Change of bat for Rafa!

http://www.espn.co.uk/tennis/sport/story/190857.html#

Sounds very scary!

I hope it has double the spin. Something needs to happen to shake the game into controlling the technology.

I am kind of meh. Now if he was going down the Pro Drive (The Roddick Model I think it's called) I might have raised an eyebrow. I doubt he will change strings and despite maybe a heavier racquet might lead to him hitting a flatter ball. I know last year he used a heavier racquet.

However, this change is bizarre given that if he is to remain on a Clay based diet, not sure why he would consider such a change. The story itself is less informative whether he has used the new during any part of his absence from the game.

We shall see. Djokovic was using a new racquet and it only seemed a paint job was the only difference.

He wants more topspin? Seems a very odd move. Suggests to me he very much views the rest of his career as clay-centric.

Babolat added that Nadal's quest for more action on the ball prompted the switch. He said:"More top spin, he already has a lot of that but he wants more."

I presume that 'will be a nightmare for his opponents' is also a quote from Babolat representative - the article does not make that clear.

It just seems to have reached ridiculous proportions now - Nadal can play a safer game presumably with this racquet, allowing him to cut down on much running, but with his muscular game and a racquet designed to increase the already formidable topspin he gets, the game becomes more akin to a heavyweight boxer landing killer punches than anything else.

If he is going to go for more spin, then christ he won't have much of any elbows left!

bogbrush wrote:I hope it has double the spin. Something needs to happen to shake the game into controlling the technology.

lol even with this racket only Federer can come even close to the amount of topspin Nadal generates.

Not sure which has more "spin" Rafa's new racket or his PR company.

It Must Be Love wrote:

bogbrush wrote:I hope it has double the spin. Something needs to happen to shake the game into controlling the technology.

lol even with this racket only Federer can come even close to the amount of topspin Nadal generates.

Where's it going to end? 10,000 rpm and strings that grab the ball, give it a hug and send it back with interest?

Born Slippy wrote:He wants more topspin? Seems a very odd move. Suggests to me he very much views the rest of his career as clay-centric.

He has realised that he can't win a tournament off clay anymore. How long has it been since he last won one? Djokovic owns him on hardcourt and the new Murray will probably do as well. Also Nadal isn't getting younger.

Looks like what Uncle Rafa says still goes by the looks of it.

legendkillarV2 wrote:If he is going to go for more spin, then christ he won't have much of any elbows left!

Quite agree LK. If he wants to be on a stretcher between games and matches, this is absolutely the best way to do it. I am surprised that Toni would advocate such a strategy.

If the assumption is that opponents cannot handle the higher spin, and hence shorter points, it is valid perhaps only on clay, and that too on slower clay of MC vs. Rome or RG.

As IMBL says, if he is a creature of habit, and is willing to change, can Toni also inculcate respect for the 20/25 second rule? Better late than never.

I don't see it... he gets enough spin as it is, if he wants to protect those knees, he wants shorter points and less 6 feet behind the baseline, that is a raquet to help hit flatter to get on the front foot. Even with a flatter raquet he'll still rev the ball like shane warne when he fancies, I just don't see it unless he wants more control while he works his way back

legendkillarV2 wrote:I am kind of meh. Now if he was going down the Pro Drive (The Roddick Model I think it's called) I might have raised an eyebrow. I doubt he will change strings and despite maybe a heavier racquet might lead to him hitting a flatter ball. I know last year he used a heavier racquet.

However, this change is bizarre given that if he is to remain on a Clay based diet, not sure why he would consider such a change. The story itself is less informative whether he has used the new during any part of his absence from the game.

We shall see. Djokovic was using a new racquet and it only seemed a paint job was the only difference.

Probably as he is still badly haunted by those blistering huge forehands that Lukas Rosol dished out to him at Wimbledon last summer.

falzy21 wrote:I don't see it... he gets enough spin as it is, if he wants to protect those knees, he wants shorter points and less 6 feet behind the baseline, that is a raquet to help hit flatter to get on the front foot. Even with a flatter raquet he'll still rev the ball like shane warne when he fancies, I just don't see it unless he wants more control while he works his way back

The energy imparted to the ball must come from somewhere. The only source I can see is Nadal's muscles. Also, on his way back, changing a racquet is a double-edged sword. It is an unfamiliar weapon, but at the same time, winning requires less variants, so muscle memory with minimal thinking and mechanical execution is probably the easier road back.

