v2 G.O.A.T Round 1 Group 1

First topic message reminder :

Today see's the first group of the competition with participants from Darts, Rugby, Snooker and American Football.

Three out of today’s four competitors have been championed by forum members (please see the below articles)

Please vote for the competitor you believe has achieved the most in sport and should be progress into the next round.

The winner and runner up will make it into round 2

Please leave a comment as to why you voted

Phil Taylor- Darts- Championed by CJB
Phil Taylor is the character that has transcended Darts. After taking up darts at 26, Taylor would win his first professional title in two years and by 1992 was a two-time BDO world champion. However, darts would be changed irrevocably in 1993 when a rival organisation – the PDC - led by 16 leading players was created.

Taylor would lose the first PDC World Championship final against Dennis Priestly in 1994 but losing in this championship would be a rarity for Phil. He would win 44 consecutive games, with eight titles including a 107.46 average in the 2001 final against John Part. 2002 was one of the high points of Phil’s career winning the four majors and the first televised nine darter in the PDC.

Phil would overcome a minor blip in the 2003 final to go and win three consecutive world championships. This would lead to the 2007 world championship final between Raymond Van Barneveld, four-time BDO champion, and Phil. This would go on to be labelled as the greatest match ever. Taylor would win the first eight legs and take a 3-0 lead in sets. He would bring it back to 5-3 before winning 3 consecutive sets. Taylor would win the next set to take it into a deciding set. The deciding set would go into a nerve-wracking deciding leg with Taylor losing in the greatest game ever.

The Power, as he is affectionately nicknamed, would win both the 2009 and 2010 world championships, with normal service resumed. 2009 was another vintage Phil year, winning 10 of the 12 major tournaments. Approaching 50, Taylor would lose in the 2011 + 2012 world championships despite his 11 majors spread out with these two years. With reports of his waning powers, Taylor would go on to claim his 16th world title beating the new kid on the block, Michael Van Gerwen in a stunning final on New Years Day.

The world title would be the 194th title of his illustrious career with 74 major wins. Not only is he the most successful player in terms of career titles but is also credited with the most televised 9-dart finishes, the perfect leg. He has achieved this nine times including twice in one game, a feat still unmatched, with only 34 ever hit. His dominance of the game is also shown by his amazing 3-dart averages. In 2010, Taylor would record the highest televised average ever with 118.66 and has thrown a televised average over 105 an incredible 117 times compared to just 78 from all other players.

So whilst the merits of Taylor as a ‘sportsman’ alongside the likes of Woods, Bradman and Federer may be debatable in your eyes, Taylor is a deserved recipient of this award, with his wins and consistent domination not equalled in any other sporting arena.

Ronnie O'Sullivan- Snooker- Championed by The Special Juan
Few sporting competitors can be described as the most “naturally talented” player ever to play their sport but that is exactly what Ronnie O’Sullivan is. Although he has had his fair share of controversies in the past (failed drug tests, leaving matches early), he has amazed crowds and bamboozled opponents with dazzling play, making him statistically the third most successful snooker player of all time (behind the behemoths of the sport Stephen Hendry and Steve Davis) and a real fan favourite.

The talent O’Sullivan possesses was evident from a young age. At just ten years old he made a break of 117, aged twelve he made a break of 142 and aged fifteen he made the magical maximum of 147.

After turning professional in 1992, he won his first 38 competitive matches (a record) and in only his second season on tour, he won snooker’s second most prestigious prize, the UK Championship, beating both Davis (9-6) and Hendry (10-6 in the final) on the way to the title. This made him the youngest ever winner of the tournament aged just seventeen.

Arguably one of the most memorable moments in snooker history came in the 1997 World Championship. O’Sullivan made the first of his current total of 11 maximum breaks in the first round however it took him only 5 minutes and 20 seconds to complete the break; a record which may never be broken.

O’Sullivan’s immense talent in the game has racked him up 24 ranking event titles (plus 11 other finals), including 4 World Championships, 4 UK Championships and 4 Masters titles. He is also one of only seven players to have won the World Championship, UK Championship and the Masters at least once.

