MONDAY NIGHT RAW (NO SPOILERS INCLUDED...THREAD TO BEGIN DISCUSSION)

[owen10ozzy]

EXCELLENT RAW!!

Show's that when the writers want to they can pull it out of the bag...now just find some consistency. Now I am buzzing for Wrestlemania!!

[gaffer_reborn]

totally agree, very good Raw.

anyone think team Ziggy could capture all the gold at mania? tag titles, AJ divas title and Ziggy cash in on WHC?

This is the first time i have bought in to the wwe title match, they are hinting again at cena heel turn, but i just cant see it happening!!!

[JamesLincs]

is the only way cena would be accepted to win the match, would be to turn heel?

[x12x]

I don't think it's the only way but I think a heel turn would be good because his current face persona got boring a long time ago...I don't even think he has to go full heel, just back to his take no prisoners attitude he had in the Thuganomics days.

[TheCultOfPersonality]

Its certainly reminiscent of Stone Cold before Mania 17 where he just had to win the big one. However I just don't think WWE have the guts to turn their biggest star heel at the grandest stage of them all, but what a moment it would be if it did happen!

I can very well see Team Ziggy winning everything now. Again, it would be an amazing skeptical to see them all with gold at wrestlemania.

Fandango vs Jericho has been built well too, will Dango get the win, if he loses his first match I dont see where he'll go from there.

I can't weight for Henry vs Ryback. Two monsters at it!

[psycho-gooner]

I still couldnt get hyped up about the main event. Granted I'm a little bit more interested. But they're still going with this idea that Cena is the underdog which has been done to death already. I'm more excited about Punk/Taker, Del Rio/Swagger, Shield and Henry/Ryback

[Hero]

One line that really sprung out for me in the Rock/Cena debate was the Cena line of...

'Whever I win or I lose that match it is safe to say that it will change the 'face' of WWE forever'

[theundisputedY2D2]

One line that really sprung out for me in the Rock/Cena debate was the Cena line of...

'Whever I win or I lose that match it is safe to say that it will change the 'face' of WWE forever'

Cena's getting plastic surgery after Wrestlemania!


There's definite shades of Steve Austin / Wrestlemania 17 to the build up to Rock - Cena II, what with everybody laying it on thick about how John Cena HAS to win. Then again there's been so many false dawns regarding a Cena heel turn that we should just try and enjoy the ride and not get our hopes up.


Then again, if RAW is scheduled for Oklahoma soon after Wrestlemania, then Cena's definitely turning heel. He'll beat up Jim Ross to cement the turn. Which should be fun to watch.

[Kay Fabe]

I really enjoyed RAW, I thought everything went well and built everything nicely, although if I'm being hyper critical I'd say I'm a bit disappointed in CM Punk though if I'm being honest, this just doesn't feel like his type of feud, I don't blame Punk in the slightest but I feel he's been given a complete turd and no amount of polishing will make it anything other than a turd.

Excellent debate at the end, wasn't too fussed with the panel, I thought Bret looked great but his question sucked, don't see why they had to drop in his feud with Michaels, we all know they had some kind of heat apparently, I liked the premis of it though, I thought Cena played his part brilliantly as did Rock, I really do see a Cena heel turn coming although I'm now not sure if it'll come at WrestleMania or Extreme Rules...will one more loss be too much to take leading to him going heel? Or does he not have the belief in himself to go into WrestleMania without back up already planned? I thought Cena being Rock Bottomed was the perfect way to end the segment even if Cena is so damn stiff every back bump he takes looks horrible, I think it adds to the whole fact Cena is too passionate about this, he thinks with his heart not his head, it only helps sprout the seeds of doubt in Cena's mind that he can't best Rock...really intriguing storyline.

[Mr Video Man]

One line that really sprung out for me in the Rock/Cena debate was the Cena line of...

'Whever I win or I lose that match it is safe to say that it will change the 'face' of WWE forever'

Cena's getting plastic surgery after Wrestlemania!


There's definite shades of Steve Austin / Wrestlemania 17 to the build up to Rock - Cena II, what with everybody laying it on thick about how John Cena HAS to win. Then again there's been so many false dawns regarding a Cena heel turn that we should just try and enjoy the ride and not get our hopes up.


Then again, if RAW is scheduled for Oklahoma soon after Wrestlemania, then Cena's definitely turning heel. He'll beat up Jim Ross to cement the turn. Which should be fun to watch.

