South Africa vs New Zealand series 2012/13

First topic message reminder :

NZ are touring South Africa in December and January, playing 3 T20 internationals, 2 tests and 3 ODIs. Just setting up this thread up as a placeholder.

South Africa are on a high following their wins away in England and Australia, while NZ should also be on a high coming off a drawn series in Sri Lanka with a big win in the second test. Things are definitely not looking good for the Black Caps however. Veteran left armer Dan Vettori has been ruled out, while star batsman Ross Taylor may also miss the series due to coach Mike Hesson's efforts to remove him from the captaincy:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8036042/Ross-Taylor-keen-to-stay-on-as-captain
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8041737/Taylor-could-pull-out-of-South-Africa-tour
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8030383/Coach-Hesson-asked-Ross-Taylor-to-resign


As per usual NZ Cricket are reinforcing their status as an amateur and incompetent governing body

NZ squads: http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-new-zealand-2012/content/current/story/595709.html
Test squad Brendon McCullum (capt), Martin Guptill, Kane Williamson, Peter Fulton, Daniel Flynn, Dean Brownlie, BJ Watling (wk), James Franklin, Tim Southee, Doug Bracewell, Neil Wagner, Trent Boult, Jeetan Patel, Bruce Martin, Chris Martin.

Twenty20 squad Brendon McCullum (capt, wk), Martin Guptill, Rob Nicol, Peter Fulton, Colin Munro, Nathan McCullum, Corey Anderson, James Franklin, Jimmy Neesham, Derek de Boorder (wk), Mitchell McClenaghan, Doug Bracewell, Trent Boult, Ronnie Hira, Adam Milne (Mark Gillespie (Michael Bates)).

Watling is a better bet with the bat in my view than Ronchi is.

msp83 wrote:Watling is a better bet with the bat in my view than Ronchi is.

At test level yes. Ronchi in limited overs is another story - but McCullum is keen to retain the short-form gloves

msp83 wrote:Watling is a better bet with the bat in my view than Ronchi is.

Don't know to much about Watling to be honest, but Ronchi is a very good attacking type of batsman, so if NZ want a Kevin Pietersen type of player who can score quickly in the middle order, then Ronchi is that man. Looking at the cricinfo.com stats of these 2 players, Ronchi has a higher batting average of 36 compared to Watling's 34, Ronchi also has a strike rate of 81 compared to Watling's 40 (this 81 strike rate is higher than Pietersen's 62 strike rate in tests), and Ronchi also has a higher number of catches & stumpings of 248 and 11 compared to Watling's 79 catches and 0 stumpings.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

msp83 wrote:Watling is a better bet with the bat in my view than Ronchi is.

At test level yes. Ronchi in limited overs is another story - but McCullum is keen to retain the short-form gloves

Well you can't say for certain that Watling is a better than Ronchi at test level, as Ronchi has yet to play at a test match level.

Come on Kiwis tire the Frak out - pakistan is playing em next

fafs average is reaching ludicrous proportions again now...this side is a batting machine

Another ton for Amla, and again he was dropped. Wonder if fielders lose the ball in the beard!

Amla gone nnow, Bault the man for NZ. Hashim gone for 110. Faf is batting on 76. SA 336-5.
An opportunity as well as a test for Elgar.

Wagner bowling to Elgar. Plenty of scope there for the commentators....

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Wagner bowling to Elgar. Plenty of scope there for the commentators....

Great combination ! Would have appealed to Neville Cardus...

south africa continiuing to dominate the series!

Next up for the saffers is a home series against Pakistan...should provide a much stiffer challenege!

South Africa go into lunch at 390-5. Dean Elgar is playing his first decent test innings, not out on 31.
But the player of the session has been Faf du Plessis. He's not out on 99. Faf had the strike for the last over before lunch. Colin Munro didn't offer any easy scoring opportunities and du Plessis didn't try creating one to go to his ton. What a temprament!.

Faf continues to make hay at Test level.

2nd hundred brought up with a 6! Faf is fast becoming one of the key men in the side.

Elgar seems to be growing in confidence, playing the off spinner well.

Gerry SA wrote:Faf continues to make hay at Test level.

