Your top ten Brits ever

As it is a Friday and a little bit quiet on here thought I’d revisit an oft repeated topic and ask for everyone’s top ten British fighters. I know the subject has been done countless times in the past but we have a good number of new members since last we visited the subject so why not go through it again. I’ll get the ball rolling with my nominees.

1 Jimmy Wilde
2 Ted Kid Lewis
3 Lennox Lewis
4 Joe Calzaghe
5 Freddie Welsh
6 Jim Driscoll
7 Owen Moran
8 Ken Buchanan
9 Jack Kid Berg
10 Naseem Hamed

To avoid turning this into a debate about nationalism and whether being born in a stable constitutes being equine I have excluded both Fitzsimmons and McLarnin from this debate.

I'd be tempted to have Buchanan slightly higher Rowley, above Moran at least.

Would also like to find space for Turpin. Perhaps at the expense of Hamed.

Honeyghan and Conteh also in contention for me, but generally a solid list.

Cheers Gent, can see the argument for Buchanan above Moran, the world title obviously stands him in good stead. Think it was the fact Moran held himself on near level terms with Attell across their numerous battles that tipped him just above as I tend to rate Attell a little better than many but the difference is cigarette paper thin so you’d hear no wailing from me was anyone to see it differently.

Hamed is something of a sentimental pick for me. Do rate Conteh but wanted to find a reason to have Naz in and think the fact he established himself as top dog in the division which John never managed was the clincher. To be honest the one guy who nearly did and arguably should have knocked Naz out of the top ten was Benny Lynch who may have been a little hard done to on my part.

You've got Canadians in the list as well.........

1. Fitzsimmons
2. Calzaghe

1) Jimmy Wilde
2) Ted 'Kid' Lewis
3) Lennox Lewis
4) Ken Buchanan
5) Freddie Welsh
6) Jack 'Kid' Berg
7) Joe Calzaghe
8) Naseem Hamed
9) Jim Driscoll
10) Owen Moran

I'm a little less sure these days that 'Kid' Lewis can edge out Lennox, but don't feel comfortable swapping them around until I've given it proper consideration. Buchanan still edges out Welsh as Britain's best ever Lightweight for me and, perhaps controversially for some, I'd have Naz marginally ahead of 'Peerless' as Britain's best ever Featherweight. Dare I say it, Hamed is still perhaps a touch underrated.

I personally think Welsh is a little under rated Chris, definitely benefitted greatly from the no decision rule at the tail end of his career, but think I am right in saying Freddie has beaten more hall of famers than any other Brit and whilst he was not always easy on the eye was undoubtedly one of, if not the top dog in a fiercely competitive era for the lightweight division. Also only stopped once and that was to the great Benny Leonard, a fine fighter and worthy of his top five berth which I'm glad to see you agree on.

The old Fitz.....Lewis argument again............

One guy represents another Country..and one guy is called the Cornishman...

Why people don't embrace Fitz is beyond me...

As for the list I'll admit I know nothing of the names on it........But notice it's full of old timers again!!

Yeah, I tend to think that Welsh has to command a pretty high rank on these lists and I can understand why you'd plump for him ahead of Buchanan when it comes to the Lightweights from these shores, Jeff. Shouldn't be forgotten that Welsh scored a victory (albeit a Newspaper Decision, but a pretty emphatic ones) over Benny as well. Granted, Leonard was a young pup at the time but it was only a year or so before he began his exception title reign at Lightweight.

Wilde and Lewis for top spot. I'd imagine Fitzimmons, Calzaghe and Buchanan after those two.

Rowley doesn't think Fitz is British..

No Johnny Nelson?

Really? Come on, we need all the help we can get!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Rowley doesn't think Fitz is British..

I have no strong opinions on the matter Truss, I excluded him to avoid the type of argument you seem hell bent on having anyway!

My top 10 would be....

Lewis
Hamed
Fitz
Hunnygan
Bucchanon
Kid Lewis
Kid Berg
Benn
Eubanks
Ashley

Ricky Hatton was in the top five pound for pound list.........

