European Tour: Johnnie Walker Championship @ Gleneagles

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After two great European wins in US we're back this week (without the two winners, unfortunately) on the Europeant Tour with the Johnnie Walker Championship at Gleneagles. And as we've heard many times already over the past week or so, it's all about Ryder Cup (well, almost all...). The tournament was moved only recently (since 2007) to the end of August and has been indirectly linked eversince with the Ryder Cup as being the last ET event counting for the European RC team selection. And surprise, surprise, to the organisers' delight, no doubt, this had an immediate effect on the tournament's field strength...

Spoiler:

Can you guess which are the Ryder Cup years...?

Talking about the Ryder Cup, there is, of course, also a direct connection with Gleneagles, as this is the venue for the next edition organised in Europe in 2014. I'm not sure if the Johnnie Walker tournament will still be organised on the same course just before the Ryder Cup that year, but if it will, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turns out to be one of the best fields in its history.

But going back to this week's event, Captain Olly is in the field, of course, and apart from his game he'll be keeping a close eye on how guys like N. Colsaerts, R. Cabrera-Bello and D. Lynn will perform. As we've been discussing already, the field strength this year is probably even more relevant than in other years, and some of the late withdrawals from the initial field are already having an impact on what will or could have happened. As it stands now, it looks that the winner will receive 30 owgr points and at this level Colsaerts needs a 3-way tie for 2nd or better (solo 3rd is not enough) to move ahead of Kaymer (just in case there is some last minute WD and the field strength drops to 28 points then he'll need a 2-way tie for 2nd or better). Unfortunately, if the field strength would've stayed at 32 points (as it was just a few days ago, before P. Hanson WD), both Cabrerra-Bello and Lynn would still have the chance to overcome Kaymer in the World Points Standings with a win, but as it is now they've no chance, and in fact Lynn will end up only ~0.7 points short, should he win... I just came across this piece that confirms the regrets that David Lynn feels now after choosing not to stay one week longer in US (as smart Colsaerts did) and play Greensboro, despite being pressed on that by Harrington, who ended up giving him a lift to NY in his private jet...

http://www.espnstar.com/golf/news/detail/item841473/Lynn-regrets-not-staying-on-in-US/

Anyway, whatever happened, happened and this is the situation we're in now... Apart from those mentioned, the next three in line in the RC qualification standings are also in the field (Bjorn, Siem and Dyson) and although no one gives them any realistic chance, a win here could bring any of them right behind Colsaerts and... you never know...

It should be an interesting and intriguig weekend, no doubt...

How was he close Hendo? I can name 8 players who were more deserving.

Harrington was no more likely than Dyson and no one is talking about him.

super_realist wrote:How was he close Hendo? I can name 8 players who were more deserving.

Harrington was no more likely than Dyson and no one is talking about him.

That's fairly obvious, isn't it. He's a 3 time Major winner and arguably the top European player of the past 15 years. He's obviously going to merit greater consideration than a player in a similar place on the listing who has never played Ryder Cup.

Form varies from year to year. If the Ryder Cup had been in September 2011, Padraig wouldn't have merited any discussion at all. Meanwhile, Darren Clarke and Thomas Bjorn would not have been vice-captains because they would have both qualified automatically.

John Cregan wrote:Disagree that a player needs to change his schedule to suit RC last minute qualification.

A player should always prioritise their own individual career ahead of changing it for the purposes of RC qualification.

It is an interesting point that even though Poulter has made every cut all year, he was still unable to catch Kaymer whose points ground to a halt the last few months.................

Anyone who gets a WC pick is lucky really, and this is Poulter's second one. It's just this time, he was the outstanding candidate..........

It's fair to say that the introduction of the Fedex Cup has impacted negatively on the Ryder Cup in several ways. If it didn't exist, all of these players would have been at Gleneagles last week and the qualification would have been much more interesting. Also, the top players are no longer coming into the Ryder Cup fresh as they could do up until 2006. Anyone who plays well in the Fedex can't be at their very best the very next week. No player would choose to prepare for a Major by following a similar schedule so why do the powers that be think it is appropriate in the lead up to the Ryder Cup?

put it like this. why did Ollie give Harrington a call to say he hadnt made the team? do you reckon he gave Dyson a call?
also why did he discuss Harrington in his press conference without promt from the journos. he didnt mention Dyson or Oleson etc.

