Rafa need no sympathy, come on

by invisiblecoolers Mon 24 Jun 2013, 11:18 pm

Rafa just lost a match, its not a serious crime nor a serious problem, people are pouring comments oh I hope all is well etc,..

Rafa would be the first to stay away from such sympathies, he is a champ and need no sympathies, in sports winning and losing are port of it, did any body forget whats written on the Wimbledon gate before the players enter the court? if so I will summarize it

"Accept Win and loss in the same manner and not as personal disaster", for those who wants the exact words, check youtube there is a lovely video of Rafa and Roger reading those words.

Darcis won the match and the day and his fans and the fans of underdogs earned the right of celebration just like how Rafa earned the right of celebration after the FO triumph.

Indeed a break from Tennis is a much needed thingy in his life, and he could spend some precious time with his girl friend , family and friends doing many other things he love.

I am not worried about what happened today from Rafa's perspective nor gonna offer any condolences or sympathies for this silly loss, coz I know whats Rafas capability and he has in him to comeback harder, even if he fails like haddie use to say he is still 12 time GS champion and thats one huge of a tag to carry on for the entire life.

by Guest Mon 24 Jun 2013, 11:22 pm

He dont need no sympathy its true, what sometimes happens here goes beyond both sides of the coin of course.

by **JuliusHMarx** Mon 24 Jun 2013, 11:25 pm

It doesn't hurt to offer sympathy, even if not needed.
Some people might even consider it a kind gesture Smile

by bogbrush Mon 24 Jun 2013, 11:25 pm

I think he was badly injured but I don't get personal over it either way. It's tough, big time.

As for fairness, well thats rarely been common currency amongst some, certainly not those who try to pretend Federer wasn't severely impaired for a while with GF or has suffered from debilitating back issues.

Steve Darcis is cr@p, it's impossible for a good player to lose to him while fit. Lets be honest.

by invisiblecoolers Mon 24 Jun 2013, 11:27 pm

falzy21 wrote:He dont need no sympathy its true, what sometimes happens here goes beyond both sides of the coin of course.

See a decent Rafa fan understands my view Hug

.

Falzy this was the exact mood in the Fed's camp when he bowed to Tsonga in FO quarters, this is sports and people do lose and more than them its the fans that over react.

by invisiblecoolers Mon 24 Jun 2013, 11:29 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:It doesn't hurt to offer sympathy, even if not needed.
Some people might even consider it a kind gesture

You may be right JHM, I am one of those hate symapathies when I fail an occasion, I rather stay away from everybody and focus hard and achieve it next time, sympathies are for people who cannot do it again, I certainly think Rafa don't need them for this loss, the better way is cheering up saying lets do it Vamous Rafa etc,.., I am pretty sure Rafa would take the cheer than sympathy.

by bogbrush Mon 24 Jun 2013, 11:29 pm

Trouble is that there are idiotic fans all over. I checked into that-blog-which-must-not-be-named a while back, and her antics would have any same person dancing tonight.

Then you remember she doesn't matter and decency is more mpirtant.

by invisiblecoolers Mon 24 Jun 2013, 11:31 pm

bogbrush wrote:Steve Darcis is cr@p, it's impossible for a good player to lose to him while fit. Lets be honest.

Well Rafa has lost to Garcia-Lopez, Harcio Zeballos, compared to it atleast Darcis had a game for grass, yes its a big big shock for me too as well, Rafa should win Darcis with wheel chair, this just shows his focus was not there, and what could be the reason for it? Whistle

by Guest Mon 24 Jun 2013, 11:34 pm

Well maybe weve been spolied, in the 90's edberd becker and lendl went out early fairly often maybe todays just a little stop checker

by invisiblecoolers Mon 24 Jun 2013, 11:36 pm

falzy21 wrote:Well maybe weve been spolied, in the 90's edberd becker and lendl went out early fairly often maybe todays just a little stop checker

Some times its good to lose, remember how Fed reacted with monster of his back, winning always adds a lot of pressure, see people cannot believe Rafa could have an off day due to his success, he just proved he is mortal too, like BB says "Nadal had no right to lose to Darcis" idea

by ryan86 Mon 24 Jun 2013, 11:39 pm

invisiblecoolers wrote:
falzy21 wrote:He dont need no sympathy its true, what sometimes happens here goes beyond both sides of the coin of course.

See a decent Rafa fan understands my view .

