Brumbies vs Lions Tuesday

by maestegmafia Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:39 am

[quote="George Carlin"]Brumbies team is up, Maes:

15-Jesse Mogg,
14-Henry Speight,
13-Tevita Kuridrani,
12-Andrew Smith,
11-Clyde Rathbone,
10-Matt Toomua,
9-Ian Prior,

8-Peter Kimlin (captain),
7-Colby Faingaa,
6-Scott Fardy,
5-Sam Carter,
4-Leon Power,
3-Scott Sio,
2-Siliva Siliva,
1-Ruan Smith.

Replacements: 16-Josh Mann-Rea, 17-Jean-Pierre Smith, 18-Chris Cocca, 19-Etienne Oosthuizen, 20-Jordan Smiler, 21-Mark Swanepoel, 22-Robbie Coleman, 23-Zack Holmes.

Lions team: Rob Kearney, Christian Wade, Brad Barritt, Billy Twelvetrees, Shane Williams, Stuart Hogg, Ben Youngs; Ryan Grant, Rory Best (capt), Matt Stevens, Ian Evans, Richie Gray, Sean O'Brien, Justin Tipuric, Toby Faletau

Replacements: Richard Hibbard, Alex Corbisiero, Dan Cole, Geoff Parling, Dan Lydiate, Conor Murray, Owen Farrell, Simon Zebo

This team points to a number of players who must be fringe selections or definitely not going to make it.

by ultra Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:45 am

Richie Gray/Geoff Parling are the surprise.......Can we assume those starting are almost certainly not involved and the bench probably involved in some way? POC and AWJ starting locks?

by **RDW** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:48 am

I can easily see this being the first defeat - the pack is solid enough but that backline is very worrying - Hogg's second ever game at 10, inexperienced 36 at 12 just off the plane, Brad feckin Barrit just off the plane from being on holiday for weeks, inexperienced Wade, just back from injury Kearney, and a 36 year old retired from International rugby for 2 years Shane Williams!!!!

Almost glad I'm at work on Tuesday...

by ultra Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:53 am

It seems to show WG hasn't made his mind up yet due to form and or injuries......I can understand it to a degree, play the guys who've just come over and save your big guns till you've made your mind up. Got to say I'm disappointed in the pack - purely because there are players there that we now know won't be involved and some of them should be!

by **George Carlin** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:05 am

Brumbies team is up, Maes:

15-Jesse Mogg,
14-Henry Speight,
13-Tevita Kuridrani,
12-Andrew Smith,
11-Clyde Rathbone,
10-Matt Toomua,
9-Ian Prior,

8-Peter Kimlin (captain),
7-Colby Faingaa,
6-Scott Fardy,
5-Sam Carter,
4-Leon Power,
3-Scott Sio,
2-Siliva Siliva,
1-Ruan Smith.

Replacements: 16-Josh Mann-Rea, 17-Jean-Pierre Smith, 18-Chris Cocca, 19-Etienne Oosthuizen, 20-Jordan Smiler, 21-Mark Swanepoel, 22-Robbie Coleman, 23-Zack Holmes.

They've released Kimlin and Sio from the Wallabies squad for this match in case they get accused of hiding again.

We know what to expect here - the forwards are very much second choice and inexperienced and will struggle to get ball. But....if they do, that Brumbies backline will cause us all kinds of problems. Mogg has been the form 15 of the Super season and really should have been in the Wallaby squad, Rathbone is already a full cap Wallaby and Henry Speight is the Super 15's leading scorer this season and the winger I most feared us coming up against (thankfully, he's not AQ until 2014). Their fly half Matt Toomua is one of the best players of recent times that isn't yet a Wallaby - he's truly a great playmaker.

Unless our forwards boss this game, we could well lose it. And I'm not being reactionary. Massive ask for Stuart Hogg. Wonder if he knew what he was signing up for at the start of this tour. Very, very worried that the Squashed Goblin will be run over by Speight every single time - Speight is the only winger I've seen this season that swatted away Julian Savea like he wasn't there.

by bedfordwelsh Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:12 am

I guess this is the weakest side they have fielded so far due to the in-experience of some and the late arrival etc but some of these players (Wade & Twelvetrees) were the players people wanted in the squad originally.

