Italy vs Wales Match Thread

[maestegmafia]

First topic message reminder :

SIX NATIONS: ITALY V WALES
Venue: Stadio Olimpico, Rome Date: Saturday 23 February Kick-off: 14:30 GMT
Coverage: Watch live on BBC One Wales, BBC One HD, Red Button and online; listen on BBC Radio Wales & online and BBC Radio Cymru; live text commentary on BBC Sport website; watch again on BBC iPlayer; highlights on Sunday's Scrum V

Wales team to face Italy:

Leigh Halfpenny. Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, George North, Dan Biggar, Mike Phillips; Gethin Jenkins, Richard Hibbard, Adam Jones, Andrew Coombs, Ian Evans, Ryan Jones (captain), Justin Tipuric, Toby Faletau

Replacements: Ken Owens, Paul James, Craig Mitchell, Alun Wyn Jones, Sam Warburton, Lloyd Williams, James Hook, Scott Williams.



Italian Team to Face Wales:

Andrea Masi (Wasps); Giovanbattista Venditti (Zebre), Tommaso Benvenuti (Treviso), Gonzalo Canale (La Rochelle), Luke McLean (Treviso); Kristopher Burton (Treviso), Edoardo Gori (Treviso); Andrea Lo Cicero (Racing Metro), Leonardo Ghiraldini (Treviso), Martin Castrogiovanni (Leicester, capt), Antonio Pavanello (Treviso), Francesco Minto (Treviso), Alessandro Zanni (Treviso), Simone Favaro (Treviso), Manoa Vosawai (Treviso).
Replacements: Davide Giazzon (Zebre), Alberto De Marchi (Treviso), Lorenzo Cittadini (Treviso), Quentin Geldenhuys (Zebre), Paul Derbyshire (Treviso), Tobias Botes (Treviso), Luciano Orquera (Zebre), Gonzalo Garcia (Zebre).

[wales606]

Cas, with regards to playing styles we didn't have much choice in these past two games, and it's worked for us.

Not much choice??? We have the biggest and one of the fastest backlines in international rugby!

But we never throw them a pass, unless we're so far behind that the players abandon the gameplan.

Shambles.

When we tried to use them in the first half, Roberts knocked on 3 times in a row!

It was once. After 32 mins! Poor sod was so surprised someone had thrown him the ball.

Once from the over the top lineout (which I can forgive), then once from a pass, then once from a run

[Casartelli]

Because that isn't the gameplan in tight games, which the weather can dictate (such as today). That style was also a must-do in France and it payed off. We need new halfbacks (or a form Priestland) to play the favoured type of game.

BTW, have you not noticed that the Ospreys, Scarlets (against certain teams) and the U20s all play the same style as Wales?

Against good teams it isn't enough. We caught a freestyle selectioned France on the hop. Ireland annihilated us. In rugby terms we haven't moved on from the AIs, we're just played a weak Italy today.

[100%beefy]

Most dismal game of international rugby ever played.

Wales weren't as awful as Italy and won, so the dwindling fanbase will be happy and BBC Wales will film another annoying advert, but this bishbosh rubbish isn't going to be enough against Scotland and England will crush us in Cardiff if we play like this.

Yes I agree we cannot beat England by playing route 1 unless our pack can dominate which i don't see happening. Their territorial game, defence, line speed and tempo is far superior. I really think we need to start playing an offload game again or at least have the flexibility to use it and Hook may offer more in attack than Boggar. There is a place for Byrne at his best but he is nowhere near as quick as he was. The biggest problem Wales have is their consistently awful lineout

[wales606]

I can't believe people are STILL calling for Hook to start over Biggar.

Biggar passing set up both Cuthbert tries this tournament, and his kicking created Norths.

Biggar's running game was very good again today, as was his passing and kicking.

Hook did absolutely nothing other than give away a penalty in his 15 minutes on the pitch.

[Knowsit17]

Good win, albeit could have been much better but I'm pretty contented. Could have looked to cut loose in the final quarter and scored another try or two once the game was won, all the more confidence going to Murrayfield. But Wales were composed throughout and won comfortably, can't complain too much.

[bedfordwelsh]

606,

I have never understood why people have called for Hook let alone just now. If he is as good as everyone says he is then he would have cemented his place in the side now and not become the utility player he is.

[mystiroakey]

a wins a wins a win. and its two on the spin!!

if you can get 3 your gonna be very confident arnt ya!!

[bedfordwelsh]

a wins a wins a win. and its two on the spin!!

if you can get 3 your gonna be very confident arnt ya!!

mysti,

After our shocking 1st half against Ireland I honestly thought we wpuld get the whitewash let alone the spoon, from that performance its a good tournament at mo.