Falzy this was the exact mood in the Fed's camp when he bowed to Tsonga in FO quarters, this is sports and people do lose and more than them its the fans that over react.

I sometimes think that some fans, though not everyone, get caught in a whirlwind with others with similar traits of opposing players where they become obsessed with trying to prove that their man/team is the greatest/greater than their abilities that everything has to be reasoned/explained so that their perceived arguments carries more weight, rather than actually enjoying the sport on show.

by invisiblecoolers Mon 24 Jun 2013, 11:40 pm

ryan86 wrote:
invisiblecoolers wrote:
falzy21 wrote:He dont need no sympathy its true, what sometimes happens here goes beyond both sides of the coin of course.

See a decent Rafa fan understands my view .

Falzy this was the exact mood in the Fed's camp when he bowed to Tsonga in FO quarters, this is sports and people do lose and more than them its the fans that over react.

I sometimes think that some fans, though not everyone, get caught in a whirlwind with others with similar traits of opposing players where they become obsessed with trying to prove that their man/team is the greatest/greater than their abilities that everything has to be reasoned/explained so that their perceived arguments carries more weight, rather than actually enjoying the sport on show.

Every word made sense clap

by LuvSports! Tue 25 Jun 2013, 12:53 am

It's from kipling's poem "if" my favourite poem (know it off by heart)

"If you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat these two imposters just the same."

by invisiblecoolers Tue 25 Jun 2013, 5:47 am

LuvSports! wrote:It's from kipling's poem "if" my favourite poem (know it off by heart)

"If you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat these two imposters just the same."

Wow thx for quoting, some thing fans have to learn. Hug

by Jahu Tue 25 Jun 2013, 7:08 am

Yes please, stop these crying threads of how Nadal was hurt blla blla. This is sports and if you are not ready to fight or a better player kicks your walnuts, its all ok.

Also the way Nadal plays, he must of known his body will fall apart after a few years of play.

The next player to suffer same bodily grievances is Djoko who has copied Nadal's play style, thought he has only 2 fans in the world, so there wont be many threads about his health demise.

by CaledonianCraig Tue 25 Jun 2013, 7:26 am

No Rafa does not need any of our sympathies that is true.

My sympathies and understanding was offered to his many decent fans who post on this forum and who I see as virtual acquaintances who I converse with daily. I see no value of gloating, taking satisfaction, scoffing or mocking as I know they are hurting enough without me throwing in some smug smart ass comments.

Sure, as a Murray fan, Rafa's defeat boosts Andy's chances, but I can still put that aside and have consideration for others.

by carrieg4 Tue 25 Jun 2013, 7:39 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:No Rafa does not need any of our sympathies that is true.

My sympathies and understanding was offered to his many decent fans who post on this forum and who I see as virtual acquaintances who I converse with daily. I see no value of gloating, taking satisfaction, scoffing or mocking as I know they are hurting enough without me throwing in some smug smart ass comments.

Sure, as a Murray fan, Rafa's defeat boosts Andy's chances, but I can still put that aside and have consideration for others.

''

Very true Craig

by lydian Tue 25 Jun 2013, 8:25 am

invisiblecoolers wrote:See a decent Rafa fan understands my view

So Rafa fans are only decent if they support your view?
Who are the un-decent ones on here seen as you're happy to assume the position of naming the reverse?

by Jeremy_Kyle Tue 25 Jun 2013, 8:55 am

Too all of whom keep on saying "rafa was injured": have you considered that if you are injured you are unable to run, move and thus play?

Hasn't Rafa got top tier medical assistace to check his condition on a day to day basis?
Hasn't he planned to play a tournament spanning in two weeks and consequently to endure maximum of 8 tough matches?
didn't he train on grass before the match? And nontheless he decided to go out on court and play a very even, long match with 2 tb.

