Brits who need to wisen up

There are some really good all-Brit fights to be made at the moment. Some can wait IMO, such as Quigg v Frampton, as both are on course to meet further down the line for bigger money, but some of our Brits need to realize what their worth is and take the right challenge.

Firstly, Amir Khan. Someone needs to sit him down and explain that he is not some superstar whose name Brook shalt not speak. Khan has lost several fights now, been sparked twice and looks broken to some degree. He is not ready for any of the elite at 140 and to be honest, this star pulling power he seems to think he has isn't there. Go up to 147, take a warm up and fight Brook in a huge all British battle that would sell out one of the Sheffield stadiums and generate both fighters millions.

The British (and Irish) Middleweights. Guys, you have all lost in your world title challenges. Macklin, yes you performed well versus Martinez, but you were KO'd. Lee, you seem to realize that after your Chavez Jr loss you are best of taking on the Brits for good money in a 4-way tourney. Murray, great performance v Martinez, and I think you see sense. Barker, by all means take on Chavez, but again, you were KO'd by Martinez and will likely lose to jr as there is no way you can stop him. GGG may finish Macklin at world level, he will certainly stop him, so here's hoping these guys see sense and let Hearn put on a 4 man tourney with SKY once they are all free.

Tyson Fury. Time to decide what you want. You wont get Vitali as he is going to retire. And it is obvious that Wlad would kill you. You're not going to be the best heavyweight out there, not any time soon, so why not take huge money and fight Haye. Neitehr of you are better than Wlad, a nd again this would sell out a footy stadium and generate at leat 5 million each.

Bellew. Either come out swinging or shut up. Simple.

Cleverly. Fight a meaningful fight. Why on earth do you need another tune up. Your entire career is a tune up. A unification with Bhop would trump Bhop's mandatory, but failing that fight Shumenov. If it isn't Bhop, Shumenov or Brahmer then it is a joke.

Disagree about Amir Khan.............Anybody who goes PPv before title status has a huge following...........No doubt mainly of Asian extraction but it's a huge market...

Make no mistake If Khan fights Brook............

It's the Khan name that sells it..............

Murray has certainly put a damp squib over Macklin and Barker's worth and performances for sure.

Fury is just a talentless idiot..

Wouldn't a Cleverly fight with the winner of Pascal and Bute be a worth while alternative to the three you named? There is also Cloud and Dawson. I thought his next fight had to be Brahmer as the fan boys were shouting about back to back mandatories forgetting that he had already ignored these in the past.

The middleweights is interesting. Seems like a harp back to Benn Eubank and Watson which, although very interesting to us Brits, had very little relevance on the world stage. I'm not saying your wrong on your take, however, and it would be a great way to make some decent money for these lads while not setting themselves up as cannon fodder.

Cleverly vs Bute is sadism at it's worst..........

Can't take a decent 168 shot.

Tell me which heavyweight is better than Wald?

If I wish for it, surely is masochism!

Sorry, Az, but that is a bit random even for you. Can you explain, please?

Fury says he wants k2. Why criticise him for that. Nothing is obvious in hw boxing. Ask price.

Most of the punters who rang into BoxNation after the Khan fight were staunch supporters of Amir.

Again, I need enlightening. Are you saying that Fury deserves his chance at Wlad? "Fury says he wants k2. Why criticise him for that." or that he just isn't good enough? "Tell me which heavyweight is better than Wald?". I am really not having a go, just trying to get to the point you are making.

azania wrote:Fury says he wants k2. Why criticise him for that. Nothing is obvious in hw boxing. Ask price.

You believe him do you...............Boxers always mean what they say.

Spot on Sean,

Cleverly (or his people) is setting himself up to fail. Since he won (given) the WBO title his hunger is gone and looks more and more poor in each fight. There's nothing worse than a young fighter/champion say "I will fight better than I have when I get better opponents" - as much as I like Cleverly, his Father needs to go and he needs a real fight against a Top 10 ranked LHW again.

Bellew, yes he's fighting regularly and against decent opposition, but his excuses and point blank refusal to listen/watch his previous performances is shocking. He hasn't fought a "masterclass", he talks too much of his power and needs to keep quiet and show what he's capable of instead of forever promising.

