Man Utd thread

[Liam]

First topic message reminder :

There are a few Utd fans like myself on the board but like the LFC one set up, everyone are welcome to discuss Utd's results and news etc..

Playing Barca tomorrow night, only a pre-season game but would like to see Kagwa given a run out tomorrow night see what he's got against the best.

[TopHat24/7]

Its 25m more than anybody else.

Yes hes a fantastic player but they definitely overpaid lol.

What's it got to do with the price of any body else? Really don't understand the yardstick you're using to determine value.

How much is a League title worth? I'd wager more than £25m which is what you're saying the over-paid by by virtue of being able to buy another player cheaper.

[The Special Juan]

Rooney abroad is like Tevez in England. Unable to learn the language.

[compelling and rich]

ive seen some bits on twitter aswell i would quite happily sell him if someone is stupid enough to put a huge bid in for him. i said we needed to sell him when he put the transfer request in, thinks he's bigger than the club and the simple fact is for anybody who's watched him as much as i have, is that he is declining as a player.

you look at his figures from previuos seasons and that might disagree with my point but the simple fact last season rooney was consistantly poor but would chip in with a pen or a tap in created by good work from a team mate and nobody blinked a eye lid, not the worse trait to have but weve already have players who could do that, rooney used to be so much more. watching him in his early career he really could do it all, long range shots would fly into top corner now were lucky if he doesnt screw them wide, very rarely hits clean strikes now. his touch was great and would drive at oppenents something he rarely does now. he is now simply a fox in the box type striker of which isnt worth the huge wages he's on. i doubt rooney will be playing the true elite standard in his 30's, hardly like he leads the ideal professional life style.

i have been one of the more critical fans of both nani and rooney in recent seasons while others been quite happy with them, now it appears both could be on the way out. something that i wouldnt as im sick of thier below par performances and terrible attuitues

[The Special Juan]

ive seen some bits on twitter aswell i would quite happily sell him if someone is stupid enough to put a huge bid in for him. i said we needed to sell him when he put the transfer request in, thinks he's bigger than the club and the simple fact is for anybody who's watched him as much as i have, is that he is declining as a player.

you look at his figures from previuos seasons and that might disagree with my point but the simple fact last season rooney was consistantly poor but would chip in with a pen or a tap in created by good work from a team mate and nobody blinked a eye lid, not the worse trait to have but weve already have players who could do that, rooney used to be so much more. watching him in his early career he really could do it all, long range shots would fly into top corner now were lucky if he doesnt screw them wide, very rarely hits clean strikes now. his touch was great and would drive at oppenents something he rarely does now. he is now simply a fox in the box type striker of which isnt worth the huge wages he's on. i doubt rooney will be playing the true elite standard in his 30's, hardly like he leads the ideal professional life style.

i have been one of the more critical fans of both nani and rooney in recent seasons while others been quite happy with them, now it appears both could be on the way out. something that i wouldnt as im sick of thier below par performances and terrible attuitues

Very interesting read. Do you think that's because he is of slightly large size these days? He isn't finished yet, not by a long way, but I can identify with some of the points you've made. Could he be bumped into midfield?

[compelling and rich]

juan,

just in general the things i read about him, he smokes, favourite meal burger and chips etc wouldnt suprised if he drinks when he gets away with it. hardly see him as a modern pro who takes his career seriously because he realises the talent he's got. see the british mentatlity in him thats more akin to gazza.

midfield is a option but as above think he lost alot of the talent that would have made him more effective thier. his passing has been truely awful in recent seasons, something that is genrally accepted with most united fans i know. he tries passing through people which normally means it goes straight to the oppenent. but then can pick out a world class 50 yard cross field ball. dont feel his touch is good enough there anymore either

[Crimey]

I think Rooney has definitely started to plateau when people thought he'd get better. The most worrying thing is how awful his first touch has been over the past two years, he seems to really struggle to get the ball under his control.

I think we'll see both England and United try and move away from Rooney over the next couple of years as it is becoming more clear that you can't build a team around him.

He's no means a bad player, just not the world class player many thought he would become.

