Liverpool FC Thread: Numero Deux

by **Crimey** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 11:01 am

First topic message reminder :

For all Liverpool's based discussion.

If you're here just to wind Liverpool fans up, don't bother posting.

by Soldier_Of_Fortune Mon 15 Apr 2013, 11:36 am

We should have finished at least one of those chances, I dont think its a coincidence that the opposing teams keeper has been the best and second best player (Collins was MOM for West Ham) on the pitch in the past 2 matches. We have looked very predictable in attack and we need to change things up.

by **Kenny** Mon 15 Apr 2013, 3:28 pm

But we dont have a plan b , this is the biggest gripe i have with Rodgers

by Guest Mon 15 Apr 2013, 3:52 pm

Kenny wrote:But we dont have a plan b , this is the biggest gripe i have with Rodgers

So what's plan B......Andy Carroll return? I don't think Rodgers wants that and all I keep hearing, as a Newcastle fan, is that you want Hatem Ben Arfa. Surely that's the last player you would need who's in the similar mould of Coutinho & Sturridge. You need a striker, proven in the EPL and who longer term could do it in Europe. Suarez, although he's scored a considerable amount of goals is not a natural finisher and neither is Sturridge by a long shot. I thought Darren Bent last summer was a must for Liverpool but I guess his price tag and age put the owners off.

by **Kenny** Mon 15 Apr 2013, 3:57 pm

Im hoping we dont get Ben Arfa from you , as much as he is a good player he seems injury prone and like you say is to similiar to what we already have .

Bent i always thought we would sign at some stage over the last 4-5 years but it never happened .

I have said before i would like either Shane Long or Gary Hooper

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 17 Apr 2013, 9:45 pm

Not really sure why Rodgers wouldn't keep Carroll.

His link up play tonight was actually very good

by **Kenny** Wed 17 Apr 2013, 10:53 pm

Olly wrote:Not really sure why Rodgers wouldn't keep Carroll.

His link up play tonight was actually very good

yes i thought he had a decent game , i think its a personal choice the Rodgers thing ........ he just doesn't rate him highly enough despite what others think

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 17 Apr 2013, 10:55 pm

From what I saw tonight, Carroll actually linked up the play very nicely with his feet as well as in the air.

Maybe Rodgers doesn't feel as if he can manage him into his system, or maybe he is just going with a Plan A and nothing else?

by **Crimey** Wed 17 Apr 2013, 11:00 pm

Rodgers does a lot of odd things. The Carroll situation is the probably the most odd.

by nasisillmatic Thu 18 Apr 2013, 9:58 am

The problem I find with Carroll is that he is a striker you need a system to play to, otherwise you won't get the best out of him.
When we went out and spent 35 million on him, we should have built the team around him, but for whatever reason we never. We only really started to see the benefits for the last 6 weeks of the season just gone.

It's quite clear with the system Rodgers plays Carroll just simply doesn't fit in. While it would be nice to have him as an alternative, we simply cannot warrant having a £35 million player as back up, we're not Chelsea.

Therefore in the interests of the club and Carroll himself, it makes sense to cut our losses and sell him to a club that will get the best out of him, and where he will start plenty of games.

by **Crimey** Thu 18 Apr 2013, 10:21 am

nasisillmatic wrote:The problem I find with Carroll is that he is a striker you need a system to play to, otherwise you won't get the best out of him.
When we went out and spent 35 million on him, we should have built the team around him, but for whatever reason we never. We only really started to see the benefits for the last 6 weeks of the season just gone.

It's quite clear with the system Rodgers plays Carroll just simply doesn't fit in. While it would be nice to have him as an alternative, we simply cannot warrant having a £35 million player as back up, we're not Chelsea.

Therefore in the interests of the club and Carroll himself, it makes sense to cut our losses and sell him to a club that will get the best out of him, and where he will start plenty of games.

But we're not going to get the £35 million back, we're going to get at most £15 million, that's a loss of £20 million and I'm sure Carroll will end up being a success as well.