I guarantee cena will never evvvvvvvvvvvvvvverrrrrr turn heel. the wwe make too much money out of him as a face and don't want to upset the children

[Crimey]

One line that really sprung out for me in the Rock/Cena debate was the Cena line of...

'Whever I win or I lose that match it is safe to say that it will change the 'face' of WWE forever'

Cena's getting plastic surgery after Wrestlemania!


There's definite shades of Steve Austin / Wrestlemania 17 to the build up to Rock - Cena II, what with everybody laying it on thick about how John Cena HAS to win. Then again there's been so many false dawns regarding a Cena heel turn that we should just try and enjoy the ride and not get our hopes up.


Then again, if RAW is scheduled for Oklahoma soon after Wrestlemania, then Cena's definitely turning heel. He'll beat up Jim Ross to cement the turn. Which should be fun to watch.

I guarantee cena will never evvvvvvvvvvvvvvverrrrrr turn heel. the wwe make too much money out of him as a face and don't want to upset the children

WWE do have somebody who could easily take over with the merchandise sales, and as much as I'm not a huge fan of him, Ryback is hugely over right now. Hogan has been turned, Austin has been turned, Cena could be turned.

They also turned CM Punk when he outselling Cena on merchandise. They're not that afraid to turn people heel, they know people will still buy merchandise, it's whether Cena will be happy to do it as he's somebody who likes doing charity work which is a lot more difficult to do as a heel.

[Kay Fabe]

Ahh the old he makes too much money to turn heel defence, that's no been used in at least a week on here...

[Kenny]

My son was a big Cena fan ( yes i did beat him ) but before last years mania he decided he no longer wanted Cena to win every match as he was bored with the same old same old .

He now wants Cena to cheat the Rock at this years mania to win the title , so theres one kid who would like a Cena heel turn WWE !

[Kay Fabe]

I bought my nephew the spinner belt a couple of years ago because he's a huge Cena fan, he also liked any particular face and would just want something else of he stopped liking Cena, I'd say same goes for pretty much every single kid all over the world

[owen10ozzy]

Agreed with regards to Cena V Rock....does feel like a heel turn is being teased but as has been mentioned it has been done so many times before that I am not going to get my hopes up.

The only problem I had with the ending was that for me it kind of ruined everything else in the sense that The Rock got the upper hand. Now of course in one sense this is how it should have been as it will add to the doubts Cena is supposed to have in his mind. He was bested yet again....

However it has done the opposite for me and only confirmed that Cena will go over at Wrestlemania.

The Champion is almost always built to look strong heading into a title defence he will be losing....

For me I still think we will be seeing a Cena win followed by a handshake...

But quite honestly I think this is an even better chance to turn him heel thank the possibility of him coming up against Taker and doing it.

[NickisBHAFC]

Ill admit very good Raw, improved after last weeks disaster.

Match of the night: The Miz vs Wade Barrett, was a great match and i very much enjoyed it, hope the 2 can have a match at Wrestle Mania for the title. Also found HHH kick to Barrett before the match so funny.

The ending was better than i thought it would be. I really think we might see the Cena heel turn we have all being waiting for, but as said i have been hopeful in the past and then left disappointed so im bracing myself for the same outcome. So im expecting a Cena clean win, followed by a handshake and Wrestle Mania finishes and i go to bed angry.

HHH promo was decent, his match against Lesnar is the match i am most looking forward to at mania tbh.

Undertaker and CM Punk start to the night was good, its good to see the 2 have some sort of physical contact with one and other before the match.

WWE have also done well in getting the mid card matches for Mania hyped up IMO.

I think Wrestle Mania 29 does have huge potential we just have to wait and see what happens now!

[Liam]

I thought the Rock was very very good in the debate. He brought real passion and i'm happy he got to put a rock bottom on Cena, keeps the champ looking strong and adding to the storyline that maybe Cena can't beat Rock (Which he will no doubt). I would like to see Cena heel turn but I still don't think I would like him. His move set won't change, just one of those things.

Thought Punk was brilliant again. Some of things he comes up with in promo's is tremendous, takes a very talented man to come up with things to say like he does. Loved how he said Taker should have just stopped when him, triple h and michaels had their hug on the stage and went off into the sunset haha. Would love him to take the streak but he won't, don't think it'll ever be broken. Orton should have taken it, Michaels certainly, the moment to take it has gone now for me.