[The Special Juan]

juan,

just in general the things i read about him, he smokes, favourite meal burger and chips etc wouldnt suprised if he drinks when he gets away with it. hardly see him as a modern pro who takes his career seriously because he realises the talent he's got. see the british mentatlity in him thats more akin to gazza.

midfield is a option but as above think he lost alot of the talent that would have made him more effective thier. his passing has been truely awful in recent seasons, something that is genrally accepted with most united fans i know. he tries passing through people which normally means it goes straight to the oppenent. but then can pick out a world class 50 yard cross field ball. dont feel his touch is good enough there anymore either

I did not know about the smoking so thanks for that. Sounds like a bad attitude to me. Must be a British thing; so much talent and so little done with it. That probably explains why there are a lot of overseas players in the Premier League. They probably have better attitudes.

[Smirnoffpriest]

Rooney abroad at Home is like Tevez in England. Unable to learn the language.

Fixed that for you

[matth7]

I doubt Rooney wants to leave utd, also i don't think he would want to leave England.

[matth7]

Rio Ferdinand's return for Manchester United delayed for two weeks http://bit.ly/SPN2kT

[matth7]

Angelo Henriquez is expected to arrive in Manchester today.

[matth7]

looks like Berbatov is joining Fiorentina.

[matth7]

The reserves play Spurs tonight, it'll be live on Mutv.

[Geordie]

Two seriosuly overated players leaving for the greed of more money!...Walcott and Rooney.

Two players i wouldnt have anywhere near the England squad let alone the team.

[TopHat24/7]

where's walcott going??

[TopHat24/7]

Two seriosuly overated players leaving for the greed of more money!...Walcott and Rooney.

Two players i wouldnt have anywhere near the England squad let alone the team.

and in their place you'd take..........??

[matth7]

where's walcott going??

City and Liverpool want him.

[TopHat24/7]

I know Pool are short of wingers but haven't they already got an english winger with no end product??

also, Theo would be made to replace Johnson on Citeh's bench.

[Crimey]

I know Pool are short of wingers but haven't they already got an english winger with no end product??

also, Theo would be made to replace Johnson on Citeh's bench.

No end product of 11 goals and 13 assists...weird that....

[matth7]

this is going to be a long rant but bare with me, last night after Spurs agreed a fee with Fulham for Dembele, the doom mongers came out saying Fergie need to up the bid, first of all how do we know we were even interested in him and secondly maybe Demebele didn't want to come to us we don't know, also some of our ''fans'' need to stop telling the manager who to sign us, i would rather trust him rather than some of our ''fans'', some of them were losing the plot calling Fergie every name under the sun, jesus christ, we should be lucky we've got him, sopme of them should wait until he retires then they won't know what hit them, i bet some of them will support another club when he retires.............

[matth7]

Also the ''fans'' that phone the Paddy Crerand show, bloody hell, some of them are thick, there was one caller saying Scholes is past it, is he for real, he was one of the reason why we came close to winning the league last season, and there was another caller saying Giggs is holding the youngsters back, some of our ''fans'' are spoilt and should support another team, they are ungrateful, i apprecaite Scholes and Giggs, they are United legends, they don't course trouble off the pitch, they play football and go home unlike certain other players, some of our ''fans'' need to think before they speak.

Rant over.

[TopHat24/7]

I know Pool are short of wingers but haven't they already got an english winger with no end product??

also, Theo would be made to replace Johnson on Citeh's bench.

No end product of 11 goals and 13 assists...weird that....

I'm talking about Downing, 36 games or something like that no goals no assists.

Personally I like Theo, was just making on pun on his reputation. Think those stats slightly massage reality though.

[Crimey]

I know Pool are short of wingers but haven't they already got an english winger with no end product??

also, Theo would be made to replace Johnson on Citeh's bench.

No end product of 11 goals and 13 assists...weird that....

I'm talking about Downing, 36 games or something like that no goals no assists.

Personally I like Theo, was just making on pun on his reputation. Think those stats slightly massage reality though.

I understand that, but you were implying Walcott would be another one...

