Weekend citings

First topic message reminder :

During the Treviso-Leicester game, Alain Rolland, the ref I have frequently criticised of a showboater who makes important, controversial decisions to puff up his inflated ego, awarded a penalty try from twelve metres out.

Quite rightly too. Salvi's cynical entry was one of the most blatant pieces of cheating you could witness on a rugby pitch
However as well as a PT, Rolland should have issued Salvi a yellow card.

And in my opinion, such acts of gross cynicism should merit a ban from the citing commissioners under (in this case law 11 http://www.irblaws.com/downloads/EN/Law_11_EN.pdf)

Well if you can't see that he never touches the guys face then there's no point continuing the conversation as we have a fundamental disagreement on the makeup of the human body.

We'll agree to disagree. Methinks you're a tad biased though.

You have to laugh like, don't you?

Of course I'm biased but we're not talking about some borderline offside at the ruck decision here.SoB either hit the guys face or not and in that clip the first contact is with the shoulder and he knocks the guy over.

He doesn't touch the guys face and I honestly can't see how you can claim he does.

I guess you can see what you want to see.

Fair enough. There's not really a lot more to discuss.

Kudos for admitting you're biased though

Yeah exactly you see what you want,I guess the fact he wasn't cited means I'm more likely to be right though.

We all know how messed up and inconsistent the citing process is though, don't we!

Yep that's why I said it means I'm more likely to be right instead of flat out saying it 100% proves it.

SOB = thuggish act = should have been cited
Leinster - lucky to get away with LBP - outplayed completely by CA
oops - IMHO of course

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Post 2162 in this thread shows it clearly is a shoulder high tackle and never touches his face

How was Sivivatu knocked unconscious then? Is his brain in his shoulder?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Post 2162 in this thread shows it clearly is a shoulder high tackle and never touches his face

How was Sivivatu knocked unconscious then? Is his brain in his shoulder?

I don't know but it wasn't because SOB hit him in the head,use your eyes and look at the video he never comes close to his head.

Must have fainted then. How unfortunate.

How about you show me a picture where SoB hit him in the head,I bet you can't do it.

asoreleftshoulder wrote: he never comes close to his head.

You're not watching the first video on Munster's site correctly then.

He goes in at shoulder and slips up to Sivivatu's jaw. Hence why Sivivatu was unconscious.

Dangerous foul play. From behind. Desevred a red card and 4 weeks. But just like alst time he lashed out, he gets away with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zI1M0EeIgdg#!

Disgraceful decision not to cite. But it's an Irish team so unexpected I suppose.

Oh come off it - that hit on Nyanga is a yellow at most.

The High tackle is no red card either. again its a foul, maybe a yellow, no red.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote: he never comes close to his head.

You're not watching the first video on Munster's site correctly then.

He goes in at shoulder and slips up to Sivivatu's jaw. Hence why Sivivatu was unconscious.

Dangerous foul play. From behind. Desevred a red card and 4 weeks. But just like alst time he lashed out, he gets away with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zI1M0EeIgdg#!

Disgraceful decision not to cite. But it's an Irish team so unexpected I suppose.

Lol where's your tinfoil hat,that last comment shows where you're coming from so I'll leave it at that.

Anyway like I said you can't show me where he hit his face cos the pictures don't exist (and it's not because the government destroyed the tapes to help Irish rugby teams)

asoreleftshouldrer - sorry squire but his arm clearly comes up and hits under the jaw hence the knockout. I'll grab a still and show you

That's a picture of a guy performing a dirt cheap shot from behind on a players jaw.

The fact he was knocked out and you still refuse to accept it even touched Sivivatu's head just goes to show how one eyed you are

I think the sore left shoulder is evidence he hit something solid but its sivavtus own fault for having his jaw on the back of his head.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

That's a picture of a guy performing a dirt cheap shot from behind on a players jaw.

The fact he was knocked out and you still refuse to accept it even touched Sivivatu's head just goes to show how one eyed you are

No that's a picture of SoB hitting him on the shoulder,if you showed that pick from the opposite angle you would see that.The most compelling evidence I have is that if you watch his head in the video it doesn't move until his body falls,if he had been hit in the head it would be the first part of his body to move instead of the last.

