Weak era relic pummels Golden Era leading young player

Says it all really. The gulf in class between Roddick and Tomic was vast.

Definitely the wrong guy is leaving the game.

Shocking from Tomic to be bagelled.

Blake beating Granollers.

I should hope Andy can win this match against the kid with that kind of home court advantage on a surface that clearly favors him. Nobody claims Roddick can't play he just is a bit of a soft year end #1. I think the New york crowd probably got to the kid, I don't find it shocking getting bagelled at all. New Yorker sports fans aren't known for their grace and class.

Did you watch the match? The place was half empty at the start and the crowd was never intimidating. This was no Jimmy Connors madfest.

Roddick just outclassed him because he knows how to attack and Tomic is a baseline pusher with no weapons. It wasn't even lose, not from the start.

Given Andy has decided to jack it in, it really exposes what an ordinary player Tomic is and if he's the leader of the new pack there's nothing to look forward to I'm afraid. He's a typical result of a game that's been tilted towards favouring defensive play.

Tomic is pretty awful really - ugly slap of a forehand, distinctly average serve, and no real weapons to speak of. He joins the list of players whom I have no idea how they've done as well as they have in the game - others in this list include Tsonga (erratic baseliner who can lose to anyone on a bad day), Troicki (how this guy wins any matches at all amazes me) and Stepanek (average serve, and weak, erratic groundshots).

I wonder whether Eurosport might wish to review their contract with Mats Wilander this morning.

I ask because because his pre-match assessment of last night's Roddick-Tomic encounter simply has to be a contender for the title of Worst-Ever call on the respective prospects of two opponents.

All 'expert' pundits are expected to be bold. That often involves putting your neck on the line, and then taking the consequences. It's what you're paid to do.

I respect Wilander as much as I do all multi-Slam winners (and indeed more than some) but I'm not sure he will want to bump into Roddick in the player's lounge either at his last pro event here - or indeed any time soon ......

Just how did Wilander get this so horribly wrong

His rather over-excited 'bigging-up' of Tomic is one thing ; but did it not even occur to him that a guy with as much battle-hardened experience as Roddick has acquired over so many years on the biggest stages might count for something ....??

What staggered me more than anything was his view that the outcome of the match could be, quote "detrimental to the future of Andy Roddick's mental health" (I'm not making this up .... he really said it)

He did get something right : ie. that A-Rod should be thinking about "getting it over with as soon as possible" ; which - in fairness to Wilander - is precisely what happened...

The whole gory Wilander pre-match analysis is recorded for posterity in the link below, with the Roddick stuff beginning at 1:43 in. Worth a watch !

In other news : Well done Andy

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/video/01092012/58/mats-robson-impressive-against-li.html

Wilander is an entertaining and knowleadgeble commentator who has though the unforgivable quality ( at least in the eye of some...... ) of speaking his mind and putting a bit of humour into his comments.

bogbrush wrote:Did you watch the match? The place was half empty at the start and the crowd was never intimidating. This was no Jimmy Connors madfest.

Roddick just outclassed him because he knows how to attack and Tomic is a baseline pusher with no weapons. It wasn't even lose, not from the start.

Given Andy has decided to jack it in, it really exposes what an ordinary player Tomic is and if he's the leader of the new pack there's nothing to look forward to I'm afraid. He's a typical result of a game that's been tilted towards favouring defensive play.

Why did you make this thread? Just to have arguments with fruits like him.

Tomic will be a class player once he breaks through at Masters level, which won't be that long away.

I made the thread because I think it's ironic that a player derided for his limitations, at the very end of his career, can show how superior he is to one of the vanguard of youth today, and because of what that tells us of the desert awaiting this sport once a couple of top players retire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fsloOjcRK3I

starts getting funny after 5:00

interestingly the guy who annoyed him was Will Swanson who I mentioned a week ago in this place.

Maybe he could take some of that fake aggression onto court and get something from it. I'm sure Swanson is really quaking that Tomic will remember his name. Oooohhhh!