Break building is the strongest part of O’Sullivan’s game and is what he has used to enthral crowds during his career. As mentioned, he has made a total of 11 maximum breaks and a total of 678 century breaks in his 20 years as a professional. One of his best and most memorable breaks occurred at the 2012 World Championship where he produced one of the greatest ever clearances to win the seventh frame against Ali Carter in the final (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY15samN7t8). The balls were scattered about the table and the frame was heading for an extended safety battle until O’Sullivan came to the table and made and produced some vintage magic to win the frame.

The flair, talent, controversy, break building, safety play and overall speed around the table when in full flow makes O’Sullivan the current crowd favourite of the game, just like Alex ‘Hurricane’ Higgins and Jimmy ‘Whirlwind’ White were before him and Judd Trump will be after him. Whatever current event is on-going, you can be sure that Ronnie O’Sullivan will be the largest picture on the posters advertising the tournament. One of his most famous controversies occurred at the 1996 World Championship against Alain Robidoux. Although normally right-handed, O’Sullivan can play almost as well with his left-handed (making him the greatest ambidextrous player of all time). When he demonstrated this against Robidoux, his opponent accused him of disrespect. O’Sullivan replied by saying “he played better with his left hand than Robidoux could with his right”. O’Sullivan was summoned to a hearing where he had to prove he could play to a high standard with his left hand. He was pitted against Rex Williams (a former World Championship runner-up) for three frames and won them all.

A true measure of greatness is how an individual compares to his fellow sportsmen. John Higgins, another four time World Champion who turned professional around the same time, is arguably the only player who can compete with O’Sullivan on top form. This has led to many competitive matches between the two including the 2006 Masters Final which is widely acknowledged to be one of the best snooker matches of all time. The two have competed against each other 56 times, with Ronnie holding a winning 28-25 record against Higgins (there were 3 draws). O’Sullivan and two time World Champion Mark Williams have met 38 times with O’Sullivan again holding a winning record, this time 26-9 with three draws. An interesting fact is that Williams has not defeated O’Sullivan since 2002. O’Sullivan also has favourable records against Hendry (30-21) and Steve Davis (22-6).

Although the hair styles may have changed over the years and the controversies come and gone, O’Sullivan’s game has continued to amaze crowds worldwide for nearly 21 years now. Despite being on a self-imposed sabbatical from the game, it’s very unlikely that we have seen the last of Ronnie, especially as he has a world title to defend in a few months…"

Jerry Rice- American Football- Championed by Spaghetti-Hans
In a recent NFL search to find the greatest player their game has ever had, two separate polls – one from the fans, one from the authorities – reached the same conclusion. There has never been, and nor will there ever be, anyone better than Jerry Rice. We could list for you the records, his all-time highs in receiving yards, receptions, and career touchdowns (records not just held, but repossessed, unlikely to ever again be taken), but what matters more is the moments. And what moments there were...

How about his first Superbowl win in 1989, the San Francisco 49ers last gasp win versus the Bengals? The Rice Bowl as it will now forever be known was Rice’s first accent to immortality – an individual Superbowl record 11 passes for 215 yards, MVP, with a performance so good that George Bush Sr., sworn into office only 2 days before, made use of the White House phones for the first time to personally congratulate him on his display. Then again exactly one year later, Rice put to bed that saying so popular amongst old wives and superstitious sailors, that ‘Superbowl champions don’t repeat’. The 49ers were dominant; The Broncos were humiliated – 55-10 remains the most one-sided Superbowl victory in history. And with 3 more touchdowns, our man was the chef serving bronco rare. That San Francisco team has a strong claim to be called the finest in the sport’s history, and all great teams have a ringleader. Like Jordan for the Bulls, read Rice for the 49ers.

Like a man who picks up the phone before it rings, his relationship with his buddy, the great Joe Montana, was telepathic – Rice would run, and lo Rice would receive. Time and time again Rice would pick that pigskin from the air by the fingertips. Yet Rice was so much more than an outlet for a talented Quarterback – his positional awareness, precision timing, riot-shield blocking, and long, mazy, electrifying running with the ball made him unique. For a Wide Receiver he wasn’t particularly quick, but like a Messi or Maradona, the man could shimmy and shake his way through a brick wall.