Parling and Murray have been given bit of hard deal I feel by not starting again, would have liked to see Parling and Evans given a go together.

I very much doubt (Hogg aside) if any of those backs will feature in the 1st test match squad but the backrow definitely have it all to play for still.

by Duty281 Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:26 am

What a strange back-line that is! I suppose we can guess that all those starting will not start the first Test, which probably means Phillips will be starting scrum-half. Will be a very tight game. Excited to see Wade start though.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:29 am

I'd be disappointed if this means youngs, tipuric and o'brien are out of the test team

by bedfordwelsh Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:32 am

pete,

I expect Youngs to be on bench which is why am surprised to not see Murray start, I doubt both SOB and Tipuric will be involved in the test now.

I reckon it will be one or the other on the bench, likely (for me) SOB as he covers 6,7 and 8

by **George Carlin** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:33 am

I think that there are quite a few test 23 players in that 23 - Youngs, Gray, Corbs and at least one of Tips/SOB being the obvious ones. Really hope Youngs doesn't pick up an injury.

by bedfordwelsh Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:40 am

George,

I think the following will be involved

Youngs
Hogg (possibly)
Gray
SOB or Tipuric
Hibbard
Corbisiero
Cole
Farrell
Zebo

Oh and of course Williams Run

by **George Carlin** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:41 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:George,

I think the following will be involved

Youngs
Hogg (possibly)
Gray
SOB or Tipuric
Hibbard
Corbisiero
Cole
Farrell
Zebo

Oh and of course Williams

Oh no you didn't. censored

by bedfordwelsh Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:42 am

Sorry couldn't resist Whistle

by maestegmafia Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:42 am

I am surprised Grant is down the pecking order at loosehead. Alex Corbisiero is a very handy loosehead that I rate very highly when fit and in good form. But he hasn't been very good in his two games so far.

I was hoping to see Grant get a run on Saturday. He has had a superb season at club and international level.

by chargedowntotheface Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:45 am

why did I choose this game to go to?!
Looking forward to seeing Youngs, Twelvetrees, Wade, O'Brien and Tipuric,
but seriously, Matt Stevens, Brad Barritt and Shane Williams?
Henry Speight has run over much bigger and better defenders than Shane Williams all year in the S15, going to be a nightmare.....

I can only hope that B Youngs is starting this game to keep him sharp and that he'll get 30 mins off the bench on sat. He's been better (just) than Phillips and way ahead of Murray. I expect Youngs to start the 3rd test, if not the 2nd.

by **George Carlin** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:49 am

Not that I want to worry people or anything, but:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-NowBUNmbQ

by maestegmafia Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:55 am

George Carlin wrote:Brumbies team is up, Maes:

15-Jesse Mogg,
14-Henry Speight,
13-Tevita Kuridrani,
12-Andrew Smith,
11-Clyde Rathbone,
10-Matt Toomua,
9-Ian Prior,

8-Peter Kimlin (captain),
7-Colby Faingaa,
6-Scott Fardy,
5-Sam Carter,
4-Leon Power,
3-Scott Sio,
2-Siliva Siliva,
1-Ruan Smith.

Replacements: 16-Josh Mann-Rea, 17-Jean-Pierre Smith, 18-Chris Cocca, 19-Etienne Oosthuizen, 20-Jordan Smiler, 21-Mark Swanepoel, 22-Robbie Coleman, 23-Zack Holmes.

They've released Kimlin and Sio from the Wallabies squad for this match in case they get accused of hiding again.

We know what to expect here - the forwards are very much second choice and inexperienced and will struggle to get ball. But....if they do, that Brumbies backline will cause us all kinds of problems. Mogg has been the form 15 of the Super season and really should have been in the Wallaby squad, Rathbone is already a full cap Wallaby and Henry Speight is the Super 15's leading scorer this season and the winger I most feared us coming up against (thankfully, he's not AQ until 2014). Their fly half Matt Toomua is one of the best players of recent times that isn't yet a Wallaby - he's truly a great playmaker.