Please stop! You are embarassing yourselves and being unfair to anybody play against Rafa.

by lydian Tue 25 Jun 2013, 9:25 am

Well perhaps you can say this to Becker, Krajicek, Henman and others who watched Nadal play live yesterday and also clearly saw his movement was hampered. It's not always black and white, I.e. you can run 100% or not at all.

by CaledonianCraig Tue 25 Jun 2013, 9:30 am

Injuries as well don't prevent you from running but take an edge of your lateral movement. In short you can play on through injury (happens a lot in football) but it hinders performance.

by Jeremy_Kyle Tue 25 Jun 2013, 9:38 am

http://www.niams.nih.gov/Health_Info/Sports_Injuries/sports_injuries_ff.asp

by CaledonianCraig Tue 25 Jun 2013, 9:49 am

I would say that perhaps Rafa's team and even he himself should have thought hard about participating. I say this not to wind anyone up but merely as a genuine thought. I keep harping on about that pre-tournament interview of Rafa's screened yesterday morning on BBC around 11.45am and he sounded far from confident saying things like he hoped the knee would be okay and he sounded uncertain about it. Someone also posted a blog saying Rafa practiced yesterday morning with another Spaniard (his name I can't remember) and Rafa specifically wanted testing on one particular type of shot almost obsessively. Now that tells me he wasn't feeling 100% in the body or the mind.

Perhaps he, or Toni or anyone on his team, should have advised him to withdraw. Look at Andy at the French Open - he had a similar dilemma and took the decision to withdraw even though he badly wanted to take part. Just an after thought and in no way am I looking to upset anyone.

by Haddie-nuff Tue 25 Jun 2013, 9:58 am

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:http://www.niams.nih.gov/Health_Info/Sports_Injuries/sports_injuries_ff.asp

Yes a simple injury ... nothing really...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2U7MIP7fg0

by Jeremy_Kyle Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:09 am

But you don't feel tiring to point out at the injury excuse each time Rafa loses a match?

Tell me that: how can anyone win a match deservedly against Rafa??

by kingraf Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:13 am

Caledonian - Im the one who posted the blog, it was Monaco he was practising with, not a Spaniard. But youre right. To me that indicates some nerves in his gameplay.

by Haddie-nuff Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:16 am

When is an excuse and excuse ? When is a reason a reason?

The man is injured ... everyone knows that and accepts that amateurs and professionals alike.

To a sceptic a reason will always be an excuse because its a simplistic explanation and doesn´t require an depth of thought or reasoning.

Cap fits ???

by kingraf Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:16 am

JK - to be fair, it happens a lot. In 2010, he lost to world number 50 Garcia-Lopez and I dont think anyone cited injury. He lost seven times in a row to Djokovic without injury being memtioned. What I cant understand is how difficult it is to contemplate that a guy with a chronic knee injury could lose a match with the injury being a factor.

by CaledonianCraig Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:22 am

I watched and noticed his really poor movement by his supreme standards - it was crystal clear to me and Boris Becker watching.

The way I see this as people have already made up their minds what they want to believe and nothing will sway them from that if it suits their agenda. I have learnt that being a Murray fan - look at those who still claim Murray to be anti-English from a joke in banter made seven years ago and has been debunked time and time again by Tim Henman and a journalist present at the time Des Kelly. It changes nothing for those that want to dislike someone despite being presented with facts they will stick to their misconceived ideas.

by Haddie-nuff Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:27 am

I applaud Rafa for not retiring..he would not take the glory from Darcis and that must have been so difficult when you are in pain.

Darcis deserved his win IN THOSE circumstances and Rafa knows that.
However I think that once the glory has worn off Darcis will realise that fortune was on his side just an incy bincy bit Wink

.

by CaledonianCraig Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:33 am

Darcis played great and all credit to him. I'd imagine this will be the biggest pay day of perhaps his career and will boost his rankings somewhat. He played all the right shots at the right time and kept fully focussed and kept his nerve when pressured. However, I get the impression he will not be here by the start of next week.

by Jeremy_Kyle Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:38 am

List of unanswered questions:

a) Hasn't Rafa got top tier medical assistace to check his condition on a day to day basis?

b) Hasn't Rafa struggled and being outplayed in the initial sets of the first two rounds at RG? Had he lost, wouldn't you be saying he did because of the injury? Wouldn't you being sayng also that he wasn't moving well and was hitting mostly FH (because he Always does so).

c) Hasn't Rafa shown great form throughout the last few months? Isn't it naive to think that few games played on grass are enough to change radically his condition?

d) Hasn't he planned to play a tournament spanning in two weeks and consequently to endure maximum of 8 tough matches?

e)didn't he train on grass before the match? And nontheless he decided to go out on court and play a very even, long match with 2 tb.

f)how can anyone win a match deservedly against Rafa??

