Aviva Premiership Round 4 Preview

Friday 21st September

Sale Sharks v London Welsh, Salford City Stadium, Salford 20:00 local

Sale Team: 15Rob Miller,14 Tom Brady,13 Johnny Leota,12 Sam Tuitupou,11 Mark Cueto,10 Danny Cipriani,9 Dwayne Peel,1 Eifion Roberts,2 Joe Ward,3 Vadim Cobilas,4 Richie Gray,5 Kearnan Myall,6 Mark Easter,7 David Seymour,8 Andy Powell

16 Tommy Taylor, 17 Ross Harrison, 18 Tony Buckley, 19 Fraser McKenzie,20 Richie Vernon, 21 Will Cliff, 22 Nick Macleod, 23 Corne Uys

London Welsh Team: 15 Tom Arscott, 14 Phil MacKenzie,13 Sonny Parker,12 Hudson Tonga'uiha,11 Nick Scott,10Gordon Ross,9 Tyson Keats,1 Franck Montanella,2 Neil Briggs,3 Paulica Ion,4 Jonathan Mills,5 Matt Corker,6 Daniel Browne,7 Mike Hills,8 Ed Jackson

16 Dan George,17 Tom Bristow,18 Arthur Joly,19 Kirill Kulemin,20 Ed Williamson,21 Nick Runciman,22 Ryan Davis,23 Seb Jewell


Saturday 22nd September

London Irish v Bath Rugby, Madejski Stadium, Reading 15:00 local

London Irish Team: 15. Tom Homer; 14. Topsy Ojo*13. Jonathan Joseph*; 12. Steven Shingler; 11. Marland Yarde 10. Ian Humphreys; 9. Tomás O’Leary*; 1. Max Lahiff; 2. Scott Lawson*; 3. Halani Aulika*; 4. Bryn Evans; 5. Matt Garvey; 6. Declan Danaher (Captain); 7. Jamie Gibson; 8. Ofisa Treviranus*

16. David Paice*; 17. Jerry Yanuyanutawa*; 18. Alan Cotter; 19. George Skivington; 20. Jon Fisher; 21. Anthony Watson; 22. Shane Geraghty*; 23. Jack Moates

Northampton Saints v Worcester Warriors, Franklin's Gardens, Northampton 15:00 local

Gloucester Rugby v London Wasps, Kingsholm, Gloucester 15:15 local

Gloucester Team: Rob Cook; Jonny May, Henry Trinder, Billy Twelvetrees, James Simpson-Daniel; Freddie Burns, Dan Robson; Nick Wood, Darren Dawidiuk, Rupert Harden; Tom Savage, Jim Hamilton (capt); Sione Kalamafoni, Andy Hazell, Ben Morgan

Huia Edmonds, Dan Murphy, Shaun Knight, Will James, Akapusi Qera, Dave Lewis, Mike Tindall, Martyn Thomas

Wasps Team: 15 Tommy Bell14 Tom Varndell13 Elliot Daly12 Andrea Masi11 Christian Wade10 Stephen Jones9 Joe Simpson1 Tim Payne2 T Rhys Thomas3 Zak Taulafo4 Tom Palmer5 Marco Wentzel (c)6 James Haskell7 Jonathan Poff8 Ashley Johnson

16 Tom Lindsay17 Simon McIntyre18 Fabio Staibano19 James Cannon20 Billy Vunipola21 Charlie Davies22 Nick Robinson23 Jack Wallace


Leicester Tigers v Harlequins, Welford Road, Leicester 17:30 local

Leicester Tigers Team: 15 Scott Hamilton 14 Niall Morris 13 Matt Smith 12 Anthony Allen 11 Vereniki Goneva 10 Toby Flood 9 Sam Harrison 1 Boris Stankovich 2 Tom Youngs 3 Martin Castrogiovanni 4 Graham Kitchener 5 Geoff Parling 6 Steve Mafi 7 Julian Salvi 8 Jordan Crane (c)

16 George Chuter 17 Dan Cole 18 Logovii Mulipola 19 Rob Andrew 20 Thomas Waldrom 21 Patrick Phibbs 22 George Ford 23 Adam Thompstone


Harlequins Team: 15. Mike Brown14. Tom Williams13. Matt Hopper12. Jordan Turner Hall11. Ugo Monye10. Nick Evans9. Danny Care1. Joe Marler2. Joe Gray3. James Johnston4. Olly Kohn5. George Robson6. Maurie Fa'asavalu7. Chris Robshaw ©8. Nick Easter

16. Rob Buchanan17. Darryl Marfo18. Will Collier19. Charlie Matthews20. Tom Guest21. Karl Dickson22. Rory Clegg23. Ross Chisholm


Sunday 23rd September

Exeter Chiefs v Saracens, Sandy Park 14:15 local, 13:15 GMT

Some interesting match ups this weekend, i'll post teams when they're put up by the clubs.

