POC gets off for kicking Kearney's head

First topic message reminder :

Just announced that POC isn't going to get any sanction for the kick into Dave Kearney's head at the weekend.

Nobody believes that POC intended to kick Kearney but his action was clumsy bordering on the reckless and he should have been cited. Somehow if this wasn't a match between two Irish teams (Leinster were never going to cite POC)and was a HC match against a French or English team - and the citing officer wasn't Irish - he would have been cited. Still might have got off with a warning but somehow I think Paulie and Munster are very lucky that he's going to be there for the Clermont game.

Mickado wrote:So, Munster v Clermont - ROG kicks off, Nathan Hines ignores the flight of the ball and runs right up to ROG and boots him in the chest. Penalty Munster.

ya roysh...

You really think Hines would be thick enough to run away from where the ball was going to give ROG a few digs

Anyway, they know ROG is a hard b***dard after the last time they tried to do him in down there. ROG kicked the penalty and Audeberg got his 8 weeks holiday.

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:So, Munster v Clermont - ROG kicks off, Nathan Hines ignores the flight of the ball and runs right up to ROG and boots him in the chest. Penalty Munster.

ya roysh...

You really think Hines would be thick enough to run away from where the ball was going to give ROG a few digs

Anyway, they know ROG is a hard b***dard after the last time they tried to do him in down there. ROG kicked the penalty and Audeberg got his 8 weeks holiday.

I like your technique Shin. Never answer an awkward question just come back with something irrelevant to it so you can brush it aside. You are truly a master and should join the local Fianna Fáil Cumann. If indeed you are not already a member.

What question was I asked Jen? Micko made a statement


PS - I'm a Greenie Jen!

Sin é wrote:What question was I asked Jen? Micko made a statement


PS - I'm a Greenie Jen!

See? You're at it again!

Oh no, did I forget to add a question mark again.

Why is that so hard.

I suppose this means my question will never be answered.

Syntax was never my strong point?

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Red card offence. That should have been the end of O'Connell's season and to be honest if this wasn't a Lions year it would have been.

Makes a mockery of the citing commission and shows were the IRFU's priorities are.

Kicking an opponent is not a Red Card Offence. Its a penalty.

Remember 1995?

Pieter Hendriks was banned from the RWC tournament for a kick in the Canada game.

How anyone can't see that this was reckless play is beyond me. DK was knocked out FFS!! Whatever the circumstances are, striking a player lying flat on the ground and hard enough to knock him out, is reckless play and should be cited as a bare minimum. The excuses are quite frankly laughable from some quarters, including from the IRFU. It doesn't matter what part of his body hit him, the issue is the force and potential for injury and disregard POC had for DK's safety.

No surprise, Sin is defending a Munster player, and changing the goals posts to suit his argument. If this is his real opinion rather than a wind up, then it's this attititude that is a real blight on the game in Ireland.

This is all I'll say on this.

Mickado wrote:Oh no, did I forget to add a question mark again.

Why is that so hard.

I suppose this means my question will never be answered.

Syntax was never my strong point?

Sorry, you post has gone completely over my head. I haven't a clue what you are getting at. Could you try plain English for me please?

the-goon wrote:How anyone can't see that this was reckless play is beyond me. DK was knocked out FFS!! Whatever the circumstances are, striking a player lying flat on the ground and hard enough to knock him out, is reckless play and should be cited as a bare minimum. The excuses are quite frankly laughable from some quarters, including from the IRFU. It doesn't matter what part of his body hit him, the issue is the force and potential for injury and disregard POC had for DK's safety.

No surprise, Sin is defending a Munster player, and changing the goals posts to suit his argument. If this is his real opinion rather than a wind up, then it's this attititude that is a real blight on the game in Ireland.

This is all I'll say on this.

I'm not defending anyone - I'm having a laugh at the brass neck of Leo Cullen to make the comment he did make about it.

By the way, my contention has always been that the problem are the laws and its the IRB that needs to sort them (but with a word of warning, you cannot legislate to make a sport like rugby safe and you are codding yourself if you think you can).

I know this because I've been involved in a outdoor activity that has an inherent risk of injury or death and no organisation will go down the route that some seem to be pushing here.

