RaboP12 (Round 6): Leinster (30) vs Munster (21) k/o - 18:30 Sat, 6 October 2012 (Lansdowne Road)

by thebandwagonsociety Mon 01 Oct 2012, 4:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

Leinster & Munster coming off away losses (Connacht & Ospreys respectively).
How much will Leinster rebound?
Is this the usual slow start, or a malaise within the squad?

Squad updates/Teams to follow

Leinster Squad Update: 1 Oct 14:30
Rob Kearney (back) and Gordon D’Arcy (rib) are major doubts for the province and they will continue to be assessed ahead of Friday’s lunchtime team announcement. South African second row Quinn Roux suffered a shoulder injury and he is expected to miss this weekend’s derby match.
Meanwhile, Shane Jennings is expected to shake off the ill effects of an ankle injury which he sustained on the hour mark in Connacht, though it is likely to curtail his on-field involvement in training this week. It is hoped that club captain Leo Cullen (arm) will also return to the panel either this week or next, while Isaac Boss (arm) is getting closer to a return to action.

The province are expected to be boosted by the return of the likes of Jamie Heaslip, Kevin McLaughlin, Brian O’Driscoll, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton and Richardt Strauss to the panel this week.

There are two significant imminent landmarks for the province with Cian Healy, who turns 25 on Sunday, in line to make his 100th provincial appearance, while Naas number eight Heaslip’s next appearance will be his 150th.

Munster Squad Update: 1 October
Good news from the Munster camp is that the injuries picked up in the game on Saturday at the Liberty Stadium are not causing great concern.

Conor Murray required stitches to a cut above his eye but shortly after he returned it was thought to be in his best interests to replace him with Peter Stringer.
Stringer finished the game but suffered a calf injury and his progress will be monitored though the expectation is that both will be fit for consideration. The same applies to Marcus Horan who sustained a facial cut playing for Shannon.

Paul O'Connell (back), Johne Murphy (knee) and Luke O'Dea (ankle) are all expected to take a full part in training this week while Ian Nagle (shoulder) did likewise last week but will be given a week or so before being made available for selection and Cathal Sheridan (hand) and Ivan Dineen (groin) are also looking at a return in the same timeframe.

Mickado wrote:LEINSTER:

15: Ian Madigan
14: Andrew Conway
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Fergus McFadden
11: Isa Nacewa
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Damian Browne
5: Devin Toner
6: Kevin McLaughlin
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Jack McGrath
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Tom Denton
20: Jordi Murphy
21: John Cooney
22: Noel Reid
23: Fionn Carr

red_stag wrote:01: Dave Kilcoyne
02: Mike Sherry
03: BJ Botha
04: Donncha O'Callaghan
05: Donnacha Ryan
06: Dave O'Callaghan
07: Sean Dougall
08: Peter O'Mahony
09: Conor Murray
10: Ronan O'Gara
11: Simon Zebo
12: Casey Laulala
13: Keith Earls
14: Doug Howlett
15: Denis Hurley

16: Damien Varley
17: Wian du Preez
18: Stephen Archer
19: Billy Holland
20: Paddy Butler
21: Duncan Williams
22: Ian Keatley
23: James Downey

Post match report (Indo)
Having saddled themselves with the unwanted tag of league leaders in tries conceded, Leinster for a while looked like they might make serious headway in the other direction at Lansdowne Road last night. In the end they managed one more than they conceded, 3-2, and were happy enough to win, never mind miss out on the bonus.

The bad news is that their list of injured has grown even longer. Four players had to leave early from what was an entertaining contest for the huge crowd of 46,280 who fetched up on a perfect night for rugby. Kevin McLaughlin, Isa Nacewa, Brian O'Driscoll and Andrew Conway all took knocks. Conway's exit was via a stretcher, with a stinger, while McLaughlin will need a scan on a hyper-extended elbow, Nacewa is in trouble with a haematoma, and O'Driscoll sprained his ankle.

