Gwent Dragons 2013/14 thread

by Guest Wed 19 Jun - 4:24

First topic message reminder :

A place for general Dragons chat, etc.

After renewing my season ticket recently, and with Lyn Jones being unveiled as the new DoR (yeah I know, some people thinks he's gash, but whatever), plus the training facilities at Ystrad Mynach, I feel a bit of a buzz and optimism around the Dragons. Saying that I do generally get a feeling of optimism pre season every year which usually goes by about mid October!

Just watched the Wales U20's get to the final of the Jnr World Championships and a couple of lads looked really good - Jack Dixon a rock in midfield, Hallam Amos an elusive runner at FB/wing and Ieuan Jones looking like a very good prospect at 8. Will be good to see how the go next season for the Dragons. I think their regional appearances have certainly helped them in this Jnr cup in terms of experience. Looking forward to seeing them play with the likes of Faletau, Coombes, Talei, T Rhys Thomas, etc. next season.

Anyone want to make a stab at our strongest matchday 15/23 for next season? Will have a stab myself after a bit of thought.

by Cardiff Dave Fri 24 Jan - 23:40

LordDowlais wrote:The thing is, if the regions who have these players in their academies are not willing enough to offer a kid a contract, why should other regions not be allowed to take a punt on these boys ?

Aye and the name, Leigh Halfpenny rings a bell.

by Cardiff Dave Fri 24 Jan - 23:45

The Saint wrote:SS, I think what we can all agree on is that the Ospreys are the worst for nicking players from other regional academies!

aka, the other cheque book blinking charlies.

by LordDowlais Fri 24 Jan - 23:50

Yes, but if the regions who have these players at their academies do not have either the balls or the forsight to offer a young kid a contract, but another will, then I say it is fair game.

by Cardiff Dave Fri 24 Jan - 23:59

LordDowlais wrote:Yes, but if the regions who have these players at their academies do not have either the balls or the forsight to offer a young kid a contract, but another will, then I say it is fair game.

Agreed.

by ScarletSpiderman Sat 25 Jan - 0:37

LordDowlais wrote:Yes, but if the regions who have these players at their academies do not have either the balls or the forsight to offer a young kid a contract, but another will, then I say it is fair game.

It is balance though, because wasn't Parry offered a contract by the Dragons? So that is just a case of flashing more cash to swipe him, and as such driving up the cost of welsh players.

by Luckless Pedestrian Sat 25 Jan - 17:02

Do any of us know for certain that Sam Parry was offered more money by the Ospreys? Even if he was offered more, it might not have been the money that swung it for him, but a) the chance to be closer to his roots out West, and b) the opportunity to win silverware, which he's more likely to do at the Liberty. In any case, Elliot Dee's an under-20s international and I think I heard he'd captained them before, so I'm pretty comfortable that Lyn knows what he's doing.

by Guest Sat 25 Jan - 20:15

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Do any of us know for certain that Sam Parry was offered more money by the Ospreys? Even if he was offered more, it might not have been the money that swung it for him, but a) the chance to be closer to his roots out West, and b) the opportunity to win silverware, which he's more likely to do at the Liberty. In any case, Elliot Dee's an under-20s international and I think I heard he'd captained them before, so I'm pretty comfortable that Lyn knows what he's doing.

Or like I said on dragged up, the chance to play in a scrum that remains in neutral gear at worst, or one that is usually stuck in reverse gear. I'm more than happy with TRT and Dee and we still have Gerwyn Price is right 180 playing within the region.

by dragon4life Sat 25 Jan - 21:23

Have any of you guys seem joe mills play? I think hes the lock who moved to tighthead

by Guest Sat 25 Jan - 21:55

dragon4life wrote:Have any of you guys seem joe mills play? I think hes the lock who moved to tighthead

No, I don't think there's any Bedwas guys on here or dragged up either. It's a huge ask to step up like that. I'm sure he is a good handler/carrier, but I fail to see how he can have adapted to scrummaging as a prop. Still, he can't do any worse than some of our other tight heads over the years.

by dragon4life Sat 25 Jan - 22:33

Hopefully he can scrummage but doubt it as he moved from lock

by Guest Sat 25 Jan - 22:59

I know absolutely nothing about him, but as a guess if he was playing lock at this level then he's got to be 6'5" at least. Biomechanically tall props are at a big disadvantage as they struggle to get a straight back (from what I've been told). They're sort of bent over with their butts in the air and backs aiming downwards, which means they're more likely to get folded up in the scrum. Makes sense logically.