Fury is someone who amazes me... He lacks a lot of the skill Price has, never really looks "right" in the ring, BUT he has so far always come away with the Win, is entertaining to an extent and has a fairly decent following in the US. He's batpoo bonkers but there's an endearing quality about him.

Brook and Barker are two frustrating guys to follow, although people tout Frankie Gavin as the biggest waste of talent in all of British boxing history (he's not!!!) - these pair have careers that stall more often than my ex girlfriend in her Clio... I don't want to hear you bad mouthing a guy for an injury before a fight and then cry when you get one yourself! Stay active by calling someone in and fight on a damned undercard whilst you wait for the other guy to recover!

Amir is a guy who (and I hope I'm wrong) looks like he's gone too far, too quick. Only 2 years ago, the kid wanted to clear up the 140 division and move to face Mayweather... last week he almost got stopped by a (very good, but limited!) lightweight. Khan get's a lot of stick, but I am a fan of him, his fights are generally very entertaining... but I'm fearful that at this early stage in his career he has tried to do too much and rushed his career. If his next fight looks like another attritious affair then he's done.

The Khan point is a good one. Rather than hoping for a Mayweather fight, he should possibly direct his attention toward facing Kell Brook. That would do big business in Sheffield (Brook has been packing them in down there).

Khan's problem is that he needs to fight in a cagy, counter-punching style in order to protect his chin, but he's naturally incliined to go forward. Even when Diaz hurt him he kept coming at him. Rarely does he relax and try to jab from outer ring. It's always...jab......right-left-right-left...get tagged. Wastes so much motion in there, too.

The other point about the middleweights is equally valid.

When Benn-Eubank-Collins-Watson all faced each other there was an argument that they were hampering each other's chances at world level (through knocking lumps off one another).

Macklin-Barker and Murray have chosen the other route and have all come up a tad short against Sturm and Martinez. Would they have been better off facing one another in domestic clashes? It's an interesting one.

I'm interested in why you think Khan's problem is being rushed...............

Had he been held back he'd have Broner and Burns to deal with.........

Also If you can tell me what is different to Khan now than when he started I'd like to know..........All the training and experience he's attained and he's got the same frailties now as then...........

Would fighting ten stiffs more before Kotelnik have changed anything???

Khan is Khan..................end of...........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

azania wrote:Fury says he wants k2. Why criticise him for that. Nothing is obvious in hw boxing. Ask price.

You believe him do you...............Boxers always mean what they say.

A boxer who doesn't believe in himself may as well retire.

bhb001 wrote:Again, I need enlightening. Are you saying that Fury deserves his chance at Wlad? "Fury says he wants k2. Why criticise him for that." or that he just isn't good enough? "Tell me which heavyweight is better than Wald?". I am really not having a go, just trying to get to the point you are making.

That he shouldn't be thinking of k2.

Cheers Az. I agree that he shouldn't be thinking in these terms and so a serious money fight against Haye may be an excellent option for him. He'll never get that sort of money fighting K2 as anything other than a mandatory.

bhb001 wrote:Wouldn't a Cleverly fight with the winner of Pascal and Bute be a worth while alternative to the three you named? There is also Cloud and Dawson. I thought his next fight had to be Brahmer as the fan boys were shouting about back to back mandatories forgetting that he had already ignored these in the past.

The middleweights is interesting. Seems like a harp back to Benn Eubank and Watson which, although very interesting to us Brits, had very little relevance on the world stage. I'm not saying your wrong on your take, however, and it would be a great way to make some decent money for these lads while not setting themselves up as cannon fodder.

absolutely, but I don't believe for a second Clev is brave enough to fight Pascal or Dawson, so I didn't mention them

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Cleverly vs Bute is sadism at it's worst..........

Can't take a decent 168 shot.