The mid-90s were an undisputed golden age of NFL, and a Monday night in 1994 saw possibly its highlight. San Francisco versus L.A Raiders: The Battle of The Bay. Jerry Rice makes three touchdowns – and in the process overtakes first Ol’ Walter Payton, then the legendary American Everyman, Jim Brown, before finally setting a new all-time touchdown record. In the heated cauldron of one of the game’s great rivalries, all four sides of the stadium rose to acclaim their new champion. Even Raiders fans chanted the name of the Fog City Saint: Jerry. Jerry. Jerry.

You know you have attained greatness when grown men whisper stories about you round campfires, and at last orders in smoky bars. And there are more than a few tales about Jerry Rice. It was said that he learnt by catching bricks, that he gained his high-knees by leaping through the paddy fields under the Saigon moon, there are some 49er’s fans who swear they never saw him drop a catch. He did miss a catch (once, or maybe twice), but perhaps what they really meant was that he never missed a match. His record was outstanding, his legend durable, in 20 years he only missed ten matches. He floated like a feather, but was made from oak. In his final Superbowl victory, the Three-Peat of 1995 against The Chargers – he proved the difference maker once again with three more touchdowns – and he did it all while playing with a separated-frickin-shoulder. It's said that he wouldn't get into the ambulance until that ring was on his finger.

The man was simply a colossus, a giant who towers over every aspect of his sport. Will he win this prestigious tournament? We suspect not. NFL after all is not a sport that translates - its fragmented, stop-start gameplay, and off-field excess, its half-time shows and inch-wide winner's rings run counter to the simple spontaneous joy of other sports. It would take a brave voter indeed to champion an American Footballer over the tennis player, footballer, or heavy-weight boxer. But if a GOAT transcends his sport then this is surely what Jerry Rice did – he made a complicated sport easy: Run; Catch; Run; Win. A burst of lightning from The Bay.

Union Cane wrote:

Diggers wrote:

Union Cane wrote:

My feelings exactly when I saw Hastings on the list.

Ignore him then, vote for one of the other three.

You've made your point about Hastings (several times over), and chances are he will probably be knocked out in the group stages anyway.

It is a great concept, and not inconsiderable effort has gone into it already, so let's get behind it rather than sniping and moaning, shall we?

As for this group. It's rather like a Football world cup group consisting of England, Sweden, Uraguay and Sengal. No obvious winner but still tight and that's what makes it a good debate.

Hero wrote:

super_realist wrote:It doesn't seem this has been thought through very well.

Are you always such a ray of sunshine?
I'm yet to find anything of a positive nature from yourself on the thread and it begs the question why you're continuously posting on the thread if to only tear holes in it?
Yes on reflection the inclusion of Hasting is probably an error, get over it and move on.

For once I'm actually being constructive. This really hasn't been thought through at all it would seem. The title of this poll is Who is the GOAT?

This is more like a world cup format used for random names similar to what Loaded/FHM used to do for Crisps, Chocolate Bars, Porn mags etc.

If you're going to have a GOAT poll, it helps if the candidates are actually considered to be GOAT in their chosen sport. Hastings isn't even close to being the Rugby GOAT.

super_realist wrote:

Hero wrote:

super_realist wrote:It doesn't seem this has been thought through very well.

Are you always such a ray of sunshine?
I'm yet to find anything of a positive nature from yourself on the thread and it begs the question why you're continuously posting on the thread if to only tear holes in it?
Yes on reflection the inclusion of Hasting is probably an error, get over it and move on.

For once I'm actually being constructive. This really hasn't been thought through at all it would seem. The title of this poll is Who is the GOAT?

This is more like a world cup format used for random names similar to what Loaded/FHM used to do for Crisps, Chocolate Bars, Porn mags etc.

If you're going to have a GOAT poll, it helps if the candidates are actually considered to be GOAT in their chosen sport. Hastings isn't even close to being the Rugby GOAT.

You have to start somewhere.

Maybe you should ignore the first few rounds and come back for the semi's

This is more like a world cup format used for random names similar to what Loaded/FHM used to do for Crisps, Chocolate Bars, Porn mags etc.

McCoys, Galaxy, Club.

A great night in.

Union Cane wrote:

Diggers wrote:

Union Cane wrote:

My feelings exactly when I saw Hastings on the list.

