Wales Squad - Any shocks expected UPDATED SQUAD ATTACHED

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So Howley names is 28 (I imagine) man squad today for the AIs, are we expecting any shock inclusions/exclusions.

I think the main squad generally picks itself so I guess its what back up players Howley goes for.

I hope am wrong but I have a sneaky feeling that Biggar will still be overlooked, whilst I hope the likes of Prydie and young Samson Lee are at least involved i the squad.

Fair call... said the same.

Only suprise for me si Harry Robinson, he is behind Tom James at the Blues and there are other back three players playing far better than him at present. A good run for the Blues at LV level would have been far better for his development.

Also concerns about lack of depth at prop and outside half. Andrews and Bevington have not impressed me as being strong scrumagers. If Adam is injured and Melon kept in France, the cuboard looks bare!

Priestland is playing behind a poor pack at the Scarlets and is way off form with his goal kicking. Biggar struggles under pressure and Hook is at best an utilty bench player. Perhaps Steven Jones can bring his zimmer frame!

Bevington is actually strong in the scrum, don't judge one game yesterday with Roman Poite as ref on Bevingtons ability to scrumage.

Id say Bevington has been a strong performer this season he has been a really good all rounder.

maestegmafia wrote:I wonder if peripheral squad members will be released for LV = or regional duty over the weekends?

Players like Andrews, Robinson, Williams could all do with game time.

You would like to think so Maes but then again ther shouldn't be any Regional games played during AIs or 6 Nations., obviously the Oz game is outside window

What I meant was the lads I mentioned, would gain more from playing in the LV= if they are not needed on match days.

Seagultaf wrote:Priestland is playing behind a poor pack at the Scarlets and is way off form with his goal kicking. Biggar struggles under pressure and Hook is at best an utilty bench player.

Have you seen Hook play this season? Has anyone? I'd love to know how he's getting on for Perpignan. If he's been playing regularly at outide half and showing he can control a game (and hasn't been getting charged down) then he's definitely in with a shout.

Hook has been playing really well. you can read reports if you don't have ESPN to watch games on planet rugby or scrum.com.

USAP beating Toulouse 34 - 20 was his best performance.

I did read something about the Perpignan fans being unhappy with him in one match because he was playing a conservative kicking game - but that was what the coaches had asked him to do, and you can bet that Howley / Gatland would want him to do plenty of kicking in the AIs.

He's such a naturally talented footballer. We'd be fools to dismiss him out of hand.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I did read something about the Perpignan fans being unhappy with him in one match because he was playing a conservative kicking game - but that was what the coaches had asked him to do, and you can bet that Howley / Gatland would want him to do plenty of kicking in the AIs.

He's such a naturally talented footballer. We'd be fools to dismiss him out of hand.

As i said there are plenty of reports from all the games he's played free and available on Planet Rugby and ESPN's websites. They cover Top 14 in English.

I agree with most comments on here, seems to be pretty close to our best selection (nice settled squad) - but am very surprised both Turnbull and McGog were selected, I thought he would have chosen any of Evans, Navidi or 1 less backrower than choose McGog.

Defiantely would have had Prydie in instead of Robinson (the Dragons are lucky though), but would have been very happy with Byrne or even Stodds as a leftfield squad selection.

Why is Williams in instead of Webb?

And personally I would have put Gill in instead of Andrews, and looked to play James at TH as he's better than Andrews.

I notice that right now the French based players are not available for the squad trip to Poland for this coming weekend nor for the match against Australia on 1st Dec.

Howley is apparently in discussions with the relevant clubs:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20035306

LondonTiger wrote:I notice that right now the French based players are not available for the squad trip to Poland for this coming weekend nor for the match against Australia on 1st Dec.

Howley is apparently in discussions with the relevant clubs:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20035306

Yep the decision is down to the clubs' coaches and president, I think that the WRU contact them, as well as sending a crate of the remaining Evans sisters purchased bottles of Perrier-Jouët to the President of the FFR.

If I received a crate of that i would happily do what ever you wished.

The only concession from the French clubs is Charteris is available for the last game against Australia.