2nd hundred brought up with a 6! Faf is fast becoming one of the key men in the side.

Elgar seems to be growing in confidence, playing the off spinner well.

So it looks like South Africa have got a Kevin Pietersen type batsman in their test team at last in Francois Du Plessis who currently averages a mindboggling 130 odd! Apparently he could have tried and qualified to play for England I believe a couple of seasons back but obviously now he has decided that South Africa is the team he wants to play for.

"Apparently he could have tried and qualified to play for England I believe a couple of seasons back but obviously now he has decided that South Africa is the team he wants to play for."

naughty south africa- stealing our players!!

When will it end... jeas

mystiroakey wrote:"Apparently he could have tried and qualified to play for England I believe a couple of seasons back but obviously now he has decided that South Africa is the team he wants to play for."

naughty south africa- stealing our players!!

When will it end... jeas

England could have had a truely awesome batting unit by using 2 Saffas in the middle order with Pietersen at 4 and du Plessis at 6, just like was the case in the late 80's to early 90's when Allan Lamb and Robin Smith did their best to help prop up England's then fragile batting lineup.

mystiroakey wrote:"Apparently he could have tried and qualified to play for England I believe a couple of seasons back but obviously now he has decided that South Africa is the team he wants to play for."

naughty south africa- stealing our players!!

When will it end... jeas

gboycottnut wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:Faf continues to make hay at Test level.

2nd hundred brought up with a 6! Faf is fast becoming one of the key men in the side.

Elgar seems to be growing in confidence, playing the off spinner well.

So it looks like South Africa have got a Kevin Pietersen type batsman in their test team at last in Francois Du Plessis who currently averages a mindboggling 130 odd! Apparently he could have tried and qualified to play for England I believe a couple of seasons back but obviously now he has decided that South Africa is the team he wants to play for.

Faf moved to England as he wasn't seen as a regular for the Titans 4 day squad. He played the odd game here and there. He was way down the pecking down.

Lancashire offered him the chance to play on their 4 day side, it was a opportunity too good to turn down for Faf.

Soon after, Titans had a change in management and the new coaching staff wanted Faf back.

It was logical for Faf to go back to the Titans, he is after all South African.

gboycottnut wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"Apparently he could have tried and qualified to play for England I believe a couple of seasons back but obviously now he has decided that South Africa is the team he wants to play for."

naughty south africa- stealing our players!!

When will it end... jeas

England could have had a truely awesome batting unit by using 2 Saffas in the middle order with Pietersen at 4 and du Plessis at 6, just like was the case in the late 80's to early 90's when Allan Lamb and Robin Smith did their best to help prop up England's then fragile batting lineup.

Mr Boycott don't be greedy you've got Pietersen and Trott!

452 - 5 at drinks. Looking like an innings defeat....

But SA better make the most of their temporary ascendancy. As Mr Wagner would remind them - everything goes in cycles...

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:452 - 5 at drinks. Looking like an innings defeat....

But SA better make the most of their temporary ascendancy. As Mr Wagner would remind them - everything goes in cycles...

Fortunately some cycles last longer than others.

Biltong wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"Apparently he could have tried and qualified to play for England I believe a couple of seasons back but obviously now he has decided that South Africa is the team he wants to play for."

naughty south africa- stealing our players!!

When will it end... jeas

Ermm not sure if sorry is gonna cut it. We havent had a decent import for a long time..

mystiroakey wrote:

Biltong wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"Apparently he could have tried and qualified to play for England I believe a couple of seasons back but obviously now he has decided that South Africa is the team he wants to play for."

naughty south africa- stealing our players!!

When will it end... jeas

Ermm not sure if sorry is gonna cut it. We havent had a decent import for a long time..

Well you gotta learn to share, it is NZ's turn now.

Now we have Sir Adrian bowling to Elgar.

Gerry SA wrote:

gboycottnut wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"Apparently he could have tried and qualified to play for England I believe a couple of seasons back but obviously now he has decided that South Africa is the team he wants to play for."

naughty south africa- stealing our players!!

When will it end... jeas

England could have had a truely awesome batting unit by using 2 Saffas in the middle order with Pietersen at 4 and du Plessis at 6, just like was the case in the late 80's to early 90's when Allan Lamb and Robin Smith did their best to help prop up England's then fragile batting lineup.