Finally:

Is it so difficult to admit that Rafas poor performance in the first rounds fn grass tournaments are due to the fact that his game is less effective on grass, the ball has lower bounce (so that it doesn't bother players as much as on clay) and the spin trick work less effectively?

by time please Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:41 am

Darcis knows that fortune was on his side 'an incy wincy bit' - he acknowledged that in the interview afterwards.

Still, great credit to him for closing it out and for keeping his head. I hope he thoroughly enjoys his win and also the big fat cheque at the end of his Wimbledon endeavours. An injured Rafa is still more than a match for the vast majority of the tour and there is many a player who wouldn't have played the two tiebreaks as well as Darcis did particularly the second one when it looked as if was slipping away from him.

by CaledonianCraig Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:53 am

A. Yes he has and how do we know what advice they gave him. For all we know they may be advising him to retire from tennis.

B. He did struggle but does that not tell you there is an underlying problem considering he is the bona fide greatest clay court player of all-time? If he was moving as sluggish as yesterday I would have questioned his fitness (and this is a Murray fan speaking remember).

C. He has but on clay - a surface that is kindest on the injury. No it is naive to not realise that different surfaces require different directional changes and different stresses put on the knee.

D. Planning and doing are two different things.

E. He played the Hurlingham exhibition tournament on grass I do believe. How he felt after that I don't know but pre-tournament interview showed him as having doubts as did a pre-match training session with weird requests to test a certain shot onsessively - that alone tells us something.

F. Many players have in the past and will do so again.

Finally, yes his game is less effective on grass. I'd say he is like a well fancied horse in the Grand National but there is a worry about their jumping ability. You feel if they make it to the latter stages they have a superb chance. His game is all about movement and yesterday it was very sluggish (for whatever reason) by his supreme standards.

by Josiah Maiestas Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:57 am

I could see it in Nadal's face he wasn't even slightly excited about his match with Darcis. It seems his grass future will be a dark one

by Josiah Maiestas Tue 25 Jun 2013, 10:59 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:When is an excuse and excuse ? When is a reason a reason?

The man is injured ... everyone knows that and accepts that amateurs and professionals alike.

To a sceptic a reason will always be an excuse because its a simplistic explanation and doesn´t require an depth of thought or reasoning.

Cap fits ???

Yes Nadal is the only one who gets pain in his knees we know that already change the record no one else is ever injured

by break_in_the_fifth Tue 25 Jun 2013, 11:00 am

As long as Nadal is ok long term then I agree there is no need for sympathy as as far as I'm concerned grass court tennis won on grass.

by Haddie-nuff Tue 25 Jun 2013, 11:00 am

e)didn't he train on grass before the match? And nontheless he decided to go out on court and play a very even, long match with 2 tb
----------------------
He never trained on grass, he never played at Halle, why because his Doctor told him not to... I believe he was told not to play Wimbers either and if he hadnt.. all the SCEPTICS .. would have been saying it was because Rosol knocked him out in the 2nd round last year.
Does any of that make sense to you. ???? If he had withdrawn from Wimbers it would have been called an excuse... if he played and lost and it was his knee that too is an excuse... DAMNED IF HE DID... and Damned if he didnt. There is such a thing as pride he had proven himself by winning RG what he probably would never tell you is he shot his knee in the process.

by Haddie-nuff Tue 25 Jun 2013, 11:02 am

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:When is an excuse and excuse ? When is a reason a reason?

The man is injured ... everyone knows that and accepts that amateurs and professionals alike.

To a sceptic a reason will always be an excuse because its a simplistic explanation and doesn´t require an depth of thought or reasoning.

Cap fits ???
Yes Nadal is the only one who gets pain in his knees we know that already change the record no one else is ever injured

Well I could go on Joshua and name some who get a pain in the neck

by kingraf Tue 25 Jun 2013, 11:03 am

I do take issue with the OP. Of course Nadal's defeat isnt the end of the world. I would even wager that most people's lives didnt change greatly this morning (except those who put their house on Darcis winning). But in a sports forumn, you would expect the defeat to take an exagerrated importance. Mainly because its a tennis forum, Wimbledon is the biggest tournament in the world, and Nadal losing is big news. Criticizing this is akin to finding it shocking that there are 1000 comments on a thread titled "The importance of sugar in fudge" on a foodie forum.

by time please Tue 25 Jun 2013, 11:06 am

kingraf wrote:But in a sports forumn, you would expect the defeat to take an exagerrated importance. Mainly because its a tennis forum, Wimbledon is the biggest tournament in the world, and Nadal losing is big news. Criticizing this is akin to finding it shocking that there are 1000 comments on a thread titled "The importance of sugar in fudge" on a foodie forum.