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:Oh no, did I forget to add a question mark again.

Why is that so hard.

I suppose this means my question will never be answered.

Syntax was never my strong point?

Sorry, you post has gone completely over my head. I haven't a clue what you are getting at. Could you try plain English for me please?

If only POCs boot had gone over Kearney's .....

Cullen talking about 'players'. A 'player' does this to a 'player'.
O'Connell talking about it being a competition between red and blue.

Yeah, Dave Kearney gets a mention now and then, mostly by us.... oh and Joe Schmidt mentioned him.

Anyway, that game might have looked exciting and tough and a real classic derby, but in my mind it got much too hot and heavy - needlessly so....a lot of shouting at each other with liberal amounts of cussin', which Paul himself got involved in.

Okay, guys, we all know you two (Leinster and Munster teams) get passionate about things but could we keep it as a rugby game? You don't have to keep proving to us just how intense y'all can get - it seems to have become a matter of honour to show up this game as the hottest and bloodiest ticket in town.

It seems Schmidt's first duty if he gets the job of Internationl coach is to have one of the famous hotel locked-room meetings to drag these guys down and remind them that they are professional players, not tribal leaders.

PS oh yeah, Schmidt will be the first one to get a dressing down in that meeting for the things he said - Sin would be on to me if I didn't make that clear.

I did notice some choice words from POC. Thought it was quite funny. I do enjoy a good donnybrook from time to time in these games.

It does seem like there is an increasing amount of incidents in these matches usually from Munster players. Adds to the spice IMO. Maybe that's why Leinster are speaking up this time?

Schmidt said that mothers watching the POC kick will be discouraged against letting their kids play especially because it went unsanctioned. He believes that sends out the wrong message.

He has a point I suppose but it is hard to justify big punishments for incidents that could be perceived as accidental. I think POC should have at least been given the opportunity to claim his innocence in front of a citing commission.

GunsGerms wrote:I did notice some choice words from POC. Thought it was quite funny. I do enjoy a good donnybrook from time to time in these games.

It does seem like there is an increasing amount of incidents in these matches usually from Munster players. Adds to the spice IMO. Maybe that's why Leinster are speaking up this time?

Schmidt said that mothers watching the POC kick will be discouraged against letting their kids play especially because it went unsanctioned. He believes that sends out the wrong message.

He has a point I suppose but it is hard to justify big punishments for incidents that could be perceived as accidental. I think POC should have at least been given the opportunity to claim his innocence in front of a citing commission.

Yeah, Guns agree with a lot of that. But he could have popped in a message about Dave Kearney or just mention his name in his comments. It would have made it a more human incident than a red on blue arm wrestle he alluded to. Cullen too could have done less of the cold 'player' this and 'player' that and mentioned Paul O'Connell and Dave Kearney by name.
I don't mind Munster/Leinster fist fights on the night so much...but the mood can linger and sour and thus why the hotel room lock-downs were always needed. These guys will need to play together and the brooding through the ages about Provincial woes won't help that process.

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:Oh no, did I forget to add a question mark again.

Why is that so hard.

I suppose this means my question will never be answered.

Syntax was never my strong point?

Sorry, you post has gone completely over my head. I haven't a clue what you are getting at. Could you try plain English for me please?

ah. another classic fianna fail one. pretend to be thick to draw out your opponent. If they think you're thick they feel superior and drop their guard, revealing more of their soft underbelly for you to land blows in. boooom.

GunsGerms wrote:I did notice some choice words from POC. Thought it was quite funny. I do enjoy a good donnybrook from time to time in these games.

It does seem like there is an increasing amount of incidents in these matches usually from Munster players. Adds to the spice IMO. Maybe that's why Leinster are speaking up this time?

Schmidt said that mothers watching the POC kick will be discouraged against letting their kids play especially because it went unsanctioned. He believes that sends out the wrong message.

He has a point I suppose but it is hard to justify big punishments for incidents that could be perceived as accidental. I think POC should have at least been given the opportunity to claim his innocence in front of a citing commission.

Pity Schmidt didn't try and exert some influence on Cudmore when he was with Clermont if he is so worried about the game. Now there is someone who brings shame to the game of rugby.

