Question:

When you don't live kayfabe in the wwe does face and heel really matter

For example (for me) del rio is dull as a face or a heel

So is big show, the miz I liked as a heel and still like as a face

I know how wwe works, and the guys I want to see I want to see regardless of face or heel so I'm saying does it matter, however as I've said before my kids have watched and instantly liked cena and disliked punk so kayfabe works just I don't find it important .... So is it?

I think its important, particularly for a good storyline, how many cracking films have you watched without a badguy?

I love Al Pacino, I don't care if he's good or bad but if he's in a film I'll give it a chance because I know he's a great actor and could make it work, I feel the same about certain Wrestlers, if they're in an angle it doesn't need to be a great angle but they make it work because they're that good, so in that sense kayfabe doesn't matter, I like guys for who they are not what they are, but for storyline direction I do believe we need good guys and bad guys

I'm not talking storyline, I'm talking the fans who know what kayfabe is

Who would you rather watch

Face cena or heel punk

Or

Face punk or heel cena

Or

Daniel Bryan or rey mysterio

it still technically kayfable of them playing a face character or a heel

I'm a huge comic book fan and heroes and villains are important to the very blueprint of superhero plots; it's important to have a demarcation because we define ourselves in contrast to what we are not and those contrasts bring more clearly to the foreground our own identity, strengths and weaknesses.

I guess its the same in wrestling, there is a thread running through wrestling that ultimately being good pays off in the end and doing the right thing is always the correct and best way to success. Heels and faces are important to that thread of morality. It also enhances the performance nature of the art - wrestling is an artform and thus by playing heels and faces, wrestlers are demonstrating their grasp and talent as performers and entertainers as well as athletes. The truly great actors are versatile and have a talent for becoming their character; whether good or bad, they make you believe them.

I think lastly as wrestling is predetermined it is important for the booking, otherwise it could become unnecessarily complicated or confusing. With heels and faces it gives you more scope for booking long term feuds - the heels may win the title and cheat to keep the title but in the end they're defeated and the titles are restored to the hands of the faces who bring honour and prestige back to the title without it becoming boring or stale.

For example Bobby Roode is for my money the best heel in the business right now, yes I'd like him as a face and yes I cheer for him as a heel but his heel character is so good, he really typifies for me what a strong, arrogant and overachieving heel should be. His ability to play that role has enhanced my appreciation for him, not just his mic skills, physique and moveset.

my favourite is ziggler regardless if he is a face or a heel. so no i dont think it matters much for instance i will never evvvvvverrrrr like cena no matter what role he plays

Character is important and in wrestling kayfabe is needed to establish that. No matter how good Punk is, it would be hard to invest in him if there was no consistency and he kept saying that wrestling was fake, he didn't really dislike his opponent etc.

In the same way, I know a film isn't real - but if the lead actor keeps looking at the camera and reminding me of that fact, I'll quickly lose interest.

My point is if you like someone like if you like Orton
Don't call for a heel turn

If you like Ziggler don't call for a face turn

If your stupid enough to like John cena don't call for him to turn heel

I heard booker t on raw talk about buyrates and I think if we want to watch wwe we have to respect buyrates

It depends what you think will make the product and the wrestler better. I think Orton will be better as a heel because he plays that role better. So, I'd enjoy it more if he were heel.

Similarly, theres times when a really good heel could make something of a face. Heel Big Show did a lot to help me like Sheamus again and hes done brilliantly to put Del Rio over.

Its a long term view for some people.

You're forgetting that we aren't representative of the vast majority of wrestling fans.

We're the minority that critiques the product, that assesses wrestlers' performances and understands what a buyrate is.

When Booker talks about buyrates, I cringe. Even though I understand these things, I want to watch a wrestling show that exists inside its own, kayfabe, universe. Otherwise what's the point in any of it?

I think your judgement is being clouded by the minority vantage point that you - and every one of us using this board - have

jai.roberts wrote:My point is if you like someone like if you like Orton
Don't call for a heel turn

If you like Ziggler don't call for a face turn

If your stupid enough to like John cena don't call for him to turn heel

I heard booker t on raw talk about buyrates and I think if we want to watch wwe we have to respect buyrates

I'm struggling to get your point, if you like someone why not call for them to be heel or face? If you think it'll progress their character then why not? You may think Cena is lame right now, I can't stand him but if he turns heel in the same mould as Hogan then it could make for a pretty epic long term story

Are you interested in the storytelling side of Wrestling or just the actual Wrestling? Even if you're just interested in the in ring product there's a huge difference in the way a guy performs when he is face and heel, he doesn't wrestle the same kind of matches