Shanghai Thread

[The Special Juan]

First topic message reminder :

Draw here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Shanghai_Rolex_Masters_%E2%80%93_Singles

Is it just me or is the court painfully slow?

[carrieg4]

Well played Djokovic, congratulations

[socal1976]

Well played Djokovic, congratulations

ty carrie that was a helluva a second set. Sad for Andy he fought very hard but it is finely poised between these two and so even.

[The Special Juan]

Djokovic was (just!!) the better player on the day. Definitely deserved the win and, aside from 1 of the match points which I think Murray could have done better, was amazing when on the back foot in the 2nd set. Great tennis to watch and I can't be disappointed because the better man on the day won.
(P.S: That hotdog )
(P.P.S: My laptop is broken so I'll be away for a while. Take care )

[carrieg4]

Well played Djokovic, congratulations

ty carrie that was a helluva a second set. Sad for Andy he fought very hard but it is finely poised between these two and so even.

Bodes well for the immediate future. Here's to the battles to come

[laverfan]

Very gutsy to save MPs and push through to win. AO 2013 should be very interesting. Seeding would play a significant role.

Congrats to you SoCal. is HMM around?

[User 774433]

Very gutsy to save MPs and push through to win.

No Djokovic has stamina.
Gutsiness is indirectly proportional to stamina remember

[Calder106]

Very annoyingly I couldn't watch the match and have been unable to post until now. Sounded like it was very close but after Djokovic won the second set he was in charge. So well done to Djokovic for a deserved win.. I look forward to more contests between them in the future. At the moment it seems very hard to predict who will win.

[summerblues]

BB, apologies for dragging you into an argument that I suppose should have been with me rather than with you.

[lydian]

Haven't watched the match...had a 3 hr match of my own to battle through!
Sounds like Djokovic played well on the MPs.
Did Murray tire at the end? (In contrast to Djokovic tiring USO in 5th)

[CaledonianCraig]

Haven't watched the match...had a 3 hr match of my own to battle through!
Sounds like Djokovic played well on the MPs.
Did Murray tire at the end? (In contrast to Djokovic tiring USO in 5th)

No I wouldn't say fatigue played a part. Novak's serve held up just that little bit better in key moments than Murray's I would say and the Serb played the key points that fraction better. The match could have gone either way though.

[Danny_1982]

I'm just watching the re-run on sky and its on the final game, and I have to say he DOES look fatigued to me. Moving really poorly.

That's quite a turnaround from New York, where Murray outlasted him.

[HM Murdock]

Congrats to you SoCal. is HMM around?

I'm back lurking after a brief sojourn!

Great match today and some lovely 2011-style drama from Novak. Looks like his form is peaking a little late for USO but just in time for the final dash in the race to YE#1.

It also looks as if today's match is generating a lot of positive comment in the media and a growing interest into the personalities and dynamics of the Djokovic-Murray rivalry. Hopefully Rafa will return and Fed will continue his resistance to Father Time. But even if both leave the scene sooner rather than later, I feel Novak and Andy are now gaining the status to be the sport's poster boys in their own right.

[Danny_1982]

HM - This is developing into a wonderful rivalry. If you look at today's match, the AO semi, the Olympic semi and the New York final, they were all decided by a few points and all full of drama.

They are so closely matched that I find it impossible to pick a winner during their matches.

Well done to Novak, important win for him today to end the streak vs top 4 rivals. I get the feeling the next epic between these 2 is not far away, and I think we're going to have to get used to them over the next couple of years.

[socal1976]

Very gutsy to save MPs and push through to win. AO 2013 should be very interesting. Seeding would play a significant role.

Congrats to you SoCal. is HMM around?

I haven't heard from murdoch on here in quite sometime I guess i have to go back to being the only hardcore Djoko fan on the site, if he is out there I'd love to hear from him. Cheers to him and all the Novak fans today.

[HM Murdock]

Danny, I agree fully. The match up needed Andy to make his recent step up because, prior to this year, I felt that if Novak plays his best, he beats Andy.

Now though, even if he plays his best, Andy may still beat him. They are so closely matched now that the smallest margins, almost intangibles, can decide the match. It's an exciting match up!

The remaining factor to be seen is if Andy can find the consistency and eliminate early exits in the way that Novak has. Andy has won two biggies this year but virtually nothing else - just a single 250 back in January. We know he will be a force in the slams but he needs more consistency if he wants a decent crack at the number 1 spot.

[socal1976]

Congrats to you SoCal. is HMM around?

I'm back lurking after a brief sojourn!

Great match today and some lovely 2011-style drama from Novak. Looks like his form is peaking a little late for USO but just in time for the final dash in the race to YE#1.

It also looks as if today's match is generating a lot of positive comment in the media and a growing interest into the personalities and dynamics of the Djokovic-Murray rivalry. Hopefully Rafa will return and Fed will continue his resistance to Father Time. But even if both leave the scene sooner rather than later, I feel Novak and Andy are now gaining the status to be the sport's poster boys in their own right.

There you are murdoch I was just lamenting your abscence, nice to have you back. I agree completely if this is the type of contest these two are going to turn in from here on out we are in for another special rivalry at the very top of the game. These two have separated themselves from everyone right now and in my mind this rivalry will be the biggest one in tennis in terms of deciding major honors over the course of the next two or three years. He looks very strong right now to get the year end #1. That is a testament to his ability because he had a torn back muscle last year, numerous close defeats, and went through a doldrums the last few months due to all that was going on. Still with all of his reduced form from last year he is looking like he will have relatively comfortable finish as the world #1.

Now we can talk about new Novak streaks
-2 consecutive tourney wins
-5 straight finals
-9 straight semis

Its not 40 some odd in a row but he is starting to get that maniacal look in his eyes again. And for his part Murray looks to be the best player of the last few months although now Novak is peaking.

