Wales Squad - Any shocks expected UPDATED SQUAD ATTACHED

by bedfordwelsh Mon 22 Oct 2012, 8:10 am

First topic message reminder :

So Howley names is 28 (I imagine) man squad today for the AIs, are we expecting any shock inclusions/exclusions.

I think the main squad generally picks itself so I guess its what back up players Howley goes for.

I hope am wrong but I have a sneaky feeling that Biggar will still be overlooked, whilst I hope the likes of Prydie and young Samson Lee are at least involved i the squad.

by Higher_Ground Thu 25 Oct 2012, 8:32 am

Hi Luckless, I know that Warburton isn't an ideal 6, it's just that he's been named captain, and I am praying that they have the sense to play Tipuric at 7.
Faletau for me, hasn't had the spark of last year, and I am in no way writing him off, but there are two players - Tipuric and Ryan Jones - that I really think we need on the field from the start.
For my money, Scott Williams and JD banged their heads against a brick wall in Australia, and got nothing for their troubles. I think that beck offers much mire ability to draw opposition defenders and then release JD.
I would have Scott Williams' face tattooed on my face after the try he scored against England, but he really can have tunnel vision at times. We're not going to get many opportunities against Nz and Australia, we need to be as clinical as possible.
I left North out as well. Gulp.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 25 Oct 2012, 8:39 am

You have to say that on form, Cuthbert deserves a start over North, but again, you can bet that Howley already has North inked in to start.

I honestly think that Howley (and possibly Gatland too) have this idea that Wales have done well recently because Warburton's been captain. For me, it's no more than a coincidence. Let's not forget that he wouldn't have been captain at all had Matthew Rees not got injured. This belief saw Warburton play (as captain) against Australia in the summer when he'd barely played for months and the world and his wife could see he wasn't at his best. The fact that he's named as squad captain again disappoints me because it confirms that he's guaranteed to start again.

by maestegmafia Thu 25 Oct 2012, 9:09 am

Recwatcher wrote:Not sure what Ospreys are feeding Jarvis with as didn't really break through from the academy to claim a starting spot at Bath. However many were surprised when he stated he had a welsh grandmother and was going to head west, but it seems to have worked out and good luck to him. We have swapped him for James as it has turned out, who so far has been going well, although we have several significant clashes coming up.

RW

I watched the Jonathan Humphreys interview on the Ospreys site yesterday, he said he had his eye on Jarvis from youth level. He was a good lad, but prone to a foot injury. He has taken a lot of time out the game to recover, at this point he decided that a different environment to Bath RFC might help ignite his passion.

He's been a real asset to the Ospreys, as I am sure you'll agree Paul James is being to you.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 25 Oct 2012, 9:16 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You have to say that on form, Cuthbert deserves a start over North, but again, you can bet that Howley already has North inked in to start.
I honestly think that Howley (and possibly Gatland too) have this idea that Wales have done well recently because Warburton's been captain. For me, it's no more than a coincidence. Let's not forget that he wouldn't have been captain at all had Matthew Rees not got injured. This belief saw Warburton play (as captain) against Australia in the summer when he'd barely played for months and the world and his wife could see he wasn't at his best. The fact that he's named as squad captain again disappoints me because it confirms that he's guaranteed to start again.

Based on last week I would agree, but on the season as a whole, so far, North would probably be the first name on the team sheet as he has made some steam rolling runs (against connacht and off the first line against CA in france). But that said I honestly can't see our backline coping if we ditched either of them. Most likely Biggar will start instead of Priestland and that will be the only change in the backline (and maybe Knoyle instead of Phillips if/when he is unavailable).

by maestegmafia Thu 25 Oct 2012, 9:16 am

Higher_Ground wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
Higher_Ground wrote:Hi Maesteg, I have no issue with the squad selection, apart from leaving Rhys Gill out, it's the inevitable starting 15 that will be disappointing I fear.

HG,

What would your starting XV compared to what you think it will be

Hi Bedford, honestly, I'd go for the team below. For what it's worth as a humble fan, and in no way the font of all knowledge:

1. Rhys Gill - Playing in a league where the scrummage is important, alongside Smit, Britz et al. Gethin sitting on a bench.
2. Richard Hibbard - worked on his throwing, his fitness and puts himself around with purpose, not just pointless bluster.
3. Adam Jones
4. AWJ -
5. Ian Evans- This is a good partnership, and selection made easier by the fact that Bradley Davies has been below par.
6. Sam Warburton
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Ryan Jones
9. Mike Phillips - Picked on reputation as none of the others are playing well enough
10. Dan Biggar - Has to be given a fair shot at it, with a decent pack, not 10 minutes after being told he's being cut from the squad.
11. Alex Cuthbert
12. Ashley Beck
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Lee Halfpenny
15. Liam Williams

16. Ryan Bevington
17. Ken owens/Huw Bennett
18. Luke Charteris
19. Toby Faletau
20. Tavis Knoyle
21. Stephen Jones
22. Jamie Roberts
23. Scott Williams

HG

Nice work, that's a good team there mate.