Mr Boycott don't be greedy you've got Pietersen and Trott!

I meant batsmen who are excellent at taking on bowlers with attacking and at times outrageous flashy shots, which is what Pietersen has the ability to do and it seems Francois Du Plessis also the same ability. Trott however is more of a slow scoring, grinder type of a batsman and nothing more than that. So therefore given a choice of choosing 2 batsmen out of Pietersen,Du Plessis and Trott to play for England, I would rather have Pietersen and Du Plessis rather than Trott and Pietersen or Trott and Du Plessis.

8/2 now. Here we go again .

However the rest of the world should thank us, we've gifted Dean Elgar an extended run in the SA side

This test series looks like a men V boys game, with the best example being Steyn's nasty short pitched deliveries hitting the young NZ batsman Kane Williamson all over his body to the extent that he can't handle it resulting in his quick dismissal.

New Zealand haven't lost a wicket for 7 overs now!. There are another 11 overs left in the day's play. McCullum and Brownlie should see them through without any further damage.

Kleinweldt has been bowling some real good balls, one of those absolute brutes accounts for Brownlie. NZ 27-3.

msp83 wrote:Kleinweldt has been bowling some real good balls, one of those absolute brutes accounts for Brownlie. NZ 27-3.

NZ fans should just forget and never mind about what happens in this test series V SA as their best players aren't playing/available. They should just concentrate on the upcoming test series V England in March when these best players (Ross Taylor, Jesse Ryder, Daniel Vettori, Tim Southee) will likely return to strengthen the NZ team, with the selectors also being able to select more Aussies like Matthew Sinclair and Luke Ronchi to help Dean Brownlie in his desperate quest in strengthening the team's middle order.

Now a review against McCullum, but he is safe, but not by much. He played no shot to an incoming ball from Morkel, Dharmasena gave it not out, but SA reviewed, and Brendon just gets away with it, ball just missing the stumps.
Another review, this time from Flynn who's given out to Kleinweldt. and no luck for Flynn, he has to go, 4 for 27.

msp83 wrote:Now a review against McCullum, but he is safe, but not by much. He played no shot to an incoming ball from Morkel, Dharmasena gave it not out, but SA reviewed, and Brendon just gets away with it, ball just missing the stumps.
Another review, this time from Flynn who's given out to Kleinweldt. and no luck for Flynn, he has to go, 4 for 27.

At least NZ fans can comfort themselves from the fact that they is no way their team can get themselves into such a desparate batting position when they play against England in March.

Are Rory Kleinveldt and Dean Elgar coming off age as test cricketers?

msp83 wrote:Are Rory Kleinveldt and Dean Elgar coming off age as test cricketers?

Still not entirely convinced that they are, as they are just simply filling their boots against a very poor quality opposition side. If they were playing against Australia or Pakistan I dont think Elgar would have got that century today, and there is no way in the world would a team like Pakistan or Australia fall 4 wickets down for 28 odd runs in a single session of play after Tea Time.

Elgar was in the SA U19 in 2006, Kleinveldt as well, can't remember what year.

Robin Petersen gets McCullum, NZ continue to slip.

Monroe gone next ball.

You got to feel for these guys, it isn't going well for them.

Biltong wrote:Monroe gone next ball.

You got to feel for these guys, it isn't going well for them.

NZ should just throw in the towel now to allow a better team like Australia play against this SA team.

Colin Munro has a goldan duck on Debut, a double wicket maiden for Robin Petersen. He nearly had his 3rd as well, a perfect ball doing everything other than taking the edge!.
NZ are only 39-, 6 runs away from the benchmark 45 with 4 wickets remaining.
And pretty ruthless from Smith, he brings Steyn back on.

msp83 wrote:Colin Munro has a goldan duck on Debut, a double wicket maiden for Robin Petersen. He nearly had his 3rd as well, a perfect ball doing everything other than taking the edge!.
NZ are only 39-, 6 runs away from the benchmark 45 with 4 wickets remaining.
And pretty ruthless from Smith, he brings Steyn back on.

Smith is a schoolboy bully isn't he!

