Healy Cited

Slight deja vu I know, but as the other thread is concentrating on the choice of Corbisiero to join as cover, I thought we should have a separate one to discuss the citing.

http://www.lionsrugby.com/news/11983.php#.Ua99_Zx5F9U

For me the Force scrum half was grinding his forearm into Healy's face, who was lying trapped on the ground.

Lions bite fury: Irish prop Healy faces being sent home in disgrace

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2336236/British-Irish-Lions-2013-Cian-Healy-cited-alleged-bite-Alex-Corbisiero-called-up.html#ixzz2VPmR9eQj

In an incident reminiscent of Hartley's alleged attack on Ferris, presumably the same storm of opprobrium will descend on Healy.

Pointless load of nonsense. None of the cameras showed even a suggestion of a bite. (Not saying one didn't occur). From the replays they showed, Sheehan's arm was barely in the vicinity of Healy's face for more than a fraction of a second. Even Sheehan said at half time that “I don’t know if it was an accident or on purpose.”.

clivemcl wrote:Pointless load of nonsense. None of the cameras showed even a suggestion of a bite. (Not saying one didn't occur). From the replays they showed, Sheehan's arm was barely in the vicinity of Healy's face for more than a fraction of a second. Even Sheehan said at half time that “I don’t know if it was an accident or on purpose.”.

Same as Hartley (was he fish-hooked?) then.
The citing committee will, I'm sure, take past behaviour (e.g. violent conduct) into account.

sheehan said before the game he was going to wind up the lions . u would know if someone bit u or not on purpose .

If Healy has indeed bitten him I'll give him every criticism I've given Hartley. For now we don't know. No tv cameras have shown it so we await verdict.

jimmyinthewell68 wrote: sheehan said before the game he was going to wind up the lions . u would know if someone bit u or not on purpose .

Ozzie scrummie in sledging accusation shock horror.

red_stag wrote:If Healy has indeed bitten him I'll give him every criticism I've given Hartley. For now we don't know. No tv cameras have shown it so we await verdict.

Staggy
Do you reackon biting is as bad as swearing at the ref?

aucklandlaurie wrote:

red_stag wrote:If Healy has indeed bitten him I'll give him every criticism I've given Hartley. For now we don't know. No tv cameras have shown it so we await verdict.

Staggy
Do you reackon biting is as bad as swearing at the ref?

They are referring to the ban Hartley got for biting Ferris.

I think he did bite him. When Sheehan accused Healy a little after the event Healy lifted his arm up to his face, miming (in my mind) "you had your arm over my face".

Let's just hope Sheeham doesn't lie 'misremember' at the hearing like Ferris

https://www.606v2.com/t26125-biting-in-eng-v-ire?

Ten pages of 606v2's balanced and objective debate.

I will refer you to the very good answer from Standulsterman...

'I would rather ferris (Sheehan) keep quiet and sort it out at the next ruck.

That said I don't know to what extent it he was bitten. At the minute I think it is much ado about nothing'

aucklandlaurie wrote:

red_stag wrote:If Healy has indeed bitten him I'll give him every criticism I've given Hartley. For now we don't know. No tv cameras have shown it so we await verdict.

Staggy
Do you reackon biting is as bad as swearing at the ref?

Definitely its more severe than swearing at a ref. No question IMO.

Maybe they aren't being fed enough by their chef?

Healy does look like someone who can down a 1kg rump steak.

I saw the incident on Sky. Healy is lying on his back at the bottom of a ruck with his head on the ground. The Force player moves his forearm and puts it on Healy's face around the mouth area. As far as I can tell at no point did Healys head move toward the player's arm. From there its impossible to tell if there was a bite but you can see pressure coming from the Force guys arm onto Healy's head.

Its a shame that this has happened as it will just add fuel to the fire of Healy's critics. Ill reserve judgement until after the hearing but there is TV footage whereas in the Hartley case there was not so I expect a more definitive judgement. I also refuse to compare this to the Hartley Ferris incident as no one actually knows what really happened there bar Ferris and Hartley.

Does anyone know if it was the Force management who raised this with the citing comissioner or if the citing comissioner picked it up themselves?

If this holds up I will be amazed and it just show the bias of the Australian citing commission. There is no evidence and the 'victim' doesn't even know if it it happened or not.

Even if it did happen, would the fact that he was getting a forearm driven into his face not excuse him? Remember when Hartley had Pedrie Wannenburg in a headlock and Wannenburg bit him, but nobody cared because Hartley deserved it and Wannenburg had no option?

JmD wrote:If this holds up I will be amazed and it just show the bias of the Australian citing commission. There is no evidence and the 'victim' doesn't even know if it it happened or not.

The citing commissioner is South African, so it is unfair to say it is a biased Australian citing commission.