Has he bothered to tell his knees that LF.. new racquet or no he still has to use his legs... and though the racket may well be designed to give him more power I cannot see that the game he has developed over so many years will change to that extent even if that was the intention... force of habit I would suggest.

laverfan wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:If he is going to go for more spin, then christ he won't have much of any elbows left!

Quite agree LK. If he wants to be on a stretcher between games and matches, this is absolutely the best way to do it. I am surprised that Toni would advocate such a strategy.

If the assumption is that opponents cannot handle the higher spin, and hence shorter points, it is valid perhaps only on clay, and that too on slower clay of MC vs. Rome or RG.

As IMBL says, if he is a creature of habit, and is willing to change, can Toni also inculcate respect for the 20/25 second rule? Better late than never.

He takes the ball high enough as it is on the rise on the FH and whilst I see them trying to minimise the impact on the knees, he is going to tear his elbows to shreds in trying to inject further spin.

I think any racquet changes should've been shelved until he can complete part of the season un-scathed. To introduce a new racquet so soon before he has even stepped out on court is bold to say the least.

@LK.. another issue that may have been forgotten is Nadal's shoulder issues post USO 2010 and his withdrawal from Paris.

@H-n.. he needs to stay healthy, which is paramount to his comeback. I worry about his physical well-being.

It's quite ridiculous really and just confirms what I've always felt.

Nadal can't hit a flat ball to save his life. He wants even more spin. It's such a cowardly approach. More spin, even more margin for error, even fewer risks. If he wants to shorten points then this is not the way.

How anyone can even compare this guy to Federer in terms of talent is beyond me.

haha talk about opening a can of worms!

i agree but you may receive a barrage bud!

It doesn't really open any can of worms at all.

For years Federer fans have tended to come to the same conclusion, always they are focusing their talk on one player not being talented... and funnily enough this one player is the one who troubles Federer the most.
It's called sour grapes, eg now Murray beat Federer look at Josiah's article just after the match. Didn't he also say Murray was not talented/ was lucky etc.

It's what you come to expect from some.

bogbrush wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

bogbrush wrote:I hope it has double the spin. Something needs to happen to shake the game into controlling the technology.

lol even with this racket only Federer can come even close to the amount of topspin Nadal generates.

Where's it going to end? 10,000 rpm and strings that grab the ball, give it a hug and send it back with interest?

I'd buy those strings even if they were three times the price.

a statement like that is likely to divide opinion, cause arguments and inadvertently create numerous new problems whilst trying to solve one.

e.g. from nadal fans that could lead to other rival fans.

LuvSports! wrote:a statement like that is likely to divide opinion, cause arguments and inadvertently create numerous new problems whilst trying to solve one.

e.g. from nadal fans that could lead to other rival fans.

Which statement?

I think it is quite an outrageous thing to say... whatever means Rafa has to resort to in order to save himself more injury than he has already is now called cowardly.. beggars belief.. But then here we go again...change the thread to lets compare it all to he who walks on water why not !!??

Haddie-nuff wrote:I think it is quite an outrageous thing to say... whatever means Rafa has to resort to in order to save himself more injury than he has already is now called cowardly.. beggars belief.. But then here we go again...change the thread to lets compare it all to he who walks on water why not !!??

The cowardly thing is hilarious.
I think they've actually convinced themselves that Nadal is cowardly because he is a counter-puncher.

Sometimes I play a match playing attacking aggressive tennis, sometimes I play more defensively.
It's not because I suddenly become more cowardly or more brave, it's just the tactic I use to give myself the best chance of winning that particular match.

It Must Be Love wrote:It doesn't really open any can of worms at all.