[Geordie]

Rooney could be replaced by Suttirdge, Welbeck, even tactically change and play Carroll as a ball winner alongside a finisher like Defoe.

And for those Caroll doubters...at his best he is a powerful player very difficult to handle....its just liverpool havent played to his strengths...

Even Crouch has showed vastly more for England than Rooney has!

As for Walcott...i think Johnson will finally show what he is acapable off with Martin O'Neil in charge and should take his place.

My issue with Walcott is that his end product is often very poor...he needs to sort out his consistency hugely....

[TopHat24/7]

I know Pool are short of wingers but haven't they already got an english winger with no end product??

also, Theo would be made to replace Johnson on Citeh's bench.

No end product of 11 goals and 13 assists...weird that....

I'm talking about Downing, 36 games or something like that no goals no assists.

Personally I like Theo, was just making on pun on his reputation. Think those stats slightly massage reality though.

I understand that, but you were implying Walcott would be another one...

Still could be....pretty sure Downing's record pre-Liverpool was much better than his record since he joined.

[TopHat24/7]

Rooney could be replaced by Suttirdge, Welbeck, even tactically change and play Carroll as a ball winner alongside a finisher like Defoe.

And for those Caroll doubters...at his best he is a powerful player very difficult to handle....its just liverpool havent played to his strengths...

Even Crouch has showed vastly more for England than Rooney has!

As for Walcott...i think Johnson will finally show what he is acapable off with Martin O'Neil in charge and should take his place.

My issue with Walcott is that his end product is often very poor...he needs to sort out his consistency hugely....

I like Carroll but he's got a long long way to go before being assured of leading England's line.

Welbeck is inexperienced and hit and miss, nobody in their right might would have in in their squad ahead of Rooney. Sturridge is talented but his fantastic first half of last season seems to have glossed over his poor second half, again yet to show the level of consistency to be adjudged capable of leading England's line. Defoe is at the tail-end of his career and, for whatever reason, has never really repeated his club-excellence on the international stage.

[Geordie]

Tophat,

Your correct that Sturridges quieter second half season was hidden a tad...and Carroll needs to up his game....

However your comment re Defoe...can be mirrored for Rooney.... i just dont see what Rooney is offering at all. He has never on a consistant level produced the displays that he does for Man U, for England.

[Smirnoffpriest]

Also TopHat you talk about incosistency with the other players, but Rooney is just as inconsistent, particularly with England - and he also doesn't fit into the England style of play, and all attempts to change the England style to fit around Rooney have failed - that's why Crouch has a better record for England than Rooney, and why other parternships have proved more fruitful than any with Rooney.

[HERSH]

[TopHat24/7]

Tophat,

Your correct that Sturridges quieter second half season was hidden a tad...and Carroll needs to up his game....

However your comment re Defoe...can be mirrored for Rooney.... i just dont see what Rooney is offering at all. He has never on a consistant level produced the displays that he does for Man U, for England.

Except Defoe is 3 further years down the line and, even more so than Rooney, is likely to suffer with age (as opposed to the Sheringham type strikers who have the skill-set for age to be less of a burden).

The thing with Rooney is he has a nack of getting tap-ins and penalties here and there to keep his goal tally going, which tends to gloss over his otherwise poor form. I think he's been off the boil for almost 2 years now. Have never liked or respected him since his contract/transfer request episode.

My mate made an interesting point about him the other day, he was such a brute as a kid that, unlike many other young strikers, he never needed to grow into his position and benefit from improved strength/physique (look at Ronaldo 10 years on from when he joined United as a skinny 17 yr old for example) therefore he may have peak earlier than other strikers at, say, 24/25 rather than 27/28.

[TopHat24/7]

Also TopHat you talk about incosistency with the other players, but Rooney is just as inconsistent, particularly with England - and he also doesn't fit into the England style of play, and all attempts to change the England style to fit around Rooney have failed - that's why Crouch has a better record for England than Rooney, and why other parternships have proved more fruitful than any with Rooney.

Not that I disagree particularly, but which partnerships excluding Rooney have been more fruitful (during his tenure)?