It remains to be seen who is fit for the opening defence of their Heineken Cup title, against Exeter in the RDS on Saturday, but as far as last night was concerned they were stuck with a back three of replacement scrumhalf John Cooney, outhalf Ian Madigan (in fairness he was selected at fullback) and Fionn Carr, who surely would have started if he hadn't missed a bad tackle in the five-try defeat in Galway last weekend.

Smelling the weakness in their opponents, Munster -- who came through the game in much better shape physically -- chased the home team down like men possessed. On 53 minutes they looked like they would be beaten out the gate when an outstanding try from O'Driscoll, converted from the touchline by the excellent Jonny Sexton, put Leinster 30-14 ahead.

Going down the final straight, however, it was a mad scramble. Conor Murray spread a bit of panic in the home crowd when, from a couple of metres out, he took advantage of empty corridor to dot the ball down. Replacement Ian Keatley nailed the conversion with a great kick, and Munster were on the charge. A couple of minutes later they looked on the verge of making it a one-point game.

Keith Earls was held up inches short, and when the ball squirted up referee Leighton Hodges said it was forward and Leinster escaped. Earls made another great burst heading into overtime, but by then the chances of two scores were non-existent.

When the game wasn't stopped for injuries it moved along at a cracking pace, helped by the service of man of the match Eoin Reddan -- his contribution to O'Driscoll's try was first class -- and, in the subtext of showing form for Ireland, Richardt Strauss made a compelling case. He looked like the player who took Leinster by storm when he arrived here three years ago. He did well to finger-tip-score the opening try, after just four minutes, but way better again in keeping the ball alive for the second, for Madigan.

"Yeah I thought he was really good," Joe Schmidt said. "There was one pinball effort where he took a ball behind him and was hit by two guys -- [Casey] Laulala was one of them, who tends not to leave a lot behind when he hits -- and ricocheted away in the lead-up to scoring [Madigan's try]. I thought he was very good."

It remains to be seen if Declan Kidney thinks the same. The Ireland coach will have been pleased with the form of Earls, and Simon Zebo, but it was hard for Munster to get a secure platform given the damage Mike Ross was doing to their scrum. Dave Kilcoyne, his opposite number, is a willing and aggressive ball carrier, but as you would expect he spent more time learning than lecturing in the tight. The ref did him for two penalties in a row -- one hit and one miss for Sexton -- and you felt for him.

Early on Munster looked like they had plenty to offer, with Peter O'Mahony responding within a couple of minutes of Strauss's try. By half-time Leinster had slipped out to 20-14. Ronan O'Gara kept Munster in touch with three penalties but then hit the post with a handy one early in the new half.

Straight from there, Leinster got motoring and hit their opponents with 10 points in four minutes -- first Sexton goaled from the touchline, and then O'Driscoll finished brilliantly after Fergus McFadden laid the groundwork through the middle, riding O'Gara's tackle, before great hands from Reddan kept it all going.

Rob Penney will be delighted with the way his team stuck to the task, but they badly need to get all their big players fit if their game is going to work. Schmidt, while wondering why so much trauma has landed at his door, will be glad that his team can generate this sort of momentum with so many players missing.

Scorers -- Leinster: R Strauss, I Madigan, B O'Driscoll try each; J Sexton 3 pens, 3 cons; Munster: P O'Mahony, C Murray try each; R O'Gara 3 pens; I Keatley con.

Leinster: I Madigan; A Conway (J Cooney 65), B O'Driscoll (N Reid 64), F McFadden, I Nacewa (F Carr 55); J Sexton, E Reddan; H van der Merwe, R Strauss (S Cronin 57), M Ross (J Hagan 65), D Browne (T Denton 73), D Toner, K McLaughlin (J Murphy 12), J Heaslip (capt), S Jennings.

Munster: D Hurley; D Howlett (capt), K Earls, C Laulala, S Zebo (J Downey 65); R O'Gara (I Keatley 60),C Murray; D Kilcoyne (W du Preez 57), M Sherry (D Varley 51 yc 54-64), BJ Botha, Donncha O'Callaghan (B Holland 49), D Ryan, Dave O'Callaghan (P Butler 70), P O'Mahony, S Dougall.

