About v2Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
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Galted
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Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by sachin_federer Thu 21 Feb 2013, 9:34 am
I would like to start a discussion on who is the worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone of 500 wickets, 400 wickets, 300 wickets, etc.
Worst bowler to take 700 wickets: Between Warne and Murali, it has to be Murali?
Worst bowler to take 600 wickets: Between Warne and Murali, and Kumble, it has to be Kumble.
Worst bowler to take 500 wickets: It has to be Kumble or Walsh. Still Kumble?
Worst bowler to take 400 wickets: It has to be Harbhajan Singh.
Worst bowler to take 300 wickets: I would go for Vettori (average 34, SR: 70).
Worst bowler to take 200 wickets: It gets trickier because the pool gets larger. But I will go for Sobers.
Worst bowler to take 700 wickets: Between Warne and Murali, it has to be Murali?
Worst bowler to take 600 wickets: Between Warne and Murali, and Kumble, it has to be Kumble.
Worst bowler to take 500 wickets: It has to be Kumble or Walsh. Still Kumble?
Worst bowler to take 400 wickets: It has to be Harbhajan Singh.
Worst bowler to take 300 wickets: I would go for Vettori (average 34, SR: 70).
Worst bowler to take 200 wickets: It gets trickier because the pool gets larger. But I will go for Sobers.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Shelsey93 Thu 21 Feb 2013, 9:56 am
Interesting discussion.
Harbhajan is certainly the weakest of those to take 400 wkts. I might argue Ntini for 300 - probably reflects his relative longevity as a fast bowler more than his overall ability.
200 is a wider pool - Mitchell Johnson?
Harbhajan is certainly the weakest of those to take 400 wkts. I might argue Ntini for 300 - probably reflects his relative longevity as a fast bowler more than his overall ability.
200 is a wider pool - Mitchell Johnson?
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Stella Thu 21 Feb 2013, 10:10 am
200 is a difficult one but I like your choices so far.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by sachin_federer Thu 21 Feb 2013, 10:16 am
Shelsey93 wrote:Interesting discussion.
Harbhajan is certainly the weakest of those to take 400 wkts. I might argue Ntini for 300 - probably reflects his relative longevity as a fast bowler more than his overall ability.
200 is a wider pool - Mitchell Johnson?
I think both Ntini and Johnson have decent averages and strike rates. Ntini has strike rate below 55 which is quite good and average is 29 which is decent and much better than Vettori's.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Biltong Thu 21 Feb 2013, 10:23 am
I think Shelsey is taking the Mickey out of us.
Top 5 worst strike rate to 300 wickets.
L Gibbs 87.7
Daniel Vettori 79.6
Harbhajan Singh 68.1
Chaminda Vaas 66
Kumble 65.9
Top 5 worst average to 300 wickets
Vettori 34.42
Singh 32.27
Brett Lee 30.81
Kapil Dev 29.64
Vaas 29.58
Ntini nowhere near the worst.
Top 5 worst strike rate to 300 wickets.
L Gibbs 87.7
Daniel Vettori 79.6
Harbhajan Singh 68.1
Chaminda Vaas 66
Kumble 65.9
Top 5 worst average to 300 wickets
Vettori 34.42
Singh 32.27
Brett Lee 30.81
Kapil Dev 29.64
Vaas 29.58
Ntini nowhere near the worst.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by gboycottnut Thu 21 Feb 2013, 10:28 am
Indian medium pacer Paras Mhambrey who toured England with the India national squad in 1996 has to be the worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone. His 2 measly wickets V England at an average of 74 with a strike rate of 129, makes the bowling figures of Mitchell Johnson look like those of an all-time great bowler.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Shelsey93 Thu 21 Feb 2013, 10:39 am
Ha. I think Vettori has been a superb servant to NZ though, and that as a spinner his ave. would always be expected to be higher.
Vaas had to bowl in SL, and was expert at it.
Gibbs' exploits have been well covered on the Hall of Fame thread.
Vaas had to bowl in SL, and was expert at it.
