The Greatest: Current XV - If you don't like it, change it.

As at the date and time of writing this post, you 606v2'ers apparently think (having shortlisted the players for consideration in the first place) that the following XV are the greatest players of all time:

1. Rodrico Roncero (Argentina)/Ian McLauchlan (Scotland) /Os du Randt (South Africa) (votes currently tied)

2. Sean Fitzpatrick (New Zealand)

3. Jason Leonard (England)

4. Martin Johnson (England)

5. John Eales (Australia)

6. Richard Hill (England)

7. Michael Jones (New Zealand)

8. Zinzan Brooke (New Zealand)


9. Joost van der Westhuizen (South Africa)

10. Daniel Carter (New Zealand)

11. Jonah Lomu (New Zealand)

12. Tim Horan (Australia)

13. Philippe Sella (France)

14. David Campese (Australia)/Jason Robinson (England) (votes currently tied)

15. Christian Cullen (New Zealand)

Is this what you want?

If not – click on the links below and vote to change it.

Voting ends at the end of this week.

Thanks to everyone for taking part.

Remember - if you don't vote, you don't get to moan like Jiffy stuck in a traffic jam about the result.

Vote for each position here:
https://www.606v2.com/t38819-greatest-round-2-choose-your-15#1753473
https://www.606v2.com/t38887-greatest-round-2-choose-your-11-14
https://www.606v2.com/t38898-greatest-round-2-choose-your-13
https://www.606v2.com/t38921-greatest-round-2-choose-your-12
https://www.606v2.com/t38949-greatest-round-2-choose-your-10
https://www.606v2.com/t38974-greatest-round-2-choose-your-9
https://www.606v2.com/t39002-greatest-round-2-choose-your-8
https://www.606v2.com/t39104-greatest-round-2-choose-your-7
https://www.606v2.com/t39143-greatest-round-2-choose-your-6
https://www.606v2.com/t39533-greatest-round-2-choose-your-4-and-5
https://www.606v2.com/t39632-greatest-round-2-choose-your-3
https://www.606v2.com/t39932-greatest-round-2-choose-your-2
https://www.606v2.com/t40571-greatest-round-2-choose-your-1

How we got to each shortlist in the first place:
https://www.606v2.com/t38631-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-1-shirt#1745446
https://www.606v2.com/t38632-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-2-shirt#1745455
https://www.606v2.com/t38633-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-3-shirt#1745464
https://www.606v2.com/t38634-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-4-5-shirts
https://www.606v2.com/t38635-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-6-shirt#1745502
https://www.606v2.com/t38636-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-7-shirt#1745507
https://www.606v2.com/t38637-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-8-shirt
https://www.606v2.com/t38647-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-9-shirt
https://www.606v2.com/t38665-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-10-shirt
https://www.606v2.com/t38666-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-12-shirt#1747109
https://www.606v2.com/t38667-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-13-shirt
https://www.606v2.com/t38669-the-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-11-14-shirts#1747119
https://www.606v2.com/t38670-greatest-round-1-shortlist-for-the-15-shirt-voting-ends-23-12-12

Rules and context here:
https://www.606v2.com/t38622-the-greatest-introduction-the-rules

Interesting that England can only offer half a back, but provides fully half the pack. Including two players who aren't even in their preferred positions.

10 man rugby, here we come.

The unpardonable sin of vdW instead of Edwards aside, the backs look pretty sound to me. I'm not wild about the front row, but then again, I wasn't that wild about a lot of the absentees from the candidates' list, so it can't be helped. Pretty good, on the whole.

What about players like Colin Meads, Naas Botha, Chris Bridges, Paul Thorburn, Paul Arnold, Kevin Phillips.

As some people seem not to know, I have added the voting threads from which the shortlisted players were chosen.

All done pursuant to the wisdom of the fine posters on these boards, Gboycottnut.

I am merely the conduit through whom the molten bronze droplets of genius flows.

gboycottnut wrote:What about players like Colin Meads, Naas Botha, Chris Bridges, Paul Thorburn, Paul Arnold, Kevin Phillips.

geez that list tailed off quickly...who is bridges?


funnily enough I agree with the side completely. SA miss out in a few of the pack positions purely because those there are streets above even their own second best countrymen- Eales, Johnson, Hill, fitzy...

Matfield vs Eales is a dilemma but for me Eales was more of a problem for us on many occasions in the late 90's, early 00's, our worst pro era.

I would probably prefer Burger over Hill as a 6 but Hill gets a lot of support in the NH.

Poorfour wrote:Interesting that England can only offer half a back, but provides fully half the pack. Including two players who aren't even in their preferred positions.

10 man rugby, here we come.

Even more interesting is the fact that the country that exports more forwards than any other has only one contender.

What a joke.

Not a single player from earlier than the late nineteen eighties.

maestegmafia wrote:Not a single player from earlier than the late nineteen eighties.

Mighty mouse was earlier...

but still six that played in the late 80's

and only two playing today- DC and Roncero...just.

Like every thing else a matter of opinion a backrow without McCaw?a Lock without Meads,a front row without Kevin Skinner?half a dozen 9`s would start before Weisthuizen.Edwards,Connor,Catchpole to name 3.Zinny over Wayne Shelford that`s flash over graft..My Backrow would be McCaw at 6 or 7,Kel Tremain at 8,Micheal Jones at 6 or 7 .Josh Kronfeld would have to be available to cover Sundays.Bob Scott could do everything Cullen could do only better!!!!

I actually could go along with most of that team...obviously there will be debates about positions...but im just not sure about the front row...