Referee: L Hodges (Wales)

by **rodders** Wed 03 Oct 2012, 1:02 pm

I think the IRFU were far too quick to extend O'Connells contract until 2014. The injuries are becoming more frequent and the recovery times longer. O'connell needs a big few months to show that he still has a future at the top level.

There's been a pattern this season already that the standout players are the younger guys and the old guard are looking .... old.

DOC and BOD being the execeptions perhaps.

by SecretFly Wed 03 Oct 2012, 1:26 pm

I laugh sometimes at how clinical we are in believing the past is the past and, more humourously, the future is the guaranteed future.

Let's wait and see on Paul. Yes, I think he's not suited to what is happening in NH rugby (becoming or trying to become more SH loose and perpetually in motion) but let him tell his own story when he resumes. Stranger things have happened. People were already suggesting O'Driscoll should to be put out to pasture pre 2009. And we know what he said in 2009.

by SecretFly Wed 03 Oct 2012, 1:28 pm

red_stag wrote:Secret,

I think he will actually be important in deciding the times to let the more skillful players play "Penney Rugby" and the times to pull in BJ Botha, Donnacha Ryan, Peter O'Mahony, CJ Stander, Donnacha O'Callaghan etc and say "Right lads, ball is going up the jumper for next few minutes".

Ideally we can have a varied game plan. I think having seen more of Munster I see a role for him in there.

Agreed. As Howlett said recently, it's not a dramatic change for Munster under Penney but just the addition of another layer. There's still a place for old-school Munster

by **rodders** Wed 03 Oct 2012, 1:31 pm

SecretFly wrote:I laugh sometimes at how clinical we are in believing the past is the past and, more humourously, the future is the guaranteed future.

Laugh all you want fly old bean. I will go on record as saying that O'Connell is not the future. If you want me to elaborate why then I will Wink

by red_stag Wed 03 Oct 2012, 1:41 pm

Rodders he isn't the long term future but he is the present and he is the short term future.

We cannot call on Johann Muller to help out Dan Tuohy.

by SecretFly Wed 03 Oct 2012, 1:52 pm

Well, you know you have a winning bet when you tell me he isn't the future. I didn't place any bets saying he was, Rodders. I said he might be an okay present. But do tell me about the future.... Wink

That's a tougher one to put the bucks on.

by **rodders** Wed 03 Oct 2012, 3:21 pm

red_stag wrote:Rodders he isn't the long term future but he is the present and he is the short term future.

We cannot call on Johann Muller to help out Dan Tuohy.

Since when did Touhy require Mullers help? He did alright at the weekend anyways.

O'Connell can't be described as the present if he hasn't played since last season can he?

The present is Touhy, Ryan, Stevenson, O'Callaghan * 2, McCarthy, Henderson etc. because they're the ones out there on the pitch performing.

Until O'Connell goes out and puts a shift in hes yesterday's man as far as I'm concerned.

by Sin é Wed 03 Oct 2012, 3:26 pm

Rods, Rory Best hasn't put a shift in this season yet - is he yesterday's man?

by **rodders** Wed 03 Oct 2012, 3:36 pm

No like Ryan he gets the benefit of the doubt because of his performances on tour and the tail end of last season.

Nice try but there's very fair and consistant criteria for the Rodders 606v2 thumbs up thumbsup

or thumbs down thumbsdown

.

by thebandwagonsociety Wed 03 Oct 2012, 3:41 pm

rodders wrote:
red_stag wrote:Rodders he isn't the long term future but he is the present and he is the short term future.

We cannot call on Johann Muller to help out Dan Tuohy.

Since when did Touhy require Mullers help? He did alright at the weekend anyways.

O'Connell can't be described as the present if he hasn't played since last season can he?