Clev doesn't have a decent 168 punch, maybe 135

School Project wrote:Spot on Sean,

Cleverly (or his people) is setting himself up to fail. Since he won (given) the WBO title his hunger is gone and looks more and more poor in each fight. There's nothing worse than a young fighter/champion say "I will fight better than I have when I get better opponents" - as much as I like Cleverly, his Father needs to go and he needs a real fight against a Top 10 ranked LHW again.

Bellew, yes he's fighting regularly and against decent opposition, but his excuses and point blank refusal to listen/watch his previous performances is shocking. He hasn't fought a "masterclass", he talks too much of his power and needs to keep quiet and show what he's capable of instead of forever promising.

Fury is someone who amazes me... He lacks a lot of the skill Price has, never really looks "right" in the ring, BUT he has so far always come away with the Win, is entertaining to an extent and has a fairly decent following in the US. He's batpoo bonkers but there's an endearing quality about him.

Brook and Barker are two frustrating guys to follow, although people tout Frankie Gavin as the biggest waste of talent in all of British boxing history (he's not!!!) - these pair have careers that stall more often than my ex girlfriend in her Clio... I don't want to hear you bad mouthing a guy for an injury before a fight and then cry when you get one yourself! Stay active by calling someone in and fight on a damned undercard whilst you wait for the other guy to recover!

Amir is a guy who (and I hope I'm wrong) looks like he's gone too far, too quick. Only 2 years ago, the kid wanted to clear up the 140 division and move to face Mayweather... last week he almost got stopped by a (very good, but limited!) lightweight. Khan get's a lot of stick, but I am a fan of him, his fights are generally very entertaining... but I'm fearful that at this early stage in his career he has tried to do too much and rushed his career. If his next fight looks like another attritious affair then he's done.

good points, mate. Khan is shot already, IMO. That punch resistence coupled with his uncertainty over his style is a dangerous mix

I'm not sure what Brook has done to show he's on the same level as Khan? He's never won a world title, or even fought for one. Khan has two world straps to his name and has done big shows in America several times. I'm not saying that he shouldn't fight Brook, or that Brook isn't good enough, but it's clear that one has been operating at a higher level than the other.

I don't think Khan is as popular as some (Truss/Az) on here make out.

A lad posted a pic on Twitter from his fight the other night (I think it was to Hatton regarding how much better the atmos/turn out in BA was) showing acres and acres of empty seats in the arena for Khan's 'comeback' fight of sorts. And that's with an undercard including Brit Olympian Ogogo's debut and Harry Khan's also.

The star power of Khan has been exaggerated but he is a half decent draw compared to the average world champ as he has been in a lot of fights. That said it's not like he brings legions of fans wherever he goes. He does't draw lots of viewers and his fights against Garcia, Judah, Molina and Diaz weren't great success'

He is still talking about mayweather. I think he's either punch drunk or just stupid. He's at the lowest point of his career and is still looking beyond his next opponent, hence why diaz almost stopped him. Brook has a strong UK fanbase and does very good numbers on sky. He against Khan would sell, big, but it would be more interesting if brook has a title and Khan has avenged some defeats. The problem is, if Khan loses again (or brook loses a title fight0 the demand for it will soon go

The middleweights have excuse, just get it out of the way. They have all failed at world level and will probabaly again in there next fights against GGG and JCC jr. Macklin may be on the end of a drubbing against GGG but if he has enough after all will be the same age and all at the same level

Fury's afool who doesn't want no part of wlad, haye or beforehand price. He's happy to trash talk his rivals but cant back it upwhen they accept hjis challenge

How can a guy who's PPv before he wins a title..........have his appeal exaggerated..

Even Oscar had to wait post-title.

bhb001 wrote:Cheers Az. I agree that he shouldn't be thinking in these terms and so a serious money fight against Haye may be an excellent option for him. He'll never get that sort of money fighting K2 as anything other than a mandatory.

Well he could fight that Canadian who beat Areola. Vitali won't be there for long. If he wins he has effectively won the lottery.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:How can a guy who's PPv before he wins a title..........have his appeal exaggerated..

Even Oscar had to wait post-title.

I think the point is that it's waned slightly since then, and even then may have been big enough for Brit PPV but still didn't (and certainly now doesn't, based on last weekend) turn into massive ticket sales.

