T20 World Cup: Live Matches Discussion

Please feel free to discuss every ball of the 2012 T20 World Cup here.

Who do you think will win?

To carry on the discussion I was having with Hibbz:

Sorry should have added a after exposing the arithmetic. Maths people like myself like to show off our amazing skills.

regarding players accelerating throughout their innings I think it depends. It's true of some guys like M Hussey or Jayawardene say that their preferred method is to settle in and then go for it. Equally some like Dilshan or Warner like to get off to a flyer, then settle down, then maybe go big at the end. Guys like Hales, but I guess Bopara and probably Bell would be the same are more likely to just bat at the same rate. Of course they'll look to accelerate, but not being natural ball strikers they'll find it harder.

I don't think 8 an over is a bad rate for someone like Hales, and as I say, the fact he doesn't really get stuck is a plus because it means others can rely on what he's going to do. Providing you've got the odd release shot (Hales's seems to be the old fashioned slog) I think someone like that can be more than useful in a T20 side. As I say, it's a good contrast to the more natural hitters who make up the rest of the top 6.

If KP was playing today England would have won.......

they didn't collapse to spin today....but overcompensated, in trying too hard not to collapse to spin......
and in the process of "we will not lose wicket to a spinner"....effectively batted themselves out of the match by the 10th over.

that Morgan got them close with his 200% SR blinder over 70 odd run amazing inning.........falls more in the category of freak innings that won't happen in every game.

Lanka's 2 spinners will either choke England like WI did or collapse them like India did.....unless about 3 or 4 batters from England play normal good innings and spread the load on their shoulders.

the Eng-NZ game should be a battle of equals with NZ batting having a slight advantage and Eng's bolwing slightly ahead.

I missed the England innings. Too late here but I might stay up for some games this long weekend.

That's the key KPF - you need at least 3 or 4 batters to get on with it.
WI maybe bucked that trend with only 2 making significant scores but even with England's horror start (from what I've read on the other thread) they were only 15 runs short in the end.

Some good matches tomorrow (or later today here).

England have to adjust their mindset about T20 batting.......you don't need all 6 batters to be the hit-big-strokes type..........you need about 2 batsmen especially at the top who can build innings...like Gambhir, Sangkarra and Mahela....even if they are not quite in the class of Mahela, Sangkarra.

Eng must look at getting Cook and Bell into the T20 side...........I undertsand Butler and Bairstow can keep wickets...so they have flexibility there.

actually handing over all 3 format captaincy to Cook won't be a bad idea....Broad is too much of a kid....and already has plenty on his plate with his bowling to nurture

India in perpetual dillemma......to play 4 bowlers or 5
if 5 ....should it be 2 spinners or 3
If 4...should it be 2 spinners or 1
If 5......which of the batsment sits out....
commonsense and form would suggest Sehwag sits out.......but being the senior and referred to as the new "Paaji".......a big chunk of media will stir it up and ascribe to the rift between Dhoni and Sehwag....should he be left out.
Not that the media doesn't see the commonsense.....but they just love to stir it up

Dhoni can go with his instinct, judgment( to drop Sehwag)....but the caveat is that he will have to win it....he loses and they will rip him apart.

Or he can be safe...with sehwag and 4 bowlers.....and all "Be a Happy Family" whether they win or lose

Sehwag on his day is a match winner in any format. 10 overs of Sehwag, India should win the match.
Now that is the obvious. But the other interesting part is that Sehwag hasn't been in good form for some time now. He had a few handy starts in the NZ test series and scored a 96 against Lanka in the recetn ODI series, but that's about it. Rohit Sharma has been even more dreadful form, and unlike Sehwag he never delivered consistently for India. But to keep him out after a big hand in winning the last match would be tough.
Ashwin has to come back in for Chawla, and I think Zaheer has to be back as well, for Dinda.
Agree with all that KPF said about the Dhoni/Sehwag situation. Its a very tough call, I would say sit Sehwag out for this one.

For all his daring as a batsman, Dhoni is a conservative captain. He might bring Sehwag back in, play 4 bowlers, and hope Yuvraj would step up, yet again.