[mystiroakey]

yeah you should be happy enough..

[bedfordwelsh]

Obviously another two weeks away yet and with players (I imagine) returning to the Regions next week anyone predict any changes for the Scotland game.

Did Warburton and AWJ do enough to start today, Coombs was quiet for the most but has had 2 top notch games before that.

Was taking Jones off a sign that Warburton and Tipuric is Howleys fancy with Faletau at No8?

[Guest]

Only 1 week away now Bedford: Scotland. Then home to Eng.

[wales606]

Obviously another two weeks away yet and with players (I imagine) returning to the Regions next week anyone predict any changes for the Scotland game.

Did Warburton and AWJ do enough to start today, Coombs was quiet for the most but has had 2 top notch games before that.

Was taking Jones off a sign that Warburton and Tipuric is Howleys fancy with Faletau at No8?

Same team, but with AWJ starting for Coombes. Roberts doesn't deserve his place, but there is nobody else to challenge really.

[bedfordwelsh]

Only 1 week away now Bedford: Scotland. Then home to Eng.

Griff,

Its 2 isn't not playing Scotland til 9th then England 16th

[bedfordwelsh]

[quote="wales606"]

Same team, but with AWJ starting for Coombes. Roberts doesn't deserve his place, but there is nobody else to challenge really.

So its not the same team then Welsh

[gavstar]

gethin and biggar really stood out today. work from gethin awsome. biggars total involvement and also reading of the game positional play excellent.

high kicks not my choice, but favoured by biggar , halfp and mp, so obviously tactical.as was the grubbers and chips by them last week.

thought mp overdid the boxies, starved biggar and midfield when there were a few chances, admittedly not clear ones, but something could have been on.

still not keen on cuthbert, and jd has gone backwards. also, roberts had a bang on his head in the irish game...... he hasn't recovered yet!!!!!!!

and hook, well, bambi stepping, holding on, turnover. he may play 10 in france but he was out of positon for at least half the time he was on the field.........or was it the rest of the team not him? as will be reported by w.mail hooky fan club, dear oh lord, its about time they put that one to bed now.

[Guest]

Only 1 week away now Bedford: Scotland. Then home to Eng.

Griff,

Its 2 isn't not playing Scotland til 9th then England 16th

Sorry, thought you meant two away games to come!

[bedfordwelsh]

Only 1 week away now Bedford: Scotland. Then home to Eng.

Griff,

Its 2 isn't not playing Scotland til 9th then England 16th

Sorry, thought you meant two away games to come!

Consider yourself forgiven Griff

[flyhalffactory]

I can't believe people are STILL calling for Hook to start over Biggar.

Biggar passing set up both Cuthbert tries this tournament, and his kicking created Norths.

Biggar's running game was very good again today, as was his passing and kicking.

Hook did absolutely nothing other than give away a penalty in his 15 minutes on the pitch.

100% agree mate

Unfortunately you have certain bandwagon posters on here who don't actually watch the game, but just like lemmings regurgitate what they hear from the masses. Biggar is the one who is currently much more attack minded (of the two) but thankfully in a controlled way, aware enough to know when to run, kick, or pass.

And he rarely gets flustered, runs into "no mans land" and gets turned over, miss-passes or gives away a pen (which Hook did in all the 10 mins he was on for). I was one who wouldn't have minded Hook starting this 6Ns campaign as first choice 10 but it was abundantly clear why Howley is loath to use him.

[thebluesmancometh]

Hang on though, just like the world cup semi throwing Hook into a game already won, and with a different and lesser 9, not to mention changing your best players on the park, before totally emptying the bench is hardly a good judge of where James Hook is!!!

Lets not pretend Hooks showing was on an even kiel to Biggars, I'm not saying Biggar isn't the form 10, or that Hook should start but lets look at things in perspective!!

[Morgannwg]

Biggar isn't a great 10. His style of play however, is the Ospreys way, which is also the Wales way right now. It doesn't notch up many tries but it's effective when you have our forward pack. Biggar is however, a far better outhalf than Hook. Hook will have thankfully disapeared by this time next season with Patchell, Williams and Priestland in the fray.

[flyhalffactory]

Hang on though, just like the world cup semi throwing Hook into a game already won, and with a different and lesser 9, not to mention changing your best players on the park, before totally emptying the bench is hardly a good judge of where James Hook is!!!

Lets not pretend Hooks showing was on an even kiel to Biggars, I'm not saying Biggar isn't the form 10, or that Hook should start but lets look at things in perspective!!