Interesting to see how many of the above would have been regarded in the top 5 fighters in the World at their peak.......

Disclaimer.... that Chris, rowley and Haz and probably even ONETWO in Lady form.... know more about Brit Boxing than me..

Shame the Captain can't comment about Buchanan's position..

Not hell-bent on anything....just pointing out inconsistencies..

How does Froch stack up against Naz?

Do:

Dirrell
Pascal
Taylor
Bute
Abraham
Johnson

Stack up better against:

Soto
McCullough
Kelly
Vazquez
Bungu
Ingle

You'd have to suggest they do, don't they?

Do losses against Kessler and Ward stack against Froch though????????

i'd have Naz higher......He also made a bigger impression on the World scene.

Well, the Kessler defeat was close, the Ward defeat a lot wider.

Naz has that comprehensive outmanning against him from Barrera.

Froch faced everyone from his era (save Calzaghe, who he just missed, not for want of trying).

Naz missed Marquez and Morales.

Interesting debate. Hatton, too, is difficult to separate from these two for me.

There is not too much in it to be honest Haz, think you could favour Froch on the grounds that they came pretty much back to back which is mightly impressive and largely unprecedented. The main reasons I have Naz above him is Naz' wins were enough to establish himself as the man at the division a position he held for a good couple of years and Naz also did not throw into the mix a loss to a good but not great fighter of the likes of Kessler.

Am a huge fan of the Cobra but for all his acheivements and wins he is yet to establish himself as top man at his weight and in brutal reality until May 25th is arguable he has proven his credentials to be considered number two beyond argument.

Good points. I'd have all three ahead of Benn and Eubank.

Think you're being harsh.........The fact he fought Barrera shows he was willing to fight the best....

We need to take what's on the record when summing up not fights that didn't happen through no fault of the fighter!!

Kessler for me isn't in the same league as Barrera.............

Two defeats to one......similar ledgers....

Boom boom was a quality fighter........and better for me than anybody Froch's beat.

You can also add Johnson and Medina to Hamed's victims, Haz, another two fine wins on his record, particularly Johnson.

Froch's opposition hasn't been that far behind but it's the way that Hamed dealt with his opponents which gives him a distinct edge over Froch right now. Up until losing to Barrera he'd cut through the Featherweight division without any of the seriously close shaves that Froch had against Taylor and Dirrell, for instance. He was beyond any doubt the best man in his weight class for quite a while whereas Froch hasn't quite managed that.

Hamed should really have been top five - and maybe even top three - with his talent and the fantastically successful career he had up until the age of twenty-seven; he had a superb base to build on even after losing to Barrera. But he just disappeared from the game when the chance to make that kind of history was still very much there.

I'd like to know how ONETWO has Honeyghan at 4..........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'd like to know how ONETWO has Honeyghan at 4..........

More interested in how Eubanks is at 9, having both father and son in does not seem fair.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Think you're being harsh.........The fact he fought Barrera shows he was willing to fight the best....

We need to take what's on the record when summing up not fights that didn't happen through no fault of the fighter!!

Kessler for me isn't in the same league as Barrera.............

Two defeats to one......similar ledgers....

Boom boom was a quality fighter........and better for me than anybody Froch's beat.

Johnson was a top operator but he was shopworn by the time Naz got him. Medina, there's on I missed. He was quality.

I guess if Froch can top Kessler, his argument strengthens somewhat.

Trouble with Naz is that he regressed from the Robinson win onwards. He was magic that night but looked awful a lot of the time against the likes of Medina, McCullough, Soto, Ingle, Sanchez, Barrera.

Chris I disagree that Hamed had great talent..............

He had a punch and great reflexes........Nothing in the way of good boxing skills really.......However it was enough to have a tremendous career but he overachieved not underachieved.....

Routinely hitting off the wrong foot..routinely leaving himself off balance (Kelley fight was awful) and against a tight defenced patient Marco he was outclassed....

Great offensively but not a great talent.............Not a great boxer though.

Think you're being harsh.........The fact he fought Barrera shows he was willing to fight the best....

