RaboP12 (Round 6): Leinster (30) vs Munster (21) k/o - 18:30 Sat, 6 October 2012 (Lansdowne Road)

Leinster Squad Update: 1 Oct 14:30
Rob Kearney (back) and Gordon D’Arcy (rib) are major doubts for the province and they will continue to be assessed ahead of Friday’s lunchtime team announcement. South African second row Quinn Roux suffered a shoulder injury and he is expected to miss this weekend’s derby match.
Meanwhile, Shane Jennings is expected to shake off the ill effects of an ankle injury which he sustained on the hour mark in Connacht, though it is likely to curtail his on-field involvement in training this week. It is hoped that club captain Leo Cullen (arm) will also return to the panel either this week or next, while Isaac Boss (arm) is getting closer to a return to action.

The province are expected to be boosted by the return of the likes of Jamie Heaslip, Kevin McLaughlin, Brian O’Driscoll, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton and Richardt Strauss to the panel this week.

There are two significant imminent landmarks for the province with Cian Healy, who turns 25 on Sunday, in line to make his 100th provincial appearance, while Naas number eight Heaslip’s next appearance will be his 150th.

Munster Squad Update: 1 October
Good news from the Munster camp is that the injuries picked up in the game on Saturday at the Liberty Stadium are not causing great concern.


Conor Murray required stitches to a cut above his eye but shortly after he returned it was thought to be in his best interests to replace him with Peter Stringer.
Stringer finished the game but suffered a calf injury and his progress will be monitored though the expectation is that both will be fit for consideration. The same applies to Marcus Horan who sustained a facial cut playing for Shannon.

Paul O'Connell (back), Johne Murphy (knee) and Luke O'Dea (ankle) are all expected to take a full part in training this week while Ian Nagle (shoulder) did likewise last week but will be given a week or so before being made available for selection and Cathal Sheridan (hand) and Ivan Dineen (groin) are also looking at a return in the same timeframe.

Mickado wrote:LEINSTER:

15: Ian Madigan
14: Andrew Conway
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Fergus McFadden
11: Isa Nacewa
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Damian Browne
5: Devin Toner
6: Kevin McLaughlin
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Jack McGrath
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Tom Denton
20: Jordi Murphy
21: John Cooney
22: Noel Reid
23: Fionn Carr

red_stag wrote:01: Dave Kilcoyne
02: Mike Sherry
03: BJ Botha
04: Donncha O'Callaghan
05: Donnacha Ryan
06: Dave O'Callaghan
07: Sean Dougall
08: Peter O'Mahony
09: Conor Murray
10: Ronan O'Gara
11: Simon Zebo
12: Casey Laulala
13: Keith Earls
14: Doug Howlett
15: Denis Hurley

16: Damien Varley
17: Wian du Preez
18: Stephen Archer
19: Billy Holland
20: Paddy Butler
21: Duncan Williams
22: Ian Keatley
23: James Downey

Post match report (Indo)
Having saddled themselves with the unwanted tag of league leaders in tries conceded, Leinster for a while looked like they might make serious headway in the other direction at Lansdowne Road last night. In the end they managed one more than they conceded, 3-2, and were happy enough to win, never mind miss out on the bonus.

The bad news is that their list of injured has grown even longer. Four players had to leave early from what was an entertaining contest for the huge crowd of 46,280 who fetched up on a perfect night for rugby. Kevin McLaughlin, Isa Nacewa, Brian O'Driscoll and Andrew Conway all took knocks. Conway's exit was via a stretcher, with a stinger, while McLaughlin will need a scan on a hyper-extended elbow, Nacewa is in trouble with a haematoma, and O'Driscoll sprained his ankle.

It remains to be seen who is fit for the opening defence of their Heineken Cup title, against Exeter in the RDS on Saturday, but as far as last night was concerned they were stuck with a back three of replacement scrumhalf John Cooney, outhalf Ian Madigan (in fairness he was selected at fullback) and Fionn Carr, who surely would have started if he hadn't missed a bad tackle in the five-try defeat in Galway last weekend.

Smelling the weakness in their opponents, Munster -- who came through the game in much better shape physically -- chased the home team down like men possessed. On 53 minutes they looked like they would be beaten out the gate when an outstanding try from O'Driscoll, converted from the touchline by the excellent Jonny Sexton, put Leinster 30-14 ahead.

Going down the final straight, however, it was a mad scramble. Conor Murray spread a bit of panic in the home crowd when, from a couple of metres out, he took advantage of empty corridor to dot the ball down. Replacement Ian Keatley nailed the conversion with a great kick, and Munster were on the charge. A couple of minutes later they looked on the verge of making it a one-point game.

