Match Thread: Tigers vs Quins

[nathan]

First topic message reminder :

Tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigers!!

Looking out of the window the weather is pretty dire, very windy and wet! lol

[Hound of Harrow]

As - about 13:30 on Friday. Dreamer gets in around the same time. And yes, Hamilton destroyed Ireland's line out.

Back to the thread - I think Tom Youngs has a fine season for club and country, hence being awarded AP player of the season against some good competition.

The scrum can be a bit of a lottery with teams winning the hit tending to take individual scrums. The new law on the scrum next season should see hookers like Youngs thrive.

[thebluesmancometh]

Not to mention the Leicester scrum got a tonking today, V the Osprey

One penalty conceded eachQuins massively on top, at no scrum was either Crane or Youngs under pressure (except a large number). How is that a tonking? Vs the Ospreys the Ospreys lost their loosehead due to regular scrum infringement (due to injuries taking it's toll and the replacements being kids) how's that being dominated?

The only game Cole has struggled up front this season was vs France (and Wales, and Italy where he gave penalties away) where Domingo was awesome. Against Wales it was Jones doing the damage by binding on the arm and driving across the loosehead through Youngs like he wasn't there.

[nathan]

nathan

Don't get me wrong, I'm not slating the guy, what he's done is impressive, and he is a good player. He is a work in progress and he may well become a very good int player, but for me he is a real weakness for England currently.

From what I see of Cole he is a very strong scrummager getting targetted on his inside shoulder and constantly being turned in too easily, he's getting a bad rep and I remember the guys at both the rugby club and Scrum V talking about Coles inability to scrummage before the Wales game, I personally think they were all wrong and it's just a lack of support, grunt and nous from the hooker.

I really want to see Cole play with Hibbard inside him for the lions, it'll really highlight Coles abilities.

I know you're not slating him and it's your opinion but i (or a hell of alot of others players/fans/coaches) just don't see what your saying. I can understand the criticism of his throwing as it's sometimes dodgy.

Sometimes? Go and find a game where he hasn't misthrown at least 3 balls, or where a scrum he has been involved in hasn't given away more penalties than it's won!

I can see why people like him, he is a good ball player, and is an excellent Leicester player, similarly to Ashton and Brown they both play extremely well in the AP, and europe, but the attribute that stands them out at club level isn't enough to carry them beyond their weaknesses on the international stage.

England had the worst lineout in the 6N, and one of the worst scrum records, does that sound like a good England team to you? England are renowned for doing the basics right, their set peice is brutal and they are very powerfull, players like Parling, Croft are very good lineout operators, Cole, Robshaw, Wood, Morgan provide the grunt and power, and I think someone like Lindsay will fit in nicely (in a season or 2) and Hartley is a nasty little **** (good if he's on your side) but Youngs just doesn't offer anything

of the top of my head, the New Zealand game where there was 1 long throw. I'm sure there are many other examples. I can't help but think youv'e dreamt these stats or your just making them up.

[nathan]

on a side note, it's a sad day seeing castro's last game at home

[LondonTiger]

Tigers vs toulon HC semi. One overthrow and a totally dominat Tigers scrum.
Tigers v Ospreys HC 2nd round. No overthrows, Tigers dominated the Ospreys scrum.

Today from memory and excuse me for having been at the game so not got the advantage of replays and ecstatic - but one overthrow, one penalty conceded by Tigers at scrum time and two gained.

Couple of major linebreaks today, one in the first half where he mad about 30m running straight towards me.

I have concerns about his tight work, but did not think there was an issue today.

[Manu's Boxing Coach]

on a side note, it's a sad day seeing castro's last game at home

Very much so, seeing him in tears at the end shows what a true great he is. Castro will undoubtedly go down as one of the best players ever to wear the Tigers number 3 jersey.

[LondonTiger]

on a side note, it's a sad day seeing castro's last game at home

Huge cheer for him when he cam on. Another massive cheer first time Murphy came on as a waterboy. WR today was the noisiest it has been this season. Quins fans deserve a lot of credit for that. The couple of thousand they brought made a lot of noise so we had to really ramp up the volume. Quins fans were brilliant, and in the first half that was the best I have seen Quins play in 2013.


How good was the passage of play before Goneva's try. Both sides were extremely positive, running the ball defending like mad and securing turnovers. Ball must have changed hands 4 or 5 times? The sort of ambition to play rugby that we often do not see in the NH.

