The Leicester Tigers thread

[Portnoy]

First topic message reminder :

2012/3 may well prove to be a memorable one.

For once, there seems to be (albeit not unplumbable) strength in depth, a fairly healthy squad and a straightforward, uncomplicated international season.

[formerly known as Sam]

They certainly do Beshocked, they need to get the momentum going quickly this year as games against Quins and Sarries comes soon after the LW one.

PSW, Ayerza's absence was taken into account. Stanko, however, was supposed to be back by now as he had his shoulder surgery brought forward to make sure he was. Mulipola wasn't supposed to be stranded in Ireland waiting for a visa either.

[yappysnap]

I'm not to worried with the centres at the minute. It was their first games of pre season with new wingers outside Manu (who famously has trust issues with wingers he doesn't know or rate). Allen normally takes a couple of games to get back up to form, he likes to be settled before showing his best rugby. Neither have much experience playing with Ford either (something which needs to be changed as Ford is the future), the AP final was sadly a good example of the centres struggling with Ford's flat play and late delivery. Bowden is still to come in at 12 as well and he can inject something creative when required.

Goneva seems to be quite explosive. He seemed to catch the Jersey winger napping in the first friendly as he burst through as well. I'm starting to think he might actually be a clever signing and for once we'll have a winger with rapid acceleration (it's been a while).

Got to say the Cochrane try was a worry, Hawkins should have made that tackle all day but seemed hesitant. The strapping around the elbow looked pretty chunky, I have a nagging fear that the scum bag Clark has done lasting damage.

I thought all the Tigers fans agreed that Allan was massively underrated and perfect at 12 so you definitely didn't need a 12 who could pass or kick? At least that is what I got from last season when ever we questioned the absence of another centre.

[yappysnap]

It'll be scary if Tigers have found some wingers with pace and some actual hunger for the ball.

You looked a lot more threatening in that brief stint with the Oz winger at 11 then in a long time and your new wing (Geneoa?) could replicate that.

And you still have Tait, Benjamin and that LI wing to come.

[formerly known as Sam]

Yeah Goneva looks like a really handy signing, we certainly have missed having an explosive winger since that brief stint from Tiquiri as he was just class (once we'd got him fit enough anyway). Benjamin and Thompstone will offer good work rates along with power and pace so will be pretty handy. It's Tait and academy graduate Lewington that offer something different, both are good footballers with pace and Tait can create something from nothing. If we can sort out hooker and the second row enforcer we could have a really good season.

I thought all the Tigers fans agreed that Allan was massively underrated and perfect at 12 so you definitely didn't need a 12 who could pass or kick? At least that is what I got from last season when ever we questioned the absence of another centre.

He is, a lot of us would have been happy to see more of Twelvetrees as well though. I certainly felt we messed it up and didn't go for the horses for courses strategy as often as we should have done. Particularly in games where we should have been looking to get the TBP, starting Twelvetrees made sense where as in the games where we needed some defensive reinforcement (like against Quins) then bring in Allen.

[Geordie]

If we can sort out hooker

I thought Youngs was all set to do that....

[yappysnap]

Yea if you Tigers can manage to get something like a 90% first choice team for a run of games then I can see you causing everyone in all comps serious problems.

As long as we're not playing you then it's really exciting, especially if Quins and Tigers can make a proper impact in Europe.

[yappysnap]

If we can sort out hooker

I thought Youngs was all set to do that....

I think he will do especially as there's a lot of talent in positions around him too which will help bring him on

[Portnoy]

At least (at last) the Tigers' website has been updated. As ever they always seem to leave it very late to make changes. This can only have been updated in the last ten days or so.

http://www.leicestertigers.com/rugby/leicester_tigers_senior_squad.php

(43 players)

Does that mean that Joost's rumoured signing has been abandoned?

[formerly known as Sam]

I thought Youngs was all set to do that....