Ignore him then, vote for one of the other three.

You've made your point about Hastings (several times over), and chances are he will probably be knocked out in the group stages anyway.

It is a great concept, and not inconsiderable effort has gone into it already, so let's get behind it rather than sniping and moaning, shall we?

I agree, its a great concept and was looking forward to it starting hence the reason why I queried Hastings inclusion at the start of the thread. The fact it took a long time to get any kind of feedback has probably led to a lot more comments knocking the set up, now someone has said it was a mistake that he was on the list and explained why some people might not have a write up then fine. But dont get all humpy just because you get a bit of stick and ribbing for such a leftfield inclusion, Im sure you are all big boys who can take it. And I did vote ages ago by the way.

It has to be Jerry Rice. Only two of the candidates pass the infallible 'shoe test' and one of them is pretty average.

Rice wins.

Incidentally, has anyone written anything for Ritchie McCaw?

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:It has to be Jerry Rice. Only two of the candidates pass the infallible 'shoe test' and one of them is pretty average.

Rice wins.

Incidentally, has anyone written anything for Ritchie McCaw?

Agree with Rice.

The smoking test reinforces this.

If nothing else this thread has provided us with details of Super's preferred reading material for use next time he goes off on one of his rants against the Guardian or Daily Mail.

Genuinely though Hastings was an oversight, nothing more nothing less, apologies to anyone if they feel it lessens the tournament as a whole and I hope it doesn't spoil anyones enjoyment of it as a result.

As a rugby fan and some-time contributor to the rugby board, there's been plenty of discussion there in an attempt to identify the GOAT of the sport. Not sure how many RU players have been put forward in this 64, but I think big Gav would be lucky to make the list of the top 64 rugby players.

I think most of the rugby board would have expected to see some or all of the following names in this discussion:
Jonah Lomu
Gareth Edwards
David Campese
Christian Cullen
Dan Carter
Richie McCaw
Michael Jones
John Eales
Martin Johnson
Sean Fitzpatrick
Jason Leonard
Victor Matfield.

I'd be happy to write up the case for any of the above (Campo through gritted teeth admitedly), but just can't see a case for Hastings being considered in this sort of company.

I know next to nothing about Rugby but isn't Jonathan Davies rated as the best two code player ever?

Hero wrote:Genuinely though Hastings was an oversight, nothing more nothing less, apologies to anyone if they feel it lessens the tournament as a whole and I hope it doesn't spoil anyones enjoyment of it as a result.

Hero

I like the idea of the discussion, but I think the rather secretive approach to nominations has been the cause of the headaches over Hastings inclusion. Perhaps a better approach would have been to ask each section to select a small number of candidates that could then be whittled down (not easy for rugby, as my list above suggests). Something fairly similar is working well on the cricket board with our Hall of Fame discussion thread.

Stella wrote:I know next to nothing about Rugby but isn't Jonathan Davies rated as the best two code player ever?

Only if you're Welsh

Actually, there is a good case for that being true (although Jason Robinson would be another contender). The point though is that most rugby players stick to one code or the other, so being the best two code player is not as great an accolade as it sounds.

If we're going to go down that route, Jeff Wilson must be highly rated as a sportsman - All Blacks winger for most of the 90s (44 tries in 60 matches) and played 6 cricket ODIs for New Zealand.

Don't egg chuckers always talk about JPR being one of the best ever?

Was Hastings some kind of sick mistake?

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:It has to be Jerry Rice.

The only concern I have with Rice (great post from Spaghetti-Hoops ) is that - as Mad for Chelsea touched on earlier - his sport is very much localised being confined to just one country.

Hastings is a non-contender for me. Unlike would have been the case for someone like Barry John or Jonah Lomu, there is no obvious reason why he's been nominated and, far worse, no explanation. Yes, what really matters is getting it right when we decide on our GOAT. It would have been good though to declare that the GOAT had been selected from 64 worthy candidates rather than '63 worthy candidates plus Gavin Hastings!'. Moving on.

O'Sullivan can hold a cue but is streets behind Joe Davis in the history of the game's achievements. Too much for my liking, O'Sullivan treats not only his opponents but his fans - the paying spectators - with a lack of respect.