But this is just guess work. He may be awesome for all I know. But logically it doesn't seem possible for locks to become props at pro level (maybe at the lower levels where they may be up against relatively weak scrummagers).

by Luckless Pedestrian Sat 25 Jan - 23:02

He'll be fine if he comes on today. It's not as if English sides take scrummaging seriously. Whistle

by Breadvan Sun 26 Jan - 2:15

Cardiff Dave wrote:
The Saint wrote:SS, I think what we can all agree on is that the Ospreys are the worst for nicking players from other regional academies!

aka, the other cheque book blinking charlies.

More like, fancy playing for us instead?

Er...yeh ok.

by glamorganalun Sun 26 Jan - 3:10

The pitch is a disgrace how can County play on that surface

by Jhamer25 Sun 26 Jan - 3:58

Watched the game and bluddy hell. It's great signings the likes of Brew and Byrne but today was the best example to show teams that your backs can't do anything in attack without a platform.

Nathan Buck and Phil Price are regarded as first/second choice really, yet they got dismantled by 3/4 choice props who are only just coming through from U20's level. It's pathetic and just not good enough.

The Dragons have 6 main props all of whom can;t scrummage to save their life's. They need to make at least 3 prop signings ready for next season if they want to unleash the great backs they have signed

You have a great back row and good locks coming through but not there yet. But they only two players int he forward who might as well have been on the pitch was Netani Talei and Cory Hill. Netani Talei should have been MOM he was just outstanding

The potential the Dragons are showing is amazing but they need set piece otherwise nothing will change.

And why the hell did he play that Luc Jones I mean yes he is his son but ffs he was shocking. His forwards were getting destroyed but he didn't help them much at all. Why Richie Rees keeps begin chosen on the bench is behind me. He changed the Dragons whole attacking game in the open channells when he came on.

by Guest Sun 26 Jan - 6:06

JHamer, and yet I bet you if the Dragons dare sign a non welsh prop we'll be blasted for ruining welsh rugby. The fact of the matter is that, within out current budget, we're playing young welsh props. Buck, Way (welsh qualified), Price, Gustafson (although now a hooker), Parry, T Rhys Thomas, Coundley, Owen Evans, Dee. All Welsh front rowers but no good. We ARE giving youth a chance, promoting from within, taking the dregs sat on benches in other regions and giving them a shot. I.e. Doing the regional way. And where does it get us? The worst scrum in Europe. Chapparo is the only foreign prop but I do appreciate that he's not much better. But he did well elsewhere so you have to consider that it's perhaps the whole unit.

Time to look elsewhere and face the wrath of the outraged welsh rugby public. F*ck it.

by Jhamer25 Sun 26 Jan - 6:21

Griff wrote:JHamer, and yet I bet you if the Dragons dare sign a non welsh prop we'll be blasted for ruining welsh rugby. The fact of the matter is that, within out current budget, we're playing young welsh props. Buck, Way (welsh qualified), Price, Gustafson (although now a hooker), Parry, T Rhys Thomas, Coundley, Owen Evans, Dee. All Welsh front rowers but no good. We ARE giving youth a chance, promoting from within, taking the dregs sat on benches in other regions and giving them a shot. I.e. Doing the regional way. And where does it get us? The worst scrum in Europe. Chapparo is the only foreign prop but I do appreciate that he's not much better. But he did well elsewhere so you have to consider that it's perhaps the whole unit.

Time to look elsewhere and face the wrath of the outraged welsh rugby public. F*ck it.

Definitely, F**k any other teams' fans or the union who would put you down for signing non welsh props. Their not the ones who have to watch their team (which has so much potential) be battered about purely because the front 5 can't match up to other teams.