[Guest]

Did anybody notice at the beginning of the HHH promo when he says he finds himself going into WM knowing if he loses he will never be able to wrestle again, there's a fan in the audience who shouts 'finally'

[VDT]

My son likes Cena new bright yellow t-shirt also got him the spinner belt and he has 3 figures of Cena! His other favs are Rey, Sin Cara (but only because Joel thinks he looks like a Power Ranger) and Sheamoose (but only because he supports Liverpool)

[Dr Gregory House MD]

The best bit of improve I heard was when the crowd were chanting ECW during Punks promo he turns to Heyman and says 'speaking of things that have died'

[Kay Fabe]

Speaking of Cena's new T-Shirt, he usually debuts one at WrestleMania, when he brought that out a few weeks ago I immediately thought he could be turning at Mania and they where trying to offload as many T-Shirts as possible

[Hero]

I've just said it on the podcast recording and I'm going to put it in print:


Cena is turning heel at Mania.

[Kay Fabe]

Is Rock sticking around until Extreme Rules or is the WWE just teasing that so the result at Mania isn't a foregone conclusion?

[x12x]

I've just said it on the podcast recording and I'm going to put it in print:


Cena is turning heel at Mania.

Any predictions on how?

Shield interference? dirty move (low blow)? or weapon shot?
Also do you think after all this time as the "face" of the WWE that anyone would take him seriously as a heel?

[Dr Gregory House MD]

If Cena turns heel at 'Mania it kills the credability of this era IMO

[Kenny]

did anyone else notice Heymans face when Punk dropped the urn ? you could see him shake his head and say pick it up

[Dr Gregory House MD]

did anyone else notice Heymans face when Punk dropped the urn ? you could see him shake his head and say pick it up

Heyman does play his character in that he is sometimes a bit shocked by the depths Punk will stoop to, I wouldn't read too much into it, the booker of ECW does not lose much sleep over disrespecting an urn

[x12x]

If Cena turns heel at 'Mania it kills the credability of this era IMO

or it could usher in the next one, with HHH calling the shots and making changes it might be the perfect way to make a statement.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

If Cena turns heel at 'Mania it kills the credability of this era IMO

This definitely needs some justification

[Crimey]

If Cena turns heel at 'Mania it kills the credability of this era IMO

This definitely needs some justification

Presumably it's because Cena has essentially been bested by The Rock, a throw back to the Attitude Era two years in a row in two main events of Wrestlemania.

[Hero]

Firstly there were a few times during the debate with Rock where he certainly was dropping the typical hustle loyalty respect code that is his face character, the whole 'I should have won, it was due to me losing not you beating me' that's not respect.
Secondly the subtle 'it will change the 'face' of WWE forever', I think that was very very deliberate and one of those quotes that will then be used in the produced videos afterwards.
Thirdly its Wrestlemania v Rock, its probably his biggest match of his life and WWE despite pulling all the stops to get huge guys in are still losing ratings over time, they realise it needs a OMG moment, a Hollywood Hogan moment.
Fourthly, Cena is 36 soon, the appeal to young kids is soon going to be reaching the end of its shelf life, they've been pushing Ryback as the new kid friendly star and despite not actually having a PPV win yet he's still hugely over with the Universe fans.

How I see it going down, Cena gives it his all, Rock though just keeps beating the 3 count, Cena realises that the good guy he's been isn't enough to get the job done, the crowd already are on his back so he decides that he needs the win at any cost and takes out the ref before going full heel with dirty blows/weapon shots for the win.

[Kay Fabe]

How will it happen?

The Shield seem like the logical option for me, Cena put everything in place due to the injustice of Rock getting a Main Event slot and beating him, then announcing he's getting a #1 contender shot 6 months in advance at the Rumble despite not Wrestling since WM28

Will it happen at WrestleMania? Maybe not, after last night I was thinking that Cena might just fail to win the big 1 yet again which could push him over the edge leading him to finally pull the trigger on the swerve at Extreme Rules

[Dr Gregory House MD]

What I mean by that is that the top star of this era is Cena, he lost to The Rock who was the star of the last era, I was dead against this last year but at the time I didn't realise their would be a re-match.

If Cena needs to cheat to win this time, as he is presented as the best of this era, it will undermine the credability of all whom Cena has dominated over the past 9 years, portraying an aged Rock to be superior and by extension the attitude era greater than this era.

I think the popularity of the Rock and the dislike of Cena clouds this some what but generally at its core I think it's a devestating blow to the established rules of pro wrestling.

[Hero]

I can't see it at Extreme Rules myself, if they're going to do it then they're not wasting it on the follow up show.

[Hero]

What I mean by that is that the top star of this era is Cena, he lost to The Rock who was the star of the last era, I was dead against this last year but at the time I didn't realise their would be a re-match.

