishing Notch, don't be too excited if you catch a phish.

I love how the IRFU is North Korea for ensuring players get a holiday each summer. Sounds more like 'good employer' to me! Of course it makes sense for players to play year round without a break. What possible downside could there be?

Strangely when Cockerill says something similar to that, he's decried as a whinger.

p.s. when the teams are announced can we share posts on each of the relevant Tigers and Ulster threads?

Or on a separate Ulster/Tigers 'friendly'/bickering thread?

[Notch]

Ah Portnoys, it's all jokes. I'm just messing here. I do hope you make the trip to Ravenhill at some point in the future for a game that actually matters. I think you would enjoy the experience.

[Notch]

Swings and roundabouts Notch.

The Celts have some fantastic teams but I'll always think the Rabo is a bit of a Micky mouse league to be brutely honest.

Different thread and a different time me thinks.

I think so. That it's for a different thread. Not that the Rabo is a mickey mouse league.

Just get so bored with the arguments sometimes! Has anyone in the history of the internet ever just agreed to disagree?

You're a good man Sarge. Enjoy the season ahead

[Portnoy]

So long as I can join in the Jerusalem chorus no matter who's winning.

Actually no. You'll have to sing the slave spiritual seeing as we'll own you.

Some time I'll get there. I'd like a meet-up sometime.

Once they get some decent local real ale...

[Sgt_Pooly]

Aye you too Notch, I'll be cheering your boys on in the HC. Hoping Tommy is your missing link!

I'll be watching Falcons v Bedford

[formerly known as Sam]

Why were you not able to field T.Youngs, Cole, Parling, Waldrom, Allen and Manu? They weren't injured were they?

EPS de-brief, by the time they got down to Jersey there was not enough time to get them into training and ready to play on the Saturday.

I do worry about Murphy though, his injury history over the last few years has been pretty bad.

He has had no luck that is for certain. Managed all of last season and this season is his last so fingers crossed he can go out on a big injury free high. The club owe him that much at least, well really the club owe him the triple as a farewell but I'd take either of the AP or HEC as a fitting tribute to the Prem's best ever 15.

[Ozzy3213]

Why were you not able to field T.Youngs, Cole, Parling, Waldrom, Allen and Manu? They weren't injured were they?

EPS de-brief, by the time they got down to Jersey there was not enough time to get them into training and ready to play on the Saturday.

Sorry, but that's not a couldn't field them, that's a chose not to. Like I said, we had players at that tour de-brief as well, and they both turned out on Friday night.

[formerly known as Sam]

Sorry, but that's not a couldn't field them, that's a chose not to. Like I said, we had players at that tour de-brief as well, and they both turned out on Friday night.

You were playing at home in game played in quarters. The Tigers lads had to travel back up to Leicestershire (I think they said the camp was in Surrey) and then fly out to Jersey, at what point would it have been a good idea to have them play? Not trained with the squad all week and then spent a day travelling, we've got enough injuries.

[Ozzy3213]

I didn't say it was a good idea Sam, what I said was that they were available, and you chose not to field them, which is what happened. Had you wanted to play them you could have done.

[pjm1]

I didn't say it was a good idea Sam, what I said was that they were available, and you chose not to field them, which is what happened. Had you wanted to play them you could have done.

But that's no different from not fielding a player who is recovering from an injury. He can physically play - he won't put his old injury at risk, but is not match fit, so you don't.

Anyway, it's all semantics - the players weren't there, so they didn't play

[yappysnap]

To be fair with a squad of 50+ a few players not making a pre season game is hardly an issue.

[Portnoy]

Any idea of when the Tigers squad for the Belfast game will be announced?

12 noon I suspect - but why delay the announcement for a friendly?

[Kingshu]

Anyway Tigers fans looking forward to a return to Belfast.

Won't make it myself this time, but will be keeping an eye out or result and a good write up on it.

Hope that we meet again in a competative match later in the season at Ravenhill,

H-cup quater final anyone? would be great.

[formerly known as Sam]

H-cup quater final anyone? would be great

Certainly would. Hope it would be at Welford Rd though.

I won't be travelling over the Belfast, not sure how many Tigers fans will be. A fair few went down to Jersey last weekend but I don't know if that will be replicated again, I hope so as the offy normally has a write up or two from untelevised games if people have travelled.

[Portnoy]

Is see from the Tigers site that there is a cricket match planned for Sunday:

Craig Newby leads the Tigers XI, which is set to include club colleagues Toby Flood, Manu Tuilagi, Anthony Allen, Scott Hamilton, Sam Harrison, Matt Smith, Rob Hawkins and Ed Slater.

[formerly known as Sam]

Yep, one of the opposing teams is a team of guest players that includes Wayne "bowl it at his head" Barnes and director Sam Mendes.

Good to see Newby and Slater being able to get a bit of light exercise in during their recovery from knee injuries.

[Portnoy]

There is a video clip of the Ulster friendly posted up by Notch at http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19308408?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Naturally I was most interested in the pen try. My first impression was that Clancey got it wrong as Afoa never attempted to engage correctly in that he appeared to go in diagonally. Nonetheless it was a worrying start for Castro.

Mind having said that our third try looked a bit iffy as the maul formation at the line-out looked like Waldrom carried the ball into his waiting wall of forwards. What do you think?