JmD wrote:If this holds up I will be amazed and it just show the bias of the Australian citing commission. There is no evidence and the 'victim' doesn't even know if it it happened or not.

Even if it did happen, would the fact that he was getting a forearm driven into his face not excuse him? Remember when Hartley had Pedrie Wannenburg in a headlock and Wannenburg bit him, but nobody cared because Hartley deserved it and Wannenburg had no option?

Is it an Australian citing comission or an IRB panel. If it is an Australian panel that would be ridiculous. Might as well have a Aussie ref for the test matches too if thats the case.

Also has Healy made any comment on the issue yet? Im guessing he hasnt.

The citing commissioner is Freek Burger a South African ex referee.

Biltong wrote:The citing commissioner is Freek Burger a South African ex referee.

Thanks Billtong. Great name, sounds like something you eat at five in the morning after a load of drinks.

Biltong wrote:The citing commissioner is Freek Burger a South African ex referee.

I don't know much about this freakburger guy. But I do know that he joins the long list of South Africans with really cool names.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Biltong wrote:The citing commissioner is Freek Burger a South African ex referee.

I don't know much about this freakburger guy. But I do know that he joins the long list of South Africans with really cool names.

Agree with you there.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Biltong wrote:The citing commissioner is Freek Burger a South African ex referee.

I don't know much about this freakburger guy. But I do know that he joins the long list of South Africans with really cool names.

don't let him any where near Matt Stevens, as hee will just be a snack.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Biltong wrote:The citing commissioner is Freek Burger a South African ex referee.

I don't know much about this freakburger guy. But I do know that he joins the long list of South Africans with really cool names.

Freek Burger was a referee in the amateur era, by memory he retired from refereeing in the early nineties. He was SA referee manager at one stage as well.

He was a highly respected referee during his time.

The comedy value of a guy named Burger oversseing a citing for biting cannot be lost on anyone.

LondonTiger wrote:The comedy value of a guy named Burger oversseing a citing for biting cannot be lost on anyone.

As long as they don't swallow I suppose it is all OK.

You usually see Healy re-fitting yet another contact lens (his supplier makes a fortune!)

But I didn't see him re-fitting his dentures so I'm dubious about the accusation.

More seriously, Sheehan pointed to his arm when he confronted Healy. Healy responded by mimicing where Sheehan had stuck his arm, right up against Healy's mouth. So it seems the chat was "You bit me you Paddy Basteraud!" "You force fed me your arm, ya f**kin' runt!"

BTW, I was listening to Fox commentary and the two guys had a great laugh at the time as one of them said Sheehan wasn't exactly an angel himself in the hidden moments of crime.

LondonTiger wrote:The comedy value of a guy named Burger oversseing a citing for biting cannot be lost on anyone.

It would be funnier if the guy Healy "bit" was called Freak Burger. That would be a genuine excuse for biting if you ask me.

SecretFly wrote: "You force fed me your arm, ya f**kin' runt!"

Anyone for some Foie Gras.

The moral of the story being: don't put your arm in the lion's mouth

rapidsnowman wrote:The moral of the story being: don't put your arm in the lion's mouth

..or play with his ball.

If, and I said IF, Healey gets a ban, will his injury period count?

If he is out for 4 mantchs for injury and he is banned for 4 matches, does this mean in effect it is a "pointless" punishment?

Or does the ban only come into effect for matches he would have been able to play?

tigertattie wrote:If, and I said IF, Healey gets a ban, will his injury period count?

If he is out for 4 mantchs for injury and he is banned for 4 matches, does this mean in effect it is a "pointless" punishment?

Or does the ban only come into effect for matches he would have been able to play?

As far I know the sentence and injury can run simultaneously.

That is to say if there is a ban.

I didn't see anything that would suggest a malicious bite.

Maybe it was more a lick, than a bite.

GunsGerms wrote:
Its a shame that this has happened as it will just add fuel to the fire of Healy's critics. Ill reserve judgement until after the hearing but there is TV footage whereas in the Hartley case there was not so I expect a more definitive judgement. I also refuse to compare this to the Hartley Ferris incident as no one actually knows what really happened there bar Ferris and Hartley.

You right of course that nobody knows what happened other than Hartley and Ferris. Strange then that Hartley should get a ban.

The video in this incident is inconclusive so Healey should not be banned.

Normally bans are (laughably) measured in weeks not matches.

I think that Hartley got eight weeks so I presume that Healy could expect a ban (if convicted) extending into late September/early October.

greytiger wrote:

Lions bite fury: Irish prop Healy faces being sent home in disgrace

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2336236/British-Irish-Lions-2013-Cian-Healy-cited-alleged-bite-Alex-Corbisiero-called-up.html#ixzz2VPmR9eQj

In an incident reminiscent of Hartley's alleged attack on Ferris, presumably the same storm of opprobrium will descend on Healy.