Pitiful explanations; he wishes he'd had even 10 minutes to knock on the court (yet after an hour playing he went backwards) and he wasn't used to playing in front of that many people (yet the place been half empty).

bogbrush wrote:Did you watch the match? The place was half empty at the start and the crowd was never intimidating. This was no Jimmy Connors madfest.

Roddick just outclassed him because he knows how to attack and Tomic is a baseline pusher with no weapons. It wasn't even lose, not from the start.

Given Andy has decided to jack it in, it really exposes what an ordinary player Tomic is and if he's the leader of the new pack there's nothing to look forward to I'm afraid. He's a typical result of a game that's been tilted towards favouring defensive play.

Well I think you are being very harsh on the young man BB that is my honest opinion. Djokovic just lost to Fed 6-0, Fed has lost bad, bad sets to Nadal. I think Tomic will become a very good player. I think he has good feel, a good backhand, and his serve is pretty good and will get better. If you wanted to be balanced you could mention that two relative unknown Americans in Sock and Johnson have pushed there way to the 3rd, it is apparent that for many years now the prime for tennis players has been getting a bit older as the style and tech of the game has changed. It takes years of seasoning now to get to your best, these guys have been underwhelming b so far but this could be a function of having to develop physically more than in the past, this takes time look at when it clicked for Djoko at 23 or 24.

He quit, and his presser performance was pathetic. Not interested in hearing excuses for quitting.

His problem is he has got a career going on the back of a nothing, pushing game that he'd not have got away with in faster conditions. Andy showed him up in every way.

Apparently spends a lot of time in night clubs too. Maybe he should be looking at fellow countryman Lleyton Hewitt who is currently playing through more injuries, just back from foot surgery, battling through 5 setters. Lleyton has more guts in his little finger than Tomic has in total.

Roddick can beat anyone outside the big 3 when his serving games are smooth. Federer was just as bad in the Olympics final too, Tomic hasnt even played 100 matches on the ATP yet..

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Roddick can beat anyone outside the big 3 when his serving games are smooth. Federer was just as bad in the Olympics final too, Tomic hasnt even played 100 matches on the ATP yet..

Exactly, it is much harder to win at young age as physical strength and fitness is more the premium. Plus consistency and durability are qualities that in athletes develop with time and seasoning. A good post Josiah, but BB must talk down all of the players of today and the style in order to fulfill his desire to see more boring ace fests, a desire that frankly the vast majority of tennis fans and tournament directors fortunately don't share.

It's impossible to talk down Tomic's performance last night. It was pathetic, and watching Sky today the talk between Marcus, Greg & Annabel was all about how it's all falling apart for him. As for your "last resort" position that people can't get fit until their late twenties, Roddick makes next to no demand of endurance or stamina, so God knows how you planned to apply that - are you saying he couldn't last the pace for the hour and a half?

The fact that you can't see Tomic for the one-dimensional pusher he is pretty much undermines a lot of your arguments about the wider game.

That is your opinion of his talents BB not the majority of commentators and experts or my own opinion on it. I think you are prejudging the player, look how long Djokovic was plagued with fitness issues or went on mental walkabouts. There is no textbook for success Lendl when he was down two sets to John Mac at the FO final was talked about as one of the greatest chokers of all time. I think you are being hasty. I don't think Tomic is going to win a slam or be number 1, I don't think he is that good of a player and hasn't shown the mental fortitude of champion. Outside of Nadal we just haven't had a teenage sensation like Borg, Mac, Becker, or Wilander who at extremely young ages were winning and getting deep in slams. Even Djoko really didn't come into his own till last year and he showed a great deal of promise early in his career. So the physical strength, consistency, shot selection, and durability required of the modern champion favors a bit more seasoning where the players come to fruition in their mid 20s and late 20s. I don't really see anything wrong with it.

What are you on about?

You're rambling about everything except the fact he was schooled yesterday by a guy retiring because he's dropped his level so far.