We just need to forget the price tag, I wish Rodgers would at least consider it. People are too quick to dismiss that he won't fit into the system without even trying it.

by GSC Thu 18 Apr 2013, 10:47 am

Trying it, and the inevitable failure, loses Liverpool more leverage and money.

by liverbnz Thu 18 Apr 2013, 11:13 am

How do we know it's a system issue? Rodgers has diverted from his system plenty this season to accommodate Gerrard and Suarez. How do we know it's not an attitude problem?

by nasisillmatic Thu 18 Apr 2013, 11:15 am

While I would like for Rodgers to keep Carroll, I won't hold it against him if he lets him go.

The price is also a big factor whether we like it or not. We will never recoup all the money we laid out, so we cannot risk keeping him for another year and his value dropping due to poor perfomance or limited game time. I think the club would have been very pleased for him to join West Ham, as they knew they would get the best out of him so we could gain maximum sell value.

My major problem is people using the Carroll stick to beat Rodgers with. He didn't waste the money on him, Kenny did.

by liverbnz Thu 18 Apr 2013, 11:29 am

The 35m is not a factor in Liverpool selling Carroll. His book value will be the factor and by the end of the season it'll be 16m or so. Anything under that will be a loss for Liverpool and that's all they'll care about. There's was also a write-down on player book value in the last accounts so his book value may be even lower than the 16m.

by **Crimey** Thu 18 Apr 2013, 11:57 am

liverbnz wrote:How do we know it's a system issue? Rodgers has diverted from his system plenty this season to accommodate Gerrard and Suarez. How do we know it's not an attitude problem?

Carroll's attitude appears to have been first class though. When he first arrived I think he definitely had an attitude problem, he was overweight, he didn't try hard and made no effort to improve his game as well his well documented problems with drink etc.

However I think there was a clear change in attitude, and that's what made the fans actually start to like him. He got in shape, so he's built much better now than he used to be and seems to have a bit extra pace, he improved the technical side of his game a lot and seemed to have real drive to do well for the side and play well for the side.

Rodgers has said that he left because he wanted first team football though to be fair.

by liverbnz Thu 18 Apr 2013, 12:04 pm

What Rodgers says in public and what he says behind closed doors are likley different things. 'Wanting first team football' and not wanting a 35m striker on the bench seem like platitudes to me. It seems Rodgers had issues with Carroll's drinking (often found in the pub on Sundays was the quote), his attitude in training and his ability to take on new ideas.

by **Kenny** Thu 18 Apr 2013, 3:41 pm

The 35 million price tag is for me Rodgers problem with Carroll , i dont believe he feels Carroll was worth that money ( as a lot of people agree ) but Rodgers has to get over that .
Carroll didn't set the price , he cant help what we paid for him .
Rodgers needs to take a step back and look at the bigger picture and objectively look at what Carroll could offer the team .

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 18 Apr 2013, 4:34 pm

I don't see how Carroll wouldn't be of some use to Liverpool

by Duty281 Thu 18 Apr 2013, 6:01 pm

Since May last year, Carroll's form seems to be on a constant upward trend. He really is a confidence player. I think Liverpool should keep him, the season at West Ham has done him good, he's 24 now so will soon be entering the prime of his career. Gotta keep him.

by **Crimey** Thu 18 Apr 2013, 9:28 pm

Since Sturridge signed for Liverpool:

Sturridge 12 games, 6 goals, 0 assists

Carroll 8 games, 6 goals, 1 assist

by **Kenny** Fri 19 Apr 2013, 11:16 pm

Quick Question

Does anyone think Suarez will win pfa player of the year ?