The present is Touhy, Ryan, Stevenson, O'Callaghan * 2, McCarthy, Henderson etc. because they're the ones out there on the pitch performing.

Until O'Connell goes out and puts a shift in hes yesterday's man as far as I'm concerned.

I'd argue that apart from BOD, not many Leinster players have actually put in a shift this season. Do we write them off as well.
The kids always look good in the first couple of games of the season, then the expectations and pressure builds on them. The veterans usually take longer to get up to speed. It might be best to hold off until at least christmas before we cast dead wood like POC onto the pile.

by Sin é Wed 03 Oct 2012, 3:45 pm

I see Rodders! Laugh

by GunsGerms Wed 03 Oct 2012, 3:58 pm

Leinster by 5.

by **profitius** Wed 03 Oct 2012, 4:08 pm

SecretFly wrote:Going on our recent words about Paul..., I'm wondering again just what we're going to get when he returns to the new Penney Munster. Intriguing. I wonder will he be asked to evade contact more often rather than meeting it head on.

Penneys gameplan with suit POC perfectly. One of POC's greatest strengths is his engine. He'll run all day.

The problem with POC under McGahan was he was getting ball in the midfield, standing still, after a slow ruck and asked to carry the ball against 3 defenders. I thought he done well under the circumstances. That was due to poor tactics rather than POC being a poor ball carrier.

by **rodders** Wed 03 Oct 2012, 4:08 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
I'd argue that apart from BOD, not many Leinster players have actually put in a shift this season. Do we write them off as well.

You don't have to argue that point...I agree Smile

I'm not writing anyone off, what I'd saying is O'Connell needs to show what he's got in the tank over the next few months. He's 33 and is returning from yet another long injury lay off so I don't think thats an unreasonable statement.

The next 3-6 months will show us if O'Connell is not the player he was,a Lions test player in waiting or something in between but at the minute he hasn't played and has a fair bit to prove given the performances of some of his younger contempories and the length of time hes been out.

I'm a reasonable chap but this is professional rugby here not help the aged. O'Connell should have to prove himself the same as everyone else.

by valjester Wed 03 Oct 2012, 4:31 pm

rodders wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
I'd argue that apart from BOD, not many Leinster players have actually put in a shift this season. Do we write them off as well.

You don't have to argue that point...I agree

I'm not writing anyone off, what I'd saying is O'Connell needs to show what he's got in the tank over the next few months. He's 33 and is returning from yet another long injury lay off so I don't think thats an unreasonable statement.

The next 3-6 months will show us if O'Connell is not the player he was,a Lions test player in waiting or something in between but at the minute he hasn't played and has a fair bit to prove given the performances of some of his younger contempories and the length of time hes been out.

I'm a reasonable chap but this is professional rugby here not help the aged. O'Connell should have to prove himself the same as everyone else.

If he gets anywhere close to how good he was in the games in played last season, then he will be on the plane and it would be very hard to leave him off the team. He will need a few games to get up to speed but Ireland really need him back playing. Everytime he has returned from injury in the last few seasons, he has been immense once he gets up and running.

by SecretFly Wed 03 Oct 2012, 4:41 pm

Sin é wrote:Rods, Rory Best hasn't put a shift in this season yet - is he yesterday's man?

Boy.... that hit a target Sin é

by SecretFly Wed 03 Oct 2012, 4:43 pm

profitius wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Going on our recent words about Paul..., I'm wondering again just what we're going to get when he returns to the new Penney Munster. Intriguing. I wonder will he be asked to evade contact more often rather than meeting it head on.

Penneys gameplan with suit POC perfectly. One of POC's greatest strengths is his engine. He'll run all day.

The problem with POC under McGahan was he was getting ball in the midfield, standing still, after a slow ruck and asked to carry the ball against 3 defenders. I thought he done well under the circumstances. That was due to poor tactics rather than POC being a poor ball carrier.