Cudmore's Career to date: 26 Yellow cards. 4 red Cards. 4 yellow inter. (20 inter cap)s. and loads and loads of citings.
POC and the Munster players are positively angels in comparison to Cudmore & Hines.
Hines has 11 YC (club). 5 YC International.
POC: YC 3. 1 Red club. YC=2 international.

Heaslip is far worse - 8 YCs for Leinster, 1 red international.

Perhaps if Schmidt remind Leo to stop the niggly sly Poopie he is always at, POC's language will cleans up.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I did notice some choice words from POC. Thought it was quite funny. I do enjoy a good donnybrook from time to time in these games.

It does seem like there is an increasing amount of incidents in these matches usually from Munster players. Adds to the spice IMO. Maybe that's why Leinster are speaking up this time?

Schmidt said that mothers watching the POC kick will be discouraged against letting their kids play especially because it went unsanctioned. He believes that sends out the wrong message.

He has a point I suppose but it is hard to justify big punishments for incidents that could be perceived as accidental. I think POC should have at least been given the opportunity to claim his innocence in front of a citing commission.

Pity Schmidt didn't try and exert some influence on Cudmore when he was with Clermont if he is so worried about the game. Now there is someone who brings shame to the game of rugby.

Cudmore's Career to date: 26 Yellow cards. 4 red Cards. 4 yellow inter. (20 inter cap)s. and loads and loads of citings.
POC and the Munster players are positively angles in comparison to Cudmore & Hines.
Hines has 11 YC (club). 5 YC International.
POC: YC 3. 1 Red club. YC=2 international.

Heaslip is far worse - 8 YCs for Leinster, 1 red international.

Perhaps if Schmidt remind Leo to stop the niggly sly Poopie he is always at, POC's language will cleans up.

You keep thinking a underling coach does all the public speaking and after game interviews, Sin. Schmidt wasn't head coach... we don't know what he thinks of Cudmore's cards.

SecretFly wrote:

Yeah, Guns agree with a lot of that. But he could have popped in a message about Dave Kearney or just mention his name in his comments. It would have made it a more human incident than a red on blue arm wrestle he alluded to. Cullen too could have done less of the cold 'player' this and 'player' that and mentioned Paul O'Connell and Dave Kearney by name.

He was at a business breakfast to do with Limerick being designated National City of Culture and probably didn't think that Dave Kearney would be reading about that to send him any get well messages. He wasn't making a state of the nation address on the incident and was probably only answering questions he was asked.

Now, stop being so precious.

PS - are you sure Schmdit wasn't referring to his own squad - when talking about DK being forgotten. Fergus McFadden thought he was still in hospital last Monday.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Yeah, Guns agree with a lot of that. But he could have popped in a message about Dave Kearney or just mention his name in his comments. It would have made it a more human incident than a red on blue arm wrestle he alluded to. Cullen too could have done less of the cold 'player' this and 'player' that and mentioned Paul O'Connell and Dave Kearney by name.

He was at a business breakfast to do with Limerick being designated National City of Culture and probably didn't think that Dave Kearney would be reading about that to send him any get well messages. He wasn't making a state of the nation address on the incident and was probably only answering questions he was asked.

Now, stop being so precious.

PS - are you sure Schmdit wasn't referring to his own squad - when talking about DK being forgotten. Fergus McFadden thought he was still in hospital last Monday.

Sin é even when I'm kinda on your side you strike with spite and bullsh-IT.

So quit the bullsh-IT. He said enough about the fun-and-games red on blue chess game at the National City of Culture breakfast with sausages and fried egg and toast.
He said enough about what he wanted to say but didn't mention the unfortunate player at the end of his misplaced boot. So give it a bloody red-obsession rest and just admit it's a nice trait to mention the person you mistakenly knocked unconscious, the man most people seems to have forgotten in all this lovely red on blue melodrama going down here.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é even when I'm kinda on your side you strike with spite and bullsh-IT.

So quit the bullsh-IT. He said enough about the fun-and-games red on blue chess game at the National City of Culture breakfast with sausages and fired egg and toast.
He said enough about what he wanted to say but didn't mention the unfortunate player at the end of his misplaced boot. So give it a bloody red-obsession rest and just admit it's a nice trait to mention the person you mistakenly knocked unconscious, the man most people seems to have forgotten in all this lovely red on blue melodrama going down here.