For years Federer fans have tended to come to the same conclusion, always they are focusing their talk on one player not being talented... and funnily enough this one player is the one who troubles Federer the most.
It's called sour grapes, eg now Murray beat Federer look at Josiah's article just after the match. Didn't he also say Murray was not talented/ was lucky etc.

It's what you come to expect from some.

I didn't say he's not talented. Of course he is, hugely so. But not to the same extent as Fed. No way. He plays with a huge margin for error and now he wants to make it even bigger. It's just boring and defensive.

Anyway, it's funny that you should say such a thing ie, Fed fan's are sour.

And there you are on the GOAT thread trying to down play Federer's credentials at every turn. Of course Nadal wasn't even considered for the reserve list. Sour?

Funny thing is.. everyone just ignores you

I have to admit on a thread about racquet change and some genuine points raised about the wisdom of choice then had Federer lumped in it.

Poxy hijackers!

Ok I see I've really upset you both so I'll take that back (cowardly).

I'll call it negative instead.



emanciptor - intergalactic tennis historian

ps - that is my final concession: accept or be forever in damnation!!!!

No em its you that should be ignored.. The man has yet to walk out on a tennis court.. at least you could have reserved such judgement until you saw him play. Why I have bothered to respond to your original comment is beyond me. because it makes me as bad as you -- stoop and pick up nothing

Eman, I said I voted for Fed, but I don't think he's the GOAT.
But against Armstrong, I still voted for Federer.
Anyway that's a debate for another day.

Haddie-nuff wrote:No em its you that should be ignored.. The man has yet to walk out on a tennis court.. at least you could have reserved such judgement until you saw him play. Why I have bothered to respond to your original comment is beyond me. because it makes me as bad as you -- stoop and pick up nothing

I will forgive yoooooooooooou oh child Haddie, for you know not what you doooooooooooo



emancipator

I swear you're a crooner!

It Must Be Love wrote:Eman, I said I voted for Fed, but I don't think he's the GOAT.
But against Armstrong, I still voted for Federer.
Anyway that's a debate for another day.

IMBL,

You never answered our question.

How does it make you feel that your hero Nadal wasn't even considered for a Wild Card after being left off the original 64, and that LeBron James coasted into the last 32?

Spaghetti-Hans wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:Eman, I said I voted for Fed, but I don't think he's the GOAT.
But against Armstrong, I still voted for Federer.
Anyway that's a debate for another day.

IMBL,

You never answered our question.

How does it make you feel that your hero Nadal wasn't even considered for a Wild Card after being left off the original 64, and that LeBron James coasted into the last 32?

Sorry, I was too busy reading this article to pay attention to your question:
https://www.606v2.com/t39812-federer-vs-murray-the-official-verdict

emancipator wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:No em its you that should be ignored.. The man has yet to walk out on a tennis court.. at least you could have reserved such judgement until you saw him play. Why I have bothered to respond to your original comment is beyond me. because it makes me as bad as you -- stoop and pick up nothing

I will forgive yoooooooooooou oh child Haddie, for you know not what you doooooooooooo



emancipator

You dont have to forgive me for anything eman... I know exactly what I´m doing its just a shame that you dont.

socal1976 wrote:I'd buy those strings even if they were three times the price.

This is why I think you will make a perfect coach for Tomic (even with the hip flask of Macallans on the court to keep you warm).

Amazing how you're all getting wound up.
It's just marketing hype...it'll be a new paint job over a slightly heavier, maybe slightly longer (1/2 inch) APD. They may have the embedded chip in this one so he can see how he's hitting shots afterwards (all racquets will have this in a few yrs...USB in bottom of butt cap, or wireless real time transmission...I wrote about chips coming into racquets a while back. But the more spin thing is just Babolat hype to sell the new 2013 APD and RPM Blast strings #2.

Chip: http://www.tennistonic.com/view_tennisnews?nid=1762

lydian wrote:Amazing how you're all getting wound up.
It's just marketing hype...it'll be a new paint job over a slightly heavier, maybe slightly longer (1/2 inch) APD. They may have the embedded chip in this one so he can see how he's hitting shots afterwards (all racquets will have this in 10 yrs...USB in bottom of butt cap, or wireless real time transmission...I wrote about chips coming into racquets a while back. But the more spin thing is just Babolat hype to sell the new 2013 APD and RPM Blast strings #2.