What is slightly worrying GF is that there is now a lot of pressure on his shoulders. Chuter is largely passed it, Stevens is barely out the academy and Hawkins lacks physicality (and possibily will have fitness issues). We really need Tom Youngs to get his throwing nailed down.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

if a hooker cant take pressure on his shoulders he should consider a career outside the front row of a scrum

[yappysnap]

[bluestonevedder]

I reckon Youngs will do fine this season. He's had a lot of help in the England camp with his throwing, and he already looked a little better (but still not test standard) during the summer games. He's had even longer now to learn the art of throwing, so I expect him to have improved. Out of the whole TIgers squad, he's probably the player i'm most excited to watch play this season...

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

He's had even longer now to learn the art of throwing, so I expect him to have improved.

Apparently his throwing was dreadful in the Ulster game

[yappysnap]

I'm quite excited to see Tuilagi pass the ball, it's been two seasons coming and when it happens I think it'll be the highlight of the season.

[Sgt_Pooly]

I'm quite excited to see Tuilagi pass the ball, it's been two seasons coming and when it happens I think it'll be the highlight of the season.

I don't think we'll see a Tuilagi pass this season, I think he's building up for 2015

[yappysnap]

That's true, he does need to trust wingers before he gives them is ball

[Geordie]

Maybe he could play hooker?

[bluestonevedder]

I'm quite excited to see Tuilagi pass the ball, it's been two seasons coming and when it happens I think it'll be the highlight of the season.

[bluestonevedder]

He's had even longer now to learn the art of throwing, so I expect him to have improved.

Apparently his throwing was dreadful in the Ulster game

Oh really? Have to admit, I haven't seen the game or read the reviews. Did you manage to catch it Pete?

[formerly known as Sam]

That's true, he does need to trust wingers before he gives them is ball

He never had any problems passing to his brother or Geordan but other wingers (in particular Strettle for England) he seems to not trust and so he backs himself to make more of an impact ball in hand. Hopefully Goneva, Benjamin and Thompstone all being big blokes who have pace will earn his respect quickly and so be deemed worthy of a pass.

Oh really? Have to admit, I haven't seen the game or read the reviews. Did you manage to catch it Pete?

There's a rather pesimistic review on the offy forum. Not suprising really given that half the people who post on the offy forum are real doom and gloom merchants. In the local paper today there's a couple of references to the EPS boys doing hard conditioning work right up to the day before the game due to the lack of pre season training they've had so far. Maybe his arms were just knackered from weights training the day before.

[bluestonevedder]

Let's hope so Sam. Seen a few articles regarding the England boys' training, and it seems Lancaster's really striving for improved fitness. Hopefully we'll see an improved workrate from all the players in the AIs. Not to say that their work rate over the summer wasn't great, because at times it was, but rather it wasn't consistent throughout the whole match.

[yappysnap]

Surprisingly regarding the fitness over the summer the last 20 was usually played at the highest tempo which i'd normally put down as a mark of very good fitness. But the 60 minutes before that we always seemed off the boil so maybe it's more about managing ourselves better over the game.

[formerly known as Sam]

Yappy the teams were not particularly consistent so it may well have taken time over the course of the game to adapt and form units. Take the centres for instance, Manu/Barritt in the first test had only played together two or three times together previously and then in the second and third tests new unit with Manu/Joseph and that was a very different dynamic. Similar went on in the backrow, backthree, half backs and second row. The teams who have stable units are often the most consistent.

[bluestonevedder]

True Yappy. England did seem to play their best rugby in the last quarter of a game. Just look at Foden's last gasp try in the first test- if I recall, that was the first propr backs move we executed! Whether it was due to SA's exhaustion, it's unknown.

[yappysnap]

I guess we'll see this Autumn if it's paid off or not.

Sam at a guess how many guys do you think Tigers will lose to the AI's this year?

I can see Quins losing:
Marler
Gray
Robshaw
Care
JTH
Brown

I think all those are in the EPS and all should be called up for the training squad at least (JTH and Gray will probably return for Quins actual games).

Are there Saxons games this Autumn? If so we could also lose Brooker, Robson, Lowe and Hopper.

So that's probably 6 first teamers and no replacements unless the Saxons play.

[formerly known as Sam]

No Saxons games in the Autumn Yappy.