An awful lot of bull spouted by Leinster. Leo is a filthy player. DOC is injured compliments of his actions - he dragged Varley into DOC's back (pulling him offside and earning a penalty for Leinster). Thats when DOC injured his knee from the impact of Varley - must have got him awkwardly. Its nauseating to then have listen to him talk Poopie about player protection, good of the game and you all lapping it up.

Then we had Leinster attempting to play a player who was suspended (Healy) recently. Some respect for the laws of the game there.

We also had Leinster taking legal action against the League so that Jennings could get off striking a Connacht player (Leinster claimed that the League had no auhority to suspend anyone).

Stop embarrassing yourselves - its laughable this 'saintly' stance you are adopting.

Sin é wrote:

An awful lot of bull spouted by Leinster. Leo is a filthy player. DOC is injured compliments of his actions - he dragged Varley into DOC's back (pulling him offside and earning a penalty for Leinster). Thats when DOC injured his knee from the impact of Varley - must have got him awkwardly. Its nauseating to then have listen to him talk Poopie about player protection, good of the game and you all lapping it up.

Did I lap it up? You constantly want to just keep it blue and red...all blue guys think blue thoughts...all red guys think Munster.

It's shyte. I laugh at it most times but it's bloody tiring at times too - exhausting rubbish and pathetic. "He didn't say that then so why should one of our players say this now?"

Crap...childish nonsense not fit for men who watch and love rugby. Cullen should maybe keep his mouth closed and Paul O'Connell should have said he was sorry to have hit Kearney by mistake rather than focus on how worried he was that he'd be cited....at the business breakfast.

Secret Fly, I must have missed your post that said Cullen should keep his mouth shut as his own record is not exemplarly - could you link me to it.

I'm the only one here pointing out the very double standards that are applied by some.

Sin é wrote:Secret Fly, I must have missed your post that said Cullen should keep his mouth shut as his own record is not exemplarly - could you link me to it.

I'm the only one here pointing out the very double standards that are applied by some.

That's because we are all one eyed Leinster fans, and you are totally unbiased and even handed.

Hi guys I've just popped in from the Ulster thread, it seems a lot more reasonable and amicable in here.......

Sin é wrote:Secret Fly, I must have missed your post that said Cullen should keep his mouth shut as his own record is not exemplarly - could you link me to it.

I'm the only one here pointing out the very double standards that are applied by some.

Oh you tripped across it just a few posts up...you know, the one you're after just partially quoting?!
Did you also miss the post where I patted Cullen on the back for words well spoken? Did you?

Yeah, of course you did, because it ain't there.

Have you more smart sounding trip wires lurking for me in the long grass Sin?

Now, meanwhile, I didn't hear you agree with me yet that Paul, the less dirty player than Cullen, should have acknowledged the name of the player he mistakenly hit? Are you going to do something you accused Leinster fans of being incapable of doing? - No? - That would be weakness shown in the field of battle huh?

rodders wrote:Hi guys I've just popped in from the Ulster thread, it seems a lot more reasonable and amicable in here.......

Should I pop over so that everyone can start having a go at me? That would get everyone again

rodders wrote:Hi guys I've just popped in from the Ulster thread, it seems a lot more reasonable and amicable in here.......

What the hell do you want, Ulsterman!!!!????

Oh sorry Rodders, calming down from my affected Provincial anger and spite.....

what's the Ulster thread so hot about? I might cruise over there. I like a good verbal fight with friendly neighbours

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:Secret Fly, I must have missed your post that said Cullen should keep his mouth shut as his own record is not exemplarly - could you link me to it.

I'm the only one here pointing out the very double standards that are applied by some.

Oh you tripped across it just a few posts up...you know, the one you're after just partially quoting?!
Did you also miss the post where I patted Cullen on the back for words well spoken? Did you?

Yeah, of course you did, because it ain't there.

Have you more smart sounding trip wires lurking for me in the long grass Sin?

