Wilko - European Player of the Year!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22590414

One more accolade for the CV.

JD was right 'Wilkinson has had his day'

European Player of the Year & still going strong....

Clermont backs coach Alex King, who joins Northampton in the summer, could only stand and ruefully admire Jonny Wilkinson’s performance. King has no doubt that Wilkinson ought to be heading to Australia with the Lions.
“If I was Warren Gatland I’d take him tomorrow,” said King. “He is a match-winner. You’ve seen that today. You’ve seen it through his whole career. If the Lions want to win the series you’ve got to have players like that in the squad.”
Kennedy had similar words of praise. “Jonny practises so hard and he deserves everything,” he said. “We are so grateful to him as a team because when we are at home sitting on our backsides he is out there kicking, working for moments like that. He hasn’t missed a kick in the quarter, semi or final. He is absolutely phenomenal.”

So he won the WORLD player of the year in 2003 voted on by a panel of neutrals. He as now won the European player of the yar voted on by a panel of neutrals yet there are still soe celts on here that try to run him down........

He is still the best known Rugby name in the world. Still at that superstar recognition level.

Jonny is the consumate professional. One of the best sporting role models in the world.

wrfc1980 wrote:So he won the WORLD player of the year in 2003 voted on by a panel of neutrals. He as now won the European player of the yar voted on by a panel of neutrals yet there are still soe celts on here that try to run him down........

All that suggests is that for 10 years the neutrals thought he was pants.

I was at the match and thought Wilko was quite poor in the final. Yes he kicked all his points but did very little else to be honest.

He kicked most of his posession away aimlessly and his passing wasnt much better. Not sure what the big deal with this guy is to be honest.

doctor_grey wrote:He is still the best known Rugby name in the world. Still at that superstar recognition level.

Jonny is the consumate professional. One of the best sporting role models in the world.

Im sure Dan Carter is more famous than Jonny Wilkinson. Wilko is a great role model, a very likable guy and a good player. However, because of his looks and marketability the English press tend to get carried away about how good he actually is.

Bottom line is he was poor enough in the final on Saturday. However, he did get some crucial scores for Toulon throughout their campaign.

GunsGerms wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:He is still the best known Rugby name in the world. Still at that superstar recognition level.

Jonny is the consumate professional. One of the best sporting role models in the world.

Im sure Dan Carter is more famous than Jonny Wilkinson. Wilko is a great role model, a very likable guy and a good player. However, because of his looks and marketability the English press tend to get carried away about how good he actually is.

Bottom line is he was poor enough in the final on Saturday. However, he did get some crucial scores for Toulon throughout their campaign.

and yet he still wins player of the tounament voted by neutrals....

nathan wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:He is still the best known Rugby name in the world. Still at that superstar recognition level.

Jonny is the consumate professional. One of the best sporting role models in the world.

Im sure Dan Carter is more famous than Jonny Wilkinson. Wilko is a great role model, a very likable guy and a good player. However, because of his looks and marketability the English press tend to get carried away about how good he actually is.

Bottom line is he was poor enough in the final on Saturday. However, he did get some crucial scores for Toulon throughout their campaign.

and yet he still wins player of the tounament voted by neutrals....

Player of the year nearly always comes from the HC winning side. Wilko is possibly the highest profile player in that team. Given that they play 10 man horrible rugby they didnt really have any other standout contenders.

Guns....his creative and offensive play is not there these days and has not been for some time. He can pass well and bring others into play, but he has has not interested defenders with his own running for some time.

But his defensive play is still awesome. He made countless tackles and really made it difficult for Clermont to go down the middle. And he did his usual goalkicking stuff, which with all the pressure and only 1 point between the sides is remarkable. Fair play to him and I would love to see him on the bench as the back up to Sexton.

hugehandoff wrote:Guns....his creative and offensive play is not there these days and has not been for some time. He can pass well and bring others into play, but he has has not interested defenders with his own running for some time.

But his defensive play is still awesome. He made countless tackles and really made it difficult for Clermont to go down the middle. And he did his usual goalkicking stuff, which with all the pressure and only 1 point between the sides is remarkable. Fair play to him and I would love to see him on the bench as the back up to Sexton.

His passing was very poor and his kicking out of hand even worse. Yes he did defend quite well and kick his goals but I cant understand all the calls for his inclusion in the Lions squad given that Biggar, Madigan, Hook and Floor can all do what he can do and more.

GunsGerms wrote:

hugehandoff wrote:Guns....his creative and offensive play is not there these days and has not been for some time. He can pass well and bring others into play, but he has has not interested defenders with his own running for some time.