I would have picked Duncan Jones for the AI's it was noticeable when he came on against the Tigers the Ospreys got on top, as soon as Bev came back on he gave a penalty away.

Bishop has had a few good games but was poor on Sunday so fair call not to pick him (Beck was nowhere to be seen in the same game). Robinson is not up to it but is a much better prospect than James at the Blues.

Overall no great shocks in the selection, I don't rate Preistland, Andrews and can't understand why the Scarlets have three number 6's in the squad I would have liked to see Lewis Evans in the squad as a 6/7.

Glam

Prob with Shanks is that what does he offer that others don't in spades. He has a solid but unspectacular all round game, but he doesn't do one thing effectively enough to oust anyone!!

glamorganalun wrote:The only concession from the French clubs is Charteris is available for the last game against Australia.

I would have picked Duncan Jones for the AI's it was noticeable when he came on against the Tigers the Ospreys got on top, as soon as Bev came back on he gave a penalty away.

Bishop has had a few good games but was poor on Sunday so fair call not to pick him (Beck was nowhere to be seen in the same game). Robinson is not up to it but is a much better prospect than James at the Blues.

Overall no great shocks in the selection, I don't rate Preistland, Andrews and can't understand why the Scarlets have three number 6's in the squad I would have liked to see Lewis Evans in the squad as a 6/7.

I really didn't think this selection was too much of a surprise. I agree that Robinsons inclusion was a little unjust on others, considering his lack of game time but I would never say that any player doesn't have what it takes when they are as young as him.

I also agree that McGog and Turnbull are lucky, Shingler deserves his place though. But Lewis Evans has done nothing of note this season.

viewtothegym wrote:Only Shock is no Byrne, beyond that the team pretty much picks itself.
Happy for Jarvis thou he deserves his call up.

I don't think Byrne is a shock - I've watched CA 4 times this season and not seen enough from him for a recall. I don't think he'll feature again unlesss there are a number of injuries.

Regardless of our feelings - or form - the team will be:

The team WILL be:

Gethin
Rees
Adam
AWJ
Ian Evans
Ryan jones
Warburton
Faletau
Phillips
Priestland
Cuthbo
Roberts
JD
North
Halfpenny

Bevington
Hibbard
Charteris/Davies
Tipuric
Lloyd Williams
Hook
Beck.

Nailed. On.

Surely Paul James would be there before Bevington?

Seeing how much disgruntled members we have contributing. Why don't you post WHO YOU WOULD HAVE SELECTED instead.

Is it really that much different to what Gatland/Howley have done?

Maes - ain't the point of the htread to discuss the squad that was announced, and to then comment on who should feel upset not to be involved, and who has been fortunate to have been included? After all it would be a short thread if it were a case of 'The Welsh squad is ......' followed by a handfull of 'Well done Robert Howley for selecting exactly the right squad that we all agree on'.

True but there is a rather surprising amount of despondency, considering our recent international record, 4th RWC, GS number 3, close series in Oz after the longest international season Wales has ever played.

I think the negative attitudes have far more to do with recent regional poor form rather than International expectation.

Far too much whinging about marginal selection decisions of mainly fourth choice players that are likely to get bench places.

Two points

1) We did have a few seasons of the 'Untouchables' and this squad does have shades of selection based on the player being involved in the last squad, as opposed to selection of players due to form.

2) This is a Welsh squad announcement, so naturally it will either be the side that will put a century on the All Blacks or it will be the side that will be prision-shamed by a minow nation if we were to play them.

Personnally I think that the likes of Dan Evans, Tom Prydie, Andy Fenby and even Thom James have all played far better than Harry Robinson. And I believe they all deserve a call up. However Harry Robinson is young, and also has been involved before.

Then in the backrow I think that Josh Turnbull and Rob McCusker are both lucky to be selected. Seeing as the Scarlets pack is getting creamed week in week out, it seems odd that every Welsh Qualified player (bar Phil John) in our first choice pack has been selected. Especially when you look at back row options, Lewis Evans, Jevon Groves, Josh Navidi and possibly even Bearman/JT could all have been considered instead of these, however again Rob and Josh have been involved in the last Welsh squad.

