Berto V Ortiz

First topic message reminder :

What a fight. For anyone who didn't catch it, here is a link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITM-EUbcSqI

azania wrote:I come to my conclusions based on Pac's many weaknesses. I dont think he hits as hard as Berto and the punches that floored Ortiz were ones in which he was coming in. Is he therefore chinny? The first one was more a flash KD than anything else. He wasn't too hurt in either of them.

Pac has not fought a live opponent since MAB. Even then, MAB was at the tail end of his brilliance.

Ortiz seems to be a confidence fighter. Pac is a fighter who gives the opponents confidence because he is easy to hit. I'm not saying that Ortiz is that good, but rather Pac is really not very good. A close analysis of his recod post MAB displays alarming holes hence I always place an asterix next to his name.

Your giving Pacquiao zero benefit of the doubt and Ortiz every benefit going. This so called weak defence of Pacquaio has seen him down how many times? Yet Ortiz has been floored numerous times and is far more hittable than Pacquiao. You are taking one weakness from Pacquiao as the basis and ignoring all his advantages. Ortiz was floored coming in against Berto? Exactly. What do you think its going to be like against the far more accurate and faster Pacquiao? Hes going to be coming towards Pacquiao the whole time with his open defence trying to land on him.

ts pretty ridiculous to say that Pacquiao has not fought a live opponent since MAB. They can be criticised in various forms but not written off. Theres literally no advantage Ortiz has over Pacquiao except perhaps power. Any weakness Pacquiao may have is more extreme in Ortiz.

I dont get how you can use Pacquiaos defence as the basis for his defeat yet not acknowledge Ortiz own defence which is worse and has seen him hit the deck far more often, get hit far more often and will be in far more danger against the more faster, more accurate and high volume puncher of Pacquiao? Especially as Ortiz will be coming forward which is exactly how he was caught and floored by Berto.

I back Ortiz because he is a crisp puncher and throws straight punches as well as being able to mix it up when needed. Pac is not a big puncher. Both have questionable defences and Ortiz possible has a weak chin. But Pac gets marked up easily.

I acknowledge that Ortiz will be a huge underdog for much of what you say and in all likelhood Pac should win. But I believe many are under-estimating Ortiz's ability and placing far too much emphasis on Pac's wins which should have an asterix against many post MAB.

Ortiz puts in a good performance and now he is the man to challenge Manny. Lets jump on the bandwagon.

Lets not forget, Ortiz quit like a dog against Maidana because he didnt want to hinder his looks.

He needs to avenge that loss (possibly at WW), make 2/3 defences against some quality fighters then go looking for the big fights. He is far to open and Manny would literally have a field day.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Ortiz puts in a good performance and now he is the man to challenge Manny. Lets jump on the bandwagon.

Lets not forget, Ortiz quit like a dog against Maidana because he didnt want to hinder his looks.

He needs to avenge that loss (possibly at WW), make 2/3 defences against some quality fighters then go looking for the big fights. He is far to open and Manny would literally have a field day.

He was drained against Maidana.

I agree with Jack.

Ortiz looked good against Berto, but he was pretty easy to hit, and Manny would be a very different kettle of fish and a step up in class from Berto.

Always a puncher's chance, of course, but in my opinion that would be about it.

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Ortiz puts in a good performance and now he is the man to challenge Manny. Lets jump on the bandwagon.

Lets not forget, Ortiz quit like a dog against Maidana because he didnt want to hinder his looks.

He needs to avenge that loss (possibly at WW), make 2/3 defences against some quality fighters then go looking for the big fights. He is far to open and Manny would literally have a field day.

He was drained against Maidana.

Of course he was

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Ortiz puts in a good performance and now he is the man to challenge Manny. Lets jump on the bandwagon.

Lets not forget, Ortiz quit like a dog against Maidana because he didnt want to hinder his looks.

He needs to avenge that loss (possibly at WW), make 2/3 defences against some quality fighters then go looking for the big fights. He is far to open and Manny would literally have a field day.

He was drained against Maidana.

Of course he was

Oh come on. He weighed 161 on fight night. How he managed to boil down to 140 only got knows. He looks as though he would be a big LMW also. Look at the Maidana fight again. He gassed. Look at the berto fight. The added weight improved his stamina.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Ortiz puts in a good performance and now he is the man to challenge Manny. Lets jump on the bandwagon.

Lets not forget, Ortiz quit like a dog against Maidana because he didnt want to hinder his looks.

He needs to avenge that loss (possibly at WW), make 2/3 defences against some quality fighters then go looking for the big fights. He is far to open and Manny would literally have a field day.

He did look drained at LWW would be interesting to see how he would do against Maidana at WW. Nowhere near ready to fight Manny needs a few defences first. He might get lucky and catch Manny on the way down right place right time sort of thing but I doubt it.

Anyone got a link to watch this can't find it on youtube

Was a shock to see Ortiz dominate so much physically. 161lbs on the night (vs 155) tells me he isn't going back to LWW. Berto has been there for the taking, didn't think Ortiz would be the man to do it, but credit to him. Looked very powerful and sharp, as they said 'fought like a man possessed'.

Scottrf wrote:Was a shock to see Ortiz dominate so much physically. 161lbs on the night (vs 155) tells me he isn't going back to LWW. Berto has been there for the taking, didn't think Ortiz would be the man to do it, but credit to him. Looked very powerful and sharp, as they said 'fought like a man possessed'.

It didn't surprise me. I had always rated Ortiz. 161 suggests he should never been at LWW.

azania wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Was a shock to see Ortiz dominate so much physically. 161lbs on the night (vs 155) tells me he isn't going back to LWW. Berto has been there for the taking, didn't think Ortiz would be the man to do it, but credit to him. Looked very powerful and sharp, as they said 'fought like a man possessed'.

It didn't surprise me. I had always rated Ortiz. 161 suggests he should never been at LWW.

Sure. Did you pick Berto ironically then?

Scottrf wrote:

azania wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Was a shock to see Ortiz dominate so much physically. 161lbs on the night (vs 155) tells me he isn't going back to LWW. Berto has been there for the taking, didn't think Ortiz would be the man to do it, but credit to him. Looked very powerful and sharp, as they said 'fought like a man possessed'.

It didn't surprise me. I had always rated Ortiz. 161 suggests he should never been at LWW.

Sure. Did you pick Berto ironically then?

Nope. I picked Ortiz by KO. The Collazo fight was the template that showed Berto to be more hype than substance. Good, but not that good. Ortiz has the potential to be very good if his chin holds up.

Oh come on, you know there's a search function right? https://www.606v2.com/t2810-berto-v-ortiz-is-this-a-given?highlight=berto

The difference is that I said he SHOULD win.

And he should have won by playing on Ortiz obvious frailties and questions. The forst KD gave a confidence fighter like Ortiz all he needed.