The Crunch: Ireland v England Sunday 10th February 2013

First topic message reminder :

aka L'O'Choc: Irelande v Angleterre Dimanche le 10me Février 2013After going AWOL again yesterday, the French have most likely reduced the 6Ns title to a single game to determine the title.

Such a shame.

Discussion about the game - not about France going walkabout as originally intended.

Teams:

Greater Dublin Representative XXIII

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster/42)
14 - Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster/2)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster/121)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster/72)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster/4)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster/35)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster/15)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster/36)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster/63)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster/25)
4 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht/7)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster/24)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster/10)
7 - Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster/23)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster/53) Captain

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/23)
17 - David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster/3)
18 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster/3)
19 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster/91)
20 - Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster/5)
21 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster/48)
22 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster/126)
23 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster/35)

The Perfidious Albion

15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 7 caps)
14. Chris Ashton (Saracens, 30 caps)
13. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 12 caps)
12. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 1 caps)
11. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 12 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 13 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 29 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 6 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 36 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 5 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)
6. James Haskell (London Wasps, 46 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 13 caps)
8. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 10 caps)

Replacements
16. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 43 caps)
17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 5 caps)
19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 16 caps)
20. Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers, 4 caps)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 38 caps)
22. Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
23. Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 17 caps)

PJHolybloke wrote:All I know is this, when you play rugby as a forward, a good portion of your game enrgy is focussed on putting pain on your opponent in the tackle area, you want to hit your target so hard you knock the feckin granny out of him.

You do that so that two things might occur, the first is that he will learn that you are dangerous to him and he will respect you, the second is that he may be intimidated and not fancy carrying the ball much and will therefore feck up his game.

You expect your opponent to do exactly the same to you until one or neither of you gives up.

That element of the game requires a massive amount of discipline in order for the means of dispensing said pain, to remain on the legal side of the Laws, sometimes players cross the line.

Whenever players do cross that line, it causes people who do not understand that principle, to label them as Psychotic, homicidal thugs.

It is those people who are most out of order, the players are merely human, they make mistakes.

PJ, thank you for bringing some sense into this thread.

2 of the last 3 games? He won't play again this 6 nations if the citing panel do their jobs.

There would be nothing like the fuss if he's gone for the thigh or the back or something else. Its just ankles is a different matter -and there is some evidence that Cole was hurt - time will tell for sure.

They did make a lot of it because they had a great camera angle - but my first thought was its one guy loosing control and trying something on to get an edge in the scrum. Healy had good things about his game too - but he was nuts for a spell in the first half and 10 minutes at the side might have done a lot for him and the game as a whole

You're welcome Rory, love your music man.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:

Behave! Personnal insults and the "have you ever played" routine is for losers. As a former hooker I'm well versed in the cut and thrust of rugby. Gouging and ankle stamps have no place in test rugby. Do you know better than me his intent, maybe he's given you a call. My judgement is based on my 2 eyes. What's yours based on? Let's see what the citing procedure throws up.

So what you have said about Healy isn't a personal insult? Right.

Also you will have noticed I never claimed to know what his intent is. Unlike some other people on here.

As for those turning this into an England vs Ireland thing.. grow up please.

"clueless"
"grow up"
"have you ever played rugby"

And I've got to grow up? Ha.

Yes.

To introduce a different controversy - compsoite team:

Kearney
Earls
Barritt
No-one
Brown
Farrell
Youngs
Wood
Robshaw
Haskell
Ryan
McCarthy
Cole
Best
Marler

Sometimes the testosterone and adrenalin cocktail takes players to exceptional performances other times it produces mindless confrontation and aggression. The Irish pack looked to me to have the edge on England's and if they had focussed and concentrated on the rugby this result would have been different. They came out wound up and never took control of it and came off losers as a result. But none of that will show in the record books only that they lost. Don't think you can realistically lay this one at DK's feet, this was players not focussed on their job.

The thing which makes me think that what Healy did was not an accident was that he did it on his opposite number. He knew who was on the floor. In the first half England looked stronger in the set piece and were not fazed by Ireland or the moment. If Ireland had thought this England team was going to roll over like that of 2011 then they were very much mistaken.

He lost it, he was throwing his jukes after and to be honest a stronger ref and linesman would have brought out cards. Just because you don't connect doesn't mean their was no intent... 1 inch that way and he fractures an eye socket etc.