And as mentioned before elsewhere the majority of the squad are just their to help those in the first team hit the levels required, familiarity with being in the squad will be better than trying to blood new guy and distract from the goal of getting in the top four of the IRB rankings.

Think is when we come to the Australia game we will be missing;

Gethin Jenkins and Paul James in the front row
Luke Charteris in the second row
Mike Phillips at scrum half
James Hook at fly half / utility back.

So some of the areas people are arguing about like the front row options (Adam, Bev, Andrews, Jarvis) and scrum half (Knoyle or Williams) are pretty important. If we have not got the quality there in the squad then we could end up blowing our chances at the 4th spot. But that said if the 4th ranking was so important to us we would have planned to tour Argentina or Samoa over he summer as opposed to Australia, and we aould have booked slightly easier sides this Autumn than the All Blacks.

No Navidi

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Think is when we come to the Australia game we will be missing;

Gethin Jenkins and Paul James in the front row
Luke Charteris in the second row
Mike Phillips at scrum half
James Hook at fly half / utility back.

So some of the areas people are arguing about like the front row options (Adam, Bev, Andrews, Jarvis) and scrum half (Knoyle or Williams) are pretty important. If we have not got the quality there in the squad then we could end up blowing our chances at the 4th spot. But that said if the 4th ranking was so important to us we would have planned to tour Argentina or Samoa over he summer as opposed to Australia, and we aould have booked slightly easier sides this Autumn than the All Blacks.

Not necessarily... The WRU, Howley and Gatland are apparently working very hard in France over the next few weeks trying to get release.

I would imagine Paul James is a lost hope.

I dont think there is any reason to think we can add to the squad should we need to if players are unavailable because negotiations don't go well with one club or another.

Front row options, maybe Andrews is the most contentious. Scrum Half I think Knoyle and Williams are both getting some ridiculous accusations against their play from posters on here, when realistically they are playing well.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Think is when we come to the Australia game we will be missing;

Gethin Jenkins and Paul James in the front row
Luke Charteris in the second row
Mike Phillips at scrum half
James Hook at fly half / utility back.

So some of the areas people are arguing about like the front row options (Adam, Bev, Andrews, Jarvis) and scrum half (Knoyle or Williams) are pretty important. If we have not got the quality there in the squad then we could end up blowing our chances at the 4th spot. But that said if the 4th ranking was so important to us we would have planned to tour Argentina or Samoa over he summer as opposed to Australia, and we aould have booked slightly easier sides this Autumn than the All Blacks.

SS,

Front row is a concern with both 1st and 2nd choice props unavailable also we are not brilliant at No 9 currently.

As for Hook and Charteris neither IMO would have started though if I was picking team then Luke would.

I thought Charteris was allowed to play.

Bevington, Hibbard and Jarvis are perfectly good enough.

Adam jones possibly out of the Argentina game.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20069327

Higher_Ground wrote:Regardless of our feelings - or form - the team will be:

The team WILL be:

Gethin
Rees
Adam
AWJ
Ian Evans
Ryan jones
Warburton
Faletau
Phillips
Priestland
Cuthbo
Roberts
JD
North
Halfpenny

Bevington
Hibbard
Charteris/Davies
Tipuric
Lloyd Williams
Hook
Beck.

Nailed. On.

I think Charteris/Davies will be picked before I Evans for some reason I can't work out e.g., in Aust Evans did not get on against Aust. If Lydiate could stand up he would be at 6.

I agree the team is already selected regardless of Preistland can't kick, Faletau constantly dropping the ball, Phillips taking an age to pass the ball and Warburton not playing longer than 40 minutes.

glamorganalun wrote:

Higher_Ground wrote:Regardless of our feelings - or form - the team will be:

The team WILL be:

Gethin
Rees
Adam
AWJ
Ian Evans
Ryan jones
Warburton
Faletau
Phillips
Priestland
Cuthbo
Roberts
JD
North
Halfpenny

Bevington
Hibbard
Charteris/Davies
Tipuric
Lloyd Williams
Hook
Beck.

Nailed. On.

I think Charteris/Davies will be picked before I Evans for some reason I can't work out e.g., in Aust Evans did not get on against Aust. If Lydiate could stand up he would be at 6.