LT and Ozzy are busy this weekend so i'm posting the preview. (Any one know how I get the little team banners in there?)

My predictions for the round are:
Sale by 8- A close and Welsh will be boyd by last weekends result. But Sale at home should have too much.

London Irish by 3- Irish have to win this if they are to start turning their season around and while Bath look powerful they look limited too, expect Irish to just run run run at them.

Saints by 15- Too much muscle up front for Worcester away from home.

Gloucester by 5- A close game but home advantage should do it.

Saracens by 10- After last weekends dull fest Saracens will come out and lay down a marker and wuppin (sorry ASBO).

Some must win matches. Sale and LI will be desperate to break their duck, while Exeter will not want to lose a 3rd match in a row especially with the series of games they have coming up.

Come on yappy, none of this superstition nonsense, what's the score going to be in the Tigers Quins game?

I think this will be a weekend of home wins...

I think Tigers will get a home win. By 5.

Jimpy wrote:I think Tigers will get a home win. By 5.

I think that's the most likely result. But if Quins actually manage to play well for more than ten minutes at a time, or even if they put in two ten minute bursts of the quality they did against Wasps, and tighten up their defence for the remaining 60, it could be a different story.

We're going to get pumped. That is all.

Effervescing Elephant wrote:We're going to get pumped. That is all.

I know you had a bad result last weekend, but SP is such a hard place to come to, do you really think Sarries are going to beat you easily?

HongKongCherry wrote:

Effervescing Elephant wrote:We're going to get pumped. That is all.

I know you had a bad result last weekend, but SP is such a hard place to come to, do you really think Sarries are going to beat you easily?

No, I don't - if Sarries play like they have on their two previous visits tho, Carpe is right, we will get pumped; however, I'm expecting the boys to rebound strongly after last week's dismal showing

Tigers vs Quins front rows ( well and everywhere but particularly there) should be an epic contest. Cue the accusations of JJ scrummaging illegally!

What a quality round of matches;

Chiefs at home against Sarries, Tigers and Quins go head to head, Wasps go to take on Gloucester and London Irish will be at home against Bath.

They are four excellent prospects.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Tigers vs Quins front rows ( well and everywhere but particularly there) should be an epic contest. Cue the accusations of JJ scrummaging illegally!

I wouldn't say JJ scrummages illegally. In fact I wouldn't call what he does scrummaging at all!!

The only person's view on illegal scrummaging that counts is the refs. A prop that only ever scrummages legally is not a very good prop! I see TRP think you may struggle to keep hold of him after this season.

I think Sale & Saints will get home wins all the other games are potentially tight calls.

I fully expect LI & Exeter to up their games this week.

I agree with Stag a great round of matches & match ups.

Maybe. We'll see, I don't have access to Quins' finances. I think we'll make an effort to keep him, Nev and JJ are invaluable as 10s and THs are the "big players" so I doubt we'd allow ourselves to lose both

ChequeredJersey wrote:Tigers vs Quins front rows ( well and everywhere but particularly there) should be an epic contest. Cue the accusations of JJ scrummaging illegally!

Harsh to credit blame JJ with Quins interesting scrummaging. It is the whole front row as coached by turncoat Rowntree. As I said before watching them spend 30 minutes prior to the AP final kick off practising nothing other than snap wheeling the scrum was all you needed to know. As a former back row I have no idea how you go about countering a team that wheels it so expertly.

LondonTiger wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Tigers vs Quins front rows ( well and everywhere but particularly there) should be an epic contest. Cue the accusations of JJ scrummaging illegally!

Harsh to credit blame JJ with Quins interesting scrummaging. It is the whole front row as coached by turncoat Rowntree. As I said before watching them spend 30 minutes prior to the AP final kick off practising nothing other than snap wheeling the scrum was all you needed to know. As a former back row I have no idea how you go about countering a team that wheels it so expertly.