If Cena needs to cheat to win this time, as he is presented as the best of this era, it will undermine the credability of all whom Cena has dominated over the past 9 years, portraying an aged Rock to be superior and by extension the attitude era greater than this era.

I think the popularity of the Rock and the dislike of Cena clouds this some what but generally at its core I think it's a devestating blow to the established rules of pro wrestling.

They've already had Rock defeat a 434 day champion who'd beat Cena several times during that reign when Rock hadn't wrestled for 8 months and win with an elbow. I don't think they care too much for protecting the era.

[Dr Gregory House MD]

What I mean by that is that the top star of this era is Cena, he lost to The Rock who was the star of the last era, I was dead against this last year but at the time I didn't realise their would be a re-match.

If Cena needs to cheat to win this time, as he is presented as the best of this era, it will undermine the credability of all whom Cena has dominated over the past 9 years, portraying an aged Rock to be superior and by extension the attitude era greater than this era.

I think the popularity of the Rock and the dislike of Cena clouds this some what but generally at its core I think it's a devestating blow to the established rules of pro wrestling.

They've already had Rock defeat a 434 day champion who'd beat Cena several times during that reign when Rock hadn't wrestled for 8 months and win with an elbow. I don't think they care too much for protecting the era.

I'm willing to tolerate that for the sake of a Cena win, personally (although I can see the obvious marketing benefits), I would have had Punk beat Rock and Cena take the belt in the chamber before offering Rock the WM match to get his win back.

[Dr Gregory House MD]

With all that said, I'm pretty sure if Cena did turn I'd be marking out with everyone else, but that's very much heart over head

[Dolphin Ziggler]

This point was just made on the podcast and I don't buy it. The Rock is champion and hasn't been booked as a part timer like some of the others. When you beat the man Cena couldn't beat (Punk) then it makes sense. Plus he's got a real mental block with The Rock, or so it has been built. With the way wrestling is booked its story first and competitive sporting nature second.

[Hero]

And in one of the other main events you have a one match a year struggling to walk twilight of career beating the recent 434 day champ, again another show that WWE don't consider that era prestige is affected.

[Dr Gregory House MD]

I'm not quibbling on how Rock has been portrayed (though I'd have prefered to have kept Punk protected at the Rumble), obviously he needs to be a credible threat, but I just think that their needs to be at least one person on the full time roster who WWE can point to and go, yeh, that's the guy who's best.

Rock beating Cena smacks of an inferiority complex over the past 9 years for me.

[Dr Gregory House MD]

And in one of the other main events you have a one match a year struggling to walk twilight of career beating the recent 434 day champ, again another show that WWE don't consider that era prestige is affected.

I'm not so bothered about that one as the streak has been portaryed as a formidible force over all eras, Rock took a sit out for 8 years and has returned to beat both of WWE's top stars, I just think there needs to be someone who will balance in the name of what we have been watching all this time hasn't been 2nd rate.

[Shot 21 LCFC]

Fantastic Raw.

Was shocked when The Undertaker appeared in the ring to take it to CM Punk as I didnt expect physical contact. One thing people dont seem to be mentioning too much is how refreshing it is to see the streak being defended against a heel again, after the last 2 respect feuds against Triple H and, to a certain extent, the 2 prior against Shawn Michaels (albeit there was a bit of contact in the bulid up to the 2nd fight with Michaels trying to anger Taker into the match).

Once again I was really impressed with Fandango and Im looking forward to the Mania match with Chris Jericho. Liking how vicious they are portraying him, and giving him his debut at the grandest stage of them all, it shows they must have plans for him. He has certainly turned out better than a lot of people expected.

They are ticking along nicely with The Shield v BigRKShogueKick. Hoping The Shield win with an Orton heel turn added in.

Ryback and Mark Henry did their jobs nicely with more dominant showings - cant wait for this match.

The final segment was excellent. Credit to both John Cena and The Rock for smashing it and I am finally excited about this match. Loved how personal they got to each other. Although they may have "hinted" at a heel turn it will never happen so Im not even going to think about that. I will just look forward to the match.

P.S. Ryback has won on PPV, albeit low key matches with no build up. I seem to remember one was against Camacho and there was a handicap match against someone as well.

[Hero]

You're right on that, he beat Reks and Hawkins in the handicap match.

[theundisputedY2D2]

You're right on that, he beat Reks and Hawkins in the handicap match.

In that case Ryberg is winning all of Wrestlemania 29.

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