I think he should , but doubt he will

by Guest Fri 19 Apr 2013, 11:56 pm

I think it's a toss up between Suarez and Bale. In no way is Van Persie player of the year and Carrick must be a late April fools..

by liverbnz Sat 20 Apr 2013, 11:05 am

Suarez has been the best player in the league but RVP has been the difference in the title and 2nd place so he should probably win it.

by mystiroakey Sun 21 Apr 2013, 6:09 pm

Suarez has just bitten some one. If he doesn't get a ten match ban minimum then I will be surprised.. The ref didn't catch it and he scores the equalising goal on 96th minute

by GSC Sun 21 Apr 2013, 6:10 pm

I just don't see him playing for Liverpool again. The precedent was set in Holland.

by mystiroakey Sun 21 Apr 2013, 6:10 pm

By the way Suarez has no chance winning the pfa player of the year anymore

by GSC Sun 21 Apr 2013, 6:13 pm

Well he lost ivanovics vote

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 21 Apr 2013, 7:23 pm

Last year = 7th with the league cup and FA cup runners up medals...

This season = 7th............................

Real improvement.

by **Crimey** Sun 21 Apr 2013, 7:28 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Last year = 7th with the league cup and FA cup runners up medals...

This season = 7th............................

Real improvement.

I've said the same thing. When I've said that I think sacking Kenny was the wrong idea, people act as if I'm stupid but there has been very little improvement footballing wise. Last year I felt that Kenny targeted the cups to boost the confidence of the squad as it was clear that the league wasn't going to go well very quickly. I understand that Kenny and Comolli overspent, but on the pitch there was improvement on Hodgson and it felt like there was a plan, and that it was only through wastefulness that we weren't higher up the pitch.

I don't buy that we're playing better football either, I felt last year we played a lot of good football but just didn't convert our chances. The same could be said of this year. People say that Kenny was giving £100 million and Rodgers wasn't, and that Rodgers would have spent it better...if Allen and Borini, his two biggest signings in the summer are anything to go buy, I doubt it.

I want Rodgers to succeed, but this year has felt just the same as the previous three, the main improvement has been having a top goalscorer again.

by Guest Sun 21 Apr 2013, 7:36 pm

We are also rans and will continue to be. 7th is about where I expected us to finish anyway so it's no surprise for me to see us where we are.

I grew up watching Liverpool challenging and winning titles year after year and I'd bet my last penny that we'll not challenge for a title in the next 10 years.

Unless some billionaire rolls up to the club we ain't going nowhere. The gap is too big. All I can hope for as a fan is a cup here and there.

by Stella Sun 21 Apr 2013, 7:42 pm

Give him a chance. Liverpool have played well this year, without getting points.

by **Crimey** Sun 21 Apr 2013, 7:46 pm

Stella wrote:Give him a chance. Liverpool have played well this year, without getting points.

Story of the season last year as well except we won one cup and nearly won another. If we haven't moved sideways, we've moved backwards.

by LivinginItaly Sun 21 Apr 2013, 7:49 pm

If suarez is found guilty then however good he might be I don't want him to play for Liverpool again.

by Guest Sun 21 Apr 2013, 7:51 pm

Crimey wrote:
Stella wrote:Give him a chance. Liverpool have played well this year, without getting points.

Story of the season last year as well except we won one cup and nearly won another. If we haven't moved sideways, we've moved backwards.

Meanwhile a labouring United side are on the verge of yet another league title. Depressing.

by Duty281 Sun 21 Apr 2013, 7:51 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Last year = 7th with the league cup and FA cup runners up medals...

This season = 7th............................

Real improvement.

The league (and Europe) is all that matters these days. I'd say Rodgers is building the team into his mould, that'll take time. I'm glad that the majority of Liverpool fans see this, as do the owners. Long-term success doesn't come in just one season.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 21 Apr 2013, 7:57 pm

You haven't got the money for long term success.........and as you're not in Europe the players to get you long term success..

Won't be interested...

by Duty281 Sun 21 Apr 2013, 7:58 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You haven't got the money for long term success.........and as you're not in Europe the players to get you long term success..

Won't be interested...

You? Tottenham have shown how it can be done, well the get into Europe part at least.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 21 Apr 2013, 8:03 pm

Not this year...........

by Duty281 Sun 21 Apr 2013, 8:07 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not this year...........