The guy is ranked a lot higher than Tomic and is playing in front of a partisan crowd. The kid has not been playing well, and he isn't my favorite young player, it doesn't mean that he can't be successful in the future or doesn't have the ability. So he got bagelled it happens to every pro at some point, I have been bagelled and I have bagelled. One time I got diarhea during a match and the thought of Poopie my pants caused me to get bagelled by a guy I beat 70 percent of the time. Its tennis the ball is round, Poopie happens you are drawing way too much from one set and one match. Was 1991 an epic failure because a 39 year old connors beat a bunch of young players and got to the semis? The number 20 player in the world on his favorite court in the world beat a young player not in his prime badly in one set nothing much to see hear. Certainly, not the mount everest you are trying to build on this thread.

He's ranked higher because he's better, and he proved that by schooling him. Unfortunately he's close to the best the next generation has to offer.

Your own points give lie to the suggestion it's being read into a set. You should read around more; Tomic has attitude problems and is being found out.

That's for sharing your tennis and digestion issues, I'll bear them in mind next time I talk about World lass tennis.

NO I agree the kid has bigger problems than just getting bagelled, but a career is a long thing it doesn't mean he won't have his moments of sunshine and can't figure it out. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. But on his technical and physical ability I think you are being quite harsh. I think both himself and Harrison have to get better at being aggressive or won't amount to much. Don't confuse the underperforming so far of the 18-22 year olds with the guys who 23-27 who have performed exceptionally well. That doesn't mean that some of those guys won't develop into real champions the jury is still out preliminary results of the next generation I agree has not been good. I think the Nadal, Murray, Djoko, Del Po class of players will be good enough for long enough till either a new generation of stars develop or some of these underperforming talents find the formula. The new stars always eventually show themselves.

Blah blah.

So you agree the retiring Roddick is a much stronger player? And nothing to do with stamina, since that wasn't in play yesterday.

AT this point yes, didn't tomic just go through a streak where he lost like 7 or 8 straight times in the first round. Not all of those matches are at the hands of golden oldies like Roddick. He has played like crap this summer. Other than that fact there isn't much you can draw from that. And like I said not the mountain you are building out of it.

Socal is right in saying Tomic was on bad form this summer... really bad form in-fact.
However BB+Socal you do realise that if we are looking at a strength of a generation we generally look at the top.
The young ones doing badly mean the next generation will be worse, not this one.

Anyway on young vs old- Raonic is currently bossing Blake- Raonic has been on much better form this summer than Tomic and other young players.

It Must Be Love wrote:Socal is right in saying Tomic was on bad form this summer... really bad form in-fact.
However BB+Socal you do realise that if we are looking at a strength of a generation we generally look at the top.
The young ones doing badly mean the next generation will be worse, not this one.

Anyway on young vs old- Raonic is currently bossing Blake- Raonic has been on much better form this summer than Tomic and other young players.

That's exactly what I said.

Of course the top determines the strength of the era Del Po and Raonic look like pretty good future players that could win more slams and be top 5 type guys for the long haul. We will have to see. Tomic to me looks more like a future top 15 guy, maybe top 10. But it is way premature to be so sweeping about him. Yes he isn't the greatest prospect and he has played like crap all summer with a lot of scrubbier guys worse than Roddick beating him.

He's never won a match doing anything more exciting than pushing. Can't you see how limited the guy is? He's got nothing.

They may look good, but not great like other era's have had. That is depressing.

bogbrush wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:Socal is right in saying Tomic was on bad form this summer... really bad form in-fact.
However BB+Socal you do realise that if we are looking at a strength of a generation we generally look at the top.
The young ones doing badly mean the next generation will be worse, not this one.

Anyway on young vs old- Raonic is currently bossing Blake- Raonic has been on much better form this summer than Tomic and other young players.

That's exactly what I said.

So this could be a 'golden era' (whatever the f*ck that means), but we are in the knowledge we are going to drop down into a Potassium era soon.

I would wait though. I would not be surprised if soon a player emerged, either one who is already doing OK like Raonic who gets big, or a teenager whose name we do not know yet.

Almagro beats Jack Sock. Sock played really well, but Almagro played better.

Sock and johnson have been impressive both these guys are just making their debut I think they will be good players in the future top 30 type guys.

