Scarlets vs Ospreys - THE BIG DERBY TEAMS ANNOUNCED and live match-day thread

[Smirnoffpriest]

RaboDirect Pro12: Scarlets v Ospreys
Venue: Parc y Scarlets, LlanelliDate: Friday, 21 September
Kick-off: 19:05 BST
TEAMS ANNOUNCED

Scarlets team v Ospreys Friday 21st September 2012, Parc y Scarlets kick-off 7.05pm:
15 Liam Williams, 14 George North, 13 Jonathan Davies, 12 Scott Williams, 11 Andy Fenby, 10 Rhys Priestland, 9 Tavis Knoyle, 1 Phil John, 2 Ken Owens, 3 Deacon Manu, 4 George Earle, 5 Richard Kelly, 6 Aaron Shingler, 7 Josh Turnbull, 8 Rob McCusker (capt).
Replacements:
16 Matthew Rees, 17 Peter Edwards, 18 Samson Lee, 19 Sione Timani, 20 Johnathan Edwards, 21 Gareth Davies, 22 Aled Thomas, 23 Gareth Maule.

Ospreys15 Richard Fussell 14 Hanno Dirksen 13 Tom Isaacs 12 Andrew Bishop 11 Tom Grabham 10 Dan Biggar 9 Kahn Fotuali'i 1 Duncan Jones 2 Richard Hibbard 3 Aaron Jarvis 4 Alun Wyn Jones (Capt) 5 Ian Evans 6 George Stowers 7 Justin Tipuric 8 Joe Bearman
REPLACEMENTS
16 Scott Baldwin 17 Ryan Bevington 18 Joe Rees 19 Jonathan Thomas 20 Ryan Jones 21 Rhys Webb 22 Matthew Morgan 23 Jonathan Spratt

Ospreys coach Steve Tandy is hoping his players use the occasion of Friday's Welsh derby at Scarlets to put a dismal start to the season behind them.
But Tandy hopes the 21 September clash with unbeaten west Wales rivals Scarlets will provide a turning point.
"We've always performed in derbies, we're a pretty proud bunch and I know that they'll be hurting," said Tandy.
"So there's probably no better game for us than going down to the Scarlets and hopfully prove a point... really show that we are still a decent team, and get those basic areas of our game right.

An opening defeat away at Treviso - Ospreys' first loss to an Italian side - was followed by a home loss to Ulster and then another humbling at their Liberty Stadium home by Glasgow.

Scarlets' start to the season, in contrast to Ospreys, has been impressive and the Parc y Scarlets side sit unbeaten at the top of the Pro12 table with victories over Leinster, Glasgow and Connacht.

PS - THERE MAY BE A TRIBUTE TO NEVIN, GRAHAM AND NOEL SPENCE. I am unsure of the details but have heard that the crowd and announcer may sing Stand Up for the Ulstermen before the Scarlets/Ospreys game.

Could anyone with more/definate information comment please?

[Kingshu]

Honestly Ospreys have a tough couple of games, Scarlets away and Munster at home,

Osprey going 5 games with 0 wins is a realistic prospect, and one from which play off places are very difficult to get to.

For this I see them being more fired up to make up ground on Scarlets, and win.

However if they don't get fired up and win this game it will be a very long hard season for Ospreys fans.

[Smirnoffpriest]

Yup, it's strange with the game coming up as a Scarlet fan I'm really pleased that our form is fantastic and Ospreys are playing poorly - BUT this means we could expect a big Ospreys backlash, with them giving everything not to go 4 (or 5) games without a win.

And then also Wales needing a good Ospreys to give us a chance in the AIs.

It's strange but for this game I'm hopeful that we can stop the Ospeys forwards clicking enough, so we'll get enough ball to score points/tries. (at least I hope! )

[Guest]

Priest -

It is being put forward by Scarlets fans to sing Stand Up for the Ulstermen after the minutes' silence.

Tommo, the stadium announcer, has been contacted so he can put the idea out on the radio to make more people aware and maybe make an announcement for it on Friday night. I know fans will be singing it regardless

[Smirnoffpriest]

Ok cheers dreamer, thanks for the info

[ScarletSpiderman]

It is being put forward by Scarlets fans to sing Stand Up for the Ulstermen after the minutes' silence.

As much as I dislike the song, I honestly doubt you will find a fan of any region/province/club who will not be joining in with that at all of the games in the Rabo whether in Ireland, Scotland, Wales or Italy.