That's what I'm saying, profitius. I hope you're right and that better tactics for him might give him a new lease of life....well, until Rodder's gets around to doing the mercy killing on him, that is.

by **rodders** Wed 03 Oct 2012, 4:48 pm

by SecretFly Wed 03 Oct 2012, 4:52 pm

Some players will; Ooh ooh - ooh ooh,
some players won't; ooh ooh - ooh ooh
some players need a lot of time off and...
some players don't.

This show ain't help the aged and...
I don't care how,
Paulie needs to lose the zimmer frame now!

by **rodders** Wed 03 Oct 2012, 5:13 pm

And don't think I've forgotten about messrs D'arcy and Cullen...... Wink

DOC is off the hook though, he's been playing with the aplomb of a 31 year old.... Smile

by SecretFly Wed 03 Oct 2012, 5:23 pm

I hear ya Rodders. No place for grecian 2000 nose hairs in the Irish set up. We have to be cruel to be clinical. If you can remember reading about the water proof Millennium Clock that drowned, you're out.

by debaters1 Wed 03 Oct 2012, 5:47 pm

Yes, i have to admit that DOC really has surprised me. The fierce criticism he came in for last season was warrented in the sense that he had lost his place to better players in Munster but when called upon, his work rate and desire were beyond reproach. But this season, like ROG since Sexton passed him out, he has, some how, become a better rugby player. Now you can be therefore critical of him (and ROG) as a player and Kidney & McGahan as coaches for not drawing this out before, but it is good to see if required for whatever reason, he can be thrown in the deepend and take to it like a fish. Not our present or future but one fooken phenomenal reserve to have behind the 2 starters & bench warmer.

Depth!

by Sin é Wed 03 Oct 2012, 5:50 pm

Who do you think is the benchwarmer debaters?

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 03 Oct 2012, 6:12 pm

I think poc needs to reinvent himself slightly the way munster have. He is very similar to Cullen in that when he gets the ball u are aware that there is very little danger to the defence. They have to become better 'footballers' IMO. Poc also has to get fit again. There are some locks playing great stuff at the moment: tuohy, doc, toner, Henderson, McCarthy are all playing very well.

Just as an aside from a while ago, I think Cronin had a very good first few games but his last one was poor and the one before was average.

by maestegmafia Wed 03 Oct 2012, 6:32 pm

What a game before the HEC starts... Could be the making or undoing of either side...

I have a sneaky feeling Leinster might right a few wrongs in preparation for this match.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 03 Oct 2012, 6:37 pm

red_stag wrote:Rodders he isn't the long term future but he is the present and he is the short term future.

We cannot call on Johann Muller to help out Dan Tuohy.

Pretty ridiculous comment there Stag.

by valjester Wed 03 Oct 2012, 6:45 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think poc needs to reinvent himself slightly the way munster have. He is very similar to Cullen in that when he gets the ball u are aware that there is very little danger to the defence. They have to become better 'footballers' IMO. Poc also has to get fit again. There are some locks playing great stuff at the moment: tuohy, doc, toner, Henderson, McCarthy are all playing very well.

Just as an aside from a while ago, I think Cronin had a very good first few games but his last one was poor and the one before was average.

Henderson has played one game at 6, give the lad some time.

Poc is capable of reinventing is game, or rather reverting to his original game plan. He is in a different league to any other lock we have, Henderson has the potential to get close to being Poc good. Obviously he has to get fit again, but once he is fit, he will be straight back in. Also on his carrying, he might not be great at it, but he is much better than Cullen.

by valjester Wed 03 Oct 2012, 6:46 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
red_stag wrote:Rodders he isn't the long term future but he is the present and he is the short term future.

We cannot call on Johann Muller to help out Dan Tuohy.

Pretty ridiculous comment there Stag.