Unless our forwards boss this game, we could well lose it. And I'm not being reactionary. Massive ask for Stuart Hogg. Wonder if he knew what he was signing up for at the start of this tour. Very, very worried that the Squashed Goblin will be run over by Speight every single time - Speight is the only winger I've seen this season that swatted away Julian Savea like he wasn't there.

Cheers GC

by broadlandboy Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:03 am

Is this a chance to see how YBY/Faletau play together? if it goes well could they start on Saturday?

by ChequeredJersey Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:08 pm

Barritt at 13? Interesting. I assume Tuilagi and JD and BOD are in the match squad then?

by ChequeredJersey Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:09 pm

Also looks like Lydiate-Warbs-Heaslip with Croft on the bench backrow. Not sure I approve

by ChequeredJersey Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:10 pm

broadlandboy wrote:Is this a chance to see how YBY/Faletau play together? if it goes well could they start on Saturday?

No one starting this match will start on Saturday, barring a massive performance or yet another injury

by bedfordwelsh Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:10 pm

Phillips will start on Saturday of that I am sure, I cant see JD Tuilagi and BOD all in match day squad.

Unless they utilise Manu as wing cover as well, Maes will be happy

by ChequeredJersey Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:13 pm

I can think of no other sane reason to play Barritt at 13, especially with Williams and Wade outside him

by nathan Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:16 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:I can think of no other sane reason to play Barritt at 13, especially with Williams and Wade outside him

i do wonder if they'll see the ball in 80 minutes.

by broadlandboy Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:21 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
broadlandboy wrote:Is this a chance to see how YBY/Faletau play together? if it goes well could they start on Saturday?

No one starting this match will start on Saturday, barring a massive performance or yet another injury

Depends how long they play for. If it was for a half I can see no reason for not starting on Saturday, not much more than a live training session, if they play 3/4 to a whole game then yes I can not see them starting Saturday.

by wales606 Sun 16 Jun 2013, 2:11 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Barritt at 13? Interesting. I assume Tuilagi and JD and BOD are in the match squad then?

Tuilagi is still carrying an injury

BOD is being protected because his limbs don't work anymore

JD is being rested, he has played more minutes than any of the other centres on tour, plus he played Saturday

by robbo277 Sun 16 Jun 2013, 3:44 pm

ultraRichie Gray/Geoff Parling are the surprise.......Can we assume those starting are almost certainly not involved and the bench probably involved in some way? POC and AWJ starting locks?

I'd guess that in general starters are out and the bench will bench again? Some exceptions and I could be wrong though.

Halfpenny, Maitland, 2 of Roberts/O'Driscoll/Tuilagi/Davies depending on fitness, Cuthbert, Sexton, Phillips;
Mako, T Youngs, A Jones, O'Connell, AW Jones, Croft, Warburton, Heaslip (C)
Hibbard, Corbisiero, Cole, Parling, Lydiate, Murray, Farrell, 3rd centre?

I guess Gray, Tipuric, O'Brien, Youngs and Hogg could force their way onto the bench with good showings, and Hogg may make the bench anyway if 2 of the centres don't make it.

I've omitted Bowe and North as I don't think they'll make it fitness wise. North would be a shoo-in for me, however I'd like to see Bowe against the Rebels before I could bring him in for the second test.

I think it will be hard for one of the recent call-ups (Twelvetrees, Barritt, Wade) to force their way into the test team on the back of their own performances only, they'll only get a shot if there is further injury or someone has a shocker.

Definitely the weakest team the Lions have put out, but with so much to play for and prove - even if first test selection is beyond some it's a 3 match series - the Lions should be so fired up for this one and I'm still expecting a win.

by ChequeredJersey Sun 16 Jun 2013, 4:42 pm

I would however like to say that Warburton really impressed me last match and I may have been wrong in my misgivings over him. I apologise if this is the case

by niwatts Sun 16 Jun 2013, 7:13 pm

nathan wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:I can think of no other sane reason to play Barritt at 13, especially with Williams and Wade outside him

i do wonder if they'll see the ball in 80 minutes.

