Nadal Says The 25 Second Rule Will Harm The Fans

This is what Nadal had to say about the new 25 second rule. I was wondering when he would be asked about it.

“People want to see long matches, competitive rallies and amazing shots. For me to play in a high level for four hours, I need more than 25 seconds,” said the Spaniard, famous for taking long between serves. ”I don’t think players are happy with the new rule. The umpire will have to decide when it’s up to follow it or not. Because if it’s something mathematical, it will harm the fans.”

http://www.tennispanorama.com/archives/35199/rafael-nadal-tennis-panroama-news

Quite right too!

Yet I suspect the decision to enforce the rule was made because of rumblings of disgruntled fans.
Rafa doesn't (and shouldn't) speak for the fans as he can't possibly know what they all think.
He admits he needs to break the rules to play at a high level and effectively want the rules changed to accomodate this.
Then he justifies it by saying it's what the fans want.
Have to admit, I find that quite selfish - calling for a rule change that will benefit himself.

Well there might be something in what Nadal is saying.

I mean we know that football fans are very happy to see delaying tactics and time-wasting.

Provided of course it's their team wasting the time whilst in the lead with five minutes left on the clock.

It's not a "new" 25 second rule. It was always 25 seconds but the umpires were not enforcing it.

I think he's calling AGAINST the recent rule change. (It was a rule change and not merely a decision to enforce the old rule.) Rafa is saying that in his opinion the fans want to see competitive rallies and amazing shots. Also (in his opinion) that the with the new rule it will be imposable to do this over a long period of time so the new rule will stop fans from seeing competitive rallies and amazing shots.

As a fan I certainly will be disappointed if this stupid rule prevents me from seeing competitive rallies and amazing shots. So he's speaking for the likes of me... but not perhaps fans who don't like watching such things.

Looks like most of Nadal fanatics on here feel harmed, so he is right.

It wasn't a rule change.

JuliusHMarx wrote:It wasn't a rule change.

I think they should enforce the rule myself. I get tired of all the constant towelling, pacing, and chatting with their box after each and every point. Is it hard when you are pushed in a long rally and have to serve again right away? Hell yeah it is, I have often approached the line winned from the last point, with my feat and muscles aching or having gone completely numb. I have even gone sampras on the court and lost my cookies (no alcohol involved Murdoch you joker). You got to tough it out and find another way to get the job done, you attack the first ball more and sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

From my understanding they did change the rule by letting the umpire call a fault on the server, I think it is a rule change.

socal1976 wrote:From my understanding they did change the rule by letting the umpire call a fault on the server, I think it is a rule change.

At most it is an amendment of an existing rule. The limit has been 25 seconds (outside of slams) for a long time. The amendment should not cause any players any problems if they were sticking to the old rules...........

Well that is a big change because it encourages the umpires to use it much more as they can give more than a warning and not take the extreme step of point penaltying anyone. It isn't a minor change and I think it is a good change. If a fan yells out or something during the serve motion or their is a delay that is one thing but do you have to towelling after every point, nobody sweats that much and that is what sweatbands are for.

It's high time the vast majority of players on the tour who have always somehow managed to play comfortably within the 25 second rule started breaking it.

Otherwise how can we ever hope to see them get involved in "competitive rallies" - let alone hit an amazing shot ......... ??

lags72 wrote:It's high time the vast majority of players on the tour who have always somehow managed to play comfortably within the 25 second rule started breaking it.

Otherwise how can we ever hope to see them get involved in "competitive rallies" - let alone hit an amazing shot ......... ??

Interesting idea - enforce a minimum 25 second break in order to ensure a higher quality match.

socal1976 wrote:Well that is a big change because it encourages the umpires to use it much more as they can give more than a warning and not take the extreme step of point penaltying anyone. It isn't a minor change and I think it is a good change. If a fan yells out or something during the serve motion or their is a delay that is one thing but do you have to towelling after every point, nobody sweats that much and that is what sweatbands are for.

It is good that it is being enforced more. The ATP are softening the blow by reducing the penalty (that is the change), they could have just tightened up the enforcement of the existing rule.

Yes but it would have just been the status quo, making it a fault encourages the rule to be enforced by giving the umpire a reasonable middle road punishment for the conduct that everyone will be more willing to use than bluffing a point penalty.

socal1976 wrote:Yes but it would have just been the status quo, making it a fault encourages the rule to be enforced by giving the umpire a reasonable middle road punishment for the conduct that everyone will be more willing to use than bluffing a point penalty.