Yep this year for Spurs. Hammering the mercenaries should propel them on to the top 4 - only Chelsea stand in their way.

by **Crimey** Sun 21 Apr 2013, 8:10 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You haven't got the money for long term success.........and as you're not in Europe the players to get you long term success..

Won't be interested...

You? Tottenham have shown how it can be done, well the get into Europe part at least.

There was a lot less competition for Spurs to challenge the top four, Liverpool fell because of Hicks and Gillet with the club being a mess behind the scenes and Manchester City weren't title contenders. Spurs also spent a lot of money as well. It's much harder to challenge it now.

by Duty281 Sun 21 Apr 2013, 8:14 pm

Crimey wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You haven't got the money for long term success.........and as you're not in Europe the players to get you long term success..

Won't be interested...

You? Tottenham have shown how it can be done, well the get into Europe part at least.

There was a lot less competition for Spurs to challenge the top four, Liverpool fell because of Hicks and Gillet with the club being a mess behind the scenes and Manchester City weren't title contenders. Spurs also spent a lot of money as well. It's much harder to challenge it now.

They should do it this year though.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 21 Apr 2013, 8:21 pm

Spurs have to go to Chelsea.....Arsenal's run in is good......

City's season was over before today...you could tell against Wigan too they weren't interested.....

Winning convincingly at Old Trafford and then beating Chelsea at Wembley was sapping stuff.....

Showed a lot of heart for mercenaries in them two games.....

I for one was proud....

by Duty281 Sun 21 Apr 2013, 8:49 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Spurs have to go to Chelsea.....Arsenal's run in is good......

City's season was over before today...you could tell against Wigan too they weren't interested.....

Winning convincingly at Old Trafford and then beating Chelsea at Wembley was sapping stuff.....

Showed a lot of heart for mercenaries in them two games.....

I for one was proud....

I sincerely hope Man City don't carry your negative attitude, though if they do it would explain a lot. Chelsea have the hardest run in though for the top 4, and dropped two points today.

by JamesLincs Sun 21 Apr 2013, 9:16 pm

why on earth are we talking top4 on a liverpool page????

by lorus59 Mon 22 Apr 2013, 5:57 am

It is curious that the biggest issue today is Suarez's vampire tendencies, yet it is hardly getting a mention.

by nasisillmatic Mon 22 Apr 2013, 9:43 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Last year = 7th with the league cup and FA cup runners up medals...

This season = 7th............................

Real improvement.

Last season we finished on 52 points with just 5 home wins and 14 league defeats. This season we have 51 points with 4 games left, 8 home wins and 9 losses.

I'd say that's an improvement.

by Guest Mon 22 Apr 2013, 9:56 am

Bringing on Sturridge at half time rather than waiting until 75 mins also showed some tactical improvement from BR. Good game yesterday sadly overshadowed by Suarez's idiocy which is being further overshadowed by the hysterical over reaction from every man and his dog. How long before David Cameron offers his personal insight?

by nasisillmatic Mon 22 Apr 2013, 10:40 am

DAVE667 wrote:Bringing on Sturridge at half time rather than waiting until 75 mins also showed some tactical improvement from BR. Good game yesterday sadly overshadowed by Suarez's idiocy which is being further overshadowed by the hysterical over reaction from every man and his dog. How long before David Cameron offers his personal insight?

That's because it was the worst incident ever to happen on the pitch.

Much worse than Cantona kicking a fan, Roy Keane setting out to end a mans career, Ben Thatcher reconstructing Mendes' face, and Defoe......biting someone.

by Stella Mon 22 Apr 2013, 10:42 am

Ha, true.

No, that Thatcher smash on Mendes was effing disgraceful.

by Lumbering_Jack Mon 22 Apr 2013, 12:21 pm

I really loathe Suarez but the reaction to this is way over the top. Anything more than a 3 game ban is wrong.

What's worse, the disgraceful lunge my Mcmanaman on Hiadara of Suarez having a little nibble on Ivanovic? One is looked at a potential 10 game ban. What a joke.

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