The fact is not every young talent coming through can make it at the top level, especially props. I mean we (Scarlet's) have been so lucky lately to have had the likes of Samson Lee and Rob Evans come through. We've been waiting 10 years for young props like them, they don;t come though by the dozens. If they didn't come through we would have had to sign foreign players and I wouldn't have given a sh!t if we came under controversy for blocking off welsh grown talent and neither should the Dragons fans.

It's not a lie secret that the Dragons have a weak front 5 and they should strengthen by any means which means signing a player who can cut it, not only if their welsh.

The Dragons have given the likes of Buck, Way, Phil and Owen a chance to shine now and they haven't cut it. There are welsh Qualified players out there but they might be hard to get so if not go for the foreigners. G to South Africa like we did and sign a big brute of a lock and a descent tighthead, we did with Earle's and he is such a big part f our team now and Adriannse adds depth to out tight head position.

Just put your two fingers up to them and laugh at them when your winning more games through a powerful front row full of foreigners Wink

by dragon4life Sun 26 Jan - 8:05

We desperatley need props a tighthead and a loosehead and also a massive second row

by bedfordwelsh Sun 26 Jan - 16:15

The problen is we have signed foreign props in the past and they have been next to useless as well.

Good quality top notch props, especially tightheads dont come cheap so we will always struggle IMO.

by dragon4life Sun 26 Jan - 23:33

Everybody is saying about giving Falateau to th WRU on a central contract but if we decide to go into a A/W league we may not have him but it would free up money for props

by dragon4life Mon 27 Jan - 3:38

Just been told from my mate who knows someone inside at the dragons and we are apparently in negotiations with Rhodri Jones

by Guest Mon 27 Jan - 4:02

We were in negotiations with Rhodri Jones, but didn't think he wanted to leave the Turks. It would be pretty strange if he changed his mind, I think. Would be delighted though.

by Jhamer25 Mon 27 Jan - 4:49

dragon4life wrote:Just been told from my mate who knows someone inside at the dragons and we are apparently in negotiations with Rhodri Jones

Rhodri Jones would be the best signing the region could make. But more than one prop is needed, i thing another tight head, 2 loosheads and a lock would still need to be signed.
Rhodri is one step in the right direction, it's sad to see him leave us but it's whats best for him as a player and his devlopment. Stankovich would be another good signings as well as Rhys Gill and someone like Ben Broster
The only other signings i would be making if i was directer at the Dragons is the front 5. Release the dead weight like Buck, Way, Price, Owen Evans

by dragon4life Mon 27 Jan - 6:56

I hope it comes off and i dont know why we gave dan Way a contract extension because tbh hes useless

by bedfordwelsh Mon 27 Jan - 17:36

Risca Rev wrote:We were in negotiations with Rhodri Jones, but didn't think he wanted to leave the Turks. It would be pretty strange if he changed his mind, I think. Would be delighted though.

Rev,

He does by all accounts want to stay down west but since the AIs he is back to 3rd choice at the Scarlets so maybe he has seen the logic and if he wants further caps he has to be playing regulalry at Regional level.

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 27 Jan - 20:16

bedfordwelsh wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:We were in negotiations with Rhodri Jones, but didn't think he wanted to leave the Turks. It would be pretty strange if he changed his mind, I think. Would be delighted though.

Rev,

He does by all accounts want to stay down west but since the AIs he is back to 3rd choice at the Scarlets so maybe he has seen the logic and if he wants further caps he has to be playing regulalry at Regional level.

He has been a regular bench warmer since the AIs.

by Jhamer25 Tue 28 Jan - 4:09

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:We were in negotiations with Rhodri Jones, but didn't think he wanted to leave the Turks. It would be pretty strange if he changed his mind, I think. Would be delighted though.

Rev,

He does by all accounts want to stay down west but since the AIs he is back to 3rd choice at the Scarlets so maybe he has seen the logic and if he wants further caps he has to be playing regulalry at Regional level.

He has been a regular bench warmer since the AIs.