I agree the team is already selected regardless of Preistland can't kick, Faletau constantly dropping the ball, Phillips taking an age to pass the ball and Warburton not playing longer than 40 minutes.

So should Wales play those players you mention above that are under performing in your opinion or do you have better suggestions? If so, lets hear them...!

On form 23

1. Paul James
2. Richard Hibbard
3. Adam Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Bradley Davies
6. Josh Navidi
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Ryan Jones
9. no form 9s, unless Phillips is playing well
10. Dan Biggar
11. George North
12. Scott Williams
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Ryan Bevington
17. Samson Lee (haven't been as impressed with Jarvis this year)
18. Matthew Rees
19. Ian Evans
20. Sam Warburton
21. ....
22. Rhys Patchell (on form alone!)
23. Liam Williams


My matchday 23 vs Aus/NZ

1. Gethin Jenkins - On from his is a matchwinner at the breakdown

2. Matthew Rees - More reliable than Hibbard, proven player with leadership in the pack

3. Adam Jones - No brainer

4. Alun Wyn Jones - On form, our best lock at the moment

5. Luke Charteris - Experienced, hopefully will have gotten back to his world cup form in France

6. Ryan Jones (c) - Easy decision, earns back the captaincy temporarily for the Autumn.

7. Justin Tipuric - Warburton simply cannot be picked based on his form in Aus and for the Blues, he hasn't been at his best since the WC. Drop him and see if he rises to the challenge from the bench.

8. Toby Faletau - Lack of options, have to hope he has a good run of game beforehand

9. Mike Phillips - No other option, potential to turn a match

10. Dan Biggar - A risk against Aus/ABs but we need a more reliable 10 than Preistland, and if 1/2p gets injured Preistland CANNOT play for Wales so we need a backup who isn't James Hook. Give him a chance with a first choice welsh 15.

11. George North - No brainer, no competition

12. Jamie Roberts - He does still perform for Wales and is a defensive beacon in midfield

13. Jonathon Davies - No brainer, no competition, first name on the teamsheet after Adam.

14. Alex Cuthbert - See no11

15. Leigh Halfpenny - Reliable, disciplined, excellent goal kicker, Liam Williams has a lot of work to do if he wants this position.

16. Paul James
17. Aaron Jarvis
18. Richard Hibbard/Ken Owens (50/50)
19. Ian Evans
20. Sam Warburton
21. Anyone, they should bring a book
22. Rhys Priestland - useful should the game breakup, more reliable than Hook.
23. Scott Williams - Playing better than Beck, Preistland covers back 3 so a centre gets 23.

Interesting read mate, cheers for the effort entailed...

Id say Ryan Jones has only played 6 and that maybe JT is the best 8 so far...?

Other than that though Nalvidi and Lee are the only players not in that squad and I would disagree that Jarvis has been in good form not bad.

By the way Hook has been in great form this season at USAP.

If Lydiate had been fit then I do feel maybe Faletau would have been dropped, of course there is the option of Jones at No8 with Shingler at No6.

Also is it definately 23 man squads for the AIs?

Maes:

your quote:

So should Wales play those players you mention above that are under performing in your opinion or do you have better suggestions? If so, lets hear them...!

Preistland should be replaced by Dan Biggar form and he can kick, so can Hook.
Faletau should be R Jones at 8 he does not drop the ball and controls the ball at the back of the scrum and on form. J Thomas should be no where near the squad.
As Lydiate is not available I would give Shingler a go.
Tips at 7 as I have not seen Warburton have more than one decent game this season against the Dragons!
Captain R Jones.

Form can change but regardless we al know what the team will be for the big games, most deserved. We are entitled to our opinion by the way.

Samson Lee added to squad as cover for Adam Jones.

He will spend his 20th birthday training with Wales in Poland! He is clearly a great prospect but Wales desparately need a fit Adam Jones.

Hi Maesteg, I have no issue with the squad selection, apart from leaving Rhys Gill out, it's the inevitable starting 15 that will be disappointing I fear.

If only Patchell hadn't been injured so early on, he was showing pretty good attacking threat for the Blues in the first couple of games.