[JmD]

There is a video clip of the Ulster friendly posted up by Notch at http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19308408?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Naturally I was most interested in the pen try. My first impression was that Clancey got it wrong as Afoa never attempted to engage correctly in that he appeared to go in diagonally. Nonetheless it was a worrying start for Castro.

Mind having said that our third try looked a bit iffy as the maul formation at the line-out looked like Waldrom carried the ball into his waiting wall of forwards. What do you think?

Castro had been in trouble in the scrums already, so Clancy probably just lost patience.

[Notch]

Why was Castro at loosehead? Is that something you're going to see more of when Ayerza is away?

I'm a big Castro fan but he struggled badly on the other side of the scrum. He never got to grips with either tighthead he came up against.

[Portnoy]

It is a bit odd Notch. But Sam (who is the scholar on this thread on counting the ducks and getting them in order)

Ayerza is injured but Tigers have got another 3 looseheads in the squad in Stankovitch, Mulipola and Harris.

Mulipola is awaiting arrival of his visa (other credit cards are available).
And he is very capable of dong the job. Don't know why Stanko didn't play though.

[formerly known as Sam]

Ayerza is injured

Or should read "Ayerza is on international duty" Stanko is currently sidelined and according to the radio this morning Mulipola should be back in the country this week. Stanko is supposed to be fit for the LW game but I don't think he's appeared in pre season so far. I would not like us to start the season minus a loosehead.

[rodders]

Very good game for a pre season friendly. Ulster were pretty dominant in scrum, particularly when Afoa was on the field. Scorching day at Ravenhill for a change.

Ulsters defence was excellent for most of the game and the young Ulster backline did extremely well against the much more experienced Tigers backline. Tuilagi looked pretty dangerous and full of running but was well marshalled and even fumbled a few times in the face of some very physical defence.

Ulsters attacking play was a bit lateral and predictable at times and Jarod Payne (who looked fairly rusty) forced a few silly offloads but overall a very good workout for both teams. Delighted with the performances of most of the Ulster 2nd/3rd tier guys who really stepped up to the mark.

[formerly known as Sam]

Tuilagi looked pretty dangerous and full of running but was well marshalled and even fumbled a few times

Not a massive suprise, Cockers was grumbling that this was only week three in the England boys pre season. Should imagine they were all pretty rusty. A nice physical contact to knock some of the rust off was more important than anything else.

A tad worrying for Tigers is the lack of grunt in that second row, Parling/Mafi is not a big shoving lock combination and will only highlight our issues with missing looseheads unless we do something about it.

How did Ford look when he came on? From the scant highlights available he looked assured.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Ayerza is injured

Or should read "Ayerza is on international duty" Stanko is currently sidelined and according to the radio this morning Mulipola should be back in the country this week. Stanko is supposed to be fit for the LW game but I don't think he's appeared in pre season so far. I would not like us to start the season minus a loosehead.

Fortunately, as you mention, Tigers have a first round bye in the premiership so have an extra week of preseason warm ups before they face any proper opposition. Stanko and King Logo have the LW game to get themselves "back in". The squad was planned on the understanding that Ayerza would be missing for this period.

[Notch]

Yes, Ford did well. Leicesters biggest problem in general was a lack of creativity in the centres and a lack of good running lines in general behind the scrum. No problem with 10. Tuilagi should pass the ball every once in a while.

Leicesters best attacking move was the sweep that led to Gonevas try. Very cleverly put together but Blane McIlroy was sleeping. He needed to be covering Goneva but reacted too slowly and left himself with too much to do. Heaney looks a much safer bet to me.

Ulster were also quite pedestrian in attack much of the time, hence the low scoreline. Would be a bigger concern for Leicester though as Ulster have a number of outside backs to return. Both teams will be very happy with how they defended.

Best two attacking moves of the game for Ulster were in the last few minutes with Farrells lovely inside ball to Cochrane picking a good line and the Nelsons blistering solo break which nearly resulted in a try.

[formerly known as Sam]

I'm not to worried with the centres at the minute. It was their first games of pre season with new wingers outside Manu (who famously has trust issues with wingers he doesn't know or rate). Allen normally takes a couple of games to get back up to form, he likes to be settled before showing his best rugby. Neither have much experience playing with Ford either (something which needs to be changed as Ford is the future), the AP final was sadly a good example of the centres struggling with Ford's flat play and late delivery. Bowden is still to come in at 12 as well and he can inject something creative when required.

Goneva seems to be quite explosive. He seemed to catch the Jersey winger napping in the first friendly as he burst through as well. I'm starting to think he might actually be a clever signing and for once we'll have a winger with rapid acceleration (it's been a while).

Got to say the Cochrane try was a worry, Hawkins should have made that tackle all day but seemed hesitant. The strapping around the elbow looked pretty chunky, I have a nagging fear that the scum bag Clark has done lasting damage.

[beshocked]

Ayerza is injured

Or should read "Ayerza is on international duty" Stanko is currently sidelined and according to the radio this morning Mulipola should be back in the country this week. Stanko is supposed to be fit for the LW game but I don't think he's appeared in pre season so far. I would not like us to start the season minus a loosehead.

Fortunately, as you mention, Tigers have a first round bye in the premiership so have an extra week of preseason warm ups before they face any proper opposition. Stanko and King Logo have the LW game to get themselves "back in". The squad was planned on the understanding that Ayerza would be missing for this period.

Tigers still need to notch up the try bonus vs LW. Should do it but a bit of rustiness might make it harder.

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