At the time Ireland looked nervous and England were looking comfortable soaking up the pressure.

Is he a dirty player??? Got to give players a couple of chances... Everyone loses it at some point... It doesn't make him dirty just frustrated.

Does he deserve a ban... Certainly and shouldn't feature in the rest of the tournament.
Gatland will be looking at this though and won't be impressed. He won't give two hoots about him being physical... What he will be worried about is Healy losing it come he big games... He's an experienced player, there was no previous issues between the two players but he could of been carded of either colour and cost his team the match.

He's a top class player but sometimes that's not enough... Properly let himself, Ireland and the lions down but after he serves his ban then I'd welcome him back for the summer tour as he's a quality player.

For the lions though actions like that cannot happen. We need maturity and calm heads and properly channelled aggression.

aitchw wrote:Sometimes the testosterone and adrenalin cocktail takes players to exceptional performances other times it produces mindless confrontation and aggression. The Irish pack looked to me to have the edge on England's and if they had focussed and concentrated on the rugby this result would have been different. They came out wound up and never took control of it and came off losers as a result. But none of that will show in the record books only that they lost. Don't think you can realistically lay this one at DK's feet, this was players not focussed on their job.

Ireland just don't have that killer instinct. When we got it back to 6-6 and they were a man down, instead of pushing on we completely backed off. Truely just a dyer performance. It is a performance typical of Kidney's reign here.

fa0019 wrote:The thing which makes me think that what Healy did was not an accident was that he did it on his opposite number. He knew who was on the floor. In the first half England looked stronger in the set piece and were not fazed by Ireland or the moment. If Ireland had thought this England team was going to roll over like that of 2011 then they were very much mistaken.

He lost it, he was throwing his jukes after and to be honest a stronger ref and linesman would have brought out cards. Just because you don't connect doesn't mean their was no intent... 1 inch that way and he fractures an eye socket etc.

At the time Ireland looked nervous and England were looking comfortable soaking up the pressure.

Is he a dirty player??? Got to give players a couple of chances... Everyone loses it at some point... It doesn't make him dirty just frustrated.

Does he deserve a ban... Certainly and shouldn't feature in the rest of the tournament.
Gatland will be looking at this though and won't be impressed. He won't give two hoots about him being physical... What he will be worried about is Healy losing it come he big games... He's an experienced player, there was no previous issues between the two players but he could of been carded of either colour and cost his team the match.

He's a top class player but sometimes that's not enough... Properly let himself, Ireland and the lions down but after he serves his ban then I'd welcome him back for the summer tour as he's a quality player.

For the lions though actions like that cannot happen. We need maturity and calm heads and properly channelled aggression.

You must keep your eye sockets in a very strange place if they are 1 inch from your ankle!

Healy's a very good player but his actions today were disappointing. The most frustrating thing IMO is that prior to that him and Cole were having a great rivalry throughout the game both in the scrums and in the loose, then it turned ugly. He'll get a ban though it's hard to know how long really, 4-6 weeks I'd hope for though many here seem to want more.

In terms of the game I'll agree it wasn't easy on the eye but as someone really invested in the game as a supporter I enjoyed it a lot. The conditions were terrible, I'd challenge any two teams in the world to play attacking rugby in that, but there were some really good rivalries to watch especially with the Lions tour looming.

Cole vs Healy, Youngs vs Murray, Ryan vs Launchberry, O'Brien vs Robshaw, experienced centres vs upcomers ...

For me those sorts of underlying battles and how hard it is to play in those conditions made it an enjoyable game. Add to that how wide open the championship was going into the game, a good crowd and some Ireland greats probably playing vs England for the last time and I found it a much better game than many seem to think it was.

king_carlos wrote:Healy's a very good player but his actions today were disappointing. The most frustrating thing IMO is that prior to that him and Cole were having a great rivalry throughout the game both in the scrums and in the loose, then it turned ugly. He'll get a ban though it's hard to know how long really, 4-6 weeks I'd hope for though many here seem to want more.

In terms of the game I'll agree it wasn't easy on the eye but as someone really invested in the game as a supporter I enjoyed it a lot. The conditions were terrible, I'd challenge any two teams in the world to play attacking rugby in that, but there were some really good rivalries to watch especially with the Lions tour looming.

Cole vs Healy, Youngs vs Murray, Ryan vs Launchberry, O'Brien vs Robshaw, experienced centres vs upcomers ...

