England Team vs South Africa

15. A.Goode
14. C.Ashton
13. M.Tuilagi
12. B.Barritt
11. U.Monye*
10. T.Flood
09. B.Youngs*

08. T.Waldrom
07. C.Robshaw
06. J.Haskell*
05. G.Parling
04. J.Launchberry*
03. D.Cole
02. T.Youngs
01. A.Corbisiero*

16. D.Paice
17. M.Vunipola
18. D.Wilson
19. T.Palmer
20. T.Wood
21. D.Care
22. F.Burns*
23. J.Joseph*

I think if England are going to compete with South Africa physically, they are going to need to make a few changes in personnel. In the backs, on the left wing I would bring in Monye, Sharples has impressed me, however I believe his lack of physicality against the South Africans would get exploited, whereas Monye is capable of holding his own, whilst he is also a natural left winger. At scrum half, it's a tough call, but I'd bring in Youngs at 9, due to the Leicester 8, 9, 10 axis that works so well at club level, I really rate Danny Care, but his injection of pace and creativity from the bench would be useful towards the end of a test match. On the bench I would bring in Freddie Burns for Owen Farrell, Burns deserves a chance and I feel he could really challenge Flood for that 10 jersey. Another tough selection call would be to bring Jonathan Joseph onto the bench ahead of Mike Brown, Joseph can cover the centres and the wings, whilst Burns can cover fly half and full back.

Meanwhile in the forwards I would make three changes. I would bring in Haskell for Johnson, I think Johnson is a good player, however against South Africa we could really do with Haskell's physicality and he must be chomping at the bit to be given a run out and prove himself once again at test level. In the second rows, Launchberry has really impressed me and deserves to start, whilst at loosehead prop I feel Marler is in need of a rest, and I reckon England miss Corbisiero's dominance at scrum time.

I have a feeling there won't be much tampering with the team and have a horrible feeling the same will happen against NZ. Could mean a knackered team at the end which could end in a bit of a hammering.

I'd play:

Goode/Brown (I'd prefer Brown but settle for Goode)
Ashton
Tuilagi
Barritt
Sharples
Flood
Care (Youngs' form is still poor, I thought he had a poor game)
Morgan (though I'd settle for Waldrum)
Robshaw c.
Wood
Launchbury (is Lawes going to be back?)
Parling
Cole
Youngs
Marler or Mako. Marler was poor, no doubt, but that was against savvy not against power and SA is a different match and one Marler has already dealt with. If Corbs is fit, he plays


Vunipola, Paice, Anyone, Plamer (unless Lawes is fit), Waldrum, Dickson, Burns, Joseph

1 Marler
2 Youngs
3 Cole
4 Launchbury
5 Lawes
6 Wood
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan

9 Care
10 Flood
11 Sharples
12 Barritt
13 Tuilagi (he must get those passes away though)
14 Ashton
15 Brown / Goode

We need runners from deep though or its irrelevant who we put out....

ChequeredJersey wrote:I'd play:

Goode/Brown (I'd prefer Brown but settle for Goode)
Ashton
Tuilagi
Barritt
Sharples
Flood
Care (Youngs' form is still poor, I thought he had a poor game)
Morgan (though I'd settle for Waldrum)
Robshaw c.
Wood
Launchbury (is Lawes going to be back?)
Parling
Cole
Youngs
Marler or Mako. Marler was poor, no doubt, but that was against savvy not against power and SA is a different match and one Marler has already dealt with. If Corbs is fit, he plays


Vunipola, Paice, Anyone, Plamer (unless Lawes is fit), Waldrum, Dickson, Burns, Joseph

Would start Brown at full back. but the rest i agree with.

Well,I said I'd prefer Brown, so you agree with the whole team then!

Is Lawes set to be fit for next week? Definitely want Launchbury to start, he has shown a lot more than either Parling or Palmer. Not sure about the lineout calls if we bench both the locks who started today for Launchbury and Lawes

I want to know who Biltong would start

1. Corbs 9. Care
2. Youngs 10. Flood
3. Cole 11. Brown
4. Launchberry 12. Barritt
5. Parling 13. Tulaigi
6. Haskell 14. Ashton
7. Robshaw 15. Goode
8. Waldrom

Vunipola, Wilson, Paice, Lawes, Morgan, Youngs, Farrell, Joseph

For England to have any chance against South Africa they need to try and match the Boks physically in the contact area, by using the strength of the backrow and smartly using their impact subs and secondly; to try and counter their kicking game with Brown and Goode being tactical with their return kicks.

After watching the game today it struck me that England are not helped on the pitch by two fundamental flaws in their selection policy; firstly their insistence to pick players that are very good at club level but have never looked like they were the cut when it came to playing on the international stage. Players such as Johnson and Waldrom, I say as a Tigers supporter, are both key individuals in their respective packs, but for some reason have never looked like being able to step it up on the next stage; Waldrom being too slow and cumbersome and Johnson being too light weight are too a big a weaknesses at this level that both their exceptional work rates do not make amends for. How both are picked over already proven players at international level and also younger, Wood and Haskell with 53 caps between them, I don't understand. If Lancaster was looking for youth then surely he would pick B Vunipola or Fearns, both who could add something different.

Secondly the RFU have made clear that players playing in France will only be picked for the EPS in exceptional circumstances, although a long tiresome argument on this forum, today once again hilighted that England are at a distinct disadvantage without playing without an openside flanker and will always find it difficult to compete with the southern hemisphere without a 7 fetcher and therefore surely this is an exceptional circumstance which warranted the inclusion of Steffon Armitage even if it meant he missed the beginning of the training schedule. Although with problems Wales seem to manage to fit their French clubbed players into their plans, something England should look to do. Also with Corbs out injured and Marler looking suspect in the tight, Sheridan who starts for Toulon could have been brought in as temporary cover, despite his age could at least provide some stability in the scrum that without England look lost.

Echoed by Woodward, although England don't have many, they need to pick the players who look like they are of an international quality, wherever they are playing their rugby!

I've said before I don't think Johnson is international level, i stand by it. Waldrom is not any better than Morgan. B Vunipola is a player we need to try out sooner rather than later. Losing with him at 8 is a damn sight less depressing than Waldrom.

Sheridan is miles above Marler, who is also below Corbs when he is back and now M Vunipola i'd say. Marler's carrying game is grossly overrated.

Our second row is still mediocrity personified and there is no cutting edge at 12, sorry Sarries fans, but Barritt IS 1 dimensional.

How do they know if there going to be any good at international level without picking them in a international game. O and please, they need more than one game to see if there up to it.

I want to thank SL for releasing Ben Morgan. Hat-trick hero.

nathan wrote:How do they know if there going to be any good at international level without picking them in a international game. O and please, they need more than one game to see if there up to it.

Oh I think we often have a good idea about how good someone is.
Fruean for Cantebury is a very important player and for the Crusaders is also useful but it seems pretty clear that unless he improves heaps he's way down the pecking order.
C Smith is the incumbent and Ellison and B Smith are more likely to be given starts as useful utilities over Fruean

Fruean has heart problems and is out of the running for that reason. He cannot get himself playing at the pace the AB selectors would like.

Waldrom is way out of shape. You can't have an international back rower carrying that much surplus weight.

Should this be merged with the other near identical thread?