For me the absolute game changer was Care being sin-binned. He was the leader of the Quins attack and they looked rudderless without him. While it would have been hard to play 10 minutes without a SH - I feel that COS made a mistake by immediately bringing Dickson on as it meant that Quins were completely off the pace and Care could not return. I agree that Care was better yhan Ben in the first half - helped that for the first 25 minutes Quins were superb at the breakdown and in supporting each other. Tigers dragged themselves back into the game and Benny had a huge part to play in that. In the second half as Tigers attacked the club house end I could see from the other end how he was directing affairs, almost like a French scrum half. He created a lot of space for tigers backs.

Still absolutely buzzed with that game though - cannot speak, youngest daughter is bouncing for joy - even if we did get rather wet. Lord it was wet - probably did not show on TV but conditions were dire and the ground looked really greasy and soft.

Finally Matt Tait. Legen - wait for it - dary.

[nathan]

on a side note, it's a sad day seeing castro's last game at home

Very much so, seeing him in tears at the end shows what a true great he is. Castro will undoubtedly go down as one of the best players ever to wear the Tigers number 3 jersey.

yeah he's pretty sad about leaving, he wants to play rugby so he felt he had to move on.

http://instagram.com/p/ZKzKyaQnk1/

[LondonTiger]

Harlequins director of rugby Conor O'Shea:

"In the second half Leicester were absolutely outstanding, but I will have nothing but admiration and pride for the way we came up here and tried to play.

"We didn't go into our shells - we gave it our best shot - but in the second half it was an absolutely magnificent performance by Leicester.

"I thought we played pretty well today. We just came up against a force in the second half that played at a level we couldn't match.

"We knew it was going to be ferocious. We probably took them by surprise in the first half the way we went about our business, and I don't want people to forget just how well we played in that first 40 minutes.

"But they just ramped it up. They were brilliant today, they were like rabid animals at times the way they were going into it, and sometimes you lose composure away from home.

"If we had played like we did in the first half against the majority of teams then we would have been out of sight and over the hill at half-time."

[LondonTiger]

Watching the Full Match replay on AP site. ITV commentator seems to think Niall Morris is Niall Quinn!!!

[nathan]

Watching the Full Match replay on AP site. ITV commentator seems to think Niall Morris is Niall Quinn!!!

yeah i noticed that! lol

[doctor_grey]

What is it about those feckin' Tigers that they seem to ramp it up as soon a the spring hits? They looked really strong yesterday. Not sure if any team could have beaten them. Simply ground the Quins down.
Strange they haven't been able to bring that to the Heineken Cup in recent seasons.

Not feeling terribly confident about my Saints today. But hopefully Saints can get the upper hand quickly amongst the forwards. If so, then they have a shot. Certainly don't want to get in a kicking duel.

[formerly known as Sam]

The HEC is normally over for us by the time we hit our spring momentum. We ran Toulon close though and we only needed a decision or bounce of the ball to go the other way and we could have won that. That's the game though. We're building the team up nicely for next season, It's not all gone smoothly but we should be in a good position if we can add a couple of signings.

Saints need to target Sarries in the maul, scrum and in the tight exchanges. Keep hold of the ball and wear down the Sarries mobile pack. Open up in the second half when Sarries have had to work hard in defence and the line speed has slowed.

[B91212]

Really enjoyed the game as a neutral. Surprised nobody has mentioned Kitchener, thought he put in a great shift in the loose and for me should be going to Argentina in place of Attwood. Cole did well in the second half after he seemed to get a bit wound up early on and Croft was immense even without his score.

Happy to see Tait going so well and am glad he has the summer off to do a full pre-season. Isn't Allen undergoing surgery in the off season and so is unavailable for Argentina otherwise would have been selected with Barrett not going?

[LondonTiger]

Kitch has been fantastic across the whole season for us. I think that he is the Leicester lock more likely to have a decent England career - rather than Slater - and if slater's injury does not heal in time I hope he replaces him on the Argie tour.

[Big]

Doctor Grey

I think it's all to do with Craig White...

He was the conditioning coach for Wasps when the play offs were introduced and did a very good job of getting them to peak at the right time. Having learnt from our playoff defeats to them Tigers bought their man and promptly won 3 of the next 4. We only had him for a season or so I think, but presumably his systems have stayed in place (ditto for Wasps after he left) and that's why we peak at the right stage in the season.

