The rumour mill

First topic message reminder :

Whilst unofficial negotiations will have been taking place for some time, it is only a few weeks until official approaches can be made and so the rumour mill is in full swing. Whilst ignoring what your mate's cousin's goldfish heard, what are the rumours you've heard coming and going from your club?


Rumours so far...
Geoff Parling to Glaws staying at Tigers
Matt Garvey to Quins, Saints, Glaws & Bath...
Nick Kennedy to everyone
Dave Attwood to Glaws
Sean Cronin to Connacht
Jonathan Joseph to Bath - confirmed
Matthew Rees to Cardiff confirmed
Stephen Shingler to a Welsh club confirmed to Scarlets
Adam Warren to Glaws and Cardiff
Kahn Fotuali'I to Toulouse - leaving but to Saints
Matt Kvesic to Tigers, Glaws, Saints and Sarries - confirmed to Glaws
Castro, John Smit and Claasens to Toulon - Castro & Claasens confirmed to Toulon
Alex Corbisiero to Saints confirmed
James Johnston to numerous French clubs & Sarries - confirmed to Sarries
Anthony Watson to Tigers & Bath
Tiny to Racing Metro
Sailosi Tagicakibau to Toulon
Toby Faletau to Bath
Billy Vunipola to Sarries - confirmed
Rhys Gill, Martin Roberts, Eiffion Lewis-Roberts, Gareth Delve, Dwayne Peel to Cardiff
Chris Cochrane to Connacht
Fionn Carr to Connacht confirmed
Newcastle starting XV to Tigers
George Ford to Saints or Bath confirmed he's leaving, but to who...
Stephen Donald to anyone who'll have him
Jonny Sexton to Racing confirmed he's leaving...
PDJ to Quins & Wasps - confirmed to Quins
BJ Botha to Toulon
Mike Ross to Munster signed a new contract
Richie Gray, Rob Miller & Kearnan Myall to Glaws - [b]Gray confirmed to Castres, Myall confirmed to Wasps, Miller staying at Sale (TRP not very accurate with these ones!!)
Stephen Myler to Tigers - staying at Saints
Matt Mulan to Wasps - confirmed
Ryan Lamb to France, Exeter or Wuss
Andy Saull to Exeter or Newcastle
James Scaysbrook to Tigers - staying at Exeter
Tom Johnson to Bath - re-signed with Exeter (how many Bath rumours are actually ever true??)
Mickey Young, Kieran Brookes to Bath - Brookes gone back to Newcastle on loan
Dan Carter, SBW, Dusatoir, McCaw to Sarries & under the salary cap too...
Gareth Maule to London Irish
Andy Goode to Newcastle, Dragons, Saints or KFC. - confirmed to Wasps
Steffan Jones to Wasps or London Welsh
Nick Robinson to Worcester or Dragons - going to Bristol
Joe Carlisle to Wasps - confirmed
James Hudson to Glaws - confirmed
Ian Nagle to Glaws
David Mele & Joel Kefi to Tigers
Sione Timani to Bath
Adam Ashley-Cooper to Leinster
Isa Nacewa to...

Is Brian Smith that dull as to say something like that?

I remember him joining us and at the time said that his intention was to play for Ireland which after joining us he did. Are we to believe that he chose us because of the excellent Curry houses and fine walks around Bradgate?

After his short spell with us and several caps for Ireland he buggered off back to Aussie league completing his very own "short cut to success" in Union.

VictorU3 wrote:You're on

Sorry Victor, I missed your reply. Good man and in the season of goodwill the best to you and yours.

Castro looks to be heading to Toulon along with Smit and Habana.

Tigers are rumoured to have taken some compensation in the deal, moving Cole to the marquee option and using the freed up funds for recruitment. Bold move by Tigers. Cole, Balmain, Brookes and Bower are all on the books but are all under 25 and aren't big on AP level experience. Mulipola can also play tighthead but is 24ish and not the most technical option.

It could well see Tigers being more pro active in keeping their other out of contract players (Parling and Ford are still yet to sign along with Morris) with targets such as Kvesic and Anthony Watson rumoured to be high on the agenda. Be interesting to see if they look to another hooker or promote Stevens from within with Chuter set to join Murphy in retirement.

Rumour circulating about the Blues "big name" signing so far.