But his defensive play is still awesome. He made countless tackles and really made it difficult for Clermont to go down the middle. And he did his usual goalkicking stuff, which with all the pressure and only 1 point between the sides is remarkable. Fair play to him and I would love to see him on the bench as the back up to Sexton.

His passing was very poor and his kicking out of hand even worse. Yes he did defend quite well and kick his goals but I cant understand all the calls for his inclusion in the Lions squad given that Biggar, Madigan, Hook and Floor can all do what he can do and more.

Guns...the thing is that they cannot do what he can do. His priceless gift is being able to keep the scoreboard ticking over under the most intense pressure. All the others have more creative ability, but are liable to crack every now and then , which JW does not seem to do. For a one off Lions series I think he is the perfect replacement 10 to Sexton. Even Sexton says he wants him there as he wants to learn from him.

hugehandoff wrote:
Guns...the thing is that they cannot do what he can do. His priceless gift is being able to keep the scoreboard ticking over under the most intense pressure. All the others have more creative ability, but are liable to crack every now and then , which JW does not seem to do. For a one off Lions series I think he is the perfect replacement 10 to Sexton. Even Sexton says he wants him there as he wants to learn from him.

At Toulon he plays behind the biggest pack in the world in terms of club rugby. They search out pens and Wilko converts them. Thats all he does. Toulon are the least creative winning side in Heineken cup history. Any OH could do what Wilko does at Toulon. Would he be European player of the year if he played for Newcastle still? Of course he wouldnt.

I wouldnt be disapointed if Wilko was drafted into the Lions as he wont let you down and he does what he does well. I just think there are better players in reserve and that people tend to get very carried away when it comes to JW.

I don't like the way the media in the UK fawn all over him, but I respect his abilities and his temprement. A fantastic player and a Gentleman of the game.

At least the media have picked a nice guy to fawn over!

I like Wilko but agree he didn't have a very good game at the weekend.

He kicked almost as much as he passed, he turned the ball over 5 times and his tackle completion rate was 67%.

Well, if you're into the turgid boredom of perfection, then I guess he's not bad.

He's a vital part of the Toulon side, and Toulon won the HC basing the team around Wilkinson and his boot. He deserves the accolade therefore as the most influential player of the tournament this year. If you need to win ugly, there is no better fly half in the NH.

That he was the second best fly half on the pitch in the final is also true.

In terms of the Lions, I wouldn't want 2 of the 3 fly halves to be Farrell and Wilkinson. The Lions need a playmaker, especially with the meat heads in the running at centre and on the wings. If there was a case for Wilkinson, it was to go in place of Farrell, not along side him.

GunsGerms wrote:

hugehandoff wrote:
Guns...the thing is that they cannot do what he can do. His priceless gift is being able to keep the scoreboard ticking over under the most intense pressure. All the others have more creative ability, but are liable to crack every now and then , which JW does not seem to do. For a one off Lions series I think he is the perfect replacement 10 to Sexton. Even Sexton says he wants him there as he wants to learn from him.

At Toulon he plays behind the biggest pack in the world in terms of club rugby. They search out pens and Wilko converts them. Thats all he does. Toulon are the least creative winning side in Heineken cup history. Any OH could do what Wilko does at Toulon. Would he be European player of the year if he played for Newcastle still? Of course he wouldnt.

I wouldnt be disapointed if Wilko was drafted into the Lions as he wont let you down and he does what he does well. I just think there are better players in reserve and that people tend to get very carried away when it comes to JW.

Nah he'd be world player of the year...

funnyExiledScot wrote:In terms of the Lions, I wouldn't want 2 of the 3 fly halves to be Farrell and Wilkinson. The Lions need a playmaker, especially with the meat heads in the running at centre and on the wings. If there was a case for Wilkinson, it was to go in place of Farrell, not along side him.

Well said.

I agree. Farrell is a younger fitter carbon copy of Wilko. I wouldnt see any need to take them both.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

hugehandoff wrote:
Guns...the thing is that they cannot do what he can do. His priceless gift is being able to keep the scoreboard ticking over under the most intense pressure. All the others have more creative ability, but are liable to crack every now and then , which JW does not seem to do. For a one off Lions series I think he is the perfect replacement 10 to Sexton. Even Sexton says he wants him there as he wants to learn from him.