Gibbs' exploits have been well covered on the Hall of Fame thread.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by sachin_federer Thu 21 Feb 2013, 10:43 am
gboycottnut wrote:Indian medium pacer Paras Mhambrey who toured England with the India national squad in 1996 has to be the worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone. His 2 measly wickets V England at an average of 74 with a strike rate of 129, makes the bowling figures of Mitchell Johnson look like those of an all-time great bowler.
You could make a good case for Ravi Bopara. He has reached the milestone of 1 wicket at an average of 290
and a strike rate of 434 , and he is supposed to be an all-rounder 
.Worst bowler to have reached the milestone of 20 wickets should go to another Englishman Ian salisbury. He has taken 20 wickets at an average of 77 and strike rate of 125.
I think Carl Hooper is the worst bowler to have reached the milestone of 100 wickets. His average is 49 and SR is 121
.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by gboycottnut Thu 21 Feb 2013, 10:44 am
Shelsey93 wrote:Ha. I think Vettori has been a superb servant to NZ though, and that as a spinner his ave. would always be expected to be higher.
Vaas had to bowl in SL, and was expert at it.
Gibbs' exploits have been well covered on the Hall of Fame thread.
What about NZ's greatest number 11 batsman Chris Martin. 233 test wickets at average of 33 with a strike rate of 60.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by gboycottnut Thu 21 Feb 2013, 10:48 am
sachin_federer wrote:gboycottnut wrote:Indian medium pacer Paras Mhambrey who toured England with the India national squad in 1996 has to be the worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone. His 2 measly wickets V England at an average of 74 with a strike rate of 129, makes the bowling figures of Mitchell Johnson look like those of an all-time great bowler.
You could make a good case for Ravi Bopara. He has reached the milestone of 1 wicket at an average of 290
Worst bowler to have reached the milestone of 20 wickets should go to another Englishman Ian salisbury. He has taken 20 wickets at an average of 77 and strike rate of 125.
I think Carl Hooper is the worst bowler to have reached the milestone of 100 wickets. His average is 49 and SR is 121
But Bopara is not classified officially as a specialist bowler and neither is Hooper. As for Ian Salisbury, he was a very good bowler in test cricket at the start V Pakistan in 1992. But this fell away after bad man-management from the selectors and the England coaches at that time Keith Fletcher and latter Bumble Lloyd.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Hoggy_Bear Thu 21 Feb 2013, 12:33 pm
sachin_federer wrote:.
Worst bowler to take 200 wickets: It gets trickier because the pool gets larger. But I will go for Sobers.
Danish kaneria?
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by ShankyCricket Thu 21 Feb 2013, 7:52 pm
Has Barbie reached 200 wickets yet?
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Corporalhumblebucket Thu 21 Feb 2013, 9:32 pm
Worst batsman to average over 99 in test cricket? The choice is unanimous. 
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Leff Fri 22 Feb 2013, 12:50 am
Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Worst batsman to average over 99 in test cricket? The choice is unanimous.
Andy Ganteaume among the retired and Abul Hassan among the current players.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Leff Fri 22 Feb 2013, 12:53 am
sachin_federer wrote: Worst bowler to take 200 wickets: It gets trickier because the pool gets larger. But I will go for Sobers.
Post removed - we attack the post, not the poster - Biltong
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Corporalhumblebucket Fri 22 Feb 2013, 8:17 pm
Leff wrote:Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Worst batsman to average over 99 in test cricket? The choice is unanimous.
Andy Ganteaume among the retired and Abul Hassan among the current players.
I was taking it as read that entry requirements was more than one innings....
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by KO-KING Sat 23 Feb 2013, 4:29 pm
sachin_federer wrote:I would like to start a discussion on who is the worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone of 500 wickets, 400 wickets, 300 wickets, etc.
Worst bowler to take 700 wickets: Between Warne and Murali, it has to be Murali?
Worst bowler to take 600 wickets: Between Warne and Murali, and Kumble, it has to be Kumble.
Worst bowler to take 500 wickets: It has to be Kumble or Walsh. Still Kumble?
Worst bowler to take 400 wickets: It has to be Harbhajan Singh.
Worst bowler to take 300 wickets: I would go for Vettori (average 34, SR: 70).
Worst bowler to take 200 wickets: It gets trickier because the pool gets larger. But I will go for Sobers.