Matthew Rees (Scarlets)
Rhys Gill (Saracens)
Gethin Jenkins (Toulon) - now unlikely
Adam Warren (Scarlets)
Dan Lydiate (Dragons)


I'm hoping to also see these rumours

Martin Roberts (Northampton) - possible
Eiffion Lewis-Roberts (Sale) - possible
Gareth Delve (Melbourne Rebels) - unlikely
Dwayne Peel (Sale) - possible

Chris Cochrane from Ulster to Connacht I've seen being bandied around.

Ulster have agreed to resign Johann Muller for an additional year but the IRFU need to approve before it can be made official. God hopes they do!

formerly known as Sam wrote:moving Cole to the marquee option and using the freed up funds for recruitment.

I really appreciate that to be honest. Cole's a home grown talent (from the tigers academy if I'm not mistaken?), so to see all his graft and loyalty pay off, I say good on him and good on Tigers! He's already seeing great test experience, and he's only going to get better.

Academy players should be exempt from the cap. would be great for club development. At Tigers this would make a big difference.

Alaister, Cole was given a comparible contract with Castro last time his contract was up for renewal. He's crucial to Tigers. Having been born literally across the road from WR and living within walking distance of Oval Park you couldn't get much more Tigers. Next season could see us start with:

1. Mulipola
2. T Youngs
3. Cole
4. Deacon
5. Parling
6. Croft
7. Salvi
8. Waldrom
9. B Youngs
10. Flood
11. Benjamin
12. Allen
13. Manu
14. Thompstone
15. Tait

Bench: Stankovitch, Hawkins, Balmain, Kitchener, Crane, Harrison, Ford, Smith.

I make that two non EQ and ten graduates from the Tigers academy. Woukd go up to three non EQ when Ayerza was back with maybe a fourth if either Goneva or Morris came into the back three.

tigerleghorn wrote:Academy players should be exempt from the cap. would be great for club development. At Tigers this would make a big difference.

And Newcastle players

But seriously, totally agree that academy players should be exempt. It would encourage development and promote long term strategies amongst owners, rather than comic book-esque buying of any and everyone!

That'll be Newcastle Tigers HKC. With Deano there we now have a proper scout at the other end of the conveyor belt .

Academy players are sort of exempt, theres a separate cap for them...however if they play too many games they get counted as senior squad members (quite reasonable)

As for castro its been on the cards for some time I guess, we did well to get an extra year from him. In terms of the spend (cap or resource limited) it doesnt make much sense to have your two most expensive players in the same position who will both be missing for the same games.

A huge hero who will be missed.

He will be missed PSW.

Personally I think that any player who plays ten or more games for the clubs academy should have the first 50k of their salary exempt from the cap. That should allow clubs to help clubs retain their academy products long term.

. With Deano there we now have a proper scout at the other end of the conveyor belt .

Not sure we need the Falcons help, they released Balmain at 18 saying he wouldn't make it. Three years in the Tigers academy then A team he is looking a cracking prospect.

Academy players are exempt, and there is a £30k credit for up to 8 ex-academy players on their first contract (that's around 50% of a typical first senior contract I believe, so well worth having), which is a pretty good incentive to develop and hang on to academy products. Gets expensive if they start getting international recognition, though...

Sorry, I should say I meant academy trained players being exempt, so teams are rewarded and able to retain their top talent.

Poorfour wrote:Academy players are exempt, and there is a £30k credit for up to 8 ex-academy players on their first contract (that's around 50% of a typical first senior contract I believe, so well worth having), which is a pretty good incentive to develop and hang on to academy products. Gets expensive if they start getting international recognition, though...

Surely international recognition should be a reward to the club as well as the player. Internationals are away for so many games that it's only fair that there should be 100% exemption from any cap?

100% is too much but putting in some sort of benefit to clubs training and retaining home grown talent should be a good idea.

formerly known as Sam wrote:100% is too much but putting in some sort of benefit to clubs training and retaining home grown talent should be a good idea.

I guess you're right that 100% is too much. However we at Tigers seem to be doubly penalised because when we are compelled to play competitive games during International windows and we sign little known players like Mafi to fill the player gaps, they always seem to play so well that when contracts are due for renewal some rich French club comes along with an offer we can't match. How can we compete?

I know Mafi has re-signed but it is a real conundrum that could be solved by 100% Academy player exemption

Well surely that works out well for you though? You get all the money freed up fom a player like Mafi leaving and then can buy in some new youngsters to train up again.

yappysnap wrote:Well surely that works out well for you though? You get all the money freed up fom a player like Mafi leaving and then can buy in some new youngsters to train up again.