For me those sorts of underlying battles and how hard it is to play in those conditions made it an enjoyable game. Add to that how wide open the championship was going into the game, a good crowd and some Ireland greats probably playing vs England for the last time and I found it a much better game than many seem to think it was.

But Andrew Hore only got a 5 week ban, so surely it won't be that long when you consider Hore tried to kill a guy?

It was noticable at the end that Cole and Healy didn't shake hands in the tunnel going off - hopefully they will be sat next to each other at dinner tonight!

Is it not interesting that Ireland, Italy and France had the better possession stats and all lost. Nz in the last championship had less possession than the other three sides but won their games pretty comfortably. The international game is going through a strange phase currently.

LeinsterFan, did you not think your pack had every chance of besting ours? I honestly think that they could have and just didn't get their emotions working for them. I can so understand where your frustrations with Kidney are coming from. Was similar for us for 9 long years of stuttering from one crisis to another, not being able to string performances together, coaches seemingly missing the point that's why I for one am exstatic with the difference SL has made and genuinely hope Ireland can find their own version. Ireland is my second team, family from way back and all that, and it grieves me to see the talent wasted.

On that note
Cole vs Healy - Healy much more prominent but probably for the wrong
reasons which may also be why Cole was quiet
Youngs vs Murray - Youngs no question
Ryan vs Launchberry - pass. Hard for me to pick out either but others will have a better idea
O'Brien vs Robshaw - They did different things - and did the things they were known for. O'brien was barnstorming at times in attack and defense - Robshaw as usual was everywhere and led well
Centers - Didnt notice D'arcy at all. BOD had some nice touches as did 36 (BOD better) but it wasnt a day for backs - Barritt best of all though

Oh - and Robshaw said they were back to London tonight - no meal together I think

LeinsterFan4life wrote:But Andrew Hore only got a 5 week ban, so surely it won't be that long when you consider Hore tried to kill a guy?

Not sure if you are joking or not, but Imo and experience, stamping on someones ankle is much more likely to result in a serious injury. I dont think he would have been trying to injure him but that sort of thing is not on, and I love it when there are fights, shoulder barges tip tackles etc.

kingjohn7 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:But Andrew Hore only got a 5 week ban, so surely it won't be that long when you consider Hore tried to kill a guy?

Not sure if you are joking or not, but Imo and experience, stamping on someones ankle is much more likely to result in a serious injury. I dont think he would have been trying to injure him but that sort of thing is not on, and I love it when there are fights, shoulder barges tip tackles etc.

Andrew Hore's incident is the worst ever thing Ive seen in a rugby match.

England were solid and had a better kicking game, isolating Irish players with a good chase and winning the penaltys. Simple tactics for those conditions. Ireland tried to run it which was never going to work in those conditions and with very well organised defences. They lost the kicking and catching dual and subsequently paid the price. England also had more composure when it mattered. Not much in it but simple and effective tactics,composure when it mattered and a better kick chase game meant that England were worthy winners

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

kingjohn7 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:But Andrew Hore only got a 5 week ban, so surely it won't be that long when you consider Hore tried to kill a guy?

Not sure if you are joking or not, but Imo and experience, stamping on someones ankle is much more likely to result in a serious injury. I dont think he would have been trying to injure him but that sort of thing is not on, and I love it when there are fights, shoulder barges tip tackles etc.

Andrew Hore's incident is the worst ever thing Ive seen in a rugby match.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

kingjohn7 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:But Andrew Hore only got a 5 week ban, so surely it won't be that long when you consider Hore tried to kill a guy?

Not sure if you are joking or not, but Imo and experience, stamping on someones ankle is much more likely to result in a serious injury. I dont think he would have been trying to injure him but that sort of thing is not on, and I love it when there are fights, shoulder barges tip tackles etc.

Andrew Hore's incident is the worst ever thing Ive seen in a rugby match.

The one against Wales last game? Thought it was a cheap shot but not that bad. Theres loads worse, What about Callum clarkes arm brake?

AlastairW wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Barney, have you ever played rugby to any sort of reasonable level? Ever played a competitive game?

Your comments suggest otherwise. In a game of such high intensity, a game based on contact and aggression, losing your temper CAN occur. That does not make it right, or justify it, but to start making such ridiculous accusations on the character of a person is ludicrous to the extreme. I think I can now see why Biltong gets so wound up about the constant digs made against the SA team for being dirty.

I am sure you are a person above any such acts though, and you are in the perfect position to make these judgement calls.