[sigh]

Ok - its not hugely clear but the forearm is coming up under the chin in an uppercaut type way.


Edit - Pete C - pic is copywrite protected so won't display embedded - see http://www.flickr.com/photos/25846484@N04/8284430898/

TJ wrote:asoreleftshouldrer - sorry squire but his arm clearly comes up and hits under the jaw hence the knockout. I'll grab a still and show you

Please do,I'd love to see a few frozen frames of the action and you could see then that his head only moves after his body starts to fall.

TJ wrote:Ok - its not hugely clear but the forearm is coming up under the chin in an uppercaut type way.


Edit - Pete C - pic is copywrite protected so won't display embedded - see http://www.flickr.com/photos/25846484@N04/8284430898/

Interesting - its not protected as I understand it and I used the link provided by flickr. I'll try another way using the code they provide to embed

Spoiler:

1st contact is definitely the shoulder. But the arm swinging around looks to me like contact with the neck/face.

It's not Andrew Hore level though (that was further from the ball, and contact was directly to the chin, before the head on knee contact during the fall knocked out Davies).

Probably should have been red, just - early + high

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

It's not Andrew Hore level though that was further from the ball, and contact was directly to the chin,

Even though the judiciary panel said Hore hadn't intentionally gone for the head.

These citings and non citings are joke enough. Add in the panel's random sentences and reductions and it makes the sport at the very highest level a complete mess.

TJ wrote:

TJ wrote:Ok - its not hugely clear but the forearm is coming up under the chin in an uppercaut type way.


Edit - Pete C - pic is copywrite protected so won't display embedded - see http://www.flickr.com/photos/25846484@N04/8284430898/

Interesting - its not protected as I understand it and I used the link provided by flickr. I'll try another way using the code they provide to embed

Spoiler:

Is that flying white thing the ball or his gumshield hurtling towards the camera?

Chunky Norwich wrote:No citing for this. A deliberate high shot to the head from behind. Rugby is so corrupt these days it's untrue

Spoiler:

Has he not been cited? I'd have assumed a 2 week ban minimum.

Of course not he only hit the guy in the shoulder.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote: he never comes close to his head.

You're not watching the first video on Munster's site correctly then.

He goes in at shoulder and slips up to Sivivatu's jaw. Hence why Sivivatu was unconscious.

Dangerous foul play. From behind. Desevred a red card and 4 weeks. But just like alst time he lashed out, he gets away with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zI1M0EeIgdg#!

Disgraceful decision not to cite. But it's an Irish team so unexpected I suppose.

Was he unconscious? Did he go off? Even for head injury assessment?

tatterd wrote:SOB = thuggish act = should have been cited
Leinster - lucky to get away with LBP - outplayed completely by CA
oops - IMHO of course

It will be interesting to see who stops the ASM juggernaut this year.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Of course not he only hit the guy in the shoulder.

But the player didn't have the ball and it was high, the photo and video clearly show it being shoulder/neck/chin height. So to me that is pretty citeable.

Let's just say it's lucky Dylan Hartley didn't do it. He'd get out of jail just before he retired.

I don't really see how anyone can claim the SOB video doesn't show a shot to the jaw. Practically a wrestling "clothesline". Either way it's off the ball, which is pretty disgraceful anyway. Actually looks worse every time I see it again

ChequeredJersey wrote:I don't really see how anyone can claim the SOB video doesn't show a shot to the jaw. Practically a wrestling "clothesline". Either way it's off the ball, which is pretty disgraceful anyway. Actually looks worse every time I see it again

Weird I don't see how anyone can claim the SOB video does show a shot to the jaw,I downloaded the vid and watched on windows media player in slow motion and you can see very clearly when the initial hit goes in SOB's arm is chest high.Sivivatu then starts to fall and that is the only reason his head ends up at the same height as SOB's arm but even at that SOB's arm doesn't touch his face.Watching Sivivatus head you can see that it doesn't move except to follow his body in the fall whereas if he had been hit in the head it would have snapped away from SOB.