As for the match I think I would be happier going into the match with both teams unbeaten than I am with the Ospreys going without a win into the match. The amount of people I have spoken to, who think 'we' (when last season they would have said 'you') should put a a huge score on them, really worries me. I think the final score will probably be either 10-9 or 10-12 (2 unconverted tires v 3/4 pens)

[Guest]

Dim probs Priest. I think it's just a fantastic idea that was put forward by Munster and Leinster. Would be great if all clubs can do it

Looking forward to this match though yet weirdly apprehensive. The O's always raise their game for this one, and they are due to click soon. Be a tense 1st half I'm a thinking and a close result.

[Smirnoffpriest]

Yup it is a good idea.

As you say I reckon it'll be close, we may edge away towards the end, but it could go the other way and will be a tough battle.
Also if the breakdown is as big a mess as it was in the Dragons/Blues game then it will hinder our flowing rugby and leave us relying on Priestlands boot (both for points and tactical position). This could be a problem with Ryan Jones and Tupric in the O's side

[Smirnoffpriest]

Apparently Rhodri is out for 12 weeks and will have shoulder surgery according to BBC Sport - very bad news for us, leaves us with Phil John and Rob Evans with Manu able to come across to fill the gap - but seeing as he's our current 1st TH it'll just create another problem at TH.

This looks bad for the Ospreys game but even worse for the HEC and pre-xmas Rabo games!

[profitius]

Is the balance of power shifting in Welsh rugby? I thought the Ospreys might struggle this season and they've made a bad start. Scarlets are flyign and playing some great rugby.

The Ospreys don't have the advantage of a bigger squad anymore either. It should be an interesting game. Ospreys can still beat anyone and are going in as underdogs which makes them more dangerous.

[Guest]

Rob Evans is recovering from a hip op, so we've Manu and Pete that can cover Phil John at LH. A bit short on cover there. Will be better when Ardiaanse arives but LH could be a worry for us going into Europe.

[Smirnoffpriest]

Ask that question at the end of the season, definately before the end of this game is premature.
Ospreys are going through what the scarlets went through 4 seasons ago but they are in a much stronger position than the scarlets were

[Smirnoffpriest]

Rob Evans is recovering from a hip op, so we've Manu and Pete that can cover Phil John at LH. A bit short on cover there. Will be better when Ardiaanse arives but LH could be a worry for us going into Europe.

Thats even worse than i thought, adriaanse better be good now as if hes not then we're royally screwed and even if he is good we're still in a bit of trouble.

Shamre we didnt get paul james... :wink:

[Guest]

great interview with George North here

http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/news/tv/5192.php

[Smirnoffpriest]

I love the quote from North - "I just catch the ball, run and score!" lol

[Smirnoffpriest]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19636451
According to the BBC website Ryan Jones is out as well as Adam Jones. Unless this is just mind games from Humphries to throw the Scarlets off guard.

[XR]

one would have to own a mind to ply such games

[Smirnoffpriest]

one would have to own a mind to ply such games

[Smirnoffpriest]

Ospreys have got no chance of scoring against us, news from an insider reveals that we're employing some revolutionary new tactics -

Gareth Jenkins ‏@Gypo_
Spent the afternoon working on the Zumba Blitz Defence.George's feet combo as he hits the bags is frightening....#Training

Gareth Jenkins ‏@Gypo_
Have had pitch mowed in a circle effect.Will cause Dan Biggar to run around like a dog trying to catch his tail... #Ospreys#Woof

[overlordofthewest]

I am more than a little apprehensive about this game. The Ospreys haven't turned into a bad side overnight. Despite some good play from Glasgow and Ulster I still think the Ospreys threw the games away. Both were games they could have won and as for Treviso, the Ospreys could/should still have won despite being a man down.

The Scarlets however are on fire and winning. When we play attractive rugby we forget our flaws. Last week near the end of the game we could have lost despite being 3 - 1 up on tries by leaving so many points in kicks behind, 6 points in it and Connacht with the ball, the interception may well have saved us. Our set piece hasn't been brilliant either. What we have though is the ability to move the ball about and now some confidence too. Add the end of last seasons wins to the beginning of this year and we've on a fair bit of a winning streak.

I predict an error strewn match with the Ospreys capitalising on penalties at the breakdown in the first half. Then George North will smash their picnic up in the second half.

Scarlets to win by 6.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Scarlets team v Ospreys Friday 21st September 2012, Parc y Scarlets kick-off 7.05pm:

15 Liam Williams,
14 George North,
13 Jonathan Davies,
12 Scott Williams,
11 Andy Fenby,
10 Rhys Priestland,
9 Tavis Knoyle,

1 Phil John,
2 Ken Owens,
3 Deacon Manu,
4 George Earle,
5 Richard Kelly,
6 Aaron Shingler,
7 Josh Turnbull,
8 Rob McCusker (capt).