[Smirnoffpriest]

I can't remember exactly but am pretty sure the Crouch/Defoe partnership has a higher goals/games ratio, while even the Heskey/Defoe partnership was better. I'll need to check but I definately read that any partnership with Rooney in it was down the list of effective partnerships for England.

Not saying that Crouch, Defoe and particularlu Heskey are better players but they do fit the England system better than Rooney and as such have a better return.

[TopHat24/7]

I can't remember exactly but am pretty sure the Crouch/Defoe partnership has a higher goals/games ratio, while even the Heskey/Defoe partnership was better. I'll need to check but I definately read that any partnership with Rooney in it was down the list of effective partnerships for England.

Not saying that Crouch, Defoe and particularlu Heskey are better players but they do fit the England system better than Rooney and as such have a better return.

Crouch had a fantastic goals record for England, esp per minute as he was often a sub, problem with him was he was always unfairly penalised by continental referees for his size. Can't remember which tourny it was, possibly 2006 WC, but it got absurd at one point. Every time a ball was played up to him the ref blew his whistle. Apparently the ref's had been expressley warned about him and told to penalise him another Platini anti-England conspiracy!

[Smirnoffpriest]

I wouldn't say the only problem with Crouch was he was unfairly penalised, but he did have a good int record (not fantastic though when compared to other England strikers from the past, or main men for other top 20 international teams).

But my point was that Crouch, Defoe, Welbeck and others have all been marginalised in favour of Rooney despite having a much better return than him, and fitting into the gameplan/way other members of the team play, much better than Rooney.

[Guest]

Nobody cares, this is a Man Utd thread and United > England

[Smirnoffpriest]

Ahh of course I forgot

[Duty281]

I wouldn't say the only problem with Crouch was he was unfairly penalised, but he did have a good int record (not fantastic though when compared to other England strikers from the past, or main men for other top 20 international teams).

But my point was that Crouch, Defoe, Welbeck and others have all been marginalised in favour of Rooney despite having a much better return than him, and fitting into the gameplan/way other members of the team play, much better than Rooney.

If Rooney retired from internationals it would be better for all parties. England could play strikers who are actually proud to wear the shirt, Rooney would become a better player for Man United with only one team to focus on and Man United can be happy in the knowledge that Rooney isn't risking injury in pointless friendlies/qualifiers and having a rest over the summer.

[Liam]

But then Rooney obviously wants to play for England like any player Englishman would. He was fantastic in Euro 2004 but since then has been average at best. I still believe an England side like any side with Rooney in is only a positive.

[matth7]

Powell, Lindegaard, Fletcher and Evans start for the reserves.

[The Special Juan]

"Wayne Rooney ‏@WayneRooney

Read the nonsense in the papers and heard what people have to say.absolute rubbish. #heartostay

Wayne Rooney ‏@WayneRooney

Here sorry"

[Liam]

Powell, Lindegaard, Fletcher and Evans start for the reserves.

Nice to see Fletcher on the mend. If he can regain his fitness he'll be like a new signing and will bring some defensive stability to our midfield.

[Smirnoffpriest]

But then Rooney obviously wants to play for England like any player Englishman would. He was fantastic in Euro 2004 but since then has been average at best. I still believe an England side like any side with Rooney in is only a positive.

U mean like Scholes & Carragher do?

[matth7]

United won 2-1, i was impressed with Buttner, Lindegaard produced 2 world class saves.

[matth7]

talk on twitter is that Berbatov has rejected a move to Fiorentina and Juventus and he'll join Fulham.

[Crimey]

Good signing for Fulham if they can pull that off.

[matth7]

Good signing for Fulham if they can pull that off.

Agreed, they're desperate for a striker and Martin Jol did work with him at Spurs.

[matth7]

Champions league draw later, who do United fans want in the group stages this year.

[TopHat24/7]

don't care, can't see us getting past QF stage anyway n I'd rather we concentrated on the league.

[matth7]

I can see us winning it this time.

[TopHat24/7]

My money is on 1) Citeh 2) Chelski 3) United; with a barnstorming battle for 4th between the mersey and north London derby sides plus Newcastle.

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