Taylor has been consistent and totally dominant in the world of darts. Like many, I struggle to see darts as being a sport. It's even less of a sport than snooker. There again, where does the word 'sport' appear in 'GOAT'? I was going to put my reservations about darts on one side and vote for Taylor ... until ... until ... I spotted JDizzle's post about Taylor's MBE. I might be being naive but I would like to think our GOAT could also be some sort of role model and have too many doubts about Taylor on that score.

Far from convinced about being a seious GOAT contender but Rice on this showing just about deserves another serving ....

super_realist wrote:Don't egg chuckers always talk about JPR being one of the best ever?

Only if you're Welsh

(anyone see a theme developing?)

JPR is usually in the discussion as being one of the three best full backs (Cullen and Blanco being the others - all generally considered better than Hastings). The 606v2 consensus usually puts Cullen as the best of the three - he was certainly one of the most gifted runners the game has ever seen.

two questions on Taylor:

1) how global is darts as a sport? how many countries play it to a good level? have a feeling it's mostly in the UK but genuinely unsure...

2) what did he do to lose his MBE? like guildford I think too large character problems would compromise his case, and to lose his MBE...

the answer to these two questions will probably decide how I vote in this round.

After the disgusting, soul destroying and downright paedophilic inclusion of Hastings I could barely bring myself to vote, but I went for Ronnie.

Ronnie does what I want in a GOAT. He isnt merely great at his sport, but he does things that make even those who arent fans want to watch. Its the kind of magic factor. Similar to Gerrard being a great footballer, but Messi doing things that excite you just to see. Ronnie has the aura that the true greats have, and I think his talent transcends his achievements.

The question is whether he's a GOAT, not whether he got done for sexual assault.

chris.wilkerson13 wrote:After the disgusting, soul destroying and downright paedophilic inclusion of Hastings I could barely bring myself to vote, but I went for Ronnie.

Ronnie does what I want in a GOAT. He isnt merely great at his sport, but he does things that make even those who arent fans want to watch. Its the kind of magic factor. Similar to Gerrard being a great footballer, but Messi doing things that excite you just to see. Ronnie has the aura that the true greats have, and I think his talent transcends his achievements.

Not much better than Hastings

Steven Gerrard broke my heart in 2006 and even I can recognise hes a great footballer.

chris.wilkerson13 wrote:Steven Gerrard broke my heart in 2006 and even I can recognise hes a great footballer.

Are you Steven Gerrard's sister in law?

Listen, when we about GOATs from specific sports. Gerrard wouldn't even come close.
IN football you'd have to consider Messi, Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, Eusebio, PLatini, Zidane etc. Gerrard is a million miles from that.
The best of the best of the best, not a has-been who shows distinct lack of ambition by staying at a provincial club and whose career is summed up by one CL final and one FA Cup final and plenty abject games for England inbetween

Mad for Chelsea wrote:two questions on Taylor:

1) how global is darts as a sport? how many countries play it to a good level? have a feeling it's mostly in the UK but genuinely unsure...

2) what did he do to lose his MBE? like guildford I think too large character problems would compromise his case, and to lose his MBE...

the answer to these two questions will probably decide how I vote in this round.

1) There were 20 odd countries taking part in the WC. The best players are normally from Holland and the UK, however some of the top players are from Australia (Whitlock), Belgium (Huybrechts) and Canada (Part).

2) He was a very naughty boy

I wasnt talking about him being a GOAT, I was using him to show how hes a great player but how someone better transcends that ability to be a GOAT.

Obviously you have an extremely biased view on Steven Gerrard. Loyalty these days is bemoaned, yet when someone stays he shows a lack of ambition. The guy is still performing (check his assists this year) and has had hundreds of brilliant games. I wouldnt be too upset by being summed up for a champions league and fa cup final. He has played a lot of very good games for England, arguably his efforts have been undermined by others, but there are always people who ignore performances by England players cos they arent winning every competition ever so must be awful. This isnt the place to argue this, but Im not sure there is a way we could reasonably discuss this anyway

Stella wrote:

chris.wilkerson13 wrote:Steven Gerrard broke my heart in 2006 and even I can recognise hes a great footballer.

Are you Steven Gerrard's sister in law?