Exactly!

by Haddie-nuff Tue 25 Jun 2013, 11:06 am

I think you will find that Rafa has accepted his loss far better than his fans, this forum, the media and the world and his wife.
He has probably flown back to Mallorca by now and if he has any sense he will be on his boat and fishing in the deep blue med. Weather being beautiful at the moment.. relax and enjoy Rafa:hug:

by CaledonianCraig Tue 25 Jun 2013, 11:10 am

A cure for fans animosity:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b02ywyts/Andy_Murray_The_Man_Behind_the_Racquet/

Watch that and tell me all of the top players aren't warm, friendly human beings and so no need for snide comments about them.

by break_in_the_fifth Tue 25 Jun 2013, 11:18 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:e)didn't he train on grass before the match? And nontheless he decided to go out on court and play a very even, long match with 2 tb
----------------------
He never trained on grass, he never played at Halle, why because his Doctor told him not to... I believe he was told not to play Wimbers either and if he hadnt.. all the SCEPTICS .. would have been saying it was because Rosol knocked him out in the 2nd round last year.
Does any of that make sense to you. ???? If he had withdrawn from Wimbers it would have been called an excuse... if he played and lost and it was his knee that too is an excuse... DAMNED IF HE DID... and Damned if he didnt. There is such a thing as pride he had proven himself by winning RG what he probably would never tell you is he shot his knee in the process.

Most people accept that Rosol was a one off and considered him one of the favourites this time round just like last time. Not playing was still an option.

by HM Murdock Tue 25 Jun 2013, 11:26 am

The thing that gets my goat is that when Rafa was fit enough to win, that was down to strength of character.

When he is not fit enough to win, that's down to the injury.

Are there any circumstances that exist where Rafa is not a saintly colossus battling adversity?

by Haddie-nuff Tue 25 Jun 2013, 11:27 am

bitf I know you and others may have heard me say this before.. but seriously there is a different mindset with the Spanish people.. to Rafa it probably was not an option ... albeit Toni and others may well have tried talking sense to him but .. if he knew that the knee was already in trouble he would doubtlessly opted to appear. Bearing in mind he withdrew once before when he was the reigning champion. Appearing at Wimbledon meant a lot to Rafa (as it does all pro tennis players). He went for broke imo. And once he was seeded No..5. if he had withdrawn then .. what would have been said ??? and then the draw??? Lord it doesnt bear thinking about.

by Haddie-nuff Tue 25 Jun 2013, 11:28 am

HM Murdoch wrote:The thing that gets my goat is that when Rafa was fit enough to win, that was down to strength of character.

When he is not fit enough to win, that's down to the injury.

Ahttp://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/tramlines/nadal-defeat-raises-more-questions-035330426.htmlre there any circumstances that exist where Rafa is not a saintly colossus battling adversity?

by Haddie-nuff Tue 25 Jun 2013, 11:30 am

[quote="Haddie-nuff"][quote="HM Murdoch"]The thing that gets my goat is that when Rafa was fit enough to win, that was down to strength of character.

When he is not fit enough to win, that's down to the injury.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/tramlines/nadal-defeat-raises-more-questions-035330426.html

by Guest Tue 25 Jun 2013, 11:44 am

I agree he doesn't need sympathy for the defeat. I saw a Mexican Rafa fan on Sky Sports and she was almost in tears over the defeat. Given his accomplishments it's a stretch.

However, if he is not healthy and is suffering with his knees then I do have sympathy. Be it Rafa or anyone I know, if someone has something debilitating they have my full sympathy.

Sometimes pride rules the head. Take Murray. Pulled out of the FO due to his back and looks good. Maybe Rafa should've followed his example and skipped Wimbledon if he was not at 100% because who can say what further damage he has done by playing.

by Haddie-nuff Tue 25 Jun 2013, 11:50 am

Rafa is certainly not asking for sympathy. On his Spanish blog he states that " I went on court believing I could play". (which makes me think he was told otherwise) however he goes on to say it really is now down to the decision making of himself along with his team.. he cannot say what his future schedule will be only that what happened to him before he does not want to happen again. He WANTS to play the US Open but he will not commit himself to saying anymore than that.

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