Can we all agree that he's definitely bigger than Brook?

Yep!

Weren't the PPV figures for Khan-Prescott, Khan-McKlosky, Khan-Judah all flops though. Plus he's yet to appear on PPV in the states and he doesn't do great numbers

150,000 buys for Khan-Mcloskey..

Is that good or bad?

Seems good for a pony fight, but bad compared what a real top PPV event does.

I thought they were closer to 50k but hey ho. I'm not saying that he isn't a decent draw, but he thinks that he's some mega star and he's not

Khan-McClosky left a sour taste to those who bought it, and Judah-Kah didn't do great numbers when Khan was at the pinnacle if his career

Right now, he has been beaten twice with one of which being devastating and he looks as poor as ever (against Diaz). One more defeat and people wont want to keep forking out money to see him getting beat.

Where has he said that he is a megastar?

TopHat24/7 wrote:Is that good or bad?

Seems good for a pony fight, but bad compared what a real top PPV event does.

Shouldn't really reply to this guy............If you can get 150,000 to pay to see a fighter then it shows he has a following of note...After all Mcloskey was an unknown..and a stinker.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Is that good or bad?

Seems good for a pony fight, but bad compared what a real top PPV event does.

Shouldn't really reply to this guy............If you can get 150,000 to pay to see a fighter then it shows he has a following of note...After all Mcloskey was an unknown..and a stinker.

Don't see why you need to be such a Tinkywinky about it. Was a simple question. 150k PPV buys but still can't sell out a small arena, suggests his following isn't that notworthy to me....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:How can a guy who's PPv before he wins a title..........have his appeal exaggerated..

Even Oscar had to wait post-title.

Stars can fade, Truss. KO's and losses and time in America can cause a star to fade. So can mediocre opposition like Khan's last two fights.

Seanusarrilius wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:How can a guy who's PPv before he wins a title..........have his appeal exaggerated..

Even Oscar had to wait post-title.

Stars can fade, Truss. KO's and losses and time in America can cause a star to fade. So can mediocre opposition like Khan's last two fights.

Absense makes the heart grow fonder.

azania wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:How can a guy who's PPv before he wins a title..........have his appeal exaggerated..

Even Oscar had to wait post-title.

Stars can fade, Truss. KO's and losses and time in America can cause a star to fade. So can mediocre opposition like Khan's last two fights.

Absense makes the heart grow fonder.

I think you mean absynth makes the heart grow fonder

Khan is doing the right thing. Get back to winning ways, taking a few tune up fights before getting back in with the best around LWW/WW. He is gradually moving up in weight and working with a new trainer.

Nothing wrong with Khan's rebuilding job that I can see. Its Kell Brook that needs to have a word with himself. I know he has been unfortunate with injuries (both his own and Alexanders), but he is in danger of becoming a forgotten man. Still without a large fan base, and I cant remember seeing a single impressive name on his cv (might be wrong on that though). He and Khan are both about the same age and have had nearly the same number of fights, but their careers are not comparable.

Khan is an Olympian though who was rushed forward in his career whereas Brook has always seem to be in his shadow, at least under warren who promoted them both. He saw $$$ when he saw Khan and somewhat ignored Kell

I also don't seem to see any problems with his fanbase. Obviously in America he's unknown, how many Brits/European's who aren't hardcore boxing fans know about fighters like Berto etc, but he has sold out big venue's in Sheffield several times against less than spectacular opposition so they were obviously there to see him. He also, if I'm still correct as Bute-Froch might have overtaken him, has drawn in the biggest viewers on Sky Sports than any other for his bout against Hatton

I also can't see how you can blame him for injuries, it happens and its unfortunate but at his age and with no damage on his body then he should recover well and move on. The welterweight division is stacked with lots of good exciting fighters and plenty of opportunities. Fighters like Lopez (who's fighting Maidana), or a selcuk Aydin or Soto Karass are fights that will get him back on track

Im not blaming him for his injuries. My point is that he has been unlucky recently, but he should have been a lot further along by now.