There is nothing new here; this squad was expected to go down under and produce the goods but failed, i would say this is a last ditch saloon for some players to prove their worth or you can expect to see some radical changes in the new year. If we do not beat Argentina, Samoa and Aus and perform v NZ then things have to change....

Higher_Ground wrote:Hi Maesteg, I have no issue with the squad selection, apart from leaving Rhys Gill out, it's the inevitable starting 15 that will be disappointing I fear.

HG,

What would your starting XV compared to what you think it will be

I see Samson Lee has been called up for the Poland training camp as cover for injured Adam Jones.
Could be a big worry as it is his same knee troubling him.

Just seen post above!

Jones will always be crucial to our cause but good for Lee and hope he gets some game time

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Higher_Ground wrote:Hi Maesteg, I have no issue with the squad selection, apart from leaving Rhys Gill out, it's the inevitable starting 15 that will be disappointing I fear.

HG,

What would your starting XV compared to what you think it will be

Hi Bedford, honestly, I'd go for the team below. For what it's worth as a humble fan, and in no way the font of all knowledge:

1. Rhys Gill - Playing in a league where the scrummage is important, alongside Smit, Britz et al. Gethin sitting on a bench.
2. Richard Hibbard - worked on his throwing, his fitness and puts himself around with purpose, not just pointless bluster.
3. Adam Jones
4. AWJ -
5. Ian Evans- This is a good partnership, and selection made easier by the fact that Bradley Davies has been below par.
6. Sam Warburton
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Ryan Jones
9. Mike Phillips - Picked on reputation as none of the others are playing well enough
10. Dan Biggar - Has to be given a fair shot at it, with a decent pack, not 10 minutes after being told he's being cut from the squad.
11. Alex Cuthbert
12. Ashley Beck
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Lee Halfpenny
15. Liam Williams

16. Ryan Bevington
17. Ken owens/Huw Bennett
18. Luke Charteris
19. Toby Faletau
20. Tavis Knoyle
21. Stephen Jones
22. Jamie Roberts
23. Scott Williams

Not sure what Ospreys are feeding Jarvis with as didn't really break through from the academy to claim a starting spot at Bath. However many were surprised when he stated he had a welsh grandmother and was going to head west, but it seems to have worked out and good luck to him. We have swapped him for James as it has turned out, who so far has been going well, although we have several significant clashes coming up.

Paul James is a decent player and would never take a backward step, he should do Bath proud.

Samson Lee called up to cover the Bear i see

Higher_Ground wrote:I'd go for the team below. For what it's worth as a humble fan, and in no way the font of all knowledge:

1. Rhys Gill - Playing in a league where the scrummage is important, alongside Smit, Britz et al. Gethin sitting on a bench.
2. Richard Hibbard - worked on his throwing, his fitness and puts himself around with purpose, not just pointless bluster.
3. Adam Jones
4. AWJ -
5. Ian Evans- This is a good partnership, and selection made easier by the fact that Bradley Davies has been below par.
6. Sam Warburton
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Ryan Jones
9. Mike Phillips - Picked on reputation as none of the others are playing well enough
10. Dan Biggar - Has to be given a fair shot at it, with a decent pack, not 10 minutes after being told he's being cut from the squad.
11. Alex Cuthbert
12. Ashley Beck
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Lee Halfpenny
15. Liam Williams

16. Ryan Bevington
17. Ken owens/Huw Bennett
18. Luke Charteris
19. Toby Faletau
20. Tavis Knoyle
21. Stephen Jones
22. Jamie Roberts
23. Scott Williams

HG, as a humble fan and in no way the font of all knowledge myself, I can't agree with that backrow. Warburton's not a blindside. if Tipuric is playing better than him as an openside, he'll have to be content with sitting on the bench (although the fact that he's been named captain tells us that Howley's going to play him come what may). I'd have either Shingler at blindside or shift Ryan Jones there and have Toby at number eight.

I'd also have JD2 and Scott Williams as my centre pairing.

I think Sam will play 6.

I agree, James has added to a stable scrum, just not an attacking scrum, at least not yet.