Replacements:
16 Matthew Rees,
17 Peter Edwards,
18 Samson Lee,
19 Sione Timani,
20 Johnathan Edwards,
21 Gareth Davies,
22 Aled Thomas,
23 Gareth Maule.

[ScarletSpiderman]

The Ospreys team to play the Scarlets at Parc y Scarlets on Friday 21st September, KO 7.05pm, is as follows:

15 Richard Fussell
14 Hanno Dirksen
13 Tom Isaacs
12 Andrew Bishop
11 Tom Grabham
10 Dan Biggar
9 Kahn Fotuali'i

1 Duncan Jones
2 Richard Hibbard
3 Aaron Jarvis
4 Alun Wyn Jones (Capt)
5 Ian Evans
6 George Stowers
7 Justin Tipuric
8 Joe Bearman

REPLACEMENTS

16 Scott Baldwin
17 Ryan Bevington
18 Joe Rees
19 Jonathan Thomas
20 Ryan Jones
21 Rhys Webb
22 Matthew Morgan
23 Jonathan Spratt

The following players were not considered because of injury:
Adam Jones - Knee
Eli Walker - Shoulder
James Goode - Groin
Tom Habberfield - Ankle
James King - Shoulder
Ashley Beck - Pelvis

[ScarletSpiderman]

I think we actually have the edge in nearly every shirt, that must be a first.

[Morgannwg]

Hard to see past a convincing Scarlets win here. I notice Knoyle is starting, is he considered first choice now? Same with Fenby, who I don't rate, but his form is very good.

[Guest]

Knoyle has always been first choice when fully fit Morg, great to see him coming back into good form after a season blighted by injury.

Both excited and nervous for this.

Excited as we are in form and have the players to really get a good win here. Nervous because this is the O's, form book goes out the window at derby's and the fact we never seem to play well in front of a packed stadium!

oooh why can't it be tomorrow already.....

[Smirnoffpriest]

According to the Scarlets wesbite there's only a few tickets left and their expecting PyS to be packed to the rafters.

I think Ospreys have the edge in the front 5 and a pretty good scrum, otherwise I'm very comfortable with our lineup - it's just what sort of game it is, how dry will it be and how the ref lets the game flow.

As dreamer says Knoyle has always been 1st choice when fit, and Fenby is our 1st choice wing now Lamont has left - he's been playing very well and looked threatening in the 2 games I've seen him (couldn't tell much from the highlights of the Connacht game).

[Guest]

He didn't play against Connacht priest (which annoyed me greatly as I have him tipped to be top Scarlets' try scorer, so he needs to play!)

They edge us in the front 5 but everywhere else I think we are better.

They are going to look to keep the ball from us, in all honestly I think that's all they can do, but I am worried. us being this big a favourite hasn't happened for years and the O's will want to do anything to stop us winning.

[Morgannwg]

That's some mismanagement leaving the better scrum-half on the bench. It's what made Martin Roberts leave for Northampton. Davies is the best 9 in Wales and should hopefully be called up to the Wales squad this autumn.

[Guest]

In your opinion Davies is the better scrum half. In performances so far this season, Tav is streets ahead of him

[Smirnoffpriest]

Of course I forgot Reynolds started didn't he? :facepalm:

Yup I'm worried that, as it's a derby where form goes out of the window, then things could go t!ts up.

But hopefully we should make it 4 from 4 and give the Ospreys a real need to prove to Munster that their good next game

[Smirnoffpriest]

In your opinion Davies is the better scrum half. In performances so far this season, Tav is streets ahead of him

+1

[Smirnoffpriest]

While Roberts was good and I was disappointed with him going, he was behind Knoyle - IMO deservedly so, and him going has allowed Davies to come through.

[ScarletSpiderman]

That's some mismanagement leaving the better scrum-half on the bench. It's what made Martin Roberts leave for Northampton. Davies is the best 9 in Wales and should hopefully be called up to the Wales squad this autumn.

Its about matching the players to the team that they are against, and the game plan etc etc. I don't think Gareth Davies is being overlooked as such, just that Knoyle has the attributes that we want from our scrum half (for this game).

[Morgannwg]

What attributes?

[Smirnoffpriest]

Morg - we know you don't like Knoyle and think he's terrible. But can't you see that theres quite a few Scarlets fans who watch him all the time who think that Knoyle is quite good and the best Scrum Half at the region. Also the coaches for both Scarlets and Wales seem to see something in him

[gowales]

Bishop and Isaacs in the centre. There goes any chance of creativity. I'm not sure if they'll be able to contain Scott and JD either.