Or poach players from Newcastle

formerly known as Sam wrote:(Parling and Ford are still yet to sign along with Morris)

Not sure if Leinster have approached looking for him back. Heard that they haven't. But it sounds like you have done a good job with him.

He had one good outing for Leinster where he scored and made a try saving tackle. Didn't get too many opportunities.

Hopefully he turns into a Jennings or Cullen rather than a G Murphy, meaning we get him back at some point.

Perhaps you can turn Fionn Carr back into the try scoring machine he was at Connacht. Fancy a swap?

mawhis wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Well surely that works out well for you though? You get all the money freed up fom a player like Mafi leaving and then can buy in some new youngsters to train up again.

Or poach players from Newcastle

Sshhhh we all have to dip into the sweatshop that's Newcastle at times .....

mawhis wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Well surely that works out well for you though? You get all the money freed up fom a player like Mafi leaving and then can buy in some new youngsters to train up again.

Or poach players from Newcastle

Sshhhh we all have to dip into the sweatshop that's Newcastle at times .....

Jen, not sure Carr would be a good option, especially as a swap for Morris. Niall arrived with pace and was a reliable finisher. He found himself down the pecking order because he never inspired that confidence at the back. Tigers like to have a solid cover option on the wing to cover Murphy's attacking bursts.

He's done a lot of work in that department so now he's a weapon under the high ball and he doesn't miss his tackles. He's become a damn decent wing/fullback.

He's been molded into Hamilton's replacement and with Scotty off at the end of the season we don't want another project instead of the completed tune up we've just finished. We have our own prospect who's scored regularly at lower levels and can cover wing/fullback in Lewington. We also have some classy back three options in the academy.

Fione Carr looked exceptional a couple of seasons back when he tore the Saxons apart.

I was half joking as Carr has been rubbish since he joined us 2 years ago.

Morris has now signed again for the Tigers anyway. unspecified length of contract. Hmmmmm.

Very rare the Tigers specify length. Judging by the wording I'd guess It's a one year deal.

Seems like Claasens is off to Toulon. So Bath will be looking for a 9 and Toulon now have:

9. Michilak, Claasens and Giteau
10.Wilkinson, Michilak, Giteau

With Carter to potentially join them for a little salary boost as well.

Castrogiovani is def off to Toulon too.

Not much of a loss to Tigers as he's been on the decline for the last season or too really.

yappysnap wrote:Castrogiovani is def off to Toulon too.

Not much of a loss to Tigers as he's been on the decline for the last season or too really.

Sadly you're right. Extra work load for Murphy now. He's gonna have to look after the restaurants on his own!

yappysnap wrote: Seems like Claasens is off to Toulon. So Bath will be looking for a 9 and Toulon now have:

9. Michalak, Claasens and Giteau Tillous-Borde
10.Wilkinson, Michalak, Giteau

With Carter to potentially join them for a little salary boost as well.

Claasens signing is subject to Wilkinson retiring which would mean Michalak playing more at 10. Also means that Toulon will not recruit a flyhalf.

Another SH , Dewalt Duvenage (stormers?) might join Perpignan.
finally Danny Rossow is meant to join Toulon in February once the japanese league is finished for the rest of the season.

Castrogiovani is def off to Toulon too.

Not much of a loss to Tigers as he's been on the decline for the last season or too really.

He had injury issues after the RWC and then was diagnosed with a gluten allergy that had been making him unwell. It has taken a lot for him to bounce back and he is clearly slimmer than before. His form in recent weeks has been better but he is definitely the second choice now.

Odd move for Toulon as they'll need to buy out the final year of his contract (some 300k+) and they already have two quality tightheads on the books.

Could be good for England though as Tigers have three tightheads under 24 behind Cole who could now all see a lot more rugby.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Alaister, Cole was given a comparible contract with Castro last time his contract was up for renewal. He's crucial to Tigers. Having been born literally across the road from WR and living within walking distance of Oval Park you couldn't get much more Tigers.

Yeah, I've got a soft spot for that type of development. I've bumped into a few Quins Academy lads in Guildford and surrounding towns on nights out and to have a jar or two and chat with them really gives a sense of community and grounded attachment to your club; it's not all marque signings and pie in the sky stuff - not that I'm arguing against marque signings. They are certainly required, but seeing locals do well reinforces why you support who you do.