It Must Be Love wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:Socal is right in saying Tomic was on bad form this summer... really bad form in-fact.
However BB+Socal you do realise that if we are looking at a strength of a generation we generally look at the top.
The young ones doing badly mean the next generation will be worse, not this one.

Anyway on young vs old- Raonic is currently bossing Blake- Raonic has been on much better form this summer than Tomic and other young players.

That's exactly what I said.

So this could be a 'golden era' (whatever the f*ck that means), but we are in the knowledge we are going to drop down into a Potassium era soon.

I would wait though. I would not be surprised if soon a player emerged, either one who is already doing OK like Raonic who gets big, or a teenager whose name we do not know yet.

If you think there can be a Golden Era with crap at the youngest end, sure.

bogbrush wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:Socal is right in saying Tomic was on bad form this summer... really bad form in-fact.
However BB+Socal you do realise that if we are looking at a strength of a generation we generally look at the top.
The young ones doing badly mean the next generation will be worse, not this one.

Anyway on young vs old- Raonic is currently bossing Blake- Raonic has been on much better form this summer than Tomic and other young players.

That's exactly what I said.

So this could be a 'golden era' (whatever the f*ck that means), but we are in the knowledge we are going to drop down into a Potassium era soon.

I would wait though. I would not be surprised if soon a player emerged, either one who is already doing OK like Raonic who gets big, or a teenager whose name we do not know yet.

If you think there can be a Golden Era with crap at the youngest end, sure.

Well yes there can.
It just means the next generation will not be as 'golden'...

The phrase is Golden Era, not Golden Generation.

I find it amazing to have a period in the game without a young player truly competing. Can't remember ever seeing it. And it's not just the almighty top 4, weak era retiring relics like Roddick, Hewitt, Ferrer are far too good for them.

Incredibly tedious really to have tennis with no Becker, McEnroe, Chang, Wilander, Sampras or Hewitt coming along and throwing up surprises as teenagers. Feels like an age class event, like the Seniors but just a bit younger.

You don't need a young player competing to have high quality tennis

What it does mean though is that in the future the quality could dip.

Well both Raonic and Del Po are real young del po has been around since 17 so everyone thinks he is very old I think he is 23 or 24 and Murray and Djoko are only a little older. Raonic is the youngest and the furthest away but maybe this is his tournament. I think he is in with a shout against Andy if the conditions are playing quick. Raonic can doing anything lopez can do better so maybe he will do it. I might even go out on a limb and take the upset.

socal1976 wrote:Well both Raonic and Del Po are real young del po has been around since 17 so everyone thinks he is very old I think he is 23 or 24 and Murray and Djoko are only a little older. Raonic is the youngest and the furthest away but maybe this is his tournament. I think he is in with a shout against Andy if the conditions are playing quick. Raonic can doing anything lopez can do better so maybe he will do it. I might even go out on a limb and take the upset.

Just a quick tennis class.

23/24 isn't young.

Becker won Wimbledon at 17. Chang the French at 17. John McEnroe appeared at the Wimbledon semis as a qualifier aged 18. Pete Sampras won the US Open at 19. Wilander got the French at 17, beating Lendl and Vilas.

Those are successful young players.

It Must Be Love wrote:You don't need a young player competing to have high quality tennis

What it does mean though is that in the future the quality could dip.

Oh dear, what a narrow view to take.

Shall I so you understand?

bogbrush wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:You don't need a young player competing to have high quality tennis

What it does mean though is that in the future the quality could dip.

Oh dear, what a narrow view to take.

Shall I so you understand?

I don't get it. Both young and old players can play high quality tennis.
A lack of younger players would mean the there is a lack of talent in the next generation: i.e. the Nadal, Murray, Djokovic group have done well- but the Tomic-Raonic-Dimitrov group will not be as good.

It Must Be Love wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:You don't need a young player competing to have high quality tennis

What it does mean though is that in the future the quality could dip.

Oh dear, what a narrow view to take.

Shall I so you understand?