See how far you can cheat the ref regarding your loose forward bind to get the edge on their back row, hope the front row can practice the counter wheel, get the scrum half to see how offside he can be before he's pinged, actually help them wheel it to exaggerate it or spin it the full 180 and get it reset. Eventually --> penalty if a competent ref is on

ChequeredJersey wrote:Maybe. We'll see, I don't have access to Quins' finances. I think we'll make an effort to keep him, Nev and JJ are invaluable as 10s and THs are the "big players" so I doubt we'd allow ourselves to lose both

The way I understand it it may be hard to keep him and stay within the cap. the slight downside of being successful is that you turn players into internationals and therefore it costs more to keep them. (and of course you will see less of them). Eventually something has to snap. With Quins putting such an onus on developing English players (to their huge credit0 they may well have to let Johnston go if they are to keep all the players in the current EPS/Saxons swauds.

LondonTiger wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Maybe. We'll see, I don't have access to Quins' finances. I think we'll make an effort to keep him, Nev and JJ are invaluable as 10s and THs are the "big players" so I doubt we'd allow ourselves to lose both

The way I understand it it may be hard to keep him and stay within the cap. the slight downside of being successful is that you turn players into internationals and therefore it costs more to keep them. (and of course you will see less of them). Eventually something has to snap. With Quins putting such an onus on developing English players (to their huge credit0 they may well have to let Johnston go if they are to keep all the players in the current EPS/Saxons swauds.

Only if we keep Nev. One of them will probably be the marquee signing. So we'll keep one, but probably lose one

I hope it isn't just about money and NEv and JJ both stay. But if JJ goes, Sinckler is coming out of the academy and if he develops as fast as Marler did we will be OK. Well, more than OK.

As I said over the summer, JJ's bind is considerably less illegal than many THs, including the South African ones who didn't, IIRC, once get pinged for it over the summer. But then, pretty much all scrummaging is about being as illegal as the ref will let you get away with, and refs know two fifths of naff all about the scrum. At the Sale game, Sir pinged Marler for binding on the arm, which given he invariably binds almost on the belt is, erm, a bit odd to say the least.

Anyway, it will be a titanic battle of the packs and I am sure that Tigers will be out for revenge after the final scrum of the final. I don't expect Quins to take more than a bonus point from the game, but I shall travel more in hope than expectation...

Ok a bp loss would be fine by me, better a draw or a win obviously but we must get something out of it.

Sale Sharks v London Welsh, Salford City Stadium, Salford 20:00 local - Sale to win by 2. No TBP. Disappointingly close but will kickstart their season.

Saturday 22nd September

London Irish v Bath Rugby, Madejski Stadium, Reading 15:00 local Bath continue Irish's miseries by stealing an 8 point win away!

Northampton Saints v Worcester Warriors, Franklin's Gardens, Northampton 15:00 local Saints by 10 even without Foden

Gloucester Rugby v London Wasps, Kingsholm, Gloucester 15:15 local High scoring game, Gloucester win by 4

Leicester Tigers v Harlequins, Welford Road, Leicester 17:30 local No comment

Sunday 23rd September

Exeter Chiefs v Saracens, Sandy Park 14:15 local, 13:15 GMT Sarries win by 7

CJ, I don't think Foden will be much of a loss, he's been dissappointingly off form since the 6N's and although managing a few nice touches hasn't hit the heights of the last two seasons. Over played maybe? Or maybe other things on his mind( stunning wife etc...) maybe this enforced rest will actually do him some good.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Sale Sharks v London Welsh, Salford City Stadium, Salford 20:00 local - Sale to win by 2. No TBP. Disappointingly close but will kickstart their season.

Saturday 22nd September

London Irish v Bath Rugby, Madejski Stadium, Reading 15:00 local Bath continue Irish's miseries by stealing an 8 point win away!

Northampton Saints v Worcester Warriors, Franklin's Gardens, Northampton 15:00 local Saints by 10 even without Foden

Gloucester Rugby v London Wasps, Kingsholm, Gloucester 15:15 local High scoring game, Gloucester win by 4

Leicester Tigers v Harlequins, Welford Road, Leicester 17:30 local No comment

Sunday 23rd September

Exeter Chiefs v Saracens, Sandy Park 14:15 local, 13:15 GMT Sarries win by 7

I'm sorry, but you've got to fancy Sale to win by more than two points.