The next team to get him was Wales in 2008 (presumably the Gatland link from his time at Wasps), and they've not done too badly either.

Have a conditioning regime that gets the players to peak for the bussiness end of the season does mean not playing so well in the early mid part of the season - which is why I think we struggle more with the Heineken Cup.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

What is it about those feckin' Tigers that they seem to ramp it up as soon a the spring hits? They looked really strong yesterday. Not sure if any team could have beaten them. Simply ground the Quins down.
Strange they haven't been able to bring that to the Heineken Cup in recent seasons.

Not feeling terribly confident about my Saints today. But hopefully Saints can get the upper hand quickly amongst the forwards. If so, then they have a shot. Certainly don't want to get in a kicking duel.

Celebrate the EM final doc. Prescribe yourself diazepam. Clill and enjoy. Your paranoia about the 'Evil Empire up the road' is worrying.

Its not Barad-dûr v Rivendell you know. You've already defeated the Nazgul their orcish host.

[LondonTiger]

With only 7500 tickets apiece to the finalists Twickenham will be an interesting mix of fans.

[LondonTiger]

Tigers have sold out their allocation of tickets. Glad we got ours on Saturday.

[nathan]

Wish I could of gone, climbing Ben Nevis instead so doubt I'll even know the scores.

[formerly known as Sam]

7500 tickets per finalist is moronic. Who decides this jibberish. Saints, Quins, Tigers and maybe Sarries can all sell out their own stadiums as can Glaws and Exeter (5th and 6th) wouldn't it be reasonable to withhold more than the paltry number of tickets they have done for the AP show piece event?

[Portnoy's Complaint]

7500 tickets per finalist is moronic. Who decides this jibberish. Saints, Quins, Tigers and maybe Sarries can all sell out their own stadiums as can Glaws and Exeter (5th and 6th) wouldn't it be reasonable to withhold more than the paltry number of tickets they have done for the AP show piece event?

That is part of the popular appeal of the playoffs, Sam. an end of term bash for everyone.
A Cup Final for the masses apparently.

Ticketmaster needs feeding though as not everyone can get tickets through their club.

[ChequeredJersey]

Well won, Tigers, good luck at Twickers

[Geordie]

Been hearing some seriosuly good reviews about Croft...was he that good?

In what areas?

[broadlandboy]

Yes
try saving tackle,try from half way out sprinting several Quins' backs & involved in the tight

[maverickmak]

Croft has been in exceptional form ever since his full return from injury. In all aspects. He has only had 1 bad game, and that was against Wales, and every England player was bad that day. Remarkable really, considering his terrible injury.

[Portnoy's Complaint]

Check out the try-saver on Care and the try GF.

[Geordie]

How was his tight work, rucking and defence...

Do you guys think he is Englands best 6 ahead of Tom Wood?

[Portnoy's Complaint]

How was his tight work, rucking and defence...

Do you guys think he is Englands best 6 ahead of Tom Wood?

I'd say so. He was supreme vs Toulon and had he not gone off early, it's not unreasonable to think they'd have made the semis. His line-out takes alone were a beauty to behold.

[killer938]

His all round game has been exceptional, the extra weight he put on while he had the injury has definitely helped him hit rucks harder and helped him when he is over the ball but he hasn't lost any of his pace either as the two incidents people have mentioned show. Obviously his lineout ability hasn't changed either.

I am a Leicester fan and so obviously a little biased in this but I would have him ahead of Wood at 6 but that is just my opinion.

[formerly known as Sam]

I'd have as the 6 for the Lions. He looks fresh, is enjoying his rugby and is in good form. That bit of extra weight, as said above, has given him an extra edge.

[funnyExiledScot]

I was thinking whilst watching the game what a good decision Gatland has made taking Croft with the Lions. It's not a decision I'd have made personally at the time, but he's really fresh and showing excellent form.

I rate Tom Wood very highly indeed and would have taken him, but given Croft's form, I'd say it's Lydiate rather than Croft who is lucky to have taken his place.

What is certainly true is that Gatland, in POC, Gray, Croft and Lydiate, has several options in the forwards that certainly won't be jaded having played too much rugby this season. All these guys should be pretty fresh come the business end of the tour, whereas the likes of Launchbury, Ryan, Brown, Wood and Robshaw have played an awful lot this season. That freshness aspect may well pay dividends.

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