Murali>Warne, shane as good as he was was not murali, Murali had Vaas, warne had mcgrath, lee, gillespie...
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by KO-KING Sat 23 Feb 2013, 4:31 pm
abul has 2, averages 120 - This generations donCorporalhumblebucket wrote:Leff wrote:Corporalhumblebucket wrote:Worst batsman to average over 99 in test cricket? The choice is unanimous.
Andy Ganteaume among the retired and Abul Hassan among the current players.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Galted Sat 23 Feb 2013, 5:17 pm
KO-KING wrote:sachin_federer wrote:I would like to start a discussion on who is the worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone of 500 wickets, 400 wickets, 300 wickets, etc.
Worst bowler to take 700 wickets: Between Warne and Murali, it has to be Murali?
Worst bowler to take 600 wickets: Between Warne and Murali, and Kumble, it has to be Kumble.
Worst bowler to take 500 wickets: It has to be Kumble or Walsh. Still Kumble?
Worst bowler to take 400 wickets: It has to be Harbhajan Singh.
Worst bowler to take 300 wickets: I would go for Vettori (average 34, SR: 70).
Worst bowler to take 200 wickets: It gets trickier because the pool gets larger. But I will go for Sobers.
Murali>Warne, shane as good as he was was not murali, Murali had Vaas, warne had mcgrath, lee, gillespie...
That's exactly what makes Warne>Murali, Murali didn't have too many other bowlers threatening to take wickets whereas Warne had less scope for big hauls.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Corporalhumblebucket Sat 23 Feb 2013, 10:43 pm
KO-KING wrote: abul has 2, averages 120 - This generations don
After one test de Plessis had an average of 188 (2 innings, of which 1 not out). But his average is tumbling. Down to "only" 75 after 6 tests. There's only way too for Abul - excellent batsman tho he may be....
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by KO-KING Tue 26 Feb 2013, 11:14 pm
Corporalhumblebucket wrote:KO-KING wrote: abul has 2, averages 120 - This generations don
he might not get selected again
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by KO-KING Tue 26 Feb 2013, 11:17 pm
Galted wrote:KO-KING wrote:sachin_federer wrote:I would like to start a discussion on who is the worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone of 500 wickets, 400 wickets, 300 wickets, etc.
Worst bowler to take 700 wickets: Between Warne and Murali, it has to be Murali?
Worst bowler to take 600 wickets: Between Warne and Murali, and Kumble, it has to be Kumble.
Worst bowler to take 500 wickets: It has to be Kumble or Walsh. Still Kumble?
Worst bowler to take 400 wickets: It has to be Harbhajan Singh.
Worst bowler to take 300 wickets: I would go for Vettori (average 34, SR: 70).
Worst bowler to take 200 wickets: It gets trickier because the pool gets larger. But I will go for Sobers.
Murali>Warne, shane as good as he was was not murali, Murali had Vaas, warne had mcgrath, lee, gillespie...
That's exactly what makes Warne>Murali, Murali didn't have too many other bowlers threatening to take wickets whereas Warne had less scope for big hauls.
that is so stupid, I wonder what a spinner prefers, coming into bowl at 120-1, or 120-3. Australian bowlers softened batsmen up and set them up over and over again, no one who actually watched more than a dozen games of both men can argue logically against, your argument is warne is a better player because he could bowl with other greats and didnt have to carry the attack by himself
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Galted Wed 27 Feb 2013, 7:20 am
KO-KING wrote:Galted wrote:KO-KING wrote:sachin_federer wrote:I would like to start a discussion on who is the worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone of 500 wickets, 400 wickets, 300 wickets, etc.
Worst bowler to take 700 wickets: Between Warne and Murali, it has to be Murali?
Worst bowler to take 600 wickets: Between Warne and Murali, and Kumble, it has to be Kumble.
Worst bowler to take 500 wickets: It has to be Kumble or Walsh. Still Kumble?
Worst bowler to take 400 wickets: It has to be Harbhajan Singh.
Worst bowler to take 300 wickets: I would go for Vettori (average 34, SR: 70).
Worst bowler to take 200 wickets: It gets trickier because the pool gets larger. But I will go for Sobers.
