V2 WWC 2012 The Knockout Stages Last 8- Match 2

Yesterday's match up pitted the face of the wwe, mr five moves of doom John Cena vs one of TNA's most improved and talented performers Bully Ray, despite the voting being close all day bully eventually took the semi final spot by just three votes

Next up in the last 8 is match 2

Pease vote for the wrestler you believe has generated the best work in the last 12 months

As always leave a comment as to why you voted

The winner will progress to the semi finals

Ouch, simply ouch.
Now this is where it gets interesting!

Aries by a mile for me

punk by miles for me lol

Don't think this will be as close as yesterday's, the only person that could possibly take Punk out of this tournament is Daniel Bryan. Aries has achieved a lot this year, longest reigning x division champ, the first one to vacate the title for a WHC shot, a decent WHC reign and a headlining match at BFG, all in all a great year and if it wasn't for the luck/bad luck of the draw may have gone further. Punk is the current reigning and defending WWC champ after an amazing final last year against Kurt angle in which 70 votes were cast with only 4 separating the two at close of play, I can't look much further than punk repeating that win, he's had an amazing year: been the most entertaining, relevant, over as a face/heal that wwe have had in many years and for my money in the ring and on the mic the best in the world right now.

Don't understand how you can say Aries "by miles"

Because Gregers doesn't like CM Punk, but weirdly only suddenly professed his dislike the moment he became very popular.....hmmm...

I think it's obviously CM Punk, as good as Aries is, he's not even on the same level as Punk who has been head and shoulders above pretty much everybody in wrestling for about 18 months.

Me had to go for austin, punk has gone backwards the last 12 months.
Austin is wicked a cool dude me love to join his crew

Aries, for a number of reasons.

A: Not as many people will vote Aries because they don't watch TNA.
B: He is better on the mic and has been pivotal in TNA's success
C: He isn't a whining little bitch!

barry black wrote:Me had to go for austin, punk has gone backwards the last 12 months.
Austin is wicked a cool dude me love to join his crew

Are you rocking a rasta gimmick?

MtotheC wrote:

barry black wrote:Me had to go for austin, punk has gone backwards the last 12 months.
Austin is wicked a cool dude me love to join his crew

Are you rocking a rasta gimmick?

me thinks austin is the chesse respect to yer all. me not a gimmick me barry

Aries has been excellent this year - probably in the top three - but is unlucky with the draw. Punk by a nose.

Not a huge fan of either, but I can see a good wrestler when I see one. Both have had good years. The fact Aries works in a lesser company counts against him this time. He also only got the belt because of fan demand not because TNA were going to push him.

Punk by a fraction for me.

Austin Aries has had a stellar 2012 in TNA, he's probably been one of the top 3 wrestlers in the big leagues this year. Unfortunately for him, CM Punk is one of the guys who has been better.

Crimey wrote:Because Gregers doesn't like CM Punk, but weirdly only suddenly professed his dislike the moment he became very popular.....hmmm...

I think it's obviously CM Punk, as good as Aries is, he's not even on the same level as Punk who has been head and shoulders above pretty much everybody in wrestling for about 18 months.

I've never liked Punk that much to be honest, and only watch TNA at present. Hence it has to be Aries

AntLord wrote:Aries, for a number of reasons.

A: Not as many people will vote Aries because they don't watch TNA.
B: He is better on the mic and has been pivotal in TNA's success
C: He isn't a whining little bitch!

Agree with this

B: He is better on the mic and has been pivotal in TNA's success

Can I just ask what success? Have ratings been up? Have houses went through the roof? Have PPV Buy-rates vastly improved?

Those aren't rhetorical questions and I'm not trying to catch anyone out, but when you use quotes like "pivotal in TNA's success" then it'd be good to get some clarification

Aries better than Punk on the mic? Please.

Mr H wrote:Aries better than Punk on the mic? Please.

it's all down to preference, I assume you don't watch much TNA?

I'm sorry I haven't been able to contribute more to this competiton as I've been bogged down with uni work, but jeezo what a match up to come back to.

Firstly both these guys are very good wrestlers and very good talkers, and had this tournament been 6 months ago it would have been hard not to go for Aries, at that point he was turning heads with a series of eye-catching performances and getting his character really over with the fans to the point TNA felt compelled to hotshot the title on to him.