I'm a West Ham fan. That screamer still hurts me

Great goal that was. His first wasn't bad either.

The threads about GOAT, Gerrard, like Hastings shouldn't even be mentioned.

There is no case to be made for either. He might be a "great" footballer or in other words he's had a very good career, but he's not a great of the sport by any measure.

In 50 years will people still talk about Gerrard? Probably they'll still joke about him being an idiot who claims his favourite cheese is "melted", or perhaps his lack of a forehead, doubt they'll recall his football though.

The Special Juan wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:two questions on Taylor:

1) how global is darts as a sport? how many countries play it to a good level? have a feeling it's mostly in the UK but genuinely unsure...

2) what did he do to lose his MBE? like guildford I think too large character problems would compromise his case, and to lose his MBE...

the answer to these two questions will probably decide how I vote in this round.

1) There were 20 odd countries taking part in the WC. The best players are normally from Holland and the UK, however some of the top players are from Australia (Whitlock), Belgium (Huybrechts) and Canada (Part).

2) He was a very naughty boy

1) I think Darts is pretty popular in the USA as well but as you say they're not particularly good at it. That and the fact it's doubtful they consider it anything more than a pastime as opposed to something you could make a profession of.

2) You've never heard of Google?

We should have a Moaner of the Month thread.

Hmm I'm torn. Take out his "indiscretion" (putting it mildly) and it's clear to me that Taylor is the best of this bunch (with as I said earlier the caveat that I'm accepting darts as a sport since it's been nominated): clearly the greatest at his sport, which is more global by far than American football, and about on a par with snooker as I understand it (thanks to TSJ).

However, there is that "indiscretion", which like guildford I'm tempted to hold against him: I understand the argument that GOAT should be only considered on sporting merit, but I'm not sure it sits right with me...

Only if they're idiots. He's one of Liverpool's greats, and everyone knows if you're a great at that club then English football with never let you be forgotten.

I was using him as a comparison to Messi, a comparison to how the greats do things the very good cannot.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:However, there is that "indiscretion", which like guildford I'm tempted to hold against him:I understand the argument that GOAT should be only considered on sporting merit, but I'm not sure it sits right with me...

That's not the case at all, MFC. There are no guidelines saying that votes should only be cast on the basis of what each person did from a purely sporting perspective; it might be for some, but others will no doubt take other factors in to account such as how well they've 'represented' their sport on the world stage, their lasting legacy, their ability to transcend, influence in linking their sport to the politics of their time etc.

There's no general rule of thumb here - vote in whatever way feels best for you, mate.

Chris, I'm sure he could probably be considered a GOAT of LIverpool FC, although doubtless Dalglish, Rush, Keegan, Toshack, Hughes, Grobellar etc might hold him off but to mention him as a GOAT of football in general is as daft as having Hastings as a GOAT of the rugby world.

I know what you mean about your comparison to Messi, but people seem to be including people because they're a fan of a particular sport/team or sportsman. It isn't objective.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Hmm I'm torn. Take out his "indiscretion" (putting it mildly) and it's clear to me that Taylor is the best of this bunch (with as I said earlier the caveat that I'm accepting darts as a sport since it's been nominated): clearly the greatest at his sport, which is more global by far than American football, and about on a par with snooker as I understand it (thanks to TSJ).

However, there is that "indiscretion", which like guildford I'm tempted to hold against him: I understand the argument that GOAT should be only considered on sporting merit, but I'm not sure it sits right with me...

I absolutely hate Phil Taylor so couldnt make myself vote for him, but he certainly has had a truly great career. He has fought off many talented individuals, knocked people who were previously the best off their perch, crushed others at the peak of their talents and beaten a lot of newcomers. And his ability is enough to psychologically crush his opponents, they understand his aura and cant deal with it.

But he is a Tinkywinky

I get that you can make a case for darts being more global than gridiron, but then again how many pro american footballers have there been over the years compared to pro darts players ?
It all comes down to the talent pool, I suspect that though a lot of people throw some arrows in a pub not too many of them seriously consider making a living from the game, basically unless you are very very good it wouldnt be worth it. You'd by and large be better off becoming a plumber or a sparky.
But playing pro gridiron is the dream of an awful lot of kids who grow up in a country of over 300 million, if you added up the populations of the serious darts playing nations it wouldnt be anything like that big anyway.
I suspect we will have this a lot but its not just about how widely the game is played geographically, its about the numbers who participate at a serious level even if thats in just one country.

