Wimbledon - Mens Semi Final Day 12

First topic message reminder :

Well here we are at the business end. Centre Court will be the gladitorial theatre. Here's hoping for some blockbuster encounters and winners by the bucketloads!

Novak Djokovic v Juan Martin Del Potro

Andy Murray v Jerzy Janowicz

The first one certainly the pick of the matches.

The money is on another Andy v Novak final. Can Delpo and Jerzy cause the top seeds a massive upset to rival the biggest upsets?

Ah the usual crap being written here about Murray I see. Why is it that when Murray is winning it is always the other guy going off the boil?  

Henman Bill wrote:speaking of short term bandwagoning there was a whiff of Nadal is the GOAT and will break the slam record after the FO, and now it's gone back to Nadal is finished again!

Goldfish bandwaggoners.

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Henman Bill wrote:speaking of short term bandwagoning there was a whiff of Nadal is the GOAT and will break the slam record after the FO, and now it's gone back to Nadal is finished again!

Good one HB. I had noticed!! By all accounts Nadal was going to walk this event

Still a pity he went out though

Ban, I said that's all Jerzy has got (the serve)...beyond that there's not much here to get excited about despite the rabid crowd baying for the Pole's blood and cheering everything for Murray/against Jerzy. Murray has served well but there's only one winner in the ralleys. Jerzy's serve isn't even that well placed, just fast making it actually not too bad to return. Djokovic will be a different matter altogether.

Jerky is a busted flush here.

Who was that with the fist pump on a double fault, was that Murray's gf caught out - oops!

Just the 11 double faults then, Jerzy?

CaledonianCraig wrote:Ah the usual crap being written here about Murray I see. Why is it that when Murray is winning it is always the other guy going off the boil?  

Good point. Every which way you analyse this match, it's been Murray's play, where he never should have lost the first set that has been impressive

I was wrong about the frosty handshake

Where did Murray nullify JJ serve? Jerzy double faults were not caused by Murray! If anything JJ trying too hard on his 2nd serve because he knows he's 2nd best on baseline rallies...

Oops...iPad auto corrected Jerzy lol

Disappointing