At Toulon he plays behind the biggest pack in the world in terms of club rugby. They search out pens and Wilko converts them. Thats all he does. Toulon are the least creative winning side in Heineken cup history. Any OH could do what Wilko does at Toulon. Would he be European player of the year if he played for Newcastle still? Of course he wouldnt.

I wouldnt be disapointed if Wilko was drafted into the Lions as he wont let you down and he does what he does well. I just think there are better players in reserve and that people tend to get very carried away when it comes to JW.

Nah he'd be world player of the year...

Defeated B&I cup out half Johnny Wilkinson has been voted World Player of the Year...

...It's believable, that's what I like about it!

Very harsh on Nalaga, Fofana, and Sivivatu who looked the real stars of the tournament.

At times these awards are ridiculous. Some of the IRB World Player Awards have been rather odd.

In some ways this is a crazy call - after all Wilkinson was a long way from being the best performer, for me that should have been Fofana.

But, if you look at the player who was most responsible for his team winning the competition, well then it makes perfect sense.

LondonTiger wrote:At times these awards are ridiculous. Some of the IRB World Player Awards have been rather odd.

In some ways this is a crazy call - after all Wilkinson was a long way from being the best performer, for me that should have been Fofana.

But, if you look at the player who was most responsible for his team winning the competition, well then it makes perfect sense.

Carl Heyman?

Because of johnies status he brings more than just his awesome goal kicking and defense. He is a talisman, all the squad respect him, as most grew up wanting to be him, Australia will always view johny as the pomme that beat them in 2003 in there own back yard , they massively respect him, having wilko on board gives the lions a psychological advantage. He will also form part of the leadship, mentoring group with bod, poc and Sam, wilko has done a lions tour in oz and a Rwc in oz....surely he must go ???

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:At times these awards are ridiculous. Some of the IRB World Player Awards have been rather odd.

In some ways this is a crazy call - after all Wilkinson was a long way from being the best performer, for me that should have been Fofana.

But, if you look at the player who was most responsible for his team winning the competition, well then it makes perfect sense.

Carl Heyman?

Really? Are we talking about the Carl Hayman who was turned inside out by Ayerza in the 1/4 final and was largely responsible for Tigers taking a 12pt lead? As opposed to Wilkinson who nailed every single kick at goal in the 1/4 final. And the semi final. And the final. High pressure matches and every kick nailed, through the middle.

I have never been a huge JW fan - but if you had swapped him for any other 10 in the competition it is highly unlikely that Toulon would have won the tournament - or even made the semis.

sirtidychris wrote:Because of johnies status he brings more than just his awesome goal kicking and defense. He is a talisman, all the squad respect him, as most grew up wanting to be him, Australia will always view johny as the pomme that beat them in 2003 in there own back yard , they massively respect him, having wilko on board gives the lions a psychological advantage. He will also form part of the leadship, mentoring group with bod, poc and Sam, wilko has done a lions tour in oz and a Rwc in oz....surely he must go ???

The Aussies may also remember Wilko as the Pomme that threw an intercept pass to Joe Roff and lost the Lions the series in 2001.

Wilko is a class act off the pitch and a very decent player on it. He does have lots of strengths but has weaknesses too. I just feel that there are players that are more deserving of the 3rd OH place:

Biggar, Madigan and maybe even Hook or Flood are all probably better players right now.

Agreed - for me Wilkinson could have gone in place of Farrell as the solid but unspectacular option (and potentially a "finisher" to come off the bench in the Tests), but with Sexton and Farrell in the squad already, I'd far rather James Hook or Ian Madigan go along as third choice cover.

Just to add, despite what Ive said about him I wouldnt be too concerned if Wilko was added to the squad as Im sure he would do a good job for the Lions.

LondonTiger wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:At times these awards are ridiculous. Some of the IRB World Player Awards have been rather odd.

In some ways this is a crazy call - after all Wilkinson was a long way from being the best performer, for me that should have been Fofana.

But, if you look at the player who was most responsible for his team winning the competition, well then it makes perfect sense.

Carl Heyman?

Really? Are we talking about the Carl Hayman who was turned inside out by Ayerza in the 1/4 final and was largely responsible for Tigers taking a 12pt lead? As opposed to Wilkinson who nailed every single kick at goal in the 1/4 final. And the semi final. And the final. High pressure matches and every kick nailed, through the middle.

I have never been a huge JW fan - but if you had swapped him for any other 10 in the competition it is highly unlikely that Toulon would have won the tournament - or even made the semis.

Carl Heyman certainly won a massive part of the final at the scrum for Toulon this weekend. I apologise, but I fell asleep during the Toulon Tigers match at half time, I am sure I wasn't the only one.