Not many people globally actually partake in Boxing though, and it's a pretty sure thing that Ali is going to figure highly in any GOAT poll.

Gridiron is or at least was quite big in Germany and other parts of Europe and not just confined to America.

super_realist wrote:Not many people globally actually partake in Boxing though, and it's a pretty sure thing that Ali is going to figure highly in any GOAT poll.

Completely agree and actually had this debate on the boxing board about boxers being considerd as sporting GOAT. Im sure it will continue as the debate goes deeper.

Yup, guaranteed loads of disagreements, just what we need after a quiet christmas.

Loads of fisherman though. Bob Nudd anyone?

Stella wrote:Gridiron is or at least was quite big in Germany and other parts of Europe and not just confined to America.

It's a global sport in terms of following, it has a big international reach that I would wager far outstrips that of either darts or snooker. But in terms of participation it is significantly harder for non-American's to reach the top level of the NFL. Almost all players must pass through a US college football programme and I can imagine that is unobtainable for most potential athletes outside the States.

I don't think that diminishes what Jerry Rice achieved though, I think he is comfortably in the debate for GOAT along with a couple of other football players.

super_realist wrote:Yup, guaranteed loads of disagreements, just what we need after a quiet christmas.

Loads of fisherman though. Bob Nudd anyone?

Dunno about fishing but Id imagine there are no table tennis players in the list and thats a sport obviously played by an awful lot of people. Jon-Ove Waldner maybe the best male ever but there hasnt really been one dominant individual, maybe because the talent pool is so deep.

Nicol David?

As someone who ranks Irvine as Scotlands Fullback GOAT, I'm going to discount Hastings immediatly.

I know next to nothing about American Football and have literally no desire to learn having tried to watch it in the past, Spag-Hans write up is very good and this Rice guy sounds like a hell of a player, but I can't bring myself to vote for him.

O'Sullivan is probably the most naturally talented snooker player I've ever seen, but in terms of achievement he's well behind Hendry and Davis in terms of acomplishments, if he's screwed the nut a wee bit he possibly could have been the best but on a pure achivements basis it's impossible to make a GOAT argument for him.

That leaves me with Taylor, say what you want about Darts as a sport or his personal character, but if there is one man on this list who is undisputedly the GOAT of his field it's Taylor, he surpasses everyone in terms of acheivements, general play, and the fact he has just beaten everyone, established, up and coming, everyone.

I know he might not be everyones cup of tea but of the 3 sports I'm farmilier with in this poll, Taylor is the stand out for me.

Jahangir Khan or Jansher Khan? Both incredibly dominant one after the other.

Jonah Barrington.

Union Cane wrote:

Diggers wrote:

Union Cane wrote:

My feelings exactly when I saw Hastings on the list.

Ignore him then, vote for one of the other three.

You've made your point about Hastings (several times over), and chances are he will probably be knocked out in the group stages anyway.

It is a great concept, and not inconsiderable effort has gone into it already, so let's get behind it rather than sniping and moaning, shall we?

It's not this Hastings (who on earth is he anyway?) chap's inclusion in itself that's damaging, but the fact that a potential sleeper athlete will likely have been excluded to accommodate him. If a Shaquille O'Neal or a Peyton Manning is omitted in favor of Hastings, then it becomes an issue. But as long as everyone who merits a place on the shortlist gets a spot, then we have no problem with this Hastings making up the numbers.

Jerry Rice for me, no question. 20 years of dominance.

O'Sullivan - should have won more world titles with his talent.

Taylor - greatest ever darts player? Yes. But no way he wins 16 world titles in a unified field, 8-10 probably, and the early PDC Worlds which he went on an 8 year unbeaten run weren't worthy of the name, "World Championship". The PDC title only became equal with the BDO when Hearn came along, and didn't overtake the BDO in terms of prestige until Barney switched, IMO.

Hastings - RWC 1991 semi final, tied game, penalty in front of posts, misses. Nuff said.