Can anyone tell me whether all the teams in the super 8's play all the other teams?

I tried to see whether there is a log table for the super 8's but can't find one.

Biltong wrote:Can anyone tell me whether all the teams in the super 8's play all the other teams?

I tried to see whether there is a log table for the super 8's but can't find one.

2 groups of 4: England, Sri Lanka, West Indies and New Zealand in one, Pakistan, Australia, South Africa and India in the other.

The 4 top placed sides in one group with the bottom 4 in the other! Only at the ICC...

msp83 wrote:For all his daring as a batsman, Dhoni is a conservative captain. He might bring Sehwag back in, play 4 bowlers, and hope Yuvraj would step up, yet again.

i also think.....that is what he will do..........and rely on Raina, Sehwag, Yuvraj, Rohit...to do 4 to 8 overs between them

Well, a disappointing performance again from England.

With the ball I thought that they again over-used the short ball, particularly to Gayle and Charles who didn't seem to mind it - I now look really stupid for writing off Charles before the start! Once we got into Pollard and co our strengths in bowling against some of these chancers started to show.

With the bat losing two wickets early obviously isn't good - Kieswetter likes that shot and got it wrong: it wasn't on but I can forgive him. I don't know what Wright was up to. I then think that we lost the game in the next period when Hales and Bairstow seemed worried about attempting the type of shots that got them out against India. Badree looked extremely average to me on a good pitch and to take him at only 5 an over was probably criminal, although admittedly part of that was down to the need to rebuild slightly.

Morgan reminded everyone that he's a good hitter of spin - his frailties in nudging and nurdling weren't exposed but might have been had he gone in 4 in the first over, so he was right to go in 5. Having said that given Bairstow's troubles against spin, I might have been tempted to give Buttler a hit.

Overall, this was a game which I thought we'd win. We now have to beat NZ and probably SL too.

Mike Selig wrote:

Biltong wrote:Can anyone tell me whether all the teams in the super 8's play all the other teams?

I tried to see whether there is a log table for the super 8's but can't find one.

2 groups of 4: England, Sri Lanka, West Indies and New Zealand in one, Pakistan, Australia, South Africa and India in the other.

The 4 top placed sides in one group with the bottom 4 in the other! Only at the ICC...

Thanks Mike, makes sense now.

hmmm, I see we are choking again.

so far Pakistan has bowled 4 spinners and shoiab Malik is also an offspinner, not bowled yet with action similar to hafeez, akmal and no less than Hafeez in impact.

It's been the same story this whole season, if Amla fires we do OK, if he doesn't we're in trouble.

don't write off SA yet...it could be a low scoring thriller.
Bookies are offering an attractive 3.25 times return on SA currently

mercurial is the trm that so often dscribes Pakistan......with so many spinners that they didn't need to bowl one of the best seamers in T20 Umar Gul at all

SA set 134......giving something for SA's 4 fast bolwers and 2 spinners..... to fight with..
converting to an ODI equivalent.....120 stands for a 50 overs equivalent of 200....and 200 in T20 stands for 300ish in 50 overs....

rest can be interpolated in between.....

so in 50 over equivalnces we are looking at SA defending 215 to 220ish type total........whihc might give a better perspective on the "defendability" on SA total

Thats a very poor score.

I still do not understand why AB only comes in at the end. He is an innovative batsman who can score quickly, why does he wait so long?

Let Duminy open, he starts slowly and builds momentum.

Biltong wrote:Thats a very poor score.

I still do not understand why AB only comes in at the end. He is an innovative batsman who can score quickly, why does he wait so long?

Let Duminy open, he starts slowly and builds momentum.

those are very fair qustions...that many of us have in mind.
and knowing kirsten...he is too logical and balanced not to be seeing the questions himself.

I think the answers lie in what the objectives have been set for Kitsen by SA cricket board.

I suspect the objectives are supremacy in test and winning the 50 over w'cup.
and the bilateral series and smaller tournaments are being used as trial , review optimizations to test and get the right combinations for the two or 3 top objectives

KP_fan wrote:SA set 134......giving something for SA's 4 fast bolwers and 2 spinners..... to fight with..