Accusations of character that are made against England players/fans routinely by other home nations. Yet although an Irish player is on the receiving end of it this time, I have no doubt that the dead horse of English being 'arrogant', 'cocky', blah, blah will be trotted out anytime it suits.

Today Healy was a thug. When he serves his ban, comes back, that's then. If Hartley had done the same thing on a Irish player? You'd be up in arms about it.

+1

Remember the outrage and hair pulling tantrums thrown by Irish fans on here last year when Hartley was accused of biting after being fish hooked by Ferris?? Now something far worse happens but the roles are reversed and its all, players make mistakes, heat of the moment, have you ever played, man up if you don't like it.

Pathetic from some posters.

Maybe Cole should have run bleating to the ref like Ferris did, oh wait he'd just been stamped on...

yappysnap wrote:

AlastairW wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Barney, have you ever played rugby to any sort of reasonable level? Ever played a competitive game?

Your comments suggest otherwise. In a game of such high intensity, a game based on contact and aggression, losing your temper CAN occur. That does not make it right, or justify it, but to start making such ridiculous accusations on the character of a person is ludicrous to the extreme. I think I can now see why Biltong gets so wound up about the constant digs made against the SA team for being dirty.

I am sure you are a person above any such acts though, and you are in the perfect position to make these judgement calls.

Accusations of character that are made against England players/fans routinely by other home nations. Yet although an Irish player is on the receiving end of it this time, I have no doubt that the dead horse of English being 'arrogant', 'cocky', blah, blah will be trotted out anytime it suits.

Today Healy was a thug. When he serves his ban, comes back, that's then. If Hartley had done the same thing on a Irish player? You'd be up in arms about it.

+1

Remember the outrage and hair pulling tantrums thrown by Irish fans on here last year when Hartley was accused of biting after being fish hooked by Ferris?? Now something far worse happens but the roles are reversed and its all, players make mistakes, heat of the moment, have you ever played, man up if you don't like it.

Pathetic from some posters.

Maybe Cole should have run bleating to the ref like Ferris did, oh wait he'd just been stamped on...

Well said YS

Recwatcher wrote:It was noticable at the end that Cole and Healy didn't shake hands in the tunnel going off - hopefully they will be sat next to each other at dinner tonight!

Is it not interesting that Ireland, Italy and France had the better possession stats and all lost. Nz in the last championship had less possession than the other three sides but won their games pretty comfortably. The international game is going through a strange phase currently.

Taylorman said something interesting about that, along the lines of poor teams have a lot of possesion but don't use it, good teams just take the ball and score. (He said it far better!)

yappysnap wrote:

AlastairW wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Barney, have you ever played rugby to any sort of reasonable level? Ever played a competitive game?

Your comments suggest otherwise. In a game of such high intensity, a game based on contact and aggression, losing your temper CAN occur. That does not make it right, or justify it, but to start making such ridiculous accusations on the character of a person is ludicrous to the extreme. I think I can now see why Biltong gets so wound up about the constant digs made against the SA team for being dirty.

I am sure you are a person above any such acts though, and you are in the perfect position to make these judgement calls.

Accusations of character that are made against England players/fans routinely by other home nations. Yet although an Irish player is on the receiving end of it this time, I have no doubt that the dead horse of English being 'arrogant', 'cocky', blah, blah will be trotted out anytime it suits.

Today Healy was a thug. When he serves his ban, comes back, that's then. If Hartley had done the same thing on a Irish player? You'd be up in arms about it.

+1

Remember the outrage and hair pulling tantrums thrown by Irish fans on here last year when Hartley was accused of biting after being fish hooked by Ferris?? Now something far worse happens but the roles are reversed and its all, players make mistakes, heat of the moment, have you ever played, man up if you don't like it.

Pathetic from some posters.

Maybe Cole should have run bleating to the ref like Ferris did, oh wait he'd just been stamped on...

And by making that comment you're clearly putting yourself head and shoulders above the posters you appear to despise...

Honestly, I do wonder.

Mrs p, Healy was involved in two instances.

The first was his stamp on cole... His opposite number.

The second was him throwing punches after a lineout about 10 mins later on someone who was not attacking him so he had little defence to say it was defending himself.

That's we're he could have damaged an eye socket if he was 1 inch closer... Use your brain woman.