I think you very much undervalue experience on US style courses.

Interesting stuff about Poulter and the Wyndham, guess the Ryder Cup doesnt mean THAT much to him
Kwini, i'll give the pairings a go:
Rose/Poulter, GMAC/McIlroy are nailed on i think
Garcia/Donald, Donald Westwood have worked well as did Westwood/Kaymer
I'd pair Molinari and Hansen in both formats- super steady
Lawrie and Colsaearts?

Tin - That's a VERY good point. And while many a golf fan might be interested in the RC, it's clear to me why a professional golfer would place the financial gain and security the Fed Ex cup can provide over what Rory McIlroy called an exhibition event.

super_realist wrote:How was he close Hendo? I can name 8 players who were more deserving.

Your anti-Harrington bias is clouding your judgement there fella, if there were 3 Captain's picks then Harrington would be in, no doubt.

Pairings...

Donald and Garcia
Poulter and Rose
McIlroy and McDowell...

are all proven as effective pairings and will be good foursomes.

Westwood and Colsaerts might be a good mix, I see lots of birdies from them in either format. I think Westwood and Lawrie would make a tidy pairing too.

Molinari and Hanson would be very steady.

Kaymer wouldn't get near the foursomes if I was picking.

Fourballs:

The options are endless, I would go as far to say that it barely matters. You put your 8 sharpest looking players out... guys that have taken to the course the best and look like making plenty of birdies. Might even give Kaymer a game in one of them!

Any Ryder Cup candidate will already be financially set for life.

Very pleased that Sergio got his priorities right.

Sr,
Duval and Mahan and others have also classified the Ryder Cup as "an exhibition event". But not after they played in it. Rory the same way.

Any Ryder Cup "veteran" who thinks it's just an exhibition can take a hike, Rory included in my book.


One very good reason why Europeans are committed to the FedEx is to get their PGA Tour events in, Finchem's FedEx handcuffs, brilliantly conceived.


Rr,
Someone has got to be Kaymer's minder, would think that will have to be Westwood, at least to start - don't know if he's personally close to his teammates, that could change the dynamic of course!

kwinigolfer wrote:


Rr,
Someone has got to be Kaymer's minder, would think that will have to be Westwood, at least to start - don't know if he's personally close to his teammates, that could change the dynamic of course!

I would stick them together for one 4 ball game so that Kaymer is match ready for his singles, but I would otherwise keep him out of it unless he shows a resurgence over the next few weeks. There are 11 other players that look like they can deliver, there is no need to overly rely on a player that out of form.

Love's choices look a little more difficult, 5 from 4 of Stricker, Furyk,Mahan DJ and Fowler maybe Snedeker too now has Watney in the mix.
Guess this week will be key, inconceivable a few months back but maybe Mahan will miss out.

Any guesses or will it be easier to wait til next Sunday night?

RR, agree on Kaymer, no form in the run up and i think he gets one game max, cant have anyone not playing til singles like 99 though.

one game before Sunday singles i meant

Rr,
Agreed, but get him out early!! If it goes well, repeat. If not, discard.

And have Colsaerts ready to open the batting in the afternoon.

Two very good teams in prospect - though Azinger's podcast this morning was interesting as he noted the unpredictable recent form of some prominent Americans. Am somehow thinking Dufner could be a key man!

You'd have to be retarded to constantly bring up Harrington's 3 majors as sufficient reason to include him as a pick for this years Ryder Cup.
There have been 16 Majors and two Ryder Cup since Harrington last won one, and besides major's have bugger all to do with Ryder Cup, just ask Man Sausage Woods.

Harrington simply isn't in good enough form to merit a pick, in fact going on world rankings, form, tournaments won there is absolutely no justification or sensible reason to have him anywhere near this team, and to say he does just shows no understanding of Golf and the Ryder Cup.

Having Harrington in the Ryder Cup is about as sensible as having Michael Owen playing for England. Past glories.

Kwin - Handcuffs or opportunity? No one makes anyone compete on the US tour, so I think it's all a matter of how you look at it.

Sr,
Going round in circles.
Three Majors and three WGC's dictate that the world's best have very little option but to play a good slice of their schedule here, as you know!
Not many of the big American-based events are won by guys who've just flown in for the occasion, Cink probably the last.