Yeah, I really don't understand some people's attitude towards Tuohy, he has been playing great stuff for ages and it is stupid to stay Muller is carrying him.

by **rodders** Wed 03 Oct 2012, 6:51 pm

Yeah stop saying stupid stuff stag! boxing

OK POC only messing big man, come back all is forgiven thumbsup

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 03 Oct 2012, 6:52 pm

I agree he is better than Cullen but neither Cullen or poc are effective carriers IMO and neither have the ball skills that toner, tuohy, Ryan have to shift it well and using vision, Ryan is immense at this

by Sin é Wed 03 Oct 2012, 6:53 pm

I think a few people expected a bit more from Tuohy in NZ. He is a good club lock, but thats about it (you all have heard my opinion on him being too small to be a top class international lock, so I won't go into it again).

Henderson needs to grow a bit as well, although he is lucky he can play 6 which is more than likely where his future is.

SA have a very good lineout - so Ireland need POC and one of DOC or Ryan to play alongside him.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 03 Oct 2012, 6:53 pm

valjester wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
red_stag wrote:Rodders he isn't the long term future but he is the present and he is the short term future.

We cannot call on Johann Muller to help out Dan Tuohy.

Pretty ridiculous comment there Stag.

Yeah, I really don't understand some people's attitude towards Tuohy, he has been playing great stuff for ages and it is stupid to stay Muller is carrying him.

+1

by Sin é Wed 03 Oct 2012, 6:55 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I agree he is better than Cullen but neither Cullen or poc are effective carriers IMO and neither have the ball skills that toner, tuohy, Ryan have to shift it well and using vision, Ryan is immense at this

POC never gets turned over though and that is why he is used to carry. It takes 3 to take him down as well.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 03 Oct 2012, 6:57 pm

Sin é wrote:I think a few people expected a bit more from Tuohy in NZ. He is a good club lock, but thats about it (you all have heard my opinion on him being too small to be a top class international lock, so I won't go into it again).

Henderson needs to grow a bit as well, although he is lucky he can play 6 which is more than likely where his future is.

SA have a very good lineout - so Ireland need POC and one of DOC or Ryan to play alongside him.

Hendy is already 6 foot 6 and 18 stone, bigger than DOC or POC, so I don't think he needs to grow anymore.

by **rodders** Wed 03 Oct 2012, 7:01 pm

Yeah yeah sin we know, we know...Munster men never get turned over.... Whistle

by Sin é Wed 03 Oct 2012, 7:05 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Sin é wrote:I think a few people expected a bit more from Tuohy in NZ. He is a good club lock, but thats about it (you all have heard my opinion on him being too small to be a top class international lock, so I won't go into it again).

Henderson needs to grow a bit as well, although he is lucky he can play 6 which is more than likely where his future is.

SA have a very good lineout - so Ireland need POC and one of DOC or Ryan to play alongside him.

Hendy is already 6 foot 6 and 18 stone, bigger than DOC or POC, so I don't think he needs to grow anymore.

He didn't look that tall in the U20s - good to hear that he has got to 6'6" (which is the absolute minimum for an international nowadays). Even NZ have a couple of 6'8" locks in the pipeline.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 03 Oct 2012, 7:08 pm

He has been 6 foot 6 since he has been at school, he is more than tall enough.

by Sin é Wed 03 Oct 2012, 7:10 pm

rodders wrote:Yeah yeah sin we know, we know...Munster men never get turned over....

POC rarely does - I wasn't claiming all munster men didn't get turned over (what happened in the last encounter - was that the Ulster pack being nice to our kids letting them steal the ball so much a few weeks ago in Ravenhill Smile

)

by Sin é Wed 03 Oct 2012, 7:12 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:He has been 6 foot 6 since he has been at school, he is more than tall enough.

He has filled out a bit then maybe? He just didn't look that big in the U20s (though maybe I was comparing him to the Saffers & English kids?)

The new Kiwi locks are 6'8".

by thebandwagonsociety Wed 03 Oct 2012, 7:14 pm

Sin é wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Sin é wrote:I think a few people expected a bit more from Tuohy in NZ. He is a good club lock, but thats about it (you all have heard my opinion on him being too small to be a top class international lock, so I won't go into it again).

Henderson needs to grow a bit as well, although he is lucky he can play 6 which is more than likely where his future is.