Regarding your comment on JW you are absolutely talking out your backside. The Toulon pack deserve much more credit than you unjustly give them all JW has to do is be averagely good at knocking over kicks.

When he wasn't tackling or kicking goals he was not playing well at all. Giving away tonnes of good possession from poor kicking straight to the best back three in the tournament. (Of those it is Nalaga and Sivivatu that make it the best back three not Byrne, though he hasn't had a bad season, still got a great Garryowen).

There are many better flyhalfs in Europe, but even a player like O'Gara could have done a job better at RC Toulon.

Point is that as many here have said, these awards do not always reflect an opinion of the majority of fans who rather than value a goal kicker, take their enjoyment from flare, endeavour and try scoring.

Very harsh on Nalaga, Fofana and Sivivatu equally so on the Toulon pack who actually won the game.

You are so contrite it is ridiculous.

I love it how people slam JW for only being able to play behind a massive pack and then laud Dan Carter like he performs behind a bunch of paper tigers!

No one has ever dominated NZ upfront during Henry's reign... and added to that forward power they have had the best openside in the history of the game making sure he gets decent ball retention to run his backline.

Is Carter a better player.. sure but as much as JW had the benefits of playing with a good team around him, Dan Carter has also had that... and he had that for an awful lot longer than JW had.

Dan Carter had players like Umaga, Smith, Williams, Nonu, Mauger, McAllister to play off.... over the same time JW had a 37yr old Mike Catt, Toby Flood, Dan Hipkiss, Mike Tindall, Olly Barkley etc.

Slightly different level of class wouldn't you say. Carter was surrounded by great players throughout his career. Take away Will Greenwood and the rest wouldn't be worthy enough to clean Carter's allumni's boots.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:You are so contrite it is ridiculous.

Are you sure you know what that means? Contrite is when you're really sorry for something you've done wrong. I don't think that is fully applicable in this case.





EDIT: unless it's some cool new slang I'm not down with.

Back on topic. European player of the year as meaningless as it always is, just as meaningless as world player of the year. Only one that has any meaning at all is players player.

I saw it on another thread and thought it was a cool phrase. I'm going to put it on a t-shirt.

If I say any more I'm going to get in trouble

You should sell them. I reckon it'll take off

But it's okay to run down former IRB player of the year Shane Williams then? You English are a fickle bunch!
I really like Wilkinson as a player and as a person. This is such a novelty award though ; Fofana for me.

fa0019 wrote:

No one has ever dominated NZ upfront during Henry's reign... and added to that forward power they have had the best openside in the history of the game making sure he gets decent ball retention to run his backline.

I have seen South Africa do just that. Surely you have too? Australia also did it the last time they won the Tri-Nations.

If there were an award for guts, professionalism and integrity, JW would be one of the favourites. In terms of his game, his strengths are great strengths, but he has fairly substantial limitations, pointed out in this thread. But in the circumstances in which he'd be coming out to the Lions, which would presumably be some sort of emergency, he probably gives you more confidence than any of the other fly-half candidates that he would step in and do a decent job.

I think it shows that after Sexton we're struggling a bit.

It's a bit alarming that either due to lack of form, substandard quality or inexperience it's not a very strong position for the Lions.

I'd love to see Jonny out there.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:I think it shows that after Sexton we're struggling a bit.

It's a bit alarming that either due to lack of form, substandard quality or inexperience it's not a very strong position for the Lions.

I'd love to see Jonny out there.

I wouldve agree'd until recently, if his body doesn't have a tour in him, then he doesn't have a test in him either IMHO, let alone 3 in 3 weeks. This business of being asked and the whole 'call back if needed' thing is a smokescreen IMHO, it was an olive branch from Gats to the media.

Sexton is by far the best 10 we have, and Farell deserves to tour, if Gats didn't hate Biggar so much he wouldve been selected too. As it stands we have a weakness an Sexton has a huge target on his back, so for this alone I think it was a mistake not to take a third option.

Since when did Gatland hate Biggar?

Since he stopped hating everything east of Cardiff?

FH is a potential weakness for the Lions. Sexton was always going to go & if you take Gatlands word that he only wanted to take 2 fly halves -
The choice would have been between Farrell & Biggar & on this rare occasion Wales didn't get the '50/50' call.

Other player decisions post Wales v England clearly went in favour of Wales something which Gatland indicated would happen & the players picked showed he was a man of his word.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

FH is a potential weakness for the Lions. Sexton was always going to go & if you take Gatlands word that he only wanted to take 2 fly halves -
The choice would have been between Farrell & Biggar & on this rare occasion Wales didn't get the '50/50' call.