I think that one of the appeals of the Ryder Cup is that Europe's best players get the chance to compete for a golf tournament on a level playing field. Refreshing!

I do think olazabal would have picked harrington had kaymer got the bump. Personally id like to see olesen get the call - exciting prospect - but if it was my call i'm not sure i'd have the balls to do so!

Kwin - Of course they have an option. But, admittedly, not of a lot of comparable options.

Westwood uprooting family to these United States I'm told. Can't make the Euro tour people too happy.

European RC team is VERY strong.

I think the RC would have been better played at Merion and the US Open at Medinah ... but that's just my opinion.

kwinigolfer wrote:Rr,
Agreed, but get him out early!! If it goes well, repeat. If not, discard.

And have Colsaerts ready to open the batting in the afternoon.

Two very good teams in prospect - though Azinger's podcast this morning was interesting as he noted the unpredictable recent form of some prominent Americans. Am somehow thinking Dufner could be a key man!

Well I think Day is 4-somes, so that would be a massive no from me. Get the sure things out there, then give him a chance in the early 4-balls.

I am really impressed with guys like Dufner, Bradley and Simpson... they have really added some depth to this side and have kept their form up. I think Team Europe are really up against it this time, this US team will be a tough nut to crack.

Cabrera Bello, Castano, Dyson, Siem, Freddie Jac, Bjorn, Olesen, Quiros, Luiten and even perhaps Jamie Donaldson or Robert Rock have all been at least as good if not considerably better than Harrington this year.

Seriously, saying Harrington is unlucky to be overlooked is like saying that Fulham were unlucky not to win the Premier League, had it not been for all the teams in front of them.

Fortunately Harrington hasn't been picked, so our team is all the stronger for not having someone who has lost more matches than he's won on it.

Super - I really think you should try to have a little bit of cop on. For some reason, you seem to want to criticise Harrington in almost every post. Learn to read what people are actually saying before jumping in. Nobody said he was unlucky not to be picked. It is simply that his status in the game makes him worthy of greater consideration than an uncapped player in a similar position in the table.

It would be the same in the US. Do you really think Phil Mickelson wouldn't be considered more than an uncapped player in a similar position if he required a pick? Phil's Ryder Cup record is not the best either.

Tinmar, status in Ryder cup means nothing at all. If you want to pick the best team you don't pick someone who's best days were over four years ago.

Fortunately olazabal knows this and doesn't consider the fact that paddy's reputation has been dining out on 2008 well since 2008.

I wouldn't expect Mickelson or woods to be considered in front of someone who was in better form.

Paddy is neither in noteworthy form in any sort of consistency, nor does he have a good Ryder cup record. Given the choice I would have picked Olesen had poulter qualified instead of kaymer, and paddy wouldn't even be up for consideration (regardless of his worthless history in the game)

I'm not particularly anti harrington, but people are being stupid and naive if they think ancient results and shaky form should count for anything. It's the Ryder cup when the twelve best players from usa and Europe are there. It isn't a has been or sentimental elect.

princedracula wrote:

Talking about the Ryder Cup, there is, of course, also a direct connection with Gleneagles, as this is the venue for the next edition organised in Europe in 2014. I'm not sure if the Johnnie Walker tournament will still be organised on the same course just before the Ryder Cup that year, but if it will, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turns out to be one of the best fields in its history.

This is a very interesting point PD. I wonder what they will do. Gleneagles is owned by Diageo, the maker of Johnnie Walker, so the sponsors have a very good reason for sticking with this venue.... maybe they will play the tournament on the (arguably better) King's course?

super_realist wrote:Cabrera Bello, Castano, Dyson, Siem, Freddie Jac, Bjorn, Olesen, Quiros, Luiten and even perhaps Jamie Donaldson or Robert Rock have all been at least as good if not considerably better than Harrington this year.

Seriously, saying Harrington is unlucky to be overlooked is like saying that Fulham were unlucky not to win the Premier League, had it not been for all the teams in front of them.

Fortunately Harrington hasn't been picked, so our team is all the stronger for not having someone who has lost more matches than he's won on it.

BS, Quiros and Jacobson have done precisely nothing at all this year, to the extent that Quiros is taking time out to get his game in order. And Bjorn, Dyson, Castano haven't had years to match their 2011s.