SA have a very good lineout - so Ireland need POC and one of DOC or Ryan to play alongside him.

Hendy is already 6 foot 6 and 18 stone, bigger than DOC or POC, so I don't think he needs to grow anymore.

He didn't look that tall in the U20s - good to hear that he has got to 6'6" (which is the absolute minimum for an international nowadays). Even NZ have a couple of 6'8" locks in the pipeline.

Is two inches really all that important? Tumbleweed

by Sin é Wed 03 Oct 2012, 7:22 pm

No - it makes life a bit easier for your hooker if you have the same reach as the other locks you are competing against though, not to mention having a good defensive lineout.

by thebandwagonsociety Wed 03 Oct 2012, 7:27 pm

Oh, do we get on to a good point here on the lineouts. Second row players are lifted by other players. So a 2inch height differential is not all that important if your prop is 6'4" (like the Bull was) and the other side has a prop of 5'10" lifting the taller lad.

by asoreleftshoulder Wed 03 Oct 2012, 7:32 pm

It also depends on how explosive your lock is at jumping and how strong of a lifter your prop is.Then you have to factor in timing and you understand how ridiculous it is to say that a certain height is a minimum.

Obviously being taller helps but there is a reason that guys under 6 foot have played in the N.B.A. As my wife is always telling me size isn't everything.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 03 Oct 2012, 7:35 pm

Not to mention the fact we have already established many times that a few of the best line-out jumpers in the world play in the back row. Not sure why Sin doesn't think this counts.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 03 Oct 2012, 7:35 pm

These two new Kiwi locks may be 6'8" but the Kiwi lock who will go down as one of the greats of the game in New Zealand and the World is only 6'5"

Brad Thorn.

POC needs to get his skates on and get some game time and form if he wants a starting spot.

by **rodders** Wed 03 Oct 2012, 7:44 pm

Can't believe it lads... Sin has netted the lot of you!... Smile

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 03 Oct 2012, 7:53 pm

Getting away from that as QUICKLY as possible, face off time

Front row: Leinster
Second row: Munster
Backrow: Even
Halfbacks: Leinster
Centres: Munster
Back 3: Munster

Munster win there.

Scrum: Leinster
Breakdown: Leinster
Defence: Munster
Attack: Even
Kicking game: Even
Lineout: Even

No idea which way to call this one

by valjester Wed 03 Oct 2012, 8:07 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:These two new Kiwi locks may be 6'8" but the Kiwi lock who will go down as one of the greats of the game in New Zealand and the World is only 6'5"

Brad Thorn.

POC needs to get his skates on and get some game time and form if he wants a starting spot.

Poc will be straight back in the side when he is fit, regardless of gametime, he brings so much more than his own game that he is vital for us.

Locks need to be monsters is absolute rubbish if you look at the height of the best lineout operators in the world. So much work goes into running a lineout these days that lack of height can be gotten around, and 6'5 ain't exactly short.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 03 Oct 2012, 9:05 pm

I think it depends on how much game time he has. If he can get 32 or 3 games in before the Internationals (which he should be able to do injury withstanding) then he should be in but we can't deny that quality has increased at lock in the last 12 months:

Tuohy has come on hugely and was already doing well.

Toner had his best season to date last season and looks to be continuing his improvement just at a slower rate.

Henderson looks very, very good and especially so given how young he is, he has bags of potential.

DOC has re-invented himself well.

Ryan had a really good tour to New Zealand and is one of the few who can say that.

Right now fullback, centre and tighthead are our problem positions IMO.

by **rodders** Wed 03 Oct 2012, 11:28 pm

I think Leinster are superior in the key areas i.e. the breakdown and half backs, the set piece will be fairly even and Munster definitely look more dangerous in the outside backs.

All things considered I think Leinster have the edge but it wouldn't be surprised if Munster get the win either.

I'll say Leinster by 12- 15 points because I think Munster will try and spin the ball wide and Leinster will get a lot of turn over ball.

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