Now, meanwhile, I didn't hear you agree with me yet that Paul, the less dirty player than Cullen, should have acknowledged the name of the player he mistakenly hit? Are you going to do something you accused Leinster fans of being incapable of doing? - No? - That would be weakness shown in the field of battle huh?

Plenty of trip wires Fly - you (as in Leinsterfans) just never stop giving opportunities to get caught out!

As for name dropping David Kearney - blame the media for not asking the right questions.

by the by - was just reading Alan Quinlan in the IT. Says that the citing officer usually drops into each dressing room after a match to ask if there is anything special he should be looking out for. Obviously the Munster lads were not dropping Leo in it, or Straus for his stamp - how poor of them. They are a disgrace and they too should do their bit to clean up the game and stop being so macho about it.

I presume Leinster told the citing officer they wanted POC cited and are only announcing it now because he hasn't done so.

Sin é wrote:

Plenty of trip wires Fly - you (as in Leinsterfans) just never stop giving opportunities to get caught out!

Paul and Dave was another question Sin. Answer that one too....

Just did an edit - see above.

Hmmm, nope...I don't blame the media for not asking and acknowledgement shouldn't need a prompt, it should be heartfelt.

Dave is a young player, he doesn't have the Munster/Leinster baggage yet in depth like some of the other players do... but he's kinda suffering because of the link. Had that been another side - perhaps a Welsh or English side and player, Paulie might have found it easier to acknowledge Dave's innocence in simply saying he was sorry he mistakenly hit the young guy.

No harm would have been done. It would have been nice, and you know it. I like Paul...it would have been nice.

Surprised to see this is still going, I thought it was a clear case of reckless behaviour.

How can this not be settled yet?

Fly - POC was at a Buiness Breakfast with possibly just local journalists - as far as I know his comments were in the Limerick Leader and were picked up from there by the Indo. This was not a rugby occasion. It was even a press conference. The questions could have been from a businessman in Limerick and reported on.

Now, you don't know what private conversations POC has had with Kearney junior and probably knows exactly the state of his DK's health. Schmidt fanned the flames when he said he would be out for the rest of the season - now it seems he will miss next game and possibly the one after that. As well as that Schmidt he was out cold for several minutes - but yet he was awake with his hand up when taken off the pitch.

It wouldn't do the game of rugby a lot of good if Leinster Rugby cleared up some of their rather vague statements on the state of D Kearney's health, how long he was out cold for, etc.

Biltong wrote:Surprised to see this is still going, I thought it was a clear case of reckless behaviour.

How can this not be settled yet?

Leinster Rugby continue to add fuel to the fire Biltong!

Sin é wrote:

Biltong wrote:Surprised to see this is still going, I thought it was a clear case of reckless behaviour.

How can this not be settled yet?

Leinster Rugby continue to add fuel to the fire Biltong!

and all the while you maintain a dignified silence. that's what we love about you........ along with your magnanimous even handedness. we are truly blessed.

Biltong wrote:Surprised to see this is still going, I thought it was a clear case of reckless behaviour.

How can this not be settled yet?

The only way to settle this is for Kearney to boot POC in the head.

He was on the pitch for several minutes before he was taken off Sin.... Are you saying he wasn't out cold? Of course you're not. You saw that he was... so don't make the accusation that a coach claimed his player was worse than he was. Kearney was out cold and he was on the field for several minutes. Are we going to do a clock test on when he actually regained consciousness?

You keep saying it was a business meeting as if that precluded the need for Paul mentioning the name Dave Kearney, the player he accidently hit. Yet at the same Business meeting he did mention the incident , he did mention he was worried when he saw the footage, he did say it was blown out of proportion, he did say he knows he didn't mean to hit anyone, he did say its people taking sides because they are either red or blue. He said all that at the business meeting but he didn't say that the important thing is that he wished Dave Kearney a speedy recovery, it was never his intention to hit him and he was sorry that it happened.
A business meeting would have allowed him to say that. He knew his comments would be printed. It's the media, whatever the event and it would have been public acknowledgement of the player who was hit.
Now that's as simple as it gets. And your response should be "well, you're probably right, Paul should have mentioned Kearney as a gesture of apology".