Agree totally, that connection with the local area and in some cases the past (e.g. second generation Tiger Matt Smith) is good promotion for the club. That community ethos is vital for any rugby club that wants long term success on and off the pitch.

HERSH may have been right about Bath having a big signing coming up soon, Toby Faletau has been rumoured.

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Bath-Rugby-make-Toby-Faletau/story-17699820-detail/story.html

Tigers are probably more famous for taking players from other areas and making them part of the woodwork then getting players from the local community.

whocares wrote:

yappysnap wrote: Seems like Claasens is off to Toulon. So Bath will be looking for a 9 and Toulon now have:

9. Michalak, Claasens and Giteau Tillous-Borde
10.Wilkinson, Michalak, Giteau

With Carter to potentially join them for a little salary boost as well.

Claasens signing is subject to Wilkinson retiring which would mean Michalak playing more at 10. Also means that Toulon will not recruit a flyhalf.

Another SH , Dewalt Duvenage (stormers?) might join Perpignan.
finally Danny Rossow is meant to join Toulon in February once the japanese league is finished for the rest of the season.

Is Wilkinson likely to retire then? And weren't Toulon looking at Carter as his replacement?

Tigers are probably more famous for taking players from other areas and making them part of the woodwork then getting players from the local community.

Tigers have always been good at recruiting the right English players but the Deacons, the Johnsons, the Youngs (both generations), the four generations of Vestys etc were all local originally. There has always been a Leicestershire edge to the team even though It's not a majority. After all Leicestershire isn't that big, particularly in terms of populace.

yappysnap wrote:

whocares wrote:

yappysnap wrote: Seems like Claasens is off to Toulon. So Bath will be looking for a 9 and Toulon now have:

9. Michalak, Claasens and Giteau Tillous-Borde
10.Wilkinson, Michalak, Giteau

With Carter to potentially join them for a little salary boost as well.

Claasens signing is subject to Wilkinson retiring which would mean Michalak playing more at 10. Also means that Toulon will not recruit a flyhalf.

Another SH , Dewalt Duvenage (stormers?) might join Perpignan.
finally Danny Rossow is meant to join Toulon in February once the japanese league is finished for the rest of the season.

Is Wilkinson likely to retire then? And weren't Toulon looking at Carter as his replacement?

we will know by end of february if Jonny retires or sign for anothe year. Toulon doesnt really want to replace him anyway so Michalak would be their number 1 flyhalf.

Speaking of Toulon, they are rumoured to have Habana on their books next season. It's a done deal according to their coach.

Toulon are getting ridiculous now.

For starters they will have Gethin Jenkins, Andrew Sheridan, John Smit, Carl Hayman and Martin Castrogiovanni in their front row next season.

If they don't win a Heineken Cup soon...

They'll also have Kibriashvilli or however you spell it and he's a damn decent tighthead in his own right.

Is that the Clermont prop? Got to be fair to these French clubs though. They find massive front row guys from eastern europe and the Pacific and turn them into good front row players.

Who was the Waikato Cheifs prop last season? He was Samoan I believe and went to a french club. Looked a good player too.

Kubriashvili is the Toulon one Zirakashvili is the Clermont one. Good old wiki.

Is Kuvriashvilli staying next year? - That would be an insane about of quality THPs. I would give my left arm to see any of those 3 at the Blues, and I bet they are on pretty huge contracts being quality THPs.

How can Toulon afford this?

No idea. You'd have thought that Kubri (new nickname I invented) would be the one to keep as he'd be both the cheapest and at 26 the youngest. Castro and Hayman will be on serious cash. Toulon will be splashing over three hundred grand just to get Castro out of the final year of his Tigers contract, after that he'd want parity with Hayman. That's crazy money.

I'm gutted Castro is going but the fee will give the bank balance a boost and they'll be a lot of room in the cap to keep players and sign some more.

Kubriashvilli is a very very average TH, nothing to be very excited about, Toulon had clearly a weakness having him as 2nd choice behind the great Carl Hayman.

That's not what I've heard

Kubri kept Hayman out of the first team for an entire season! He is an excellent THP.

Now that Hayman has settled well, Kubri doesn't get anywhere near the 1st team, lets not forget Kubri probably cost Toulon the top 14 title when he got mullered at the scrum all game long in the final (Hayman was suspended).