I would say the perspective is this

1. Hook has close on a decade of international rugby, and is now playing high level regular rugby in the flyhalf channel, i.e. experienced enough to make an impact even tho it was only for 12 mins
2. The game was more or less won, the Italians were dejected during the last ten mins and not a patch on the side that took France apart
3. Wales had just scored their second try, so they were on a high and Italy beaten........ and the floodgates should have opened
4. Hook was coming on to make it clear he was the man who should have the 10 shirt, so had to show what he could do under these circumstances

5. In the twelve mins that remained, he was too conservative, showing little inovation, he slipped a pass to "no-one, gave a pen away, and was turned over

Can you imagine the welsh public uproar if Patchel, Priestland or Steffan Jones performed like that with a game that was already won, I would have loved any of those three to have come on for you guys and bet my cadburys creme egg they would have made an impact

Whilst Biggar (when he was on) took the brunt of the initial Azurri onslaught with apparent ease, defence was very good, made some decent tackles, made great yardage to get back and tap tackle Tommaso Benvenuti (ok illegally but so what he did it), and he made the second try

In my mind thats the perspective of what Hook achieved for Wales this weekend

[thebluesmancometh]

What Hook acheived for Wales was quite clear, a player who was seen as given a few minutes for the sake of giving him time by a coach who was happy to empty the bench to give gametime for the sake of giving the whole bench gametime.

Lets not pretend Hook has been given chance after chance like RP has been, he has been used to plug gaps for 3/4 seasons and is once again on the bench as utitlity cover. It must be extremely difficult to get motivated for Wales games when you know the only reason you sit on the bench is because you can cover numerous positions!

I'm not saying Hook should start, and I was extremely disapointed with him not coming on and throwing the sink at Italy, but he is one extremely difficult position knowing he has no future with Wales, isn't regarded as anything other than usefull cover, and is now plugging gaps until the next batch take over running up to 2015!!

[Casartelli]

Biggar had an excellent game. He was solid, showed enthusiasm in chasing his own kicks and winning back the ball, threw some decent passes and didn't do anything wrong.

Hook was brought on, despite Biggar's performance, didn't have the protection of Phillips and Roberts either side of him, and looked like he wasn't sure why he was there. If Howley wanted the game closed out then surely he would have left Biggar on? If he was going for points, thinking of the 6N table, then he left it a bit late. Hook threw two perfect, flat, passes for team mates to run onto (haven't seen that tried by anyone in a Welsh shirt since 2008), bombed two huge kicks downfield, and run round in a circle for a bit (possibly chasing points, or maybe just being Hook).

Not sure how you could possibly compare and contrast Biggar and Hook - they were on the pitch for hugely different lengths of time, with different people around them and presumably following different orders. It would be interesting to know why Howley made the switch, but otherwise the whole point is rather moot.

Biggar is a good player, much better than Priestland, fits the limited gameplan and looks like being first choice for the foreseeable. Hook remains utility cover for as long as Gatland/Howley are involved.

Onwards to Murrayfield.

[Dontheman]

Fly

Rees in for who? Owens made another impact, and Hibbard tackled his gonads off!!

bluesman
I would say Rees on the bench and Owens to start, unless I am wrong (missed about 10 mins at end of first half, and 10 mins of start of second) Hibbard missed what 3 out first 5 throw-ins. I think Jenkins, Owens, Jones is a better balance in the scrum, and whilst I assumed Hibbard has been brought in for his accuracy in the line-out and his agression in the loose-play I didnt see any real evidence today.


Italy could have had a bit more out of those poor throw-ins in the first 10 mins if luck went their way

What's with the throw over the line out? to Roberts? Is that legal?

[gavstar]

last time i looked at the stats , hook has had 19 starts as fly half, and 13 off the bench as fly half. 32 total ,all told he has had over 60 caps, and is still not first choice 10,

the rate at which biggar is developing in this welsh team is excellent. yes he follows orders, but if he didnt he would be out.

lets start giving the guy credit ( i've always said he would make it) only 3 6 nations games hes played in his career.

if hook had created the platform for jds try after chasing his own kick, or chipped to the corner for north in france, we would never hear the end of it.