I would be happy to see that out. I think Paul james and gethin jenkins are ahead of Rhys Gill, james plays in the same league as him and gethin in a tougher one, also being ton is proving him self a good loosehead this season.

I see your backrow is interesting, I'd go for a specialist six rather than two opensides. So it's Tuperic or Warburton forme and Shingler or Jones at six.

by Higher_Ground Thu 25 Oct 2012, 9:22 am

That is 100% spot on. Warburton on form is sheer class, no denying it, but how they thought it was fair to take him to Australia after shoulder surgery and say "right, go and find some form againstthe Australians", is anyone's guess.
After the season he had put in, he deserved a break, with a proper spell of rehab and a decent pre-season.
There is actually a formula by which you can actually work out the entire matchday squad selection. It goes; Priestland will start, therefore Halfpenny will start, meaning Hook will be on the bench, meaning Biggar misses the bench. Roberts will start meaning JD will start, meaning Scott Williams will bench, meaning Beck misses the bench. Etc etc.

I'll be 100% behind whoever they pick though to be honest. Everyone in the squad deserves their place, I just hate seeing the same formula gettig the same results.

by maestegmafia Thu 25 Oct 2012, 9:29 am

Higher_Ground wrote:

I'll be 100% behind whoever they pick though to be honest. Everyone in the squad deserves their place, I just hate seeing the same formula gettig the same results.

Fair enough but consistent selection also builds team unity. Look at many great sides and you can rattle off the starting fifteen prop to fullback like you just read the team sheet.

Consistent selection is not an issue with me.

Though like you said, you wish to see improving results. It's hard to gauge improvement if we are not winning.

Hopefully the Australia tour will have woken the team up a bit and given them something to prove. That was a tough ask on them, they failed, but now they have no excuses and they have the target of fighting four a top four ranking in the last chance saloon.

by Higher_Ground Thu 25 Oct 2012, 11:08 am

Here's hoping, and I know selecting a team isn't just about sticking the best 15 you can think of down on paper (although that's what I did), but there must be genuine and transparent competition for places.
I think that Sam Warburton works as a captain in the sense that he leads, and the rest of the team try to follow. His leadership style involves him putting in a big performance, and that's what he needs to recapture. I'm sure he will.
Warburton, Tipuric, Navidi, Lewis Evans, Sam Lewis. If only we were as saturated in other positions.

by maestegmafia Thu 25 Oct 2012, 12:34 pm

We just need to get back to where we were at the RWC

by bedfordwelsh Thu 25 Oct 2012, 2:05 pm

HG,

The one argument I have over Warburton at 6 is if he isnt considerded in good enough form to play in his natural position of 7 how is he in good enough form to play out of position.

I don't have a problem with Tipuric starting and think he should but we shouldn't then just shoe horn Sam in to play.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 25 Oct 2012, 2:15 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:HG,

The one argument I have over Warburton at 6 is if he isnt considerded in good enough form to play in his natural position of 7 how is he in good enough form to play out of position.

I don't have a problem with Tipuric starting and think he should but we shouldn't then just shoe horn Sam in to play.

Ain't his natural position number 8? Thats where he played his age grade stuff. But to be honest other than when your packing down the number on your back is irrelevant. People will play the game in their own style with the ball in open play. Sam is a different style openside to Tipuric, who is different in style to Navidi etc etc. The main thing is to have three players who work well together in the back row.

by Higher_Ground Thu 25 Oct 2012, 2:32 pm

Bedford, a good point, but he's definitely going to start, so I was just doing a bit of wishful thinking. We aren't really a big ball carrying open side sort of team, and I think that Sam's destructive work at the breakdown would outweigh a better ball carrier like Shingler, especially against teams who thrive on quick ball (Australia) and New Zealand, who destroy opposition ruck ball.
He played a lot of 6 at the Blues when Martyn Williams was there, and as mentioned, he's played a lot at 8.

by bedfordwelsh Fri 26 Oct 2012, 1:14 pm

Yeah but he has come to prominence as a No7.

For our sake and his I really really hope we don't go down the road we did with Hook whereby we shoe horn him into any position just to get him on the field

by maestegmafia Fri 26 Oct 2012, 2:26 pm

I just hope the Welsh back row start performing like they did this time last year in the RWC in NZ. They were superb...

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 26 Oct 2012, 2:32 pm

maestegmafia wrote:I just hope the Welsh back row start performing like they did this time last year in Australia. They were superb...

I hope the back row (and back line) perform like they did in New Zealand last year.

by Seagultaf Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:49 pm

Interesting to see posters picking Beck. No doubt that he had a great season in the Rabo last year, but from what I have seen of the Ospreys this season he is way off form.

For me a centre has to be quick, and that is Beck's problem, he looks one paced even at Rabo level. If JD2 is not fit, there is a real problem for Wales. Roberts is an out and out 12 as is Beck who lacks pace at 12 so he has no chance at 13. Scott Williams is a lot quicker but is he quick enough to play 13 for Wales?

by maestegmafia Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:55 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:I just hope the Welsh back row start performing like they did this time last year in Australia. They were superb...