Twelvetrees & Barritt lined up with Barritt at 13 in the 38-18 victory over Scotland in the 6N. In that game Twelvetrees passed/offloaded the ball 7 times, Barritt passed/offloaded the ball 18 times, and our back three saw more ball than they have in years.

by ChequeredJersey Sun 16 Jun 2013, 7:56 pm

niwatts wrote:
nathan wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:I can think of no other sane reason to play Barritt at 13, especially with Williams and Wade outside him

i do wonder if they'll see the ball in 80 minutes.

Twelvetrees & Barritt lined up with Barritt at 13 in the 38-18 victory over Scotland in the 6N. In that game Twelvetrees passed/offloaded the ball 7 times, Barritt passed/offloaded the ball 18 times, and our back three saw more ball than they have in years.

To be fair I looked at the stats and Barritt passes a lot more than Manu at 13!

by The Saint Sun 16 Jun 2013, 8:19 pm

Is Jake White trying to turn the Brumbies into a development team for SA or something?

by ChequeredJersey Sun 16 Jun 2013, 8:23 pm

The Saint wrote:Is Jake White trying to turn the Brumbies into a development team for SA or something?

Nah, they've lost a lot of players to the Wallabies

by jelly Sun 16 Jun 2013, 8:42 pm

Surprised that Youngs is starting and Murray on the bench. Wonder how long he will get before coming off; anything much over 50 minutes and I can't seem him being involved on Saturday and I had thought it looked like Murray was well behind the other two.

by robbo277 Sun 16 Jun 2013, 8:46 pm

jelly

Agree with that, Murray looked good against the Barbarians coming on, but against the Force he seemed to try and do too much himself. Youngs has looked sharp, but only has one start on tour. Maybe Gatland wants to give him some more game time and one last chance to stake a claim for a starting place.

by wales606 Sun 16 Jun 2013, 8:51 pm

robbo277 wrote:jelly

Agree with that, Murray looked good against the Barbarians coming on, but against the Force he seemed to try and do too much himself. Youngs has looked sharp, but only has one start on tour. Maybe Gatland wants to give him some more game time and one last chance to stake a claim for a starting place.

I could be the case that Gatland wants Youngs, Gray and SOB/Tipuric to get a bit more gametime before Saturday...I hope so.

by Taffineastbourne Sun 16 Jun 2013, 8:52 pm

I happen to think that Gatland's selection of Shane is a master stroke.The Aussies have been extracting the urine with their selections and he is giving some back.Priceless!

by jelly Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:09 pm

Well Youngs, and one or two others, definitely need a bit more game time so maybe it is just to try and make sure he is as match sharp as possible.

by maestegmafia Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:29 pm

Gats said that Saturdays test side will not be drafted until after this game.

by glamorganalun Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:51 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Gats said that Saturdays test side will not be drafted until after this game.

You believe that statement, the forwards and half backs have just played together and Gatland is protecting the backs by using no hopers in his mind. The subs for Tuesday are the test subs. My biggest fear is he will pick Maitland if North is injured, give me Zebo every time after the last game.

by 509boy Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:42 pm

I'm surprised to hear Zebos name so often on here, he was totally ridiculed in the pub outside the stadium during the game, then totally discounted as a threat to the Australian defence. One Irish supporter said he missed 2 try scoring opportunitys, missed a few tackles and lost the ball in contact more often than not.
I thought he was poor too, and expected him to feature in this game off the bench maybe.

by jelly Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:50 pm

I thought he was very involved early on, though missed a chance that he should have either scored himself of passed inside to make sure of a try in the first couple of minutes. After that I thought he tried to keep himself involved but had less impact. Apart from North I think all the wings have looked a bit rusty; Cuthbert has scored some tries but I also think he has missed some good chances.

Apparently North is rated at less than 50-50 for Saturday and Bowe has a chance (on BBC website now)

by bedfordwelsh Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:24 am

Zebo started the game very well but understandably given the travelling etc dropped off a bit in the 2nd half.