Roncero over Oz du Rant??
Leonard is a big English fan favorite...but was he the greatest ever? Im not convinced...even at club level i had the privelage of witnessing the force that was Carl Hayman..and that was a serious force...

I cant stand David Campese...but thats a personal feeling affecting my judgement of a player ( who i appreciate was an excellent player)

I like that back row mind...

Oh and of all the Greatest Ever 15 threads ive seen on here the one constant that never changes is......

12 Horan
13 Sella

That says something.....

Taylorman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Not a single player from earlier than the late nineteen eighties.

Mighty mouse was earlier...

but still six that played in the late 80's

and only two playing today- DC and Roncero...just.

Mighty Mouse, Ian McLauchlan isn't in the team.

Back row without McCaw is fair enough, since Jones was (narrowly) a better all-round 7 than Richie and Hill's claims to pre-eminence at 6 are by no means exclusively championed by the NH. McCaw would be in my 23, of course, but I don't see him as nailed on to start.

Emack, you list a fair few good players whom you would like to see here, but not all of them in their true positions. Tremain at 8, where he basically never played for the All Blacks? Number 8 is a specialised position and a vital one - think Brooke offers greater variety than Shelford, myself, whom I would only select in preference to Zinny if we were playing Mars in foul weather and Mars had selected most of the French pack of the 1970s. Hard as nails and a real leader, but not a better all-round rugby player, old Buck.

Can see why a South African might bemoan a few absences, although I still think that they got a bit lucky with vdW. Schmidt would have been my hooker - he was a man ahead of his time, I thought, and would have been propped by Cotton at 1 and Price or possibly Paparemborde on the tight head in this team. Leonard was a loosehead for most of his life. Gerber would have laid down a serious challenge to Horan at 12 in my book - interested to see that men as different as Martin Johnson and Bill McLaren selected Danie for their all-time XVs and I must say that I tend to agree with them. Fabulous talent.

At full-back, the absence from the discussion of Blanco, with Latham preferred, is quite hard to understand. Think that Cullen was a fine choice, but Blanco offered something completely different from any 15 I've ever watched. I suspect that the average age on these boards is a good bit younger than mine, so the nod to players of the past two decades is easy enough to understand. With that caveat, as I said, this is going to be a pretty good XV, one way or another.

maestegmafia wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Not a single player from earlier than the late nineteen eighties.

Mighty mouse was earlier...

but still six that played in the late 80's

and only two playing today- DC and Roncero...just.

Mighty Mouse, Ian McLauchlan isn't in the team.

Maes - he might be, if you vote him in. The votes were tied when I last looked as I only put the loosehead thread up yesterday.

George Carlin wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Not a single player from earlier than the late nineteen eighties.

Mighty mouse was earlier...

but still six that played in the late 80's

and only two playing today- DC and Roncero...just.

Mighty Mouse, Ian McLauchlan isn't in the team.

Maes - he might be, if you vote him in. The votes were tied when I last looked as I only put the loosehead thread up yesterday.

George I've voted on all positions, admirable job you've done mate.

My point earlier was that the average age of this board means that a huge amount of more worthy candidates are not included due to members of this site only having been rugby fans in the last couple of decades.

That said I am with Biltong, amazed Bakies or Matfirld didn't get in...???

Think the average South African would probably want Frik du Preez in the side ahead of Matfield, and certainly Bakkies, Maesteg. In my experience Bok supporters have a greater sense of rugby history than any others that I've met.

Think lock is just about the biggest coin flip of all. I went with Meads and Eales in the end, but don't see how Johnson, Matfield, du Preez, McBride or a few others could have been wrong either.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Think the average South African would probably want Frik du Preez in the side ahead of Matfield, and certainly Bakkies, Maesteg. In my experience Bok supporters have a greater sense of rugby history than any others that I've met.

Think lock is just about the biggest coin flip of all. I went with Meads and Eales in the end, but don't see how Johnson, Matfield, du Preez, McBride or a few others could have been wrong either.

I would say we in Wales all have a good memory for those players past. Maybe feel too much on it. But we have had some fantastic players.

maestegmafia wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Not a single player from earlier than the late nineteen eighties.

Mighty mouse was earlier...

but still six that played in the late 80's

and only two playing today- DC and Roncero...just.

Mighty Mouse, Ian McLauchlan isn't in the team.

1. Rodrico Roncero (Argentina)/Ian McLauchlan (Scotland) /Os du Randt (South Africa) (votes currently tied)

oh...i must be seeing things...

Kel Tremain played when I saw him in the the Great 1963-4 backrow with John Graham and Waka Nathan.He packed down at 8 on the AllBlacks
put in alternating with John Graham.On the othersides put in he packed at 7 or right flank .All Blacks packed right/left in those days the role of 7 in the 50/60`s/the late 80`s /90s and today arecompletely different which makes
these sort of posts irrelevant.BUT I tell you this Tremain was THE best player in a 7 shirt i`ve seen bar NONE in 60 years of watching rugby.
That he played in an era when the AB`s played tight/loose forwards and to be a seagull was a SIN.That he did indeed carry out the roles of a Number 8 at Scrum and Lineout for a lot of his career even if wearing 7

Taylorman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Not a single player from earlier than the late nineteen eighties.

Mighty mouse was earlier...

but still six that played in the late 80's

and only two playing today- DC and Roncero...just.

Mighty Mouse, Ian McLauchlan isn't in the team.

1. Rodrico Roncero (Argentina)/Ian McLauchlan (Scotland) /Os du Randt (South Africa) (votes currently tied)

oh...i must be seeing things...

My eyesight must be worse than i thought, need new reading glasses.