SA fighting, Pak 3 down for 31

KP_fan wrote:

Biltong wrote:Thats a very poor score.

I still do not understand why AB only comes in at the end. He is an innovative batsman who can score quickly, why does he wait so long?

Let Duminy open, he starts slowly and builds momentum.

those are very fair qustions...that many of us have in mind.
and knowing kirsten...he is too logical and balanced not to be seeing the questions himself.

I think the answers lie in what the objectives have been set for Kitsen by SA cricket board.

I suspect the objectives are supremacy in test and winning the 50 over w'cup.
and the bilateral series and smaller tournaments are being used as trial , review optimizations to test and get the right combinations for the two or 3 top objectives

Perhaps.

I remember 2 years before the 2011 world cup....Kirsten supported then by Prasad as bolwing coach, Robin singh as the fielding coach and Dhoni as captian cast the net wide.........looked at 25 to 30 probables in variety of match / opponent conditions ....doing alpha and beta versions as in product development lingo...and freezing rhe compositions to chosen 15 about 3 to 4 months before the world cup.

37/4.

Who's the bigger choker

37-4........RRR upto nearly 7.5...and SA favorites now.
Petersen and Botha spinning a web around the Pakistanis

I keep saying never underestimate the power and pressure created by runs on board.

well 5th wkt gone......Pak eed 9RPO over the last 8 overs........SA should win from here

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:37/4.

Who's the bigger choker

I suspect it is still us.

and afridi comes.....and afridi goes the first ball......this guy leaves his brain in the dressing room.....
if there was a ranking for greatest, decline in batting skills in a player.......afridi wins that award uncontested

Cricinfo commentary:

Opportunity for Afridi to remind his fans of his batting in the 2009 edition
12.1 Duminy to Shahid Afridi, OUT, forget I even said that
Shahid Afridi c JA Morkel b Duminy 0 (1b 0x4 0x6) SR: 0.00

Commentator's Curse at its finest

KP_fan wrote:and afridi comes.....and afridi goes the first ball......this guy leaves his brain in the dressing room.....
if there was a ranking for greatest, decline in batting skills in a player.......afridi wins that award uncontested

Decline's perhaps the wrong word KPF. He's always been inconsistent (in terms of innings it's more bust boom bust bust bust than boom-boom), it's just that we remember more of the good than the bad from the past.

I see him as a very useful limited overs bowler, with any runs as a bonus.

I think Robin Petersen would make a better test match spinner than Imran Tahir

KP_fan wrote:I think Robin Petersen would make a better test match spinner than Imran Tahir

I agree.

Do you think we might still pull this one through?

Biltong wrote:Do you think we might still pull this one through?

There's still time for Steyn to concede a 36 run over Biltong

76-7!!

7th gone...it might end up being a BIG win for SA.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Biltong wrote:Do you think we might still pull this one through?

There's still time for Steyn to concede a 36 run over Biltong

Or take a wicket.

gul hitting like he has a baseball club in his hand

Wow Umar Gul gets Pakistan back in it! And now makes them favourites with 22 needed of 3 overs!

Gul stung by not being given the bolwing till the 17th over......and venting his anger on SA bowlers

15 off the last 2 ...

ok Gul goes........9 needed in the last over......2 wkst in hand and Ukmal would have to hit a couple of boundaries if Pak has to win

Pakistan win! What a game, well played Umar!

sehwag not playing....3 spinners , Zaheer and Irfan the Indian bowling.
India batting first

Gambhir runout early, he got out for 17 after looking good. Pathan opening with him. Kohli in at 3.

Pat Cummins gets Kohli to sky one up for Dan Christian. Crucial wicket.

Cummins into the attack and he gets the big wicket of Virat Kohli straight away. India 56-2 in the 8th over.
Brad Hogg bowled a very good first over before that.

pathan is alwys troubled where there is late movement or a spinner who can turn both ways......
because pathan just swings straight throuhg the line........when the ball deviates it's original line he is found lacking

Yuvraj in at 4. Important he gets into his groove today. Nasty short ball first up.