[socal1976]

Very gutsy to save MPs and push through to win.

No Djokovic has stamina.
Gutsiness is indirectly proportional to stamina remember

Its that lung power that lets you hit lines that seemlessly on match point for certain. (Sarcasm warning: the following post is an attempt at sarcasm)

[HM Murdock]

Hi Socal!
Another significant milestone - Novak has now made the final of all 9 TMS and has won 7 of them. He must have a decent chance of getting a career "Masters Slam" now. Just Rafa's Monte Carlo fortress and that jinxed Cincy to go!

[socal1976]

Hi Socal!
Another significant milestone - Novak has now made the final of all 9 TMS and has won 7 of them. He must have a decent chance of getting a career "Masters Slam" now. Just Rafa's Monte Carlo fortress and that jinxed Cincy to go!

Yes Novak is racking up masters at a frighening pace that is now 13 a very nice number he has an outside shot at the record.

[HM Murdock]

Hi Socal!
Another significant milestone - Novak has now made the final of all 9 TMS and has won 7 of them. He must have a decent chance of getting a career "Masters Slam" now. Just Rafa's Monte Carlo fortress and that jinxed Cincy to go!

Yes Novak is racking up masters at a frighening pace that is now 13 a very nice number he has an outside shot at the record.

Indeed. This time two years ago, he only had 5! It's been an incredible couple of years. 12 TMS finals in that time!

[socal1976]

Murdoch what was so strange and a little nerve racking about this performance was that Djokovic could not for a set an a half get his first serve over. He was in the 40s at the end of the first set. All week and even last week in Beijing he served lights out and at a very high percentage. Coming into this match he was serving at 71 percent first serves, and then to be in the forties against murray for the first half of the match was very poor. He did finish up very strong on serve holding I believe 6 or 7 times in a row to finish, but early in the match he couldn't buy a first serve.

[HM Murdock]

Murdoch what was so strange and a little nerve racking about this performance was that Djokovic could not for a set an a half get his first serve over.

I really feared the worst at that point! I'm not sure my nerves could have taken another tournament where he sails through to the final, only to lose confidence on his serve in the final v a top 4 player!

The serve and first shot has been the Achilles heel since the clay season. Being able to pull it round today will I think be a huge psychological boost.

Despite his great numbers in Asia, I still don't think his serve is quite firing on all pistons yet. There has still been the tendency to throw in a terrible service game out of the blue. It's SO much better than the dark days of June and July though!

[ryan86]

The remaining factor to be seen is if Andy can find the consistency and eliminate early exits in the way that Novak has. Andy has won two biggies this year but virtually nothing else - just a single 250 back in January. We know he will be a force in the slams but he needs more consistency if he wants a decent crack at the number 1 spot.

This is not a slight on those players that beat him, but I do wonder whether there was some sort of plan concocted by Lendl in that these are the 5 tournaments that matter this year. You don't want to work towards Montreal, Queens etc. and so that this year, at least, the target was more geared towards trying to get that Slam at the expense of other tournaments. He has already won these.

[socal1976]

Murdoch what was so strange and a little nerve racking about this performance was that Djokovic could not for a set an a half get his first serve over.

I really feared the worst at that point! I'm not sure my nerves could have taken another tournament where he sails through to the final, only to lose confidence on his serve in the final v a top 4 player!

The serve and first shot has been the Achilles heel since the clay season. Being able to pull it round today will I think be a huge psychological boost.

Despite his great numbers in Asia, I still don't think his serve is quite firing on all pistons yet. There has still been the tendency to throw in a terrible service game out of the blue. It's SO much better than the dark days of June and July though!

I disagree slightly here I don't see the serve as being the problem. I mean it was in this match but coming into this match he had won 86 percnt of points on first serve and was serving at 71 percent first serve clip. Those are excellent numbers for anyone. The forehand and serve are linked and especially for Djoko because he hasn't backed it up very well with the forehand when he was slumping. But I do agree with the loose service games point. Usually those games he loses on serve aren't because he is double faulting or getting his serve crushed, it is often due to loose forehands on points that he is dictating and often looking to finish, but fails to do effectively with that shot. I think the serve itself in isolation has been pretty good the last few months.

I do agree however he isn't quite in top gear yet although I think he did finish against murray pretty close to top gear, one positive however is that he did hold his last 6 or 7 service games in a row once he got his first serve over. The great thing though as a Djoko fan is that despite his mid season loss of form he still has been good enough to go into the last month and half of the season with a strong lead for number 1. So look out when he plays like he did in the second half of the match more regularly. It is great to be slumping your way to number 1.

[bogbrush]

Can anyone point to a time when a player hits top form for more than a few months?

It never happens.

[HM Murdock]

Can anyone point to a time when a player hits top form for more than a few months?

It never happens.

No, I agree. But if we could plot a graph of form, I would expect to see slopes - a player builds in form, peaks, declines and gradually builds back to form.

Djokovic this year has had 'valleys'. The general level has been consistently good but with sudden big drops for a match here and there, usually vs another top 4 player. It has been an odd pattern.

Now I think of it, Fed has had a similar pattern this year. But one is a 25 year old supposedly in his prime, the other a 31 year old with, I strongly suspect, a very pick-and-choose approach to what tournaments command his full attention.

[Henman Bill]

Summer Blues, I looked at the race to AO and I probably was a bit wrong to say Murray could get 1 if he finished the year very well and then won the AO. It is mathematically possible, but not very likely. Looks like probably Djokovic will be #1 after the AO, maybe Federer if he wins the tournament, Murray only an outside chance.

I've put some more info on the thread I posted today.

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