Punk on the other hand, while as I have stated many times, am not a hater of the Punk face turn, given that he was still head and shoulders above just about everyone else on the mic and wrestled a series of excellent PPV and TV outings against, ADR, Jericho, Miz and Bryan to name but a few, and was generally performing as well as I think anyone can in what is nowdays on of the hardest roles to perform particuarly in the eyes of adult male and internet fans who have a tendancy to lean towards villians and anti-heroes. But it has to be said that face Punk is not classic Punk, it's not game-changing Punk and from that perspective it was probably a bit flat.

But that was 6 months ago, fast forward and things are completlely different, Aries title run was IMO an unmitigated flop, sure he deserved a run with the belt but honestly I think TNA should have put more though into giving Aries the belt in the midst of long term stroylines and those about to begin instead of hotshotting him into the position. Lost in amongst the shuffle of the BFG series and the A&8's storys, he was left with no real challangers and stuck in one ludocrious situaton after the other (Mike from New York form example). As a result of all this, nothing could match his initial match with Roode, rematches were dissapointing compared to the first, Aries vs 'The Armbreaker' was a bit of a farce, hsi promos at this time lacked the his cocky luster they possessed previously and though he and Hardy delivered at BFG, the build up to the match was poor IMO, though that may be a criticism of the short time between the end of the BFG series and BFG itself if I'm honest. Anyways Aries seems to be getting back to his old self now, heel and without the belt, but it's hard to argue that TNA's 'reward' set him back a long way, especially when compared to Punk.

Punk on the other hand has had a phenomenal past few months, the guy is on top for and carrying the 3 hour Raw at the moment, week after week, after week of outstanding promos (complement by Heyman not carried IMO as I have heard some argue), and some highly enjoyable matches against Cena and Ryback, like I said before Punk wasn't a bad face but this guy was born to play the heel and he has been an absoloute force of nature since his turn.

Anyways to sum up, I like Aries, I really, really do, but it's unfortunate for him he had had such a poor few months where his career fell off a cliff and the title had done him more harm than good, it could be argued that this was more TNA's fault that his, but I can only go from what I've seen over the past 12 months and in the face of Punk's brilliance it just wasn't a drop in quality he could afford.


On an aside, Gregers, I noticed in the last 32 you had been quite verificious in your criticism of Punk, I left a reply but it was late in the day and the thread got pushed down quickly so you must have missed it, just wondering if we could start the discussion now?

Dr Gregory House MD wrote:

Gregers wrote:Storm over punk for me. Based on the last year storm has been world champion, had a stunningly good feud with Roode and had potentially the match of the year at bfg.

Punk as a face didn't work, as a heel he has needed hayman to really become interesting. I'm sorry to all the punk fanboys but its not been as monumental a year as 2011 was for punk. In fact if punk wins this whole tournament it's quite a catastrophe.

Roode
Aries
Storm
Bully Ray
Punk

That is the top five for me, in that order as well.

Couldn't disagree more Gregers, Punk's face turn was nearly as much of a blow out as you say it is, at least not IMO anyways, while I agree that he's a more natural heel, the fact he's such an outstanding heel dosn't diminsh he was more than capable of playing a top line babyface, still wrestling and talking very well. Personally I'd say the topline face is probably the most difficult role to suceed and remain popular, particuarly among the adult male audience which is a bit of a contradiction as those are the same people who are Punk's biggest fans, this for me anyway is the reason Punk's face run came off so flat. I certainally cannot find fault with any of his matches, promos or feuds. Also I can't agree with your assesment that Punk's heel turn didn't become interesting until he sided with Heyman, Punk was simmering along nicely up until that point, with one of the best slow burn heel turns WWE have done in a long time, for me Heyman has only added to the many layers of Punk's character, he's not a man who needs a manager such as Heyman and instead they have become an enjoyable double act rather than one carrying the other.

Also if you're wanting to talk about flopping babyface world title runs, may I suggest you take a look at No 2 on your list, while I'll admit TNA's booking was not in the least bit helpful, any critisims you want to throw at Punk's babyface run can equally apply to Aries and I would say that his foray with the world title has probably set him back at least 6 months.