If, as suggested Bowe and North seem very unlikely to figure then I would go for Cuthbert and Zebo on the wings, Maitland hasn't impressed me at all this tour.

The other option I guess is Hogg at XV with Halfpenny and Cuthbert on the wings.

by thomh Mon 17 Jun 2013, 8:51 am

maestegmafia wrote:I am surprised Grant is down the pecking order at loosehead. Alex Corbisiero is a very handy loosehead that I rate very highly when fit and in good form. But he hasn't been very good in his two games so far.

I was hoping to see Grant get a run on Saturday. He has had a superb season at club and international level.

I can't speak for Grant's club form, but the scrum got noticeably weaker when he replaced Corbisiero last Tuesday. Admittedly there was a wholesale front row change at the time, so it could have been partly down to Best and Stevens, but I thought Corbisiero had a very good game.

by **George Carlin** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:15 am

thomh wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:I am surprised Grant is down the pecking order at loosehead. Alex Corbisiero is a very handy loosehead that I rate very highly when fit and in good form. But he hasn't been very good in his two games so far.

I was hoping to see Grant get a run on Saturday. He has had a superb season at club and international level.

I can't speak for Grant's club form, but the scrum got noticeably weaker when he replaced Corbisiero last Tuesday. Admittedly there was a wholesale front row change at the time, so it could have been partly down to Best and Stevens, but I thought Corbisiero had a very good game.

I noticed that too Thom but as you say the front row and half the boiler house also changed so it's very difficult to draw anything from that because you're not comparing like with like. If, judging by the posts above, Zebo is granted concessions from criticism because of long haul flying then I'm assuming that Grant is entitled to the same.

Let's see how we go against what should be a respectably tidy Brumbies scrum.

by fa0019 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:40 am

This is probably going to be the toughest match to win. The Lions team is probably the weakest its been and they are playing the best AUS domestic team with 11 first 23 players in their starting line up.... impressive even though they are losing players to injury and the AUS squad.

The players deep down know that its highly unlikely any of them will be involved in the starting line up too on Saturday. Some may use that as inspiration to get in the 23... some like O'Brien, Faletau may take it badly given their positional claims have been very high.

Whatever anyone says about not choosing their side until after this match we all know thats bull... you won't choose to play a guy for 80 mins 5 days before the biggest test match in your life.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:49 am

I worry if this is a reflection on who Gatland will pick for Saturday.

I reckon AWJ had a stormer on Saturday but IMO has now made the decision between him and Gray for the starting shirt a real head ache. Gray has the chance on Tuesday to make the test shirt his own.

The Lions will be quite solid up front, but I worry for the backs. Hogg will be unlikely to get such an easy game as he did last Tuesday and he won't have the experience of Roberts outside him since Twelvetrees is a bit of a newcomer to test rugby too.

Youngs will have to help Hogg out a bit in running the game and Barrit will have to really organise the defence.

The less said about Shane Williams the better.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 11:02 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:The less said about Shane Williams the better.

The alternative was Andy Farrell to play 10 and Hogg on the wing.

by **George Carlin** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 11:29 am

LondonTiger wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:The less said about Shane Williams the better.

The alternative was Andy Farrell to play 10 and Hogg on the wing.

I would so much rather have given Will Greenwood a pair of boots and pointed him towards the pitch.

by maestegmafia Mon 17 Jun 2013, 3:36 pm

glamorganalun wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Gats said that Saturdays test side will not be drafted until after this game.

You believe that statement, the forwards and half backs have just played together and Gatland is protecting the backs by using no hopers in his mind. The subs for Tuesday are the test subs. My biggest fear is he will pick Maitland if North is injured, give me Zebo every time after the last game.

North is apparently looking a more realistic entity. Recovery going well. Same for Tuilagi.

Roberts and Bowe are not going to make it in time.

by fa0019 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 4:17 pm

If North is touch and go I'd rather leave him until the 2nd test. No point him going early and making injury even worse.

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