Tigers could lose Tom and Ben Youngs, Cole, Deacon, Parling, Croft, one of Waldrom or Crane, Flood, Manu. There's also the chance Allen or one of the wingers will be called up as well. It will all depend on injuries and form. Not sure all of them will see game time though, mind you same could be said of your Quins list.

[yappysnap]

I'd say you're almost definitely looking at losing 7 of those players to the squad at least, only three that probably wont be picked are Deacon and then either both or one of Crane/Waldrom will be left out.

Can't see you losing any wingers, we already know that after the current incumbents there are Wade, Joseph and Sharples and for some reason English coaches seem terrified of dropping in new wingers until injury forces their hand.

So we should be pretty evenly hit then.

[formerly known as Sam]

If Deacon is fit I think he may well go into the squad. Lawes is broken every five minutes (sort of like Deacon actually) and Lancaster seems to want to do away with the lumbering Botha.

Waldrom is in posession of the 8 shirt and Lancaster went on and on about having to earn the shirt back when Flood was playing second fiddle to Farrell. We'll find out if that is true for Morgan or whether it only applies when Lancaster's mate's son is in the team. To be honest I'd take Crane over Morgan or Waldrom, then again I'd take Easter over Morgan and Waldrom as well.

Wingers seem up in the air. Sharples hasn't played for England under Lancaster yet, Wade was left in the mid week team and Joseph has played more games at centre.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

No Saxons games in the Autumn Yappy.

Tigers could lose Tom and Ben Youngs, Cole, Deacon, Parling, Croft, one of Waldrom or Crane, Flood, Manu. There's also the chance Allen or one of the wingers will be called up as well. It will all depend on injuries and form. Not sure all of them will see game time though, mind you same could be said of your Quins list.

Wont Castro and Ayerza also be busy during the AIs?

[bluestonevedder]

If Deacon is fit I think he may well go into the squad. Lawes is broken every five minutes (sort of like Deacon actually) and Lancaster seems to want to do away with the lumbering Botha.

Waldrom is in posession of the 8 shirt and Lancaster went on and on about having to earn the shirt back when Flood was playing second fiddle to Farrell. We'll find out if that is true for Morgan or whether it only applies when Lancaster's mate's son is in the team. To be honest I'd take Crane over Morgan or Waldrom, then again I'd take Easter over Morgan and Waldrom as well.

Wingers seem up in the air. Sharples hasn't played for England under Lancaster yet, Wade was left in the mid week team and Joseph has played more games at centre.

Sharples started on the wing against France in the 6 Nations, replacing the injured Strettle. Very lively indeed, and showed his pace. Defensively a little worrying.

[yappysnap]

I think you may be a little dissapointed when we see what happens to Waldrom compared to the Flood situation then Sam.

But to be fair Waldrom has had one game at 8 in what was at least partially an experimental side, in Lancasters view Morgan may still be the man in possesion but he just realised he needed a rest.

I think now that Farrel snr is back in the fold we might all see a lot more of jnr as well, unlucky Flood. (glum face).

[formerly known as Sam]

I think you may be a little dissapointed when we see what happens to Waldrom compared to the Flood situation then Sam

Not really disappointed, Waldrom is the second best 8 at Tigers he isn't the best 8 in England. Morgan was just very poor in SA, he needs a firm size 10 to his backside if he wants to get into the England shirt.

Wont Castro and Ayerza also be busy during the AIs?

Possibly Mafi (Tonga), Goneva (Fiji) and Mulipola (Samoa) as well. I was only going for the England contingent. Though Ford could be added to the list of possibilities as Lancaster originally wanted him on the tour to SA.

[Portnoy]

Will tigers put out a decidedly second-string team for the Nottigham game?

Or is there a good case for further practice for higher profile players.

Personally I think that there is a case to trial-run of the top-squad as the next game presents a potentially embarrassing banana-skin at the Kassam where the Tigers will (I think be expected to secure a bonus point and at least 50 on the scoreboard).

But I wouldn't want to embarrass Nottingham by using them as canon fodder.

[formerly known as Sam]

I'd like to see them mix it up a bit but keep the key partnerships working together. Start the first choice front row with the academy locks, mix and match the backrow, back up half backs, first choice centres, mix and match the back three for the first half. Second half back up front row, first choice locks, mix and match backrow, first choice half backs, second choice centres and then mix and match the back three again.