Really thought, i can only recall him playing for us twice since he came back on scene. Adriannse was bench for the last game as well

by Guest Tue 28 Jan - 5:52

Dan Evans off to the Ospreys then. So do you reckon we knew about it so didn't renew his contract, and approached Byrne because of it, or was it Byrne first and Evans told he was not wanted and the O's came calling???

Personally, I think Evans has been in too good form to be shown the door so I'm hoping he was approached by the O's. Or maybe he was tapped up on the quiet and told us he wasn't renewing. I don't like to think that we showed possibly our best back (in terms of form this season) the door.

Any inside info guys?

by The Saint Tue 28 Jan - 7:25

Wouldn't say no to either Rhodri Jones or Adriannse (is he out of contract?). Stankovich probably has a couple good years left, so would be good if those rumours are true.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 28 Jan - 7:32

JHamer, I just checked and stand corrected, only three games off the bench.

by Jhamer25 Tue 28 Jan - 9:11

ScarletSpiderman wrote:JHamer, I just checked and stand corrected, only three games off the bench.

Oh three is it it.
It's just not good enough for a developing tight head who is in the international set up. Not even one start, he definitely needs a club where he is first choice week in week out.
The Dragons would be the best move for him, it's sad because he came through the system but he won't forget that.

by dragon4life Tue 28 Jan - 10:31

Apparentley we've resigned Buckley from what i remember he wasn't that good but he'll be 2/3 choice but we need props. What are your views on Gustafson is he better at hooker or prop?

by Luckless Pedestrian Sat 1 Feb - 23:19

If Gus was a good enough loosehead, surely they wouldn't have tried to convert him into a hooker. And the experiment definitely hasn't worked.

29 - 0 to Newcastle. This is a serious slump now, but at least it hasn't affected our league position. But we need to wake up or we could see ourselves drop down the table when the Rabo kicks off again.

On a more positive note, some cracking performances from our under-20s yesterday. Matthews, Benjamin and Elliot Dee are seriously good prospects (granted, they'll face tougher opposition in the next few weeks).

by Jhamer25 Sun 2 Feb - 8:23

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:If Gus was a good enough loosehead, surely they wouldn't have tried to convert him into a hooker. And the experiment definitely hasn't worked.

29 - 0 to Newcastle. This is a serious slump now, but at least it hasn't affected our league position. But we need to wake up or we could see ourselves drop down the table when the Rabo kicks off again.

On a more positive note, some cracking performances from our under-20s yesterday. Matthews, Benjamin and Elliot Dee are seriously good prospects (granted, they'll face tougher opposition in the next few weeks).

I tell you what that Scott Matthews is going to be great. He reminds me of Armitage, same size and style. The amount of good prospects coming through at openside flanker is unbelievable. Got a future star there

by GavinDragon Sun 2 Feb - 20:47

still need a front row thought

by Luckless Pedestrian Sun 2 Feb - 21:56

Paul Turner was saying on Twitter yesterday how good the Italian tighthead Cittadini is and that someone should sign him up. I hope he's given Lyn Jones a call about him.

by Jhamer25 Mon 3 Feb - 4:54

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Paul Turner was saying on Twitter yesterday how good the Italian tighthead Cittadini is and that someone should sign him up. I hope he's given Lyn Jones a call about him.

I have always had very high regards of Cittadini. I have sen him our scrummage a few top class looseheads and should be the starting tighthead for Italy. If he is out of contract then the Dragons should definitely go for him. But I watched him against us this season and he struggled against Phil, I don;t htink he has taken very well to the new scrum laws like Adam.

by The Saint Mon 3 Feb - 6:29

How did they lose 29 nil to a basement team from England though? Dragons put out a decent side from what I can read.

by dragon4life Mon 3 Feb - 6:45

Newcastle put out their top team whereas we put out Burton, Roblin, Adam hughes etc...

by dragon4life Mon 3 Feb - 6:47

And we had a red card but we got smashed up front yet again

by Stone Motif Wed 5 Feb - 19:13

Stankovich confirmed, according to the Arseguff

by Jhamer25 Thu 6 Feb - 1:41

Ok, 2 more tight heads, a lock and another loosehead then your sorted Wink

by Guest Thu 6 Feb - 2:03

Some plank on the Dragons Facebook feed is moaning at the signing, asking why we aren't giving academy players the opportunity.