I don't get it. Both young and old players can play high quality tennis.
A lack of younger players would mean the there is a lack of talent in the next generation: i.e. the Nadal, Murray, Djokovic group have done well- but the Tomic-Raonic-Dimitrov group will not be as good.

No, you don't get it.

Have you considered the stimulation and excitement that surprising new players bring to the game? I can understand in a way because watching tennis today simply doesn't have it but my experience of watching tennis stretches back to the mid 70's and I've seen the game benefit though those years from that aspect.

Because we don't have that now - probably mostly because of equipment and condition changes - we watch the same narrow field contest the same stages of just about every event. Repetitive. Unsurprising. Missing something.

So you're talking about the lack of depth outside the top 4. Yes, I get you now.
I think any challenge would just be as exciting, but I can see why you think a younger player creating big shocks is more engrossing than an older player.

It Must Be Love wrote:So you're talking about the lack of depth outside the top 4. Yes, I get you now.
I think any challenge would just be as exciting, but I can see why you think a younger player creating big shocks is more engrossing than an older player.

No, not depth - new players who surprise us and bring something we've not seen before.

Berdych and Tsonga provide our current version of depth but even if they were better they wouldn't bring novelty. Only new young players can do that.

bogbrush wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:So you're talking about the lack of depth outside the top 4. Yes, I get you now.
I think any challenge would just be as exciting, but I can see why you think a younger player creating big shocks is more engrossing than an older player.

No, not depth - new players who surprise us and bring something we've not seen before.

Berdych and Tsonga provide our current version of depth but even if they were better they wouldn't bring novelty. Only new young players can do that.

I agree, probably because you have more anticipation of what could happen in their career, while with older players you know they don't have that much potential in the future.

BB... Regarding Tomic specifically, TA and quite a few well known coaches (including Roche) contribute. He may improve in the future, as most players do.

Tomic is the youngest player, after Becker to reach W QFs since 1986.

He deserves a break, IMVHO. His attitude does need some work as well.

laverfan wrote:BB... Regarding Tomic specifically, TA and quite a few well known coaches (including Roche) contribute. He may improve in the future, as most players do.

Tomic is the youngest player, after Becker to reach W QFs since 1986.

He deserves a break, IMVHO. His attitude does need some work as well.

Did you see his press conference? He needs a smack in the head.

bogbrush wrote:

laverfan wrote:BB... Regarding Tomic specifically, TA and quite a few well known coaches (including Roche) contribute. He may improve in the future, as most players do.

Tomic is the youngest player, after Becker to reach W QFs since 1986.

He deserves a break, IMVHO. His attitude does need some work as well.

Did you see his press conference? He needs a smack in the head.

Yes, I do recall a certain Will Drum (I think) being asked, what is your name followed by I will remember you. He is young'un. He will become wiser as he travels and gains more experience.

laverfan wrote:... Regarding Tomic ... He may improve in the future, as most players do. ..

The Darling Buds of May?

bogbrush wrote:
Did you see his press conference? He needs a smack in the head.

Just watched this. Utter disgrace. If he's going to have an attitude like that he should at least ally it some good performances.

I was going to make a comment about him not being the kind of person I want to see at the top of the game but I think his chances of actually getting there are increasingly slim.

During the latter part of the Sampras years I stopped watching tennis because it was all too predictable and Sampras unfortunately did not have any personality.

A certain Swiss guy rekindled my interest in tennis and he is the guy I watch most. However in the last 2-3 years my watching tennis has dwindled drastically. I actually get bored now even when Federer is playing and winning.

Frankly if a top 3 player plays anyone from the top 5-10 then the match is just not competitive. Murray is a bit different becUse Murray manages to make things difficult for himself.

The game is going to seriously suffer once Federer and/or Nadal retire

Coolpixel it is never to replace a federer or a Nadal in the game. But I think Del Po and Murray are not finished products and I think people will see how much Novak has to offer as well. You can not replace a federer but fed could play good quality tennis for another couple of years and these guys will all get better eventhough they are very strong now. Look at the current trend where tennis players are having their best years in their mid to late 20s so the three players I mentioned in my mind will still get better over the next couple of years.