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Biltong wrote:Surprised to see this is still going, I thought it was a clear case of reckless behaviour.

How can this not be settled yet?

The only way to settle this is for Kearney to boot POC in the head.

Case closed

Haven't read all 6 pages of this but having looked at a few posts some seem to be suggesting that POC shouldn't have been cited or banned because although what he did was reckless he didn't mean to cause injury ...

I can think of many tip tackles where they were accidental, in some cases even contributed to by the tackled players actions, resulted in no injury to the tackled player etc but still resulted in citings and bans.

POC should have been cited due to the reckless nature of his actions - the fact that he didn't intend to injure anyone is irrelevant.

Jeez, how anyone can defend POC on this one is beyond me. Mind you, some defended Healy and BOD.

The Irish feet are smiling.

Biltong wrote:Surprised to see this is still going, I thought it was a clear case of reckless behaviour.

How can this not be settled yet?

Settled?

Hi Biltong. We're Irish. Our grandchildren will still be arguing about this in their old folks homes.

Careful now...

[have thought better of this post]
As you were.

Quinnie talking of bad blood between L&M being stirred up by Schmidts comments.

"Joe made a valid point and he was respectful and all, but he said that Kearney was kicked unconscious, that's a bit strong"

Lads that 'ignore' button is there so debates don't crash and burn like this

i have to say Sin E is total poison and for me sums up everything that is wrong with Irish rugby. i agree that there are many like him on both sides of the fence and i find both one eyed supporters completely idiotic. personally i think he should be banned. you only have to look at the articles that he destroys to see what a destructive influence he is on these boards.

i am sorry for the personal attack and i expect a slap on the wrist but this guy has been ruining good debates on irish rugby too long.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Biltong wrote:Surprised to see this is still going, I thought it was a clear case of reckless behaviour.

How can this not be settled yet?

The only way to settle this is for Kearney to boot POC in the head.

Great suggestion. Kearney should get a free one at POCs mallet. Chances are his big thick Munster head wouldnt register any pain but it would be a fair way to wrap up proceedings.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:i have to say Sin E is total poison and for me sums up everything that is wrong with Irish rugby. i agree that there are many like him on both sides of the fence and i find both one eyed supporters completely idiotic. personally i think he should be banned. you only have to look at the articles that he destroys to see what a destructive influence he is on these boards.

i am sorry for the personal attack and i expect a slap on the wrist but this guy has been ruining good debates on irish rugby too long.

I think Siné might just be a fanitical Munster person. Debate should be encouranged though. I find that I disagree with most of what he says too but thats no reason to call him poison. In fact if you think about it you would probably agree that he would rarely use personal insults himself.

Some of the best debaters in the world are those that can represent unpopular opinion and defend at times the undefendable. Have you seen the movie "thankyou for not smoking". If everyone agreed all the time forums would be very boring. I think Siné has a place on this forum as he represents the opposite opinion to a lot of posters, more often than not including myself and thats important for healthy debate.

I think its time to knock this overhyped Leinster v Muntser thing on the head. The fans and players have lost the run of themselves.

Sure its only a bit of craic to warm yees up for the 6N, yees are takin it way too seriously lads .......

rodders wrote:I think its time to knock this overhyped Leinster v Muntser thing on the head. The fans and players have lost the run of themselves.

Sure its only a bit of craic to warm yees up for the 6N, yees are takin it way too seriously lads .......

Rodders you are a wise old sage. It is a load of nonsense isnt it. I think we can all agree on that.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:i have to say Sin E is total poison and for me sums up everything that is wrong with Irish rugby. i agree that there are many like him on both sides of the fence and i find both one eyed supporters completely idiotic. personally i think he should be banned. you only have to look at the articles that he destroys to see what a destructive influence he is on these boards.

i am sorry for the personal attack and i expect a slap on the wrist but this guy has been ruining good debates on irish rugby too long.

Normally I ignore these personal abusive swipes at me - but what destructive influence? Representing a different view of things? Is Paul O'Connell & Rob Penney also 'poison' because they don't hold the same views that Joe Schmidt has on the citing process? If you can't handle different views and have to resort to abusive comments, you should avoid places where people might disagree and stick with your own tribe.

Guns