Tend to agree Lydian. New Rafa, new racket, new era....etc

Same old hype.

@Lydian...

As per Eric Babolat, the owner of the company, "Uncle Toni put pressure on Rafa to change. If you want to be better, you have to take risks"

Is this journalistic hyperbole, or does it signify any change in attacking tennis as compared to 85% certainty of hitting a winner mindset?

emancipator wrote:It's quite ridiculous really and just confirms what I've always felt.

Nadal can't hit a flat ball to save his life. He wants even more spin. It's such a cowardly approach. More spin, even more margin for error, even fewer risks. If he wants to shorten points then this is not the way.

How anyone can even compare this guy to Federer in terms of talent is beyond me.

for being willing to say it.

I would like to agree but on the basis of the article there isn't really enough to draw that conclusion and has been mentioned earlier it's probably just hype. So I guess a case of premature spejaculation here.

emancipator wrote:Nadal can't hit a flat ball to save his life.

Garbage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=sKoUrBhhh7k (110mph...you'll rarely see any FH above that)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUCx83nPyQU (Federer would be proud of that one)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUnEvtIh3D4 (30 secs in...1st clip vs Murray...flat BH then flat FH)
etc.

However, the spin Nadal creates needs as much talent as any flat hitter, if not more. No other player can create his level of RPM no matter what racquet/string combo they could use. Why should he negate this talent of technique by merely hitting flat all the time to satisfy his armchair critics?

Lydian you should well know by now he has to be criticised for something .!!!

Indeed HN. Talentless moonballer that he is.
What people fail to realise is that they argue the wrong issue. Flat vs spin...who cares.
The top 4 are the most successful not because of their shots but because of their movement!

Lydian can I ask. Do you think nadal would be as successful if he tried to take the ball earlier, hit flatter etc?
Yes or no?

I think feds is more about his shots than movement, especially nowadays where his movement isn't as good as it was.

No you have forgotten something Lydian.. he has acquired an addition to that
"Talentless cowardly moonballer"---- keep it up Rafa

Fed is more about his shots now, but not before...he was (still is) an amazing mover. We discussed this the other day...my theory is that he's lost a lot of core strength due to his back which makes him just that bit less explosive so he has to rely on being even more aggressive on the ball.

No I don't think Nadal would be more successful if he hit flatter. Hitting flat is no big deal, any player can do it...there are many flatter hitters out there but are they more successful than Nadal? No. It's his spin that bamboozles people, it's prodigious...look at that point in the 3rd clip above vs Federer at Wimbledon08. Who else could hit that shot? He can take balls pretty early...these guys are amazing ball strikers you know...but he doesn't need to, by taking it slightly later he gets a wider angle to reply to...he's the master of using angles back to kill his opponent with aggressive spin which pulls them further out of court. Not only is his strategy to win the point but to stretch his opponent in doing so. Tennis is all about being in control of the point, high spin = high control. Hitting flat isn't, it's Russian Roulette tennis and part of the reason why Nadal has 11 slams and Soderling none. Technically, hitting flat is very easy...hitting 5000 RPM isn't.

The point im trying to make is that, i'm not sure nadal would be as successful, consistent, keep the UE's down if he hit flat.
I think in most instances (just my opinion) I don't think rafa has the ability to consistently hit it as early as a blake or davydenko for example.
Taking it earlier, flattening it out is more risky no?
If nadal did this I think he would be much lower down the ranking, i know you will disagree but its just my view.
Nadal knows his strengths and diverting away from them would be very detrimental imo. He can do those shots imo but not too often.
When he takes more risks the errors go up.

You talk as though flat hitting and early ball taking is the holy grail of playing tennis. It isn't and never was. Do you think Borg took it early and flat? If it was the be all Nadal couldn't be an 11 slam winner. But he is. He doesnt need to hit flat all the time, and has shown prowess on fast courts...e.g. Won Queens, beat Federer at Dubai. Judge him by results not how he hits the ball.

You've been listening to Tenez too long... ;-)