I fancied Exeter to beat welsh by only 6 and it turns out I should have gone further with my instinct. So, no, I don't

ChequeredJersey wrote:I fancied Exeter to beat welsh by only 6 and it turns out I should have gone further with my instinct. So, no, I don't

"Leicester Tigers v Harlequins, Welford Road, Leicester 17:30 local No comment"

What kind of score is a 'no comment'?

You can't play without balls you know...

Tigers by 7, Quins just pinch the losing bp at the death thanks to some nice kicking from Nev

Tigers by 5, unfortunately

I think Tigers by 5 too, but wouldn't be suprised if Tigers' annual early season yips see 'Quins grab a win here.

Both Tigers and Sarries will start as favourites in their respective encounters but will need to both up their game. Really important for both to build up momentum.

Exeter will be looking to bounce back from their last two matches but will be tough against opposition who really enjoy Sandy Park.

Quins have built up decent momentum. I actually think they could catch Leicester cold. Realistically Leicester should win but they haven't exactly been on fire.

I'm not sure how you can gauge momentum after just 3 matches, but I agree that 'Quins seem to be playing the better of the two teams.

3 bonus point wins is pretty good momentum IMO. Okay Quins haven't beaten any of the top sides but you can only beat what is in front of you.

beshocked wrote:Quins have built up decent momentum.

I'm sure CJ & Yappy will jump on me for this, but i disagree.

We didn't get off for the coach for the first 60 minutes of R1, had a few butter fingers for R2, and proper butter fingers and pinned into out own half far too much for a running rugby side for R3 (good defense practice though ). I'd say that it shows some of the promise from the end of the last season but Quins haven't really sprinted out the gate Shocked.

Then again, neither have a lot of other sides. I suspect i'll have no finger nails left by Saturday evening!

Sale by 8 - just denying LW an LBP
LI finally stop the flood of points they are conceding, helped by Bath's inability to do anything other than kick the ball. however Bath defence too strong as they win with a very late Barkley penalty.
Worcester to give Saints a fright, but in the end home win by 9.
Gloucester outmuscle Wasps up front. however their backs continue to struggle to put a performance on the pitch. Wasps score 3 trys to 1 but still lose.
Tigers v Quins - will wait to see the teams.
Exeter-Sarries. If Hodgson starts, Sarries to win by more than a score. If not a tight game that could go either way.

beshocked wrote:3 bonus point wins is pretty good momentum IMO. Okay Quins haven't beaten any of the top sides but you can only beat what is in front of you.

I'll agree to disagree.

Incidentally, the BBC are running a story about Chris Robshaw saying that he hopes that it will not reach the point where rugby players wont be able to continue 'mixing' with the general public, in light of the attack on Chris Ashton last weekend. Amusingly, the story starts off like this:

'England captain Chris Robshaw hopes the recent incident involving winer Chris Ashton does not force rugby players to stay "locked away at home".

Freudyan slip?

normally id have no problem backing the tigers at welford road but the performance at wembley surprised me.

i still think tigers will win but they'll have to play better than last week.

Jimpy wrote:

beshocked wrote:3 bonus point wins is pretty good momentum IMO. Okay Quins haven't beaten any of the top sides but you can only beat what is in front of you.

I'll agree to disagree.

Incidentally, the BBC are running a story about Chris Robshaw saying that he hopes that it will not reach the point where rugby players wont be able to continue 'mixing' with the general public, in light of the attack on Chris Ashton last weekend. Amusingly, the story starts off like this:

'England captain Chris Robshaw hopes the recent incident involving winer Chris Ashton does not force rugby players to stay "locked away at home".

Freudyan slip?

Just sloppy BBC journalism. Not the first time.

Quins most definitely have momentum.

However this is their first big test this season - with Sarries to follow next week. Winning big against struggling teams gives you a certain confidence - but does it actually prepare you for these tough matches?

LondonTiger wrote:Quins most definitely have momentum.

However this is their first big test this season - with Sarries to follow next week. Winning big against struggling teams gives you a certain confidence - but does it actually prepare you for these tough matches?

We'll find out on Saturday!

LondonTiger wrote:Quins most definitely have momentum.

However this is their first big test this season - with Sarries to follow next week. Winning big against struggling teams gives you a certain confidence - but does it actually prepare you for these tough matches?

Or, indeed, does it translate into any meaningful momentum?

beshocked wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

beshocked wrote:3 bonus point wins is pretty good momentum IMO. Okay Quins haven't beaten any of the top sides but you can only beat what is in front of you.