Fury gets a right going over on here for fighting nobodies so far in his career, but Brook seems to get a free pass for doing the same (over a longer time span). Hes been constantly touted as the next big thing for years now, and Im a bit tired of it. He needs to move onwards and upwards. To be fair he is looking to do that since joining matchroom, and he was genuinely unlucky with the Alexander mess.

Fury gets a good going over for saying stupid things like the K brothers are running scared of him. If Fury was building his career I would have no problem with him fighting at UK and European level. But don't claim to be somewhere you obviously aren't.

Fury is building his career. He is also saying stupid things to try and get people talking and watching him. Im pretty sure he acknowledges that most of the things he comes out with are tongue in cheek/garbage.

Brook has been building his career at UK/Euro level for ten years now, and counting.

joeyjojo618 wrote:Im not blaming him for his injuries. My point is that he has been unlucky recently, but he should have been a lot further along by now.

Fury gets a right going over on here for fighting nobodies so far in his career, but Brook seems to get a free pass for doing the same (over a longer time span). Hes been constantly touted as the next big thing for years now, and Im a bit tired of it. He needs to move onwards and upwards. To be fair he is looking to do that since joining matchroom, and he was genuinely unlucky with the Alexander mess.

Still don't get the point. He doesnt get a free pass but everyone knows that he was wasted under Warren and was never really challenged because of Warren. But as you said he's being brought along nicely by Hearn and is at world level now and would have fought alexander by now had injuries not happened. So once again I can't see how he needs to have a word with himself as he has bee doing everything right, why do you think he left warren in the first place. Not everyone needs to be a champion at 24 and Brook has plenty of time left in his career

Hes not proved that hes at world level yet. And he wasted too much time early in his career. Thats exactly my point.

You can lay the blame at Warrens feet, thats fine. I hope you give Cleverly the same benefit of the doubt though, I know a lot of people on here dont.

I was referring to the fact you think he needs to have a word with himself about his career, no he doesn't. He already did that when he was at warren and now Hearn has (had) positioned him for a world title fight after selling out arena's by himself

Clev wasn't being let down by warren at domestic level like Brook, he is being let down by him at world level. That makes it worse as he IS a world champion and has should have the power to try and convince frank of getting him better opposition. Domestic fighters need promoters as they haven't the pulling power to dictate terms whereas world level fighters can. Brook left warren and clev didn't, so he only has himself to blame for staying with a promoters who hasn't delivered

So you are arguing with my choice of words? Fair enough, it wasnt a good phrase to use. I will rephrase. Kell Brook has wasted a long time and still hasnt proven that he is a world level operator yet. Ten years at Euro/Uk level.

Clev 'should have more power convincing Frank of getting him better opposition?' Dont know where you got that from. Why exactly should he have more power? Warren is in charge because he has a contract with Clev, and that doesnt change when you pick up a belt. Brook was out of contract when he left Warren (if I remember correctly), hence he could leave.

Great post, these guys need to get on with it.

Well that's different from what you said originally. What it sounded like you were saying was that Kell's career, at this point of his career not the warren era, wasn't the proper direction he shold be going meaning he may have to make a change, hence have a 'word', which I found hard to understand and as he was on the brink of a title shot and had down nothing wrong under Hearn

His career has been disappointing but he is trying his best to change and move on and is still a young 27 who hasn't had a world title but can still sell out a 12000 seater in Sheffield

What I meant about Clev is that as a world champion he can voice his concerns and Frank would be more likely please him then he would a domestic level fighter. Frank doesn't want a world champion leaving his stable, but he can live with a domestic fighter leaving. For example, if Liam Smith and Clev both go to warren and say that they armed happy with their opposition and if its not changed they will leave, who do you think he's going to try and please more

I said in my original post here that he has been unlucky with his injuries recently, and subsequently said he is moving in the right direction. 'Having a word' is just my way of saying his career is annoying me with how slowly its going.

If I were Warren and Clev came up to me and demanded a fight with Dawson else hes leaving me, I would do everything in my power to convince him to fight another stiff. Warren knows Clev gets pancaked by the top guys, loses his belt and a lot of marketability and money. He is more likely to accommodate the guy with less to lose.