Something like:

First half / second half

1.Mulipola / Stankovitch
2.T Youngs / Hawkins
3.Cole / Castro
4.Andrew / Kitchener
5.Cain / Parling
6.Mafi / B Deacon
7.Thrope / Salvi
8.Crane / Waldrom
9.Young / Harrison
10.Ford / Flood
11.Lewington / Hamilton
12.Allen / Symons
13.Manu / Smith
14.Thompstone / Goneva
15.Murphy / Morris

[Portnoy]

Yes Sam. But you have to respect the visitors. Indeed Tigers could play all those players and essentially just test out combinations. There are clear benefits to the Nottingham crowd by seeing some stars.

But that team is equally likely to deliver a crushing away victory - which is to my mind disrespectful to the hosts in a friendly.

[bluestonevedder]

Yes Sam. But you have to respect the visitors. Indeed Tigers could play all those players and essentially just test out combinations. There are clear benefits to the Nottingham crowd by seeing some stars.

But that team is equally likely to deliver a crushing away victory - which is to my mind disrespectful to the hosts in a friendly.

Especially considering the loss of one of their young talents last week- Mitchell Todd.

I agree with PSW. I think this game should be more about trying combinations of players rather than seeking a crushing victory. I would rather lots of shifting around in the team lineup, and as long as the crowd get to see some exciting rugby and a few big names, I think they'd be happy.

[Portnoy]

Yes Sam. But you have to respect the visitors. Indeed Tigers could play all those players and essentially just test out combinations. There are clear benefits to the Nottingham crowd by seeing some stars.

But that team is equally likely to deliver a crushing away victory - which is to my mind disrespectful to the hosts in a friendly.

Especially considering the loss of one of their young talents last week- Mitchell Todd.

I agree with PSW. I think this game should be more about trying combinations of players rather than seeking a crushing victory. I would rather lots of shifting around in the team lineup, and as long as the crowd get to see some exciting rugby and a few big names, I think they'd be happy.

The cities are ~ 30 miles apart.
Tigers have a players loan/share/development arrangement with Nottingham and have a long-term bond.

Both sets of supporters will expect Tigers' win.
I suspect that Nottingham supporters will want to see some Leicester 'stars' and some Tigers' visitors will want to see some combinations tested.

But underpinning all this is the inter-club relationships at management level.
Whilst Leicester shouldn't 'do a Leinster' and pitch up with a shadow side, neither should they do damage to their host's Championship aspirations.

I can only conclude that the Tigers should take only the first 30-40 minutes seriously.

[formerly known as Sam]

We crush Nottingham every year, they expect it. Though we should probably play the 6 dual registered players against them, just so they see how good the players they are getting are.

But that team is equally likely to deliver a crushing away victory - which is to my mind disrespectful to the hosts in a friendly.

It's being played at Welford Road for a change.

[Portnoy]

It's being played at Welford Road for a change.

Yes. I knew that. But then I forgot that I knew it.
Still these local club friendlies should be respected.

Enjoy anyway.

btw, Does any Jeff club have partner links with Cov?

[formerly known as Sam]

Not since they went bankrupt.

[Portnoy]

Leicester Tigers squad
Forwards: Logovi'i Mulipola, Martin Castrogiovanni, Dan Cole, Fraser Balmain, Kieran Brookes, George Chuter, Rob Hawkins, Tom Youngs, Rob Andrew, Geoff Parling, Joe Cain, Steve Mafi, Brett Deacon, Richard Thorpe, Julian Salvi, Jordan Crane, Thomas Waldrom, Harry Wells
Backs: Micky Young, Sam Harrison, Pat Phibbs, Toby Flood, George Ford, Vereniki Goneva, Anthony Allen, Manu Tuilagi, Scott Hamilton, Geordan Murphy, Matt Smith, Niall Morris, Andy Symons, Alex Lewington

Nottingham include in their line-up a front row of former Tigers players in Matt Parr, Joe Duffey and Michael Holford, plus former Tigers Academy fly-half Rory Lynn at full-back.