In terms of 2012 form, there were maybe four or five candidates (apart from Colsaerts and Poulter), who were slightly ahead of Harrington, but because of various other factors, Harrington was almost certainly still the next man in line, whether you think he deserved it or not.


Anyway... pairings. Would be pretty obvious to me that unless Kaymer shows better form this month, he can't be trusted in foursomes. Westwood, Molinari, Lawrie would all seem sensible matches for him in fourballs, though it was interesting to see Andrew Coltart on Sky Sports the other week, saying that despite what happened to him at Brookline he still thinks leaving someone out until the singles can be a good policy...
Would think that McIlroy/McDowell would be an obvious one to start off with in the foursomes. Either of Westwood or Molinari with either of Donald or Poulter would seem good matches of tee-to-green play with short games, Sergio could be another candidate there along with Lee and Francesco. And Lawrie and Hanson looks like a nice match of two steady all-round players.

You go on about Harringtons stature in the game, his majors and experience but they have counted for nothing in previous Ryder Cups, so why try to use it as leverage.

Fact is, he is behind many many players in qualification, world rankings and tournament wins this year. So I still, despite your jingoistic protestations for his selection don't understand the argument for him being close to selection.

We get it, you're oirish, he's oirish, doesn't mean he should be in, or even be considered for a pick. Thank goodness he isn't.

raycastleunited wrote:

This is a very interesting point PD. I wonder what they will do. Gleneagles is owned by Diageo, the maker of Johnnie Walker, so the sponsors have a very good reason for sticking with this venue.... maybe they will play the tournament on the (arguably better) King's course?

As a one off they may switch it to the Kings, but the reason they no longer use the course is it is too short/easy for the modern pro. It would be quite a sin to see the players nearing -30 on such a great course. I suspect they might pull the event forward in the callender, they might switch it with Welsh Open for instance since they are both RC venues.

Tinmar wrote:

John Cregan wrote:Disagree that a player needs to change his schedule to suit RC last minute qualification.

A player should always prioritise their own individual career ahead of changing it for the purposes of RC qualification.

It is an interesting point that even though Poulter has made every cut all year, he was still unable to catch Kaymer whose points ground to a halt the last few months.................

Anyone who gets a WC pick is lucky really, and this is Poulter's second one. It's just this time, he was the outstanding candidate..........

It's fair to say that the introduction of the Fedex Cup has impacted negatively on the Ryder Cup in several ways. If it didn't exist, all of these players would have been at Gleneagles last week and the qualification would have been much more interesting. Also, the top players are no longer coming into the Ryder Cup fresh as they could do up until 2006. Anyone who plays well in the Fedex can't be at their very best the very next week. No player would choose to prepare for a Major by following a similar schedule so why do the powers that be think it is appropriate in the lead up to the Ryder Cup?

I get your point Hend, but, any players worth their salt should be more interested in winning the Fed Ex Cup than winning the Ryder Cup...........the RC is such a great event, that as fans, we tend to put it ahead of other things, which in reality, we shouldn't.............

Not sure why pioople are saying McDowell McIlroy is a proven partnership..........not on Celtic Manors evidence. Definately think it would help the team to have them split. Westwood Donald were awesome in their destruction of Woods and Stricker................and their game is a great fit...............

THe US have a strong team on paper, wonder what they'll be like as a team though a lot of rookies in there, and if they haven't been praying could be in trouble.

Hopefully most of them will be jaded after the Fed-Ex playoffs, although in saying that a few of the European side should make it to Eastlake as well.

Well, you certainly don't win the RC on paper. It's usually the singles that make the difference. Both teams deep in that respect. I anticipate a very close event.

i see the US as huge favourites to be honest.
how many events has colsaerts played in on US style courses?
Kaymer at worrst may be 2points down the drain... at best serious underdog.
i think you just have to look at the quality of the US players who have missed out on the team. stricker DJ Watney Sneds Furyk Fowler. they would all stroll onto the team.
i know there is the whole thing of not being played on paper etc.... but still-it certainly points to the US as big faves

How many times have America been favourites though Hendo? yet 9/12 of the last Ryder CUps have been won by Europe.

