Stokes and Coles sent home.

Ben stokes and Matt Coles have been sent homes from the England Lions tour of Australia for persistent late night drinking and ignoring warnings.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/605612.html


Major blot on their copybooks or something that'll soon blow over?

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Ben stokes and Matt Coles have been sent homes from the England Lions tour of Australia for persistent late night drinking and ignoring warnings.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/605612.html


Major blot on their copybooks or something that'll soon blow over?

Don't know what all the fuss is about. Ian Botham during his England career I'm sure regularly indulged in such late night drinking, particularly with members of the opposition team.

Professionalism within the England camp has increased drastically

Professionalism is all the rage now, when Swann misbehaved on a tour of South Africa it took him 8 years to be recalled!

Will be a major blot, for slightly different reasons:

Two years ago most would have said Stokes would be a key part of the England team by now. But he's fast heading to the unfulfilled pile. Injuries have been a problem, but he's also had previous disciplinary issues and was arrested last summer. He's now probably a long way from England's short-term thinking.

I don't know of any previous issues with Coles, but in many ways he has done well to get on the tour. Far from putting his hand up for a go in the team, he'll now have slid down the pecking order too.

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Obviously the culture was different 30 years ago and a lot has been done to change things. However, its probably an exaggeration to say Botham and co got p*ssed with the opposition in the middle of Test matches/ when management didn't want them to that often. Its all about doing things at the right time - within reason I'm sure the England team would encourage their players to have fun at the appropriate time even now.

Shelsey93 wrote:Will be a major blot, for slightly different reasons:

Two years ago most would have said Stokes would be a key part of the England team by now. But he's fast heading to the unfulfilled pile. Injuries have been a problem, but he's also had previous disciplinary issues and was arrested last summer. He's now probably a long way from England's short-term thinking.

I don't know of any previous issues with Coles, but in many ways he has done well to get on the tour. Far from putting his hand up for a go in the team, he'll now have slid down the pecking order too.

----

Obviously the culture was different 30 years ago and a lot has been done to change things. However, its probably an exaggeration to say Botham and co got p*ssed with the opposition in the middle of Test matches/ when management didn't want them to that often. Its all about doing things at the right time - within reason I'm sure the England team would encourage their players to have fun at the appropriate time even now.

Well the players in Botham's day actually did drink with the opposition during the middle of test matches whereby at the end of the day's play players from both sides used to mingle socially and drink together.

Major blot for mine, although comparisons with Swann not totally exact as the latter was not so much dropped because of touring misdimeanors but rather an overall attitude problem (the feeling was he was arrogant and unwilling to learn).

This appears to be a case of major stupidity and irresponsibility from young players, and alongside the tragic death of Maynard last year for me raises a serious issue about the environment of the county championship and in particular its effect on young players.

Nobody expects all players to be teetotal for a whole tour (perhaps we should, but IMO it is unreasonable and counterproductive). Even for a week-long tour in my experience, although alcohol the day before a game is of course strictly forbidden.

However there is a major difference between a quiet drink, and going on a bender. This IMO can't happen anymore in the modern professional environment on tour - it has too much of a knock-on onto performances (Australia in 2005 arguably never recovered from the Symonds fiasco). To do it not once, but at least 3 times (there will have been an informal warning before the official written one) is so stupid it beggars belief. And left the management with little choice. Beyond the sheer stupidity, it belies a poor attitude which is perhaps the greatest cause of concern.

Coles and Stokes are both talented cricketers, and I'm a great believer in 2nd chances. I do hope they learn from this, and work all the harder to get back into the fray.

Duty281 wrote:Professionalism is all the rage now, when Swann misbehaved on a tour of South Africa it took him 8 years to be recalled!

Then a few years later he got p1ssed up and tried to rescue a cat.

Yep. I don't think Swann was so much a drink issue. But he was picked as a junior tourist and didn't demonstrate the right attitude towards that role (i.e. should have been trying to learn from the senior players, rather than playing the 'joker').

Having said that the initial reason he was left out was probably as much that Giles/ Tufnell/ Croft still had a few years left in them, and Fletcher was happy to use one of them as a holding spinner as part of his plan.

Perhaps Swann ought to have got a go ahead of Monty post-Giles though, and I think memories of that tour of SA probably put Fletcher and Vaughan off initially.