True Socal, it does make it easier for them. It should be fairly straightforward for the players too as they already knew the time limit.

He is only saying this as it will harm his chances of winning matches more than it will for his closest rivals.

socal1976 wrote:Well that is a big change because it encourages the umpires to use it much more as they can give more than a warning and not take the extreme step of point penaltying anyone. It isn't a minor change and I think it is a good change. If a fan yells out or something during the serve motion or their is a delay that is one thing but do you have to towelling after every point, nobody sweats that much and that is what sweatbands are for.

Im not defending time violation by any means.. but to say no one sweats that much anymore.. bliddy hell did you watch Rafa the sweat was pouring off the end of his nose whilst he was about to serve.. try watching Berdych next time.. of course they sweat as much now as ever though I will grant you that the excessive use of towelling is beyond a joke.
But I will advocate that there are those known for time violation but that the umpire needs to be seen to be fair in all this... the time violation rule applies to every player.

Haddie-nuff wrote:But I will advocate that there are those known for time violation but that the umpire needs to be seen to be fair in all this... the time violation rule applies to every player.

Exactly.

Haddie-nuff wrote:....................................
.....................................................
But I will advocate that there are those known for time violation but that the umpire needs to be seen to be fair in all this... the time violation rule applies to every player.

It does indeed H-n.

But something tells me the umpire might be keeping a slightly closer watch on some players than on others........

( that's just speculation on my part of course ......... )

Well in truth I have to say with no disrespects to the young man.. or indeed the result.. but I would say that Zeballos was pushing his luck on more than a couple of occasions !! but I saw no violation warnings given on either side. The match was played in such a sporting manner perhaps the umpire decided to waive it.

I don't think its fans complaining, I think its TV companies having to schedule 5-6hr matches...their prospective cutting ties with tournaments, or abbreviating coverage, is what would really make ATP enforce the rule.

Anyway, Djokovic takes as long, if not longer, than Nadal on average so its not just about Nadal. At AO12 Djokovic took 33 secs average, Nadal 30 secs.

But as usual, its a case of play the man not the ball.
The elephant in the room is slower surfaces. If you want players to simply give up on shots/ralleys because they're going to tire and go outside 25 secs recovery then so be it. This is what Nadal is hinting, that the game could become contrived, squeezed into a box to fit metrics.

What needs to happen is surfaces speed up so ralleys are shorter...this is why it was never an issue in the past, modern conditions have led to long boring ralleys and players cannot recover that quickly.

Since many of my own shots land an inch or two outside the side lines, I suggest an increase in court width, in order that the game not be squeezed into the existing box

Nadal conveniently forgets the players are the ones who voted to ratify the enforcement of the existing rule. The only complaining I saw was by a few players in the 1st touraments when the Umpires seem to be going overboard with it.. The enforcement seems to be settled down to a reasonable time period now as the umpires are using their judgement.

Players like Djokovic accepted the rule and adapted, so must Nadal. It was a pleasure during the AO imo- to see players step up and serve without wasting time, and there were PLENTY of long rallies and marathon matches.

TRuffin wrote:Nadal conveniently forgets the players are the ones who voted to ratify the enforcement of the existing rule. The only complaining I saw was by a few players in the 1st touraments when the Umpires seem to be going overboard with it.. The enforcement seems to be settled down to a reasonable time period now as the umpires are using their judgement.

Players like Djokovic accepted the rule and adapted, so must Nadal. It was a pleasure during the AO imo- to see players step up and serve without wasting time, and there were PLENTY of long rallies and marathon matches.

Well unless my watch is letting me down I never saw Rafa take any more than the allotted time during the Chile Tournament.. not in the matches I watched at any rate.

Your increased court width suggestion sounds perfectly reasonable to me JHM.

Puts me in mind of the wonderful sitcom "The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin" in which the eponymous hero once wrote to British Rail, suggesting that they adjust the arrival times of their morning commuter trains by an average of six minutes ; whereupon the trains would all run to schedule.

Oddly enough, that's pretty much exactly what today's operators have been busy doing ........

JHM

What makes me think that even if it were the size of a football pitch you would still manage to hit it out.. or am I being unneccessarily harsh here ??