I hope the back row (and back line) perform like they did in New Zealand last year.

I wish i could remember what happened six months ago, let alone a year ago...

I've been trying to find the biscuits for the last twenty minutes.

Apologies for the typo... it happens.

by maestegmafia Fri 26 Oct 2012, 3:58 pm

Seagultaf wrote:Interesting to see posters picking Beck. No doubt that he had a great season in the Rabo last year, but from what I have seen of the Ospreys this season he is way off form.

For me a centre has to be quick, and that is Beck's problem, he looks one paced even at Rabo level. If JD2 is not fit, there is a real problem for Wales. Roberts is an out and out 12 as is Beck who lacks pace at 12 so he has no chance at 13. Scott Williams is a lot quicker but is he quick enough to play 13 for Wales?

Beck has played really well in the last five games, I have been very happy with him. Both he and Williams and Roberts have all played 12 and 13 plenty of times they regularly switch during games.

I think centre, considering we have Warren, Hughes, Maule, Bishop all pushing for starts, is an area of strength in Welsh rugby.

by Seagultaf Fri 26 Oct 2012, 6:42 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:Interesting to see posters picking Beck. No doubt that he had a great season in the Rabo last year, but from what I have seen of the Ospreys this season he is way off form.

For me a centre has to be quick, and that is Beck's problem, he looks one paced even at Rabo level. If JD2 is not fit, there is a real problem for Wales. Roberts is an out and out 12 as is Beck who lacks pace at 12 so he has no chance at 13. Scott Williams is a lot quicker but is he quick enough to play 13 for Wales?

Beck has played really well in the last five games, I have been very happy with him. Both he and Williams and Roberts have all played 12 and 13 plenty of times they regularly switch during games.

I think centre, considering we have Warren, Hughes, Maule, Bishop all pushing for starts, is an area of strength in Welsh rugby.

Beck had a decent game against Treviso (who are not up to much) but other than that he has been pretty poor, to the extent that his team mate Bishop has looked the pick of the Ospreys threequarters.

I have not seen Roberts play 13 at all, even with Hook as his centre partner, Roberts played 12. Williams has played 13 but struggles a bit for pace when he is playing wider.

Warren I belive is injured, Maul & Bishop are good club centres, but I agree that Hughes looks good and if he was playing for a more fashionable side would probably have a hatfull of caps by now.

by maestegmafia Sat 27 Oct 2012, 9:32 am

Roberts has played outside hook, Henson and Davies over the last four years.

by Seagultaf Sat 27 Oct 2012, 2:10 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Roberts has played outside hook, Henson and Davies over the last four years.

OK a couple of times early in his career, but never looked comfortable at 13 so his established partnerships with both Hook and Davies have been with Roberts at 12 despite both Hook and Davies prefering 12. I do recall him playing once at 13 with Henson, that was a long time ago and again not a successful partnership.

The fact remains that Roberts is an out and out 12, for his club, county and the Lions. Assuming Wales play their best back in his best position who plays 13 if JD2 is injured?

by maestegmafia Sat 27 Oct 2012, 3:16 pm

Davies has spent this and last season at 13 and has been superb. Williams or Hook, even Beck could do well with Roberts at 12.

I don't think there is a concern there.

I would really like to see Adam Hughes get a go, he certainly deserves it, but not right now. I'd rather see a settled squad this Autumn.

by thebluesmancometh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 3:24 pm

Ye I think MM is right, way too many problems to be worrying about the centres who are pretty strong!!!

I disagree with Hughes though, he looks good against very poor opposition and very lacking when the Dragons come up against it.

Last night he was in a 3 way race to a chip V Pienaar and Brown (blindside) and finished 3rd.

I think Hughes looks sharp with ball in hand, in open space with few people around him, other than that he takes contact too much and offers little to those outside him.

by maestegmafia Sat 27 Oct 2012, 3:38 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:Ye I think MM is right, way too many problems to be worrying about the centres who are pretty strong!!!

I didn't say that...!

Second time today you suggested what I have said falsely.

One more ill report you.

by Seagultaf Sat 27 Oct 2012, 3:45 pm

Davies is injured!

by thebluesmancometh Sat 27 Oct 2012, 3:47 pm

Davies has spent this and last season at 13 and has been superb. Williams or Hook, even Beck could do well with Roberts at 12.

I don't think there is a concern there.

How does that not say that that we have strong centre options?!

I think you need to lay off the coffee mate, your getting very highly strung over me agreeing with you

by Seagultaf Sat 27 Oct 2012, 8:21 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:Davies has spent this and last season at 13 and has been superb. Williams or Hook, even Beck could do well with Roberts at 12.

I don't think there is a concern there.

How does that not say that that we have strong centre options?!

I think you need to lay off the coffee mate, your getting very highly strung over me agreeing with you

Read my post..........Davies is injured!

The rest are out and out 12s! 12 and 13 are very different positions, the key difference is that to play 13 pace is an essential ingredient. Williams has a little, Beck and Hook do not.

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Wales Squad - Any shocks expected UPDATED SQUAD ATTACHED

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