To be fair, Naz took the Barrera fight because his people believed that the first fight with Morales had taken everything out of him. Barrera's comeback after that fight was a turgid affair and they couldn't wait to sign for it. Manny started having second thoughts when he saw Barrera fighting Jesus Salud but the fight had already been made.

Yeah -- Barrera was a collossal underdog in that fight.

I disagree, Truss. I think Hamed had freakish talent and natural gifts, albeit they were unconventional. Roy, even at his best, regularly crossed his feet, threw shots while off balance, used nothing but reflexes to evade punches etc, but surely you wouldn't say he was lacking in talent as well would you?

There are different types of talent and, while I agree that Hamed was lacking fundamentals or that his style wasn't built around them, I believe he was hugely talented all the same.

I find it hard to class him as an overachiever because, no matter what happened against Barrera, there was still so much more he so obviously could have done, given his age and what had gone before.

Yeah -- Barrera was a collossal underdog in that fight.

Barrera's excellent reputation was enhanced even more post-Morales (the Sun seemed to think that this unknown Barrera was going to make a name for himself if he beat Hamed) but Manny Steward admitted that if he'd known Barrera still had the tools in his locker that he'd shown against Salud, he'd never have agreed to the fight with Naz

Barrera was a super bantamweight at that point also. He was seen as being too small for Naz.

Much as I love a Naz discussion, lets be having your list off you Haz.

Not sure there was much more he could have done because he was a CONFIDENCE fighter..........

The ego was shattered..

Calzaghe is No 1. His win over BHop cements his place. Pity he wasn't fighting on a weekly basis against local Welsh coal miners.

I'd probably go:

1. Lennox Lewis
2. Jimmy Wilde
3. Bob Fitzimmons
4. Joe Calzaghe
5. Ken Buchanan
6. Kid Lewis
7. Freddie Welsh
8. Jim Driscoll
9. Kid Berg
10. Benny Lynch

But I have to admit I'm hopeless with the old timers (and so have probably done them a disservice no doubt).

Lennox Lewis............Controversial Haz.........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote: Lennox Lewis............Controversial Haz.........

How could having a Canadian top of the pile be anything but controversial?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote: Lennox Lewis............Controversial Haz.........

Yes. I'm going to become the self-styled Broner of these boards.

Yo.

I've converted you at last...

Better than the self-styled Boner

hazharrison wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote: Lennox Lewis............Controversial Haz.........

Yes. I'm going to become the self-styled Broner of these boards.

Yo.

Can I be the bloke that follows you round and brushes your hair?

Haz we seem to share the same philosophy of what we can see fight with our eyes we rate higher...............

Rowley wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote: Lennox Lewis............Controversial Haz.........

Yes. I'm going to become the self-styled Broner of these boards.

Yo.

Can I be the bloke that follows you round and brushes your hair?

Yeah, champs. I'll need a rapper though, to just shout stuff loudly as I type.

Jeff's got the same names as would be in my top 10, albeit in a slightly different order. Welsh 4, Buchanan 5, Calzaghe 6, Berg 8 and Driscoll 9 for me, with the rest as he places them.

A top 20 would add Lynch, Froch, Conteh, Honeyghan, Turpin, Hatton, Benn & Eubank (tied), Watt and Peter Kane, probably in that order.

Good to see you back cap.

Thanks, az. Never away, really.

Rowley wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'd like to know how ONETWO has Honeyghan at 4..........

More interested in how Eubanks is at 9, having both father and son in does not seem fair.

...and is that Mike Ashley he has at 10?

superflyweight wrote:

Rowley wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'd like to know how ONETWO has Honeyghan at 4..........

More interested in how Eubanks is at 9, having both father and son in does not seem fair.

...and is that Mike Ashley he has at 10?

No its Crawford Ashley actually.

Great British boxer. Gave Nunn nightmares even tho he lost that fight.

Can't say I ever thought Ashley was particularly great, didn't really set himself aside as the best british light heavyweight let alone as a force on the world stage.

I had assumed it was Crawford, onetwo. Odd choice - particularly when you've left out a much superior light heavy in Conteh.