Haddie-nuff wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Well that is a big change because it encourages the umpires to use it much more as they can give more than a warning and not take the extreme step of point penaltying anyone. It isn't a minor change and I think it is a good change. If a fan yells out or something during the serve motion or their is a delay that is one thing but do you have to towelling after every point, nobody sweats that much and that is what sweatbands are for.

Im not defending time violation by any means.. but to say no one sweats that much anymore.. bliddy hell did you watch Rafa the sweat was pouring off the end of his nose whilst he was about to serve.. try watching Berdych next time.. of course they sweat as much now as ever though I will grant you that the excessive use of towelling is beyond a joke.
But I will advocate that there are those known for time violation but that the umpire needs to be seen to be fair in all this... the time violation rule applies to every player.

The excessive usage of toweling by tennis players has been something that was done way back in the 60's when Roger Taylor played.

gboycottnut wrote:The excessive usage of toweling by tennis players has been something that was done way back in the 60's when Roger Taylor played.

Was that before he became the drummer in Queen?

The excessive usage of toweling by tennis players has been something that was done way back in the 60's when Roger Taylor played

I would like to see footage of that as I have been watching tennis as long as that and before and as far as I know they never took towels out on to the court.

gboycottnut wrote:

The excessive usage of toweling by tennis players has been something that was done way back in the 60's when Roger Taylor played.

Really.....?? That does surprise me - excessive or otherwise.

I would have thought that back in the day when he was taken to five sets at a hot Wimbledon by a very young Bjorn Borg that the concept of a ball-boy standing by with towel at the ready was yet to be invented......

Some players take over 25 seconds regardless of whether they've just been involved in a 30 stroke point or a 2 shot point. If players were just violating it in intense heat or after lung busting rallies I might have more sympathy, but they don't. It's tactical as much as anything in my view, disrupting an opponents rhythm.

From what I've seen most players are happy to give it a go, so why not give it a go. Players should have been taking a maximum of 25 seconds anyway so this shouldn't be a huge change to those that abide by the time limits that have always been there.

lydian wrote:I don't think its fans complaining, I think its TV companies having to schedule 5-6hr matches...their prospective cutting ties with tournaments, or abbreviating coverage, is what would really make ATP enforce the rule.

Anyway, Djokovic takes as long, if not longer, than Nadal on average so its not just about Nadal. At AO12 Djokovic took 33 secs average, Nadal 30 secs.

But as usual, its a case of play the man not the ball.
The elephant in the room is slower surfaces. If you want players to simply give up on shots/ralleys because they're going to tire and go outside 25 secs recovery then so be it. This is what Nadal is hinting, that the game could become contrived, squeezed into a box to fit metrics.

What needs to happen is surfaces speed up so ralleys are shorter...this is why it was never an issue in the past, modern conditions have led to long boring ralleys and players cannot recover that quickly.

You haven't watched him recently, Djokovic does not take as long or longer than Nadal. Against Nadal who plays slow he slows down, but on average Nadal is much longer than Djokovic, Novak has sped up his play between points recently.

Haddie-nuff wrote:

TRuffin wrote:Nadal conveniently forgets the players are the ones who voted to ratify the enforcement of the existing rule. The only complaining I saw was by a few players in the 1st touraments when the Umpires seem to be going overboard with it.. The enforcement seems to be settled down to a reasonable time period now as the umpires are using their judgement.

Players like Djokovic accepted the rule and adapted, so must Nadal. It was a pleasure during the AO imo- to see players step up and serve without wasting time, and there were PLENTY of long rallies and marathon matches.

Well unless my watch is letting me down I never saw Rafa take any more than the allotted time during the Chile Tournament.. not in the matches I watched at any rate.

That's right-- so he can comply with the rule. Others have been able to play long matches with maximum effort and the umpires did a good job managing it.. Nadal shouldn't be complaining about enforcing a rule that is in place in the sport he competes in.

Indeed you could see Rafa serving in Chile with sweat running off his face - he wasn't towelling off, just saving time.

I for one don't want long matches.

Has Rafa ever tried public transport in Britain after hours????

Might sway his thinking.

Just a minor technicality, ATP time-between-points is 25 seconds, while ITF time-between-points is 20 seconds.

ATP stopped playing 5-set matches, while all slams and Olympics (final match only) play a five-set match, which typically results in longer matches (notwithstanding the Shanghai Djokovic-Murray or Federer-Del Potro Olympic match).