Nottingham: 15 Rory Lynn, 14 Ryan Hough, 13 Tim Streather, 12 Joe Munro, 11 Rhys Crane, 10 James Arlidge, 9 Sean Romans; 1 Matt Parr, 2 Joe Duffey, 3 Michael Holford, 4 Joe Quinn, 5 Rupert Cooper, 6 Brent Wilson (c), 7 Tom Calladine, 8 Alex Shaw. Replacements: 16 Scott Wright, 17 Ryan Bower, 18 Morgan Robinson Eames, 19 Phil Eggleshaw, 20 Matt Shields, 21 Finlay Barnham, 22 David Priest, 23 Joe Cobden, 24 Jack Bradford

[LondonTiger]

I'm quite excited to see Tuilagi pass the ball, it's been two seasons coming and when it happens I think it'll be the highlight of the season.

Manu made 3 try scoring passes yesterday (though one was pulled back after Hamilton had touched down due to an infringement in midfield spotted by the TJ) and a try scoring offload during the 45 minutes he was on the pitch.

Opposition were outclassed though, so I guess I need to wait to the game v Worcester on the 8th to see how this "new" aspect to his play is panning out.

[yappysnap]

Good to hear LT, I was being a little tongue in cheek but if he has worked on that aspect of his game I have a little more hope for the AI's.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2012-13/rugby/story/168990.html

Cockerill states the obvious. The guys who missed the pre seasosn games wont play in the season opener.

Dan Bowden is in Billy twelvetrees position : 3rd choice fly half, second choice 12...needs to do something to prove he deserves selection ahead of Flood/Ford/Allen, will have to make do with occasional bench appearances till the injuries/internationals kick in

[LondonTiger]

Just a shame that Bowden, Thompstone and Benjamin were injured.

Goneva looked exceptional when we had possession - but his defensive positioning was poor. He left his post too often and his attempts to tackle were, well iffy at best. Hamilton meanwhile was everything we expect, really clever footballer but just a little slow.

Allen meanwhile again gave an Anthony Allen master class. Good defense, strong runs and tidy offloads - but no passing. All Tiger's best moves bypassed him entirely.

[Portnoy]

Mind you, Cockes appears to have built a squad that (despite Sky's predictions) should do the job in the Jeff and hopefully negotiate their way through a tough HEC pool.

[LondonTiger]

I agree Portnoy.

The squad is stronger than last year and without RWC distractions. Good rotation will hopefully mean we can have a fit and rested team come April/May and be in contention for trophies.

I have a good feeling about the first HC match down in toulouse - just a shame it is on the Sunday evening or I may well have gone.

[bluestonevedder]

Cockerhill reporting that young Ford has put on nearly 10 kg in mass this off season. Up from his original 79 kg when he got back from the JWC he is now at 88-89 kg. Excellent work. Hopefully he hasn't lost anyof his pace! Looking forward to seeing him play this season.

[formerly known as Sam]

With Thompstone, Benjamin and Bowden all being saved for the A League trip on Monday I'd have thought we'd have a starting team of:

1.Mulipola
2.T Youngs
3.Castro
4.Andrew
5.Parling
6.Mafi
7.Salvi
8.Waldrom
9.Young
10.Flood
11.Hamilton
12.Allen
13.Manu
14.Goneva
15.Murphy

Bench: Stanko, Hawkins, Cole, Crane, Thorpe, Harrison, Ford, Smith.

Young getting the nod over Harrison based on number of starts in pre season.

Goneva's defence looked good in the RWC, I wonder if he will just take a bit of time to adapt and settle in. Sounds like the A Team on Monday will be a strong one, I wonder if Matt Tait will make that squad as well.

A second string line up of:

9.Phibbs
10.Conrwall
11.Benjamin
12.Bowden
13.Tait
14.Thompstone
15.Morris

Would be a really good second backline with the likes of Symons and Lewington to come off the bench.

[LondonTiger]

Is Bobo fit Sam? There was no site of him at the weekend, hence why Balmain came on.

I would also expect, based on the weekend, to see Chuter on the bench ahead of Hawkins.

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