Not sure Colsaerts is a weak link, or even Kaymer. A change of format might be just what he needs.

hend085 wrote:i see the US as huge favourites to be honest.
how many events has colsaerts played in on US style courses?
Kaymer at worrst may be 2points down the drain... at best serious underdog.
i think you just have to look at the quality of the US players who have missed out on the team. stricker DJ Watney Sneds Furyk Fowler. they would all stroll onto the team.
i know there is the whole thing of not being played on paper etc.... but still-it certainly points to the US as big faves

Totally disagree with that... Kaymer is a major champion, yes hes having a bad time at the moment but hes more than capable of turning round his game in time and still has the best part of a month.

The above 5 would so not stroll into our team. No way whatsoever. Who would you leave out?

The US also have the likes of Mickleson, Zach Johnson and Webb Simpson who are not exactly in form either at the moment.

I hope I'm wrong but I would also see the US as strong favourites. I think their team is incredibly strong as is evidenced by the options available to Davis Love for his picks.

Just think back to 2006 at The K Club and how weak their team was then. Vaughn Taylor, Brett Wetterich & JJ Henry! None of those guys would have got near this team. I thought at the time that Lehman was a far better captain than Woosnam but he just didn't have the players.

The US will have a lot of rookies but they will all be really good players. I can't see a weak link anywhere. I would liken their team to the European team in 2004. That had several experienced players but also some really top class debutants in Donald, Casey, Poulter & Howell.

US to win in my book also, the main factor being home advantage.

Poulter to contribute 0 points.

I don't see a clear favorite in this event -- and I do not put too much emphasis home field advantage. Top Euros play most of their professional golf here and intimately familiar with US style championship courses.

Shotrock wrote:I don't see a clear favorite in this event -- and I do not put too much emphasis home field advantage. Top Euros play most of their professional golf here and intimately familiar with US style championship courses.

top euros all play over there yet mcilroy and rose (no 10) are the only ones in the top 10 on money list?

How does this matter in matchplay Hendo?

incontinentia wrote:US to win in my book also, the main factor being home advantage.

Poulter to contribute 0 points.

You bitter about him ousting Harrington, even though he was miles ahead in every selection and common sense criteria?

super_realist wrote:How does this matter in matchplay Hendo?

if they played 20 matchplay/fourball/foursomes matches a year then i would use that as a lead indicator obviously but they dont.

this point you are making completely contradicts what you were saying about Harrington being too far down the qualification tables!

I'd say it was Coeltsy that ousted Harrington, and by a whisker at that.

I wish them both luck anyway.

.....or does it? His Ryder Cup record is not very good either.

I just don't buy that the American's are nailed on favourites, they always are but it seldom comes to pass that they win so who cares who is favourite, it's proven to mean next to nothing.

USA will be very tough to beat on home soil, whoever makes the final team.

Strokeplay results obviously matter in Ryder Cup matchplay event. It's overwhelmingly how you qualify for an automatic spot on either team.

It will be curious to see how Tiger and Lukey do ... will we get weekend Lukey or "weak-day" Lukey. Will we get "weak-end" Tiger or weekday Tiger?

Shotrock, what I mean is that once you qualify your strokeplay results count for nothing in a matchplay event.

If it did then Man Sausage Woods would be the greatest Ryder Cup player in history and not just another average player totally eclipsed by non major winners Poulter, Donald, Westwood and Garcia.

By the way I see coffin dodgers "Chicago" are playing at the opening, plus USA have Justin TImberlake (the knob) as Team Ambassador, good to see America living up to the stereotype of having no style or taste.

Super - Yeah, give me the Bay City Rollers.

But your stereotype is right up there with "Americans and their inability to compete in international team competitions"

Tiger's career matchplay record is very solid -- but not an impressive Ryder Cupper. Big deal -- I'm sure he relishes the competition, but I'm also sure dominating in that event is not high on his career goals. 99% of all professional golf is individual medal play. He won't rest until he reaches Jack's level of majors. Which means he may never rest.

What happened to Tiger in the Ryder cup? Remember 1997 and 1999 (i think) he was really into it, and today he is more like a pug-faced spectator.

He has become really cynical with age.

Shotrock, I wasn't saying Americans can't compete in international competition. For the millionth time I was saying that the fans of America, rarely have the opportunity to support their nation in a high profile match where USA are taking on another country whereas we in the UK and Europe do regularly experience that.

Get it or do you deliberately miss the point?

I played football with a Bay City Roller once.
Probably a lowlight in his career as well as mine.

Perhaps they're pushing Chicago out in their wheelchairs because they still think "every day's the Fourth Of July".