Perhaps slams (other than US) should consider fifth-set TBs as well.

Anyone recall the Baggy match in Australia? - http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/05/us-tennis-brisbane-men-idUSBRE90403K20130105

Probably will harm Nadal fans.. I remember what happened when Nadal was serving quicker against Federer in their 5 setter for the Miami title. Eventually this rule will be tweaked to allow an extra 15-20 seconds for the longer rallies, so it won't really affect many.

This rule is worthless, as all the umpires do is give warnings, which the types of Nadal, Djokovic, Delpo and co laugh about. They rarely go as far as giving point penalties. Only Mr Mug will occassionally get a penalty, but not the top players.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Probably will harm Nadal fans.. I remember what happened when Nadal was serving quicker against Federer in their 5 setter for the Miami title. Eventually this rule will be tweaked to allow an extra 15-20 seconds for the longer rallies, so it won't really affect many.

Miami 2005 - Federer (157 pts) v Nadal (150 pts) - 307 points in 223 minutes - 1.38 points per minute
Rome 2006 - Federer (179 pts) v Nadal (174 pts) - 353 points in 305 minutes - 1.16 points per minute

Madrid 2009 - Djokovic (125 pts) v Nadal (120 pts) - 245 points in 243 minutes - 1.00 points per minute
AO 2012 - Djokovic (193 pts) v Nadal (176 pts) - 369 points in 353 minutes - 1.05 points per minute

A cheat on court and a selfish opportunist off it who professes love for the game but in reality thinks it should be arranged for him to win. How I have missed him........ Not.

barrystar wrote:A cheat on court and a selfish opportunist off it who professes love for the game but in reality thinks it should be arranged for him to win. How I have missed him........ Not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otn96q_v6P0

One thing for sure now that he is back.... out THEY come !!!!
How we have missed them .... not

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Probably will harm Nadal fans.. I remember what happened when Nadal was serving quicker against Federer in their 5 setter for the Miami title. Eventually this rule will be tweaked to allow an extra 15-20 seconds for the longer rallies, so it won't really affect many.

More court jester material...the point about Miami05 has always been a fallacy...espoused by tenez and suckered by everyone else because he said it in a knowledgeable way.
Nadal took as long serving at Wimb03 as Miami04 as Miami05 as matches since then. I timed 03 vs 04 vs 05 vs 2011 Canada....no change! Always around 26-27s. But hey don't let a good story get in the way of the facts.

barrystar wrote:A cheat on court and a selfish opportunist off it who professes love for the game but in reality thinks it should be arranged for him to win. How I have missed him........ Not.

I can feel your blood pressure from here...presume you'll be calling all the other > 25 sec guys cheats as well then, or do you only single out Nadal? This so called cheat has brought more new kids into the game than you can ever imagine, boy that must stick in your craw.

Such a selfish opportunist ... http://fundacionrafanadal.org/fundacion.asp

I love how Nadal taking a few seconds extra (although I watched Chile Open and he has seemed to cut out on the time taken between points to around 15-20 seconds) is seen as cheating, and when Federer tries to cheat by pointing to the wrong spot on the court in trying to mislead the umpire it will be brushed under the carpet.

@Lydian... what do you think of my points/minute numbers?

I know you running discussion vis-a-vis time-between points and Miami.

What about the 20/25 second ITF/ATP difference?

I am to see high emotion rather than cold logic prevail. Prefrontal cortex usage is highly recommended.

Defend/Attack instead of a civil debate! Please sheath your swords gentle-persons.

It Must Be Love wrote:I love how Nadal taking a few seconds extra (although I watched Chile Open and he has seemed to cut out on the time taken between points to around 15-20 seconds) is seen as cheating, and when Federer tries to cheat by pointing to the wrong spot on the court in trying to mislead the umpire it will be brushed under the carpet.

Why drag Federer in here, is it because Barry made a comment and he prefers Federer, is that what this is all about, a f***king GOAT debate?

lydian wrote:
I can feel your blood pressure from here...presume you'll be calling all the other > 25 sec guys cheats as well then,

No, as usual, they're all excused. Wonder why?
But this year, I have actually to be fair seen changes from Djokovic to take less time, Del Potro today as well, and Nadal also cut down the time he took in the Chile Open. However I think what's clear is that Nadal is the one to blame.

lydian wrote:
Such a selfish opportunist ... http://fundacionrafanadal.org/fundacion.asp