Keith Earls was held up inches short, and when the ball squirted up referee Leighton Hodges said it was forward and Leinster escaped. Earls made another great burst heading into overtime, but by then the chances of two scores were non-existent.

When the game wasn't stopped for injuries it moved along at a cracking pace, helped by the service of man of the match Eoin Reddan -- his contribution to O'Driscoll's try was first class -- and, in the subtext of showing form for Ireland, Richardt Strauss made a compelling case. He looked like the player who took Leinster by storm when he arrived here three years ago. He did well to finger-tip-score the opening try, after just four minutes, but way better again in keeping the ball alive for the second, for Madigan.

"Yeah I thought he was really good," Joe Schmidt said. "There was one pinball effort where he took a ball behind him and was hit by two guys -- [Casey] Laulala was one of them, who tends not to leave a lot behind when he hits -- and ricocheted away in the lead-up to scoring [Madigan's try]. I thought he was very good."

It remains to be seen if Declan Kidney thinks the same. The Ireland coach will have been pleased with the form of Earls, and Simon Zebo, but it was hard for Munster to get a secure platform given the damage Mike Ross was doing to their scrum. Dave Kilcoyne, his opposite number, is a willing and aggressive ball carrier, but as you would expect he spent more time learning than lecturing in the tight. The ref did him for two penalties in a row -- one hit and one miss for Sexton -- and you felt for him.

Early on Munster looked like they had plenty to offer, with Peter O'Mahony responding within a couple of minutes of Strauss's try. By half-time Leinster had slipped out to 20-14. Ronan O'Gara kept Munster in touch with three penalties but then hit the post with a handy one early in the new half.

Straight from there, Leinster got motoring and hit their opponents with 10 points in four minutes -- first Sexton goaled from the touchline, and then O'Driscoll finished brilliantly after Fergus McFadden laid the groundwork through the middle, riding O'Gara's tackle, before great hands from Reddan kept it all going.

Rob Penney will be delighted with the way his team stuck to the task, but they badly need to get all their big players fit if their game is going to work. Schmidt, while wondering why so much trauma has landed at his door, will be glad that his team can generate this sort of momentum with so many players missing.

Scorers -- Leinster: R Strauss, I Madigan, B O'Driscoll try each; J Sexton 3 pens, 3 cons; Munster: P O'Mahony, C Murray try each; R O'Gara 3 pens; I Keatley con.

Leinster: I Madigan; A Conway (J Cooney 65), B O'Driscoll (N Reid 64), F McFadden, I Nacewa (F Carr 55); J Sexton, E Reddan; H van der Merwe, R Strauss (S Cronin 57), M Ross (J Hagan 65), D Browne (T Denton 73), D Toner, K McLaughlin (J Murphy 12), J Heaslip (capt), S Jennings.

Munster: D Hurley; D Howlett (capt), K Earls, C Laulala, S Zebo (J Downey 65); R O'Gara (I Keatley 60),C Murray; D Kilcoyne (W du Preez 57), M Sherry (D Varley 51 yc 54-64), BJ Botha, Donncha O'Callaghan (B Holland 49), D Ryan, Dave O'Callaghan (P Butler 70), P O'Mahony, S Dougall.

Referee: L Hodges (Wales)

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Two breaks here (one which is absolutely savage) he holds the ball in 1 hand (you use two to offload/pass) on both breaks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Iz6BJUdRE

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

I've seen Zebo create more tries this season alone than Earls in his entire career so far.

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Two breaks here (one which is absolutely savage) he holds the ball in 1 hand (you use two to offload/pass) on both breaks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Iz6BJUdRE

He is very clearly looking for support in that clip ..... he looks left and he looks right and look where it is ... miles behind him and surrounded by men in white!

He does go to ground and the ball is recycled.





Really good clip to illustrate the pace problems - Luke Fitz would have been on Earls shoulder, though in fairness to Tommy Bowe he is shouting that to indicate that support is on the way. But you can see Ashton has passed Sexton from the two clips.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:He should easily be able to link up with Bowe on his right and in the break at the start of the youtube clip he should be able to there too.

Smart players would be able to alter their run to link, Earls had space between Foden and Ashton and could have slowed further and given Bowe (who has come from the right wing so quite a way to come-had pace to get there, Sexton has made it from Earls' right to left to give another option further proving his pace).

If that was BOD he would have slowed or angled differently to get his hands through Ashton's tackle before reaching Foden.

PS: I didn't write what you have quoted me saying above.

Those goal posts just moved again I think......

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Two breaks here (one which is absolutely savage) he holds the ball in 1 hand (you use two to offload/pass) on both breaks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Iz6BJUdRE

He is very clearly looking for support in that clip ..... he looks left and he looks right and look where it is ... miles behind him and surrounded by men in white!