Cheers Greg

House I'll reply this evening if thats alright? Just finished lunch break so need to do some work

Gregers wrote:House I'll reply this evening if thats alright? Just finished lunch break so need to do some work

No problem, not trying to force you into anything, your just the most critical person of Punk I've ever come across and I'm curious as to your points of view

AntLord wrote:

Mr H wrote:Aries better than Punk on the mic? Please.

it's all down to preference, I assume you don't watch much TNA?

No, but i've seen Aries cut plenty of promos. He's good, but he's no CM Punk.

Aries is good on the mic, but hes no Punk, he could not carry a show to the extent Punk has at times. Aries has also been pretty weak with his in the ring promos lately, I think hes better doing bits n skits backstage.

Aries flopped as champion, both in character and all the stories (granted those were given to him and he couldnt do too much with a lot of them). Arguably, he was given the better face role than Punk, as Punk was forced to go too babyface rather than close to the tweener role like Aries got.

However, he has become funny and interesting again more recently, hes probably one of those many who is more interesting in the chase than the victory. Pursuing the X Div title and long term goal of the Heavyweight gold will be a huge positive for TNA, and Aries is just unlucky in this that hes matched with Punk, he'd definitely have gone over Cena or Bully Ray.

I think in the case of Aries title reign it was TNA cashing in on the IWC demand for him without any real thought process of what to do with him once he got there.

Didn't get the fuss with Aries, any time I watched tna I always found the stuff going on around him more interesting than him.

Punk is going to win, he's been champ a year and now a legitimate main evented with faces getting over and big storylines developing around him.

I disagreed with him winning it last year when really he just cut 1 promo. Miz had a far better 2011.

Hero wrote:I think in the case of Aries title reign it was TNA cashing in on the IWC demand for him without any real thought process of what to do with him once he got there.

Totally agree Hero. To me it has always felt like Austin Aries' ascension to the World title was TNA's response to the prominent positions of CM Punk and Daniel Bryan in WWE at the time. Whilst Aries was deserving of a shot at main eventing, I thought it was all a bit rushed to make him World champion as soon as they did after he dropped the X-Division title, sort of like they were saying "Hey look everybody! We've got an indie guy as World champion too!"

I agree with that, Aries was bubbling along nicely as X-Division champion and being made to look good in the mid-card, the world title scene was fine with Bobby Roode and then probably James Storm to get revenge. Instead they pushed Aries too quickly in response to his growing fan-base and in my opinion messed up not only Aries who's title run essentially flopped (albeit with some good matches involved) and Roode/Storm's story, which while alright could have been much better.

I think CM Punk elevates those around him, Cena, Del Rio, Bryan even Ryback are all better when facing Punk. For me that is the skill that is hardest to achieve in wrestling, it's what separates the likes of Shawn Michaels from the likes of Chris Jericho.

Gregers wrote:

AntLord wrote:Aries, for a number of reasons.

A: Not as many people will vote Aries because they don't watch TNA.
B: He is better on the mic and has been pivotal in TNA's success
C: He isn't a whining little bitch!

Agree with this

Pivotal to their success? Didn't he take the title off Bobby Roode thus spoiling the year long Roode/Storm build? Wasn't BfG worse as a result of Aries/Hardy being for the title as opposed to Roode/Storm?

Roode/Storm didnt really need the title, although it would have been alot more epic if it was a title match.

That said, you cant blame Aries for it. He was so hot they HAD to put the title on him.

Punk for me. Had one of the best years of his career, and been WWE Champion for 380 days straight. Says it all really

I disagreed with him winning it last year when really he just cut 1 promo. Miz had a far better 2011.

Got to disagree with this, Punk was saddled with keeping Nexus relevent and just about managed it, he had a potential feud of the year with Randy Orton and they stole the show at WrestleMania while also having a very good Chamber and a good Rumble, he then had "that Promo" and then had the storyline of the year and won the World Title in the match of the year with Cena at MitB, he had a good match with Triple H before winning the title for a second time at Survivor Series and another great showing at the Survivor Series.

Miz on the other hand had a good Rumble match with Orton, a forgetable feud with Jerry Lawler and was the only World Champion in WrestleMania history who was an afterthought to Cena/Rock, after he jobbed through the spring to Cena he lost most of his heat, he's been treading water ever since

AntLord wrote:Aries, for a number of reasons.

A: Not as many people will vote Aries because they don't watch TNA.

Great reason for voting