I was genuinely very annoyed during the game, having seen it again I am Frak furious. He could have really screwed Cole for the rest of the tournament. Judge for yourselves, but as far as I can see the ref is on the right side of the ruck and looking right it at and does nothing. He stamped down twice! That is isn't testosterone, that is a player being a malicious bumhole.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teqizuet-ck

oh its testostorone/adrenaline allright!

but if you cant control it you need to be banned and learn how to!!

fa0019 wrote:Mrs p, Healy was involved in two instances.

The first was his stamp on cole... His opposite number.

The second was him throwing punches after a lineout about 10 mins later on someone who was not attacking him so he had little defence to say it was defending himself.

That's we're he could have damaged an eye socket if he was 1 inch closer... Use your brain woman.

It was merely an attempt to lighten the mood fa0019.

Thanks for the advice though.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

kingjohn7 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:But Andrew Hore only got a 5 week ban, so surely it won't be that long when you consider Hore tried to kill a guy?

Not sure if you are joking or not, but Imo and experience, stamping on someones ankle is much more likely to result in a serious injury. I dont think he would have been trying to injure him but that sort of thing is not on, and I love it when there are fights, shoulder barges tip tackles etc.

Andrew Hore's incident is the worst ever thing Ive seen in a rugby match.

For me Bradley Davies' spear tackle on D.Ryan was worse but hey ho.

Please chill people this discussion is kinda getting a bit silly. Yes Healey deserves to be banned and will be. Was he trying to end someone's career? Anyone who definitively says yes is using guesswork at the end of day, we can all have opinions and that's fine but please people take an alkaselser and at least try to have a clear head when posting


[quote England were solid and had a better kicking game, isolating Irish players with a good chase and winning the penaltys. Simple tactics for those conditions. Ireland tried to run it which was never going to work in those conditions and with very well organised defences. They lost the kicking and catching dual and subsequently paid the price. England also had more composure when it mattered. Not much in it but simple and effective tactics,composure when it mattered and a better kick chase game meant that England were worthy winners [/quote]

Can't disagree with any of that. Am pretty depressed that Ireland couldn't take the game by the scruff of the neck - in the beginning when we had territory but kept dropping it or when England were down to 14. I really felt that England were there for the taking, even with just over 10 mins to go. Having said that English fans could argue the same thing about their team, they didn't really take the game by the scruff of the neck either but England fans may not be having these same feelings cause they did win and therefore don't have as much need to look at what went wrong!

Why is my second quote bit not coming out yellow? What do I have to do I really tried to get it right with that one!

Irishhoneymonster wrote:Why is my second quote bit not coming out yellow? What do I have to do I really tried to get it right with that one!

You need to remove the / from inside the first set of brackets

Well done to England - you have the best coach in this year's 6N.

Not sure if Kidney is the worst but he's right down there. When the rain came Ireland had no plan B. Those are the sort of conditions where you wait for the opposition to make mistakes, so you don't worry if you don't have possession because handling errors and penalties will come. If you do have possession you use it quickly such as take a DG rather than keep recycling until you make a mistake. Everyone who saw the game has to acknowledge that O'Gara should have played his last game for Ireland. Ironically though, Sexton's injury that brought him on early and proved this point, will also ensure he starts for the rest of the series.

Kidney's paucity of ideas has been brutally exposed again and Ireland could easily lose the next three games.

On the Healy incident - he should get 6 to 8 weeks. He won't though because Cole wasn't hurt, and when Adam Thomson only got 1 week for stamping on the head, it's hard to see how they could justify punishing Healy much harder. Gatland won't want to lose his best LH so the Commission will no doubt bear this in mind and Ireland have every chance of having Healy back for the French game.

Now it's quoted me above as well as if I didn't write it.

When people look back at the game they'll realise that England's victory wasn't fortuitous, Ireland may have dominated possession etc but you could probably argue that England were smart in thinking...

"Hey... The conditions are terrible, let them make the mistakes, give them the ball but in their own half etc... Let them stuff it up which they did time and time again".

Those conditions were not in place to run phase after phase of play. From what I recall of the match... There were more unforced errors then forced.

fa0019 wrote:When people look back at the game they'll realise that England's victory wasn't fortuitous, Ireland may have dominated possession etc but you could probably argue that England were smart in thinking...

"Hey... The conditions are terrible, let them make the mistakes, give them the ball but in their own half etc... Let them stuff it up which they did time and time again".

Those conditions were not in place to run phase after phase of play. From what I recall of the match... There were more unforced errors then forced.

I agree with most of that.