AT LAST there was no call from the pundits, the press on sunday, or todays 'hooky' western mail , for hook to replace biggar.

you get the odd comment highlighting the charge down in biggars first ever 6ns game v ireland , but thats it. . strangely quiet. mmmmm you sometimes wonder if people would rather lose with hook playing than win with biggar !!!!

as i have said before, this is not a popularity contest, this is picking the right player to play the way the team are told to play.......... biggar (apart from samoa before going off injured) has not been involved in any of the loses wales had before the 6ns.

he came in to a fragile environment, team crying for a win, as was shown in the first half whole team panic performance against ireland.

he hasnt done it on his own, but not having played these 6ns sides before, he has certainly been instrumental in galvanising this group of experienced players . he has shown us a much improved, mature player.

fans may want a different way of playing, until the plan changes we can only comment on what the players are doing now.

well done dan biggar

[wales606]

last time i looked at the stats , hook has had 19 starts as fly half, and 13 off the bench as fly half. 32 total ,all told he has had over 60 caps, and is still not first choice 10,

the rate at which biggar is developing in this welsh team is excellent. yes he follows orders, but if he didnt he would be out.

lets start giving the guy credit ( i've always said he would make it) only 3 6 nations games hes played in his career.

if hook had created the platform for jds try after chasing his own kick, or chipped to the corner for north in france, we would never hear the end of it.

AT LAST there was no call from the pundits, the press on sunday, or todays 'hooky' western mail , for hook to replace biggar.

you get the odd comment highlighting the charge down in biggars first ever 6ns game v ireland , but thats it. . strangely quiet. mmmmm you sometimes wonder if people would rather lose with hook playing than win with biggar !!!!

as i have said before, this is not a popularity contest, this is picking the right player to play the way the team are told to play.......... biggar (apart from samoa before going off injured) has not been involved in any of the loses wales had before the 6ns.

he came in to a fragile environment, team crying for a win, as was shown in the first half whole team panic performance against ireland.

he hasnt done it on his own, but not having played these 6ns sides before, he has certainly been instrumental in galvanising this group of experienced players . he has shown us a much improved, mature player.

fans may want a different way of playing, until the plan changes we can only comment on what the players are doing now.

well done dan biggar

Completely agree

[bedfordwelsh]

last time i looked at the stats , hook has had 19 starts as fly half, and 13 off the bench as fly half. 32 total ,all told he has had over 60 caps, and is still not first choice 10,

the rate at which biggar is developing in this welsh team is excellent. yes he follows orders, but if he didnt he would be out.

lets start giving the guy credit ( i've always said he would make it) only 3 6 nations games hes played in his career.

if hook had created the platform for jds try after chasing his own kick, or chipped to the corner for north in france, we would never hear the end of it.

AT LAST there was no call from the pundits, the press on sunday, or todays 'hooky' western mail , for hook to replace biggar.

you get the odd comment highlighting the charge down in biggars first ever 6ns game v ireland , but thats it. . strangely quiet. mmmmm you sometimes wonder if people would rather lose with hook playing than win with biggar !!!!

as i have said before, this is not a popularity contest, this is picking the right player to play the way the team are told to play.......... biggar (apart from samoa before going off injured) has not been involved in any of the loses wales had before the 6ns.

he came in to a fragile environment, team crying for a win, as was shown in the first half whole team panic performance against ireland.

he hasnt done it on his own, but not having played these 6ns sides before, he has certainly been instrumental in galvanising this group of experienced players . he has shown us a much improved, mature player.

fans may want a different way of playing, until the plan changes we can only comment on what the players are doing now.

well done dan biggar

Completely agree

If a guy hasn't established himself after 60 odd caps then maybe he's not as good as people think he is

[glamorganalun]

Obviously another two weeks away yet and with players (I imagine) returning to the Regions next week anyone predict any changes for the Scotland game.

Did Warburton and AWJ do enough to start today, Coombs was quiet for the most but has had 2 top notch games before that.

Was taking Jones off a sign that Warburton and Tipuric is Howleys fancy with Faletau at No8?

Bedford, I concluded the same as you, it does not matter how good Jones played, Howley has probably been told (by Gatland) to put Sam on ready for the next game whether he deserves to or not, even out of position. If this happens I find it worrying, we could throw the game away with a weaker back row just like the first game against Ireland.

[gavstar]

MAYBE they won't put sam on to start INCASE he has a mediocre game, and is then taken off. If you are on the bench when you are not performing to expectation it goes in your favour.

coming on when the job has been done usually makes the bench players look good, and gives them less playing time for their performance to be subjected to as much scrutiny as a player who has been on from the start.

of course , in this instance , we are assuming job done means we are well up and winning. as the saying goes, never assume................

[RubyGuby]

Biggar had a very good game and his defensive work is the best I've seeen from a welsh 10 in many years - With that said these posts are a litle harsh on Hook who was given little opportunity to do anything on the weekend

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