I'll agree to disagree.

Incidentally, the BBC are running a story about Chris Robshaw saying that he hopes that it will not reach the point where rugby players wont be able to continue 'mixing' with the general public, in light of the attack on Chris Ashton last weekend. Amusingly, the story starts off like this:

'England captain Chris Robshaw hopes the recent incident involving winer Chris Ashton does not force rugby players to stay "locked away at home".

Freudyan slip?

Just sloppy BBC journalism. Not the first time.

Nah, 'sloppy journalism' would be the journalist not doing their research properly, or plagerising another's work. A miss-spelling like this, especially in this context could, i suggest (tongue in cheek) have been a Freudyan slip...

The wins won't, though the calmness at Sale will help as will the comeback against Wasps. I still have Tigers as close winners now

Irish by 5

That is all.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Irish by 5

That is all.

You mean they'll have had another 40 points put past them by 5pm?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:

Effervescing Elephant wrote:We're going to get pumped. That is all.

I know you had a bad result last weekend, but SP is such a hard place to come to, do you really think Sarries are going to beat you easily?

No, I don't - if Sarries play like they have on their two previous visits tho, Carpe is right, we will get pumped; however, I'm expecting the boys to rebound strongly after last week's dismal showing

Just to clarify, if we play as badly as we did last Sunday and, like As says, Sarries replicate their last visit we will get pumped. However, we can't possibly play as badly as we did at LW. Richie would personally skin the team alive if they did. I've just learnt a valuable lesson that if you act too bullish and take too much for granted you generally end up disappointed! I'm keeping my feet firmly on the ground.

LondonTiger wrote:
Gloucester outmuscle Wasps up front. however their backs continue to struggle to put a performance on the pitch. Wasps score 3 trys to 1 but still lose.

I think you're spot on there. Who would've thought it would be our forwards making headlines? The backs so far have looked disjointed and pretty clueless in defence. From what I've seen of Wasps so far this season their back row look very effective, but their front 5 aren't up to much. I'd love a repeat of the Boxing Day mauling last season, but think it will be far, far closer this time.

Tigers were looking like try scoring machines till they got to Saracens, so their easier games against weaker sides meant little.

I think it'll be the same for Quins, we'll make it difficult for Leicester but at home I expect them to edge it.

Yappysnap remember Saracens are the toughest side to score against in the AP. Look at the points against - 28 in 3 matches. 1 try conceded.

Quins have a fierce defense but they'll chuck the ball around a lot more and at the breakdown they'll want a fast paced encounter.

Jimpy wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:Irish by 5

That is all.

You mean they'll have had another 40 points put past them by 5pm?

Shouldn't but couldn't help myself!

yappysnap wrote:Tigers were looking like try scoring machines till they got to Saracens, so their easier games against weaker sides meant little.

I think it'll be the same for Quins, we'll make it difficult for Leicester but at home I expect them to edge it.

I'll take a repaeat of the "dull" match at Stoop earlier this year.

Sales v LW teams:

Sale Sharks: 15.Rob Miller, 14.Tom Brady, 13.Johnny Leota, 12.Sam Tuitupou, 11.Mark Cueto, 10.Danny Cipriani, 9.Dwayne Peel, 1.Eifion Lewis-Roberts, 2.Joe Ward, 3.Vadim Cobilas, 4.Richie Gray, 5.Kearnan Myall, 6.Mark Easter, 7.David Seymour (capt.), 8.Andy Powell

Replacements: 16.Tommy Taylor, 17.Ross Harrison, 18.Tony Buckley, 19.Fraser McKenzie, 20.Richie Vernon, 21.Will Cliff, 22.Nick Macleod, 23.Corne Uys


London Welsh: 15. Tom Arscott, 14. Phil Mackenzie*, 13. Sonny Parker*, 12. Hudson Tonga'uiha*, 11. Nick Scott, 10. Gordon Ross*, 9. Tyson Keats, 1. Frank Montanella*, 2. Neil Briggs, 3. Paulica Ion*, 4 Jonathan Mills ©, 5. Matt Corker, 6. Daniel Browne, 7. Michael Hills, 8. Ed Jackson.

Replacements: 16. Dan George, 17. Tom Bristow, 18. Arthur Joly, 19. Kirill Kulemin*, Ed Williamson, 21. Nick Runciman, 22. Ryan Davis#, 23. Seb Jewell.