Other player decisions post Wales v England clearly went in favour of Wales something which Gatland indicated would happen & the players picked showed he was a man of his word.

Is that not the correct decision to make? When one team thrash another in a vital crunch game it surely shows that one side were better than the other. If you are selecting from both sides your decision is un-arguable.

Regarding Biggar vs Farrell, I don't think they have made the right decision at all. Farrell has proved that he doesn't handle pressure well, when Biggar has done the opposite. I guess that Andy Farrell has convinced the other selectors that he'll give his son a good kick up the backside?

maes,

You obviously don't rate Gatland if you seriously think Farrell was chosen because his dad asked for a favour.

I don't think Gatts is the type of guy to let someone twist his arm.

Have to agree with Cyril here. Farrell is there for me on merit, and not because of his dad. Biggar had a solid season and it would have been close, but Farrell showed more since he came to the England set up than Biggar for me. I still think Biggar will go on to be a very good player for Wales, but now just wasn't his Lions time IMO (unless injuries to the selected 10s and Wilko occur).

[quote="maestegmafia"]

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Regarding Biggar vs Farrell, I don't think they have made the right decision at all. Farrell has proved that he doesn't handle pressure well, when Biggar has done the opposite.

Selective memory there? Sure Farrell has had a tough end to the season, and I would not have selected him. But Biggar has also shown at times a tendency to crumble under pressure. His performance in his only AI was not good (pressure caused by needing to perform well to oust Priestland) while in the HEC his intercepted pass and poor kicking sparked what was in the end a demolition at Welford Rd, while in the reverse fixture only his inability to hit a barn door from the kicking tee stopped Ospreys being out of sight. On that day Ospreys were the better team, except for Biggar's poor showing.

at times both players are cool, at others they struggle. that is life with young players and usually they develop. The Quality of the 10s available to Gatland was not good.

[quote="LondonTiger"]

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Regarding Biggar vs Farrell, I don't think they have made the right decision at all. Farrell has proved that he doesn't handle pressure well, when Biggar has done the opposite.

Selective memory there? Sure Farrell has had a tough end to the season, and I would not have selected him. But Biggar has also shown at times a tendency to crumble under pressure. His performance in his only AI was not good (pressure caused by needing to perform well to oust Priestland) while in the HEC his intercepted pass and poor kicking sparked what was in the end a demolition at Welford Rd, while in the reverse fixture only his inability to hit a barn door from the kicking tee stopped Ospreys being out of sight. On that day Ospreys were the better team, except for Biggar's poor showing.

at times both players are cool, at others they struggle. that is life with young players and usually they develop. The Quality of the 10s available to Gatland was not good.

Regarding Biggar I was referring to the Two Pro 12 Finals in Dublin in which he was superb, as well as the playoffs and ends of season going into those, where Ospreys were not topping the league. That and guiding Wales from an awful first half drubbing in Cardiff vs Ireland to winning the Six Nations. In the same period I don't think we have seen anything comparable from Farrell, just hype about potential which recently when given opportunity hasn't resulted in anything but failure.

Farrell made the tour, defending why is tantamount to speculation that he may come good, he hasn't proved he is any good yet I certainly haven't seen any evidence of him being "Cool". He hasn't won anything, he hasn't shown a level head under pressure, he hasn't shown he can bounce back from a bad game, he hasn't really done anything. Un-like his father who is the most likely reason he got selected.

Well if Biggar is to be praised for his cool head and play in Rabo finals, why does the same not apply to Farrell? After all he was a key part in their victory over Tigers in an AP final.

As I said both players have potential, but both are flawed. Both have good games, both have poor.

As to why Farrell made the tour? Well Gatland has never seemed to be a big fan of Biggar, so it is probably more due to that.

LondonTiger wrote:Well if Biggar is to be praised for his cool head and play in Rabo finals, why does the same not apply to Farrell? After all he was a key part in their victory over Tigers in an AP final.

As I said both players have potential, but both are flawed. Both have good games, both have poor.

As to why Farrell made the tour? Well Gatland has never seemed to be a big fan of Biggar, so it is probably more due to that.

Fair point Farrell did not lose his head two years ago when he kicked five penalties as Tigers played all the rugby. Having watched the games I was referring to with Biggar at the helm compared to Farrell I would say that your example only reiterates my position.

Lets see what happens on tour. But Farrell's inclusion has a hell of a lot more to prove than most.