We are playing them. They're not up to it. It's ruining our teams chances. There is probably no worse scrum in European pro rugby at the moment. We'd be dumb not to try to remedy this by looking elsewhere.

I'm fed up of hearing that we're not giving youth a chance - we're stocked with youth. But we can't go on playing someone when they're no good just because they're a) young and b) Welsh.

by XR Thu 6 Feb - 2:33

Griff, you get those numpties everywhere.

There's the same few who complain on the cardiff blues facebook when they announce signings of this and that. I'm sure there was one whinging when we signed tuifua saying that the blues have signed 'another foreign player in the place of welsh talent'. We have 4 other centres who are all welsh but 2 are long term injuries that need cover.

There is just this myth that the regions don't bring through young welsh players. Sure, it was true a few years ago (especially the blues) but the production of young welsh players is constant throughout all regions and is just a lazy statement churned out by people who don't know what they're talking about.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 6 Feb - 4:50

Griff, how can you justify signing another old nwq when you have R Smith (made up team.com), J Hughes (anotherteamname.com), .................

Yeah you get people telling you stuff like that without considering how it effects the overall team strength.

by Jhamer25 Thu 6 Feb - 5:03

Screw um, they probably know nothing about the game or it's is member of the family saying they should be given the chance.
They can't cut it end of, looks at the likes of Nicky Thomas, Samson lee, Rob Evans and Nicky smith. All ready any of those younger boys could scrummage nay of the dragons off the park. That Northampton front row the other week dismantled the scrum and that was that tight heads debut.
So if they say it again mention that to them.

by Guest Thu 6 Feb - 7:18

I'm all for promoting welsh talent, but at the Dragons we put boys in who just aren't ready because we're forced to. No-one else left. When we do bring in someone from another region, invariably they've come because they're out of favour. Out of favour means maybe 3rd choice, which is another way of saying that they perhaps couldn't cut the mustard at that region and we're let go. 3rd choice, couldn't cut the mustard, then becomes our first choice and you of course then have a weak scrum, especially when they're surrounded by others who were 3rd choice elsewhere too!

I genuinely hope that the young front rowers with us have the potential to come good in time, and I hope that someone like Stankovich can bring them on, rather than force them out. It's a long career, potentially, for a front rower. Being second choice at 22 isn't a big deal. I hope our props recognise that and stay and try to get better, under the guidance of seasoned props. It's been bloody terrible, and a bit sadistic, watching inexperienced front rowers being sent out to the slaughter for the entire game, with even worse boys on the bench!

The other one that gets me is the line: "it's criminal that the Dragons aren't trying to get 'x' home from abroad". I'm pretty sure that we try. But decent Welsh front rowers can command a decent salary. We can't afford it so they'd be crazy to come for lower money. Sometimes it's just not possible. Or that attractive a proposition for the exiled lads!

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 6 Feb - 7:23

The best thing I've heard about Stankovich's signing was Richard Cockerill saying they wanted him to stay at Leicester.

by Knowsit17 Thu 6 Feb - 12:40

Stankovich brings bags of experience, he has featured in one of the top AP squads for a respectable amount of time. Could be a shrewd signing if he can help shore up the scrum in the short term. As I see it, the front row is really one of the areas where they'd be most justified to bring in nwqs given the lack of local options coming through. This needs to be a major area of focus over the next couple of seasons.

by bedfordwelsh Thu 6 Feb - 22:46

Griff wrote:Some plank on the Dragons Facebook feed is moaning at the signing, asking why we aren't giving academy players the opportunity.

We are playing them. They're not up to it. It's ruining our teams chances. There is probably no worse scrum in European pro rugby at the moment. We'd be dumb not to try to remedy this by looking elsewhere.

I'm fed up of hearing that we're not giving youth a chance - we're stocked with youth. But we can't go on playing someone when they're no good just because they're a) young and b) Welsh.

Agreed Griff we have tried that and it hasn't worked so we have to try another approach, that said we have signed NWQ props before and not been that good so lets hope this one better.

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