Does it really matter if it was head high or not even if it wasn't and that is dubious it was completely off the ball which is still wrong because a player cannot protect himself.

Well it was late but if the guy had caught the ball he still wouldn't be able to protect himself as O'Brien came from behind him.A yellow card was absolutely merited but no way was it anything more.

Sivivatu is back on his wing less than 60 seconds after the incident. ASM had a pen so there was no need for the medics to hurry but yet he was absolutely fine less than 60 seconds after the early tackle.

I don't see any evidence that he was KO'd. In fact, if he was, the ref and the ASM medical staff should be in trouble.

Well Chunky seems to have a problem with Irish teams so it's not surprising that he's making stuff up.

Any word on whether or not the Castres player who went for Moray
Low's ear with his boot has been cited? When I last checked there was nothing about it on the BBC website

Yeah he was cited it on the erc website and rightly so that was pretty disgusting

Too darned right, Neil.
I don't want to see any of the "low entry point offence" guff with time off for previous good behaviour when it comes to handing out his ban. It was worse then the Kiwi tap-dance on Kelly Brown - relatively speaking, there was a good bit less in force used there than in the one by the Castres player

No-one likes to see that in rugby and the entry point is certainly no reason to do it so yes I do hope they throw the book at him.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Well it was late but if the guy had caught the ball he still wouldn't be able to protect himself as O'Brien came from behind him.A yellow card was absolutely merited but no way was it anything more.

It was early not late...

ChequeredJersey wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Well it was late but if the guy had caught the ball he still wouldn't be able to protect himself as O'Brien came from behind him.A yellow card was absolutely merited but no way was it anything more.

It was early not late...

Yep sorry don't know why I typed that

We'll have to agree to disagree but from where I can see, and I have no particular dislike of SOB, Leinster or Irish rugby and no goodwill to an ASM side that scare the hell of me in case we have to play them and the standard English love of the underdog and mild dislike of the French as a generality, that early tackle is across Sivivatu's throat at the lowest if not jaw and is either a hook being thrown or a high tackle choking him. I'd think SOB should be further cited, but Barnes has a much better view than me so I suppose it comes down to trusting his judgement

ChequeredJersey wrote:We'll have to agree to disagree but from where I can see, and I have no particular dislike of SOB, Leinster or Irish rugby and no goodwill to an ASM side that scare the hell of me in case we have to play them and the standard English love of the underdog and mild dislike of the French as a generality, that early tackle is across Sivivatu's throat at the lowest if not jaw and is either a hook being thrown or a high tackle choking him. I'd think SOB should be further cited, but Barnes has a much better view than me so I suppose it comes down to trusting his judgement

Just don't ask me to trust Barnes' judgement

ChequeredJersey wrote:We'll have to agree to disagree but from where I can see, and I have no particular dislike of SOB, Leinster or Irish rugby and no goodwill to an ASM side that scare the hell of me in case we have to play them and the standard English love of the underdog and mild dislike of the French as a generality, that early tackle is across Sivivatu's throat at the lowest if not jaw and is either a hook being thrown or a high tackle choking him. I'd think SOB should be further cited, but Barnes has a much better view than me so I suppose it comes down to trusting his judgement

+1

I have no ill will towards SOB or Ireland and a lot of respect for both, but i'm still surprised he hasn't been cited. I do also think if the players had been the other way round and it was a British Isles or Irish player then we'd be hearing a lot more about it too.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:We'll have to agree to disagree but from where I can see, and I have no particular dislike of SOB, Leinster or Irish rugby and no goodwill to an ASM side that scare the hell of me in case we have to play them and the standard English love of the underdog and mild dislike of the French as a generality, that early tackle is across Sivivatu's throat at the lowest if not jaw and is either a hook being thrown or a high tackle choking him. I'd think SOB should be further cited, but Barnes has a much better view than me so I suppose it comes down to trusting his judgement

Just don't ask me to trust Barnes' judgement

I second that