Murali>Warne, shane as good as he was was not murali, Murali had Vaas, warne had mcgrath, lee, gillespie...
That's exactly what makes Warne>Murali, Murali didn't have too many other bowlers threatening to take wickets whereas Warne had less scope for big hauls.
that is so stupid, I wonder what a spinner prefers, coming into bowl at 120-1, or 120-3. Australian bowlers softened batsmen up and set them up over and over again, no one who actually watched more than a dozen games of both men can argue logically against, your argument is warne is a better player because he could bowl with other greats and didnt have to carry the attack by himself
You haven't actually made any point in the above sentence, it's just abstract waffle & supposition (unless of course you are Warne or Murali in which case I apologise).
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by FerN Wed 27 Feb 2013, 7:40 am
I'll agree with Ko-King here.
If you have the best bowling attack then it means that when you start bowling as a spinner the best batsmen will generally be out already. You will also get a chance to bowl at the tail enders quicker so your average and strike rate should be higher.
But that is not the case with Warne and Murali. Murali has the better S/R and average and he had to bowl towards the top order more than Warne had to.
Murali has a better average and strike rate against all teams bar Pakistan than Warne.
I can't really can't see why you would say Warne was better than Murali.
If you have the best bowling attack then it means that when you start bowling as a spinner the best batsmen will generally be out already. You will also get a chance to bowl at the tail enders quicker so your average and strike rate should be higher.
But that is not the case with Warne and Murali. Murali has the better S/R and average and he had to bowl towards the top order more than Warne had to.
Murali has a better average and strike rate against all teams bar Pakistan than Warne.
I can't really can't see why you would say Warne was better than Murali.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Galted Wed 27 Feb 2013, 7:59 am
Because Warne bowled less on wickets tailored for him and he didn't throw the ball.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Pal Joey Wed 27 Feb 2013, 8:38 am
Galted wrote:Because Warne bowled less on wickets tailored for him and he didn't throw the ball.
Took the words right outta my mouth.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by FerN Wed 27 Feb 2013, 9:13 am
Galted wrote:Because Warne bowled less on wickets tailored for him and he didn't throw the ball.
There is a clip on cricinfo where he bowls in a brace and he was fine.
Edit: And his record in most continents are also better than Warne's.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by kingraf Wed 27 Feb 2013, 9:43 am
Leg-spin is the toughest art in all of sport. Therefore Warne> Murali. Also Murali had a larger amount of wicket to take. You dont average 6+ wickets a match at a S/R of 55+ unless the guys at the other end are as effective as shooting a water gun at a shark.
Also, it is true that Murali had pitches tailored for him Imagine if Warne was playing on SCG-esque pitches for all five tests in an Ashes, he would have gobbled them up.
Also, it is true that Murali had pitches tailored for him Imagine if Warne was playing on SCG-esque pitches for all five tests in an Ashes, he would have gobbled them up.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by Stella Wed 27 Feb 2013, 10:18 am
kingraf wrote:Leg-spin is the toughest art in all of sport. Therefore Warne> Murali. Also Murali had a larger amount of wicket to take. You dont average 6+ wickets a match at a S/R of 55+ unless the guys at the other end are as effective as shooting a water gun at a shark.
Also, it is true that Murali had pitches tailored for him Imagine if Warne was playing on SCG-esque pitches for all five tests in an Ashes, he would have gobbled them up.
Batsmen would often play defensive against Murali, as they could score against the so called water shooters. This would give him a higher strike rate, as they didn't take many chances. This also helps his average of course.
Both have pro's and con's and similar stats. It's just down to your own judgement, and mine tell me Murali>Warne.
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Re: Worst bowler to reach a wicket milestone
by VTR Wed 27 Feb 2013, 1:01 pm
FerN wrote:Galted wrote:Because Warne bowled less on wickets tailored for him and he didn't throw the ball.
There is a clip on cricinfo where he bowls in a brace and he was fine.
Edit: And his record in most continents are also better than Warne's.
This isn't great evidence as he would have been able to prepare for it. How do we know he bowled the same as in a match? Also would like to see the same test after bowling say 20 overs in the innings when his action would inevitably become a bit less smooth through fatigue.
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