To an extent, Haskell's binning actually focussed England better and once they got those 6 points during the binning the psychological shift was right back with them.

Change the first quote code to [quote] .

It's a fairly cut and dried debate. Healy was involved in two unprovoked acts of thuggery coming in from a distance to attack prone players who were unable to defend themselves.

England won because Ben Youngs put England in the rights areas and Farrell's ice cool punished Ireland's indiscipline. Ireland knocked on under pressure from a well drilled England defence led by Robshaw and Barritt and lost field positon as a result.

Have Ireland not got a better 15 than Kearney? He was dreadful today.

fa0019 wrote:Mrs p, Healy was involved in two instances.

The first was his stamp on cole... His opposite number.

The second was him throwing punches after a lineout about 10 mins later on someone who was not attacking him so he had little defence to say it was defending himself.

That's we're he could have damaged an eye socket if he was 1 inch closer... Use your brain woman.

Oooooh, you forgot to mention "calm down dear" you misogynistic ?&A!.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Have Ireland not got a better 15 than Kearney? He was dreadful today.

No. Ireland actually don't have another 15 never mind a better one! Kearney was indeed poor, but he has had next to no rugby to find any form.

Kearney is a class player - the poster must have taken up watching rugby this weekend

RubyGuby wrote:Kearney is a class player - the poster must have taken up watching rugby this weekend

Ooh, the last refuge of the scoundrel

[quote="formerly known as Sam"]Change the first quote code to [quote] .

It's a fairly cut and dried debate. Healy was involved in two unprovoked acts of thuggery coming in from a distance to attack prone players who were unable to defend themselves.

England won because Ben Youngs put England in the rights areas and Farrell's ice cool punished Ireland's indiscipline. Ireland knocked on under pressure from a well drilled England defence led by Robshaw and Barritt and lost field positon as a result.

Have Ireland not got a better 15 than Kearney? He was dreadful today.[/quote

Youngs kicking was brilliant today, he played the conditions really well and for the first time in forever Care didn't get a look in.

I would like to see Care start at least one game this tournament to reward his very good form and see what he can do for the team from the start. Otherwise I'm more then happy with Youngs.

[quote="yappysnap"][quote="formerly known as Sam"]Change the first quote code to

.

It's a fairly cut and dried debate. Healy was involved in two unprovoked acts of thuggery coming in from a distance to attack prone players who were unable to defend themselves.

England won because Ben Youngs put England in the rights areas and Farrell's ice cool punished Ireland's indiscipline. Ireland knocked on under pressure from a well drilled England defence led by Robshaw and Barritt and lost field positon as a result.

Have Ireland not got a better 15 than Kearney? He was dreadful today.[/quote

Youngs kicking was brilliant today, he played the conditions really well and for the first time in forever Care didn't get a look in.

I would like to see Care start at least one game this tournament to reward his very good form and see what he can do for the team from the start. Otherwise I'm more then happy with Youngs.

I agree. Not against France though. They will not go through the tournament without putting a shift in. Sadly England are the usual beneficiaries of 6Ns undivided attention.
[ed] p.s. Hats off to RTE for the integrity of highlighting the Healy incident. Not all host broadcasters have that.

[quote="formerly known as Sam"]Change the first quote code to

.

Never mind I give up will try next time when I have been drinking less. Just a shame reading these pages that so many people get overflustered about stuff, don't get me wrong I have already given my point of view which doesn't pass the blame or make light of situations but some of the stuff written on here is just silly, you'd think this was a bloody Welsh thread

Oh god I even got doing the fragment of ur post wrong, not to worry like I say I will work it out another time! Was prob more confusing cause you had the word "Quote" in your post!

IrishHoney - Let me have a pint of what you're on

Ben Youngs has really come on in that regard this season, we won aginst Tolouse on the back of his tactical play and with a mixture of that plus his attacking skills he is becomming a very well rounded 9. Probably why Tigers have little wage budget left after his contract renewal.

Re Kearney I thought he looked, slow on action and decision and his kicking inaccurate. Which is most unlike him, if it's a lack of match fitness that would probably explain it.

RubyGuby wrote:IrishHoney - Let me have a pint of what you're on

It's just wine mate, Sauvignon Blanc, but then maybe the prob is that it's pints See I can do the quoting when it's simple one post quoting but any more than that and I'm completely lost....pity Ireland couldn't do the simple stuff like me

Oh and by the way, please don't call me honey