Last over of the day coming up, Robin Petersen with the ball. Can he knock another one over today?

They have time for 1 more, and its Steyn. I really like this approach from SA, not letting up on the pressure.

Watling cuts Steyn away for 4, and NZ go pass 45!.

msp83 wrote:Last over of the day coming up, Robin Petersen with the ball. Can he knock another one over today?

I just don't have the words left to express my disappointment. Over the years as an NZ fan there have been plenty of bad times, which made the good ones all the sweeter. Now I'm on the verge of just turning my back and walking away.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

msp83 wrote:Last over of the day coming up, Robin Petersen with the ball. Can he knock another one over today?

I just don't have the words left to express my disappointment. Over the years as an NZ fan there have been plenty of bad times, which made the good ones all the sweeter. Now I'm on the verge of just turning my back and walking away.

Dont be discouraged my friend, it will work out in the end - its all the meat the south africans eat - they are just trying to get their 5 a day. Proper Health nuts.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

msp83 wrote:Last over of the day coming up, Robin Petersen with the ball. Can he knock another one over today?

I just don't have the words left to express my disappointment. Over the years as an NZ fan there have been plenty of bad times, which made the good ones all the sweeter. Now I'm on the verge of just turning my back and walking away.

Don't get too downhearted, as I have said above in this thread, this test series was always likely to be a men V boys game due to NZ missing their top players. When England tour NZ in March, I expect NZ to put out their strongest XI which means their top players (Ross Taylor, Jesse Ryder, Tim Southee), plus also 2 more Aussies in Matthew Sinclair and the exciting attacking wicketkeeper batsman Luke Ronchi to help out fellow Aussie Dean Brownlie in the middle order.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
I just don't have the words left to express my disappointment. Over the years as an NZ fan there have been plenty of bad times, which made the good ones all the sweeter. Now I'm on the verge of just turning my back and walking away.

Pete - sounds like how West Ham United supporters often feel. But somehow (unlike many Chelski supporters) you know you have to stick with them no matter how bad things get.....

Its a very tough time for NZ cricket. There is hope - Taylor when playing, Williamson, a very decent collective of young bowlers.

But realistically there are all sorts of issues: lack of interest in the team, political problems with the board and between coach and players, the lure of the IPL (which is greater for NZ players because I think they feel a bit unloved (and perhaps somewhat underpaid) with the Black Caps), lack of depth/ quality/ experience.

As I've said before I think they need to try to make progress from a very base level, in the way that West Indies have started to do in the last couple of years. Admittedly NZ don't have players of the calibre of Gayle or experience of Chanderpaul to back things up, but they can learn from WI that team unity and determination can do a lot to turn things around. The WI process is still at an early stage, but the way they fought v Australia and England, and then they way they thrashed NZ showed that the team was on an upward curve for the first time in many years. All that NZ can ask for is to find an upward curve - to get better rather than worse. If they do that, results might just surprise them a bit.

Shelsey93 wrote:Its a very tough time for NZ cricket. There is hope - Taylor when playing, Williamson, a very decent collective of young bowlers.

But realistically there are all sorts of issues: lack of interest in the team, political problems with the board and between coach and players, the lure of the IPL (which is greater for NZ players because I think they feel a bit unloved (and perhaps somewhat underpaid) with the Black Caps), lack of depth/ quality/ experience.

As I've said before I think they need to try to make progress from a very base level, in the way that West Indies have started to do in the last couple of years. Admittedly NZ don't have players of the calibre of Gayle or experience of Chanderpaul to back things up, but they can learn from WI that team unity and determination can do a lot to turn things around. The WI process is still at an early stage, but the way they fought v Australia and England, and then they way they thrashed NZ showed that the team was on an upward curve for the first time in many years. All that NZ can ask for is to find an upward curve - to get better rather than worse. If they do that, results might just surprise them a bit.

There is great hope for NZ, as a couple of their best players aren't currently playing these test matches. Ross Taylor will be back for the England series, as will likely be Daniel Vettori and Jesse Ryder. Also 2 Aussie born players in Matthew Sinclair and the newly qualified Western Australian Luke Ronchi can be brought in to strengthen the NZ middle order.