How was that alleged?

He was proven guilty and banned for it, Ferris had Hartleys teeth marks in his finger and showed the ref. this incident went to the TMO who said evidence was unclear.

It is alleged that Ferris was fish-hooking maes.

No video is available of the incident - only hearsay. Hartley was convicted on hearsay and previous conduct.

So it should be with Healy.

Coz if'n our lad got wot he got, coz he didn't mean it and was aggravated; then their lad should get it now, coz he probably didn't mean it neither but fair is fair if it wasn't fair on our lad.....

IRB rule 24. B Subsection: 12.49.2. Heading: Getting One's Own Back.

SecretFly wrote:Coz if'n our lad got wot he got, coz he didn't mean it and was aggravated; then their lad should get it now, coz he probably didn't mean it neither but fair is fair if it wasn't fair on our lad.....

IRB rule 24. B Subsection: 12.49.2. Heading: Getting One's Own Back.

Meaning?

Everyone seems to agree that citing committees (and refs) should be balanced and consistent.

Oh don't mind me, grey... I'm just having a little fun. It's always a funny topic - these citings involving hidden incidents that us 606ers still can talk oceans about down to the finest detail. I just can't help it, I always find them funny and the curious logic that circulates around them.

BTW... if Healy did bite, he should return home in chains and shame.

This isn't me doing a "well our lad is innocent coz the hairs on the other guys arm didn't look like they had spit on them from the camera angle I saw"

greytiger wrote:It is alleged that Ferris was fish-hooking maes.

No video is available of the incident - only hearsay. Hartley was convicted on hearsay and previous conduct.

So it should be with Healy.

Inconveniently for you though Greytiger there is video footage of Healy's alleged bite where you can actually see the force guy move his forearm and plant it on Healy's face.

You are about as likely as finding real footage of a Yeti as you are of finding footage of Ferris fish hooking hungry Hartley.

My tuppence worth -

I hope he didn't do it.
I suspect he didn't do it.
If he did do it, then he deserves a big ban.

Up until Hartleys ban for biting Ferris how much time had he spent suspended?

As far as I can remember Healy has only been banned once. So you can hardly take the same thing into account when judging on conjecture.

If he did bite him it will be fairly obvious as no doubt there will be bite marks and Healy has fairly unmistakable hippo like ganshers.

I wear with pride a nice bite scar between my index finger and thumb where I got a bite in a ruck around 15 years ago. You can clearly see the teeth marks.

The Force guy can tell his grandchildren he was bitten by a Lion. Some story to tell.

GunsGerms wrote:If he did bite him it will be fairly obvious as no doubt there will be bite marks and Healy has fairly unmistakable hippo like ganshers.

I wear with pride a nice bite scar between my index finger and thumb where I got a bite in a ruck around 15 years ago. You can clearly see the teeth marks.

The Force guy can tell his grandchildren he was bitten by a Lion. Some story to tell.

Bitten by a Lion with a gumshield in.

Mickado wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:If he did bite him it will be fairly obvious as no doubt there will be bite marks and Healy has fairly unmistakable hippo like ganshers.

I wear with pride a nice bite scar between my index finger and thumb where I got a bite in a ruck around 15 years ago. You can clearly see the teeth marks.

The Force guy can tell his grandchildren he was bitten by a Lion. Some story to tell.

Bitten by a Lion with a gumshield in.

Ha, true.

Theres a history of violence on the Lions Tours isn't there. Duncan McCrae and his assault on O'Gara, the whole 99 Call legacy, O'Driscoll being taken out on the 2005 tour, the eye gouging by Schalk Burger in 2009 etc.

red_stag wrote:Theres a history of violence on the Lions Tours isn't there. Duncan McCrae and his assault on O'Gara, the whole 99 Call legacy, O'Driscoll being taken out on the 2005 tour, the eye gouging by Schalk Burger in 2009 etc.

The Brits left hook.

Darcy did a fairly dangerous tackle on Tipoki in '05 too. Gotta love a bit of rough stuff.

Loved the '09 series because of how physical it was.

red_stag wrote:Theres a history of violence on the Lions Tours isn't there. Duncan McCrae and his assault on O'Gara, the whole 99 Call legacy, O'Driscoll being taken out on the 2005 tour, the eye gouging by Schalk Burger in 2009 etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnPVfbG3rVM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=Frqdj2x8--A&NR=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTVhckB3juk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=6AjnmPNOn6g&NR=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=s9Z2m6DgwQ4&NR=1

Talking of Youtube, there's a suspicion of a nibble
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9tlxkhl6u4