He does go to ground and the ball is recycled.





Really good clip to illustrate the pace problems - Luke Fitz would have been on Earls shoulder, though in fairness to Tommy Bowe he is shouting that to indicate that support is on the way. But you can see Ashton has passed Sexton from the two clips.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM6ck4ZsMgw

Go to 2mins and 7seconds this is the vision of a good player who makes a break

rodders wrote:I think Fitzgerald is far better than Earls, has achieved more than Earls, has been playing better than Earls (until his injury) but gets far more stick than Earls does for his mistakes and shortcomings.

Fitzgerald is smarter and more creative, a far better footballer but he lacks Earls pace and ability to finish.

Earls superior try scoring ratio has led to the incorrect notion that he's a better winger than Fitzgerald imo.

Earls to me is on par with McFadden. Good players in the right enviroment, surrounded by the right players, tactics and attacking and defensive patterns but badly exposed when taken out of their comfort zones and unable to play with their heads up. Players that need instructions and micro coaching.

Fitzgerald is different kettle of fish, he's sees space and has vision...a bit like Nacewa or Geordan Murphy, he just can be error prone at times.

rodders wrote:I think Fitzgerald is far better than Earls, has achieved more than Earls, has been playing better than Earls (until his injury) but gets far more stick than Earls does for his mistakes and shortcomings.

Fitzgerald is smarter and more creative, a far better footballer but he lacks Earls pace and ability to finish.

Earls superior try scoring ratio has led to the incorrect notion that he's a better winger than Fitzgerald imo.

Earls to me is on par with McFadden. Good players in the right enviroment, surrounded by the right players, tactics and attacking and defensive patterns but badly exposed when taken out of their comfort zones and unable to play with their heads up. Players that need instructions and micro coaching.

Fitzgerald is different kettle of fish, he's sees space and has vision...a bit like Nacewa or Geordan Murphy, he just can be error prone at times.

Sin é wrote:Well, I've always been a big fan of Luke Fitz. and have always defended him. One thing though when you compare the pair of them, Earls is a far better fullback than Luke and Earls has a far better international try scoring record than he has even though he has been pushed from pillar to post.

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:Well, I've always been a big fan of Luke Fitz. and have always defended him. One thing though when you compare the pair of them, Earls is a far better fullback than Luke and Earls has a far better international try scoring record than he has even though he has been pushed from pillar to post.

Wow some common ground. I agree on that .

I think the try scoring record needs to be kept in perspective however I have always thought Earls should have been a fullback and that is one position where he was top quality. Unfortunately its the one position he hasn't got a run in.

His best performance by far that I've seen was at 15 v England in 2011.

I don't think he's a good winger or centre but thats like just my opinion man .

rodders wrote:My perspective is that volume of tries scored alone only tells one part of the story (the way stats do ) and that to assess any player, even a winger, you need to look at the tries in context (opposition, importance, how they were scored etc.) as well as what else that particular player contibutes, or doesn't.

What I approve of with Zebo is that he scores tries and he also creates tries for himself and crucially others too. I don't believe the same is true with Earls.

rodders wrote:Fair point fly but I would counter that by suggesting that when Earls has ended up in his preferred 13 jersey he has also been a big culrit exasperating and instigating the window wiper attacking system.

rodders wrote:Doug Howlett doesn't just concentrate on try scoring though that is the point.

Every top winger comes of their wings to create opportunities. Hickie and Horgan where masters of it and Bowe is excellent at it too. Remember BODs try versus Blues last year created by Fitzgerald? Trimble is one of the hardest working wings around. Nacewa, brilliant creator..George North... the list goes on.

This is even more important against the top teams like NZ, France, Australia etc. because you won't get space against their structured defences out wide or be able to beat their players one on one so easily.

I'd suggest that is one of the reasons Earls never scores against these sides and the likes of Bowe do.

red_stag wrote:

rodders wrote:Fair point fly but I would counter that by suggesting that when Earls has ended up in his preferred 13 jersey he has also been a big culrit exasperating and instigating the window wiper attacking system.

I think everyone agrees the attacking system is the problem for the coaches.

profitius wrote:How about giving Earls some credit? He makes a few line breaks per game which is more than the majority of players. Joe Schmidt singled out Earls as a player he really rates.

SecretFly wrote:He is getting credit where it's due. Don't think many are knocking him. The usual problem when talking about Earls is the difference of opinion on his best position.

That can often be problematic because if you say it's one position then he already has competition there; if you say it's another position then someone comes along who feels he's not the best there either.

Ireland are graced by a lot of younger players at the moment who have roughly equal qualities rather than any of them having exceptional ability. Many positions up for grabs and only 15 to fill on a team, whether it's Provincial or International. There are bound to be disagreements and...verbal battles.