Grabham up against North

If the O's pack can man up we have a chance, if the Scarlets gain parity/start to dominate then we're toast.

[Morgannwg]

Scarlets supporters think that way about all their players though. And when you look at who's been capped in the past 2 years it appears it doesn't take much effort to get selected for Wales.

[Smirnoffpriest]

Scarlets supporters think that way about all their players though. And when you look at who's been capped in the past 2 years it appears it doesn't take much effort to get selected for Wales.

Why do you keep repeating this statement though? when you think Gareth Davies is better than a lot of Scarlets fans opinions, same with Scott Williams and one or two other players.

[bedfordwelsh]

Looking at the sides I would say Scarlets have the edge as seems a lot more first teamers available for them.

11-14 for the Scarlets look pretty impressive and 6-8 are no slouches either.

Would say the Os have edge in 2nd row whilst the back row battle favours the Scarlets.

Good to see Hibbard and Owens going up against each other.

Scarlets by 10 I reckon

[Morgannwg]

Well you're repeating yours so why can't I repeat mine?

You lot are boring me now anyway.

[ScarletSpiderman]

What attributes?

Knoyle is more physical, he is more solid defensively, and is less likely to put boot to ball. So against the Ospreys who have the majority of their strength in the pack it would make sense to have a scrumhalf who is more capable of dealing with this threat, to begin with, and then having someone who is more likely to snipe, chip and chase, and release the backs, come on in the second half to change the shape and style of the game against tiring players.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Morg - we know you don't like Knoyle and think he's terrible. But can't you see that theres quite a few Scarlets fans who watch him all the time who think that Knoyle is quite good and the best Scrum Half at the region. Also the coaches for both Scarlets and Wales seem to see something in him

Scarlets supporters think that way about all their players though. And when you look at who's been capped in the past 2 years it appears it doesn't take much effort to get selected for Wales.

I know we are all one eyed turks, but how can we think that all of our players are our best scrum half (or even the best in their position)?

MOst fans would say that the starting team for this match is more or less the first choice if the whole squad were fit (Stodds on wing for Fenby, Rhoddri at loosehead)

[Smirnoffpriest]

Well you're repeating yours so why can't I repeat mine?

You lot are boring me now anyway.

All I asked was that you consider that a lot of fans who watch him week in week out like Knoyle - and you responded by dismissing all Scarlets fans opinions!

[Smirnoffpriest]

Bishop and Isaacs in the centre. There goes any chance of creativity. I'm not sure if they'll be able to contain Scott and JD either.

Grabham up against North

If the O's pack can man up we have a chance, if the Scarlets gain parity/start to dominate then we're toast.

LOL - nice image.

I didn't realise it was Bishop in, I'd just looked through the team and assumed it was Beck - like you say there's not much creativity, but he will help if your looking for the forwards to beat us - he'll be able to take it up the middle and commit defenders a bit more than Beck would.

[glamorganalun]

I think we actually have the edge in nearly every shirt, that must be a first.

Except the front row, second row, 7 and most of the bench. I still think the Scarlets will win but if the Ospreys forwards turn up and play 10 man rugby it could be close. I suspect Stowers will be off at half time and replaced by R Jones, from a Scarlets point of view I would prefer Edwards to start to win ball on the ground.

[Smirnoffpriest]

While I agree that we could suffer from not having an out and out 7 in the traditional sense, the pairing of Shingler and Turnbull do very well for us and is preferable than having Edwards in the team, as he can be a bit of a liability at times.

[Morgannwg]

Now is Ospreys front row really that much better? On current form, Bevington and Jarvis, no. Duncan Jones probably just slightly better than his opposite number. Hibbard third choice behind the two Scarlets hookers. A good up and coming star at tighthead, who is on the bench.

[Smirnoffpriest]

We have last seasons 3rd choice LH as our starter and I'd say Ospreys LH is much better (or if you want to look at opposites, then he'll be coming up against Jarvis - not much in it but could go to Ospreys) and Manu has always been slated but I quite like him, Duncan I'd say is better (depending on what form he's in) but Bev is younger and could be better but is in bad form. They have a very good lcok pairing behind them as well though.

[Morgannwg]

Earle and Kelly look good too.

[Smirnoffpriest]

I'm really surprised and pleased by how well Kelly has been doing, as I expected him to be 5th choice lock this season, but he's keeping Timani out of the side and seems to be keeping Ball out as well.

Great to see, and great to have this level of strength in depth in our boiler house.

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