Sin é wrote:

profitius wrote:How about giving Earls some credit? He makes a few line breaks per game which is more than the majority of players. Joe Schmidt singled out Earls as a player he really rates.

I wonder is that why Whiff of Cordite have changed their tune on Earls (and are now waxing lyrically about him being the next Ireland centre (with McFadden)

Fairplay to McFadden for taking on Jerry Flannery on twitter yesterday!

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:He is getting credit where it's due. Don't think many are knocking him. The usual problem when talking about Earls is the difference of opinion on his best position.

That can often be problematic because if you say it's one position then he already has competition there; if you say it's another position then someone comes along who feels he's not the best there either.

Ireland are graced by a lot of younger players at the moment who have roughly equal qualities rather than any of them having exceptional ability. Many positions up for grabs and only 15 to fill on a team, whether it's Provincial or International. There are bound to be disagreements and...verbal battles.

For a bloke who has so much competition, its astounding at how few games he has started from the bench - 10 sub appearances in his entire career with both Ireland & Munster (and 4 of those were when he was a 19 year old in his first season with Munster).

As for the criticism - people are putting up utube clips of the highlight clips of the All Blacks and comparing him unfavourably to them.

profitius wrote:

Fergus McFadden ‏@fergmcfadden
Thanks to Ellen DeGeneres aka @jerryflannery for great coverage of the game on Saturday... pic.twitter.com/vsYH7Mf1

Jerry Flannery ‏@jerryflannery
@TheEllenShow Hey El, who'd you think Schmidt will pick at 12 this weekend ? I like Darce, great skills & not a Tinkywinky like @fergmcfadden

Fergus McFadden ‏@fergmcfadden
@jerryflannery @theellenshow El my friend looks like you and is a massive fan, any chance of a RT...cheers babes pic.twitter.com/6q938srt

Jerry Flannery ‏@jerryflannery
@fergmcfadden @theellenshow Don't mind him Ellen, here's a way better pic of me. BTW you're a ride. X pic.twitter.com/dh2kbvSS

Fergus McFadden ‏@fergmcfadden
@jerryflannery @theellenshow He is a famous Irish speaking commentator,could get him on your show for Sean Fhocails and get his roots done?x

Jerry Flannery ‏@jerryflannery 21h
@theellenshow Hey El, I'm actually the most successful hooker in Irish rugby, @fergmcfadden is a great utility back with a nice show & go

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:He is getting credit where it's due. Don't think many are knocking him. The usual problem when talking about Earls is the difference of opinion on his best position.

That can often be problematic because if you say it's one position then he already has competition there; if you say it's another position then someone comes along who feels he's not the best there either.

Ireland are graced by a lot of younger players at the moment who have roughly equal qualities rather than any of them having exceptional ability. Many positions up for grabs and only 15 to fill on a team, whether it's Provincial or International. There are bound to be disagreements and...verbal battles.

For a bloke who has so much competition, its astounding at how few games he has started from the bench - 10 sub appearances in his entire career with both Ireland & Munster (and 4 of those were when he was a 19 year old in his first season with Munster).

As for the criticism - people are putting up utube clips of the highlight clips of the All Blacks and comparing him unfavourably to them.

The perception of competition, Sin é. The perception of it. As in people here not agreeing with your reading and you not agreeing with other people's reading. I can't halt perceptions, I just admit they're around. This thread would seem to prove some of it. Earls is a certainly a topic for diverse views.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:He is getting credit where it's due. Don't think many are knocking him. The usual problem when talking about Earls is the difference of opinion on his best position.

That can often be problematic because if you say it's one position then he already has competition there; if you say it's another position then someone comes along who feels he's not the best there either.

Ireland are graced by a lot of younger players at the moment who have roughly equal qualities rather than any of them having exceptional ability. Many positions up for grabs and only 15 to fill on a team, whether it's Provincial or International. There are bound to be disagreements and...verbal battles.

For a bloke who has so much competition, its astounding at how few games he has started from the bench - 10 sub appearances in his entire career with both Ireland & Munster (and 4 of those were when he was a 19 year old in his first season with Munster).

As for the criticism - people are putting up utube clips of the highlight clips of the All Blacks and comparing him unfavourably to them.

The perception of competition, Sin é. The perception of it. As in people here not agreeing with your reading and you not agreeing with other people's reading. I can't halt perceptions, I just admit they're around. This thread would seem to prove some of it. Earls is a certainly a topic for diverse views.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:What do you Munster lads think of Penny putting Kilcoyne in to this game? In the interview Penny said it was a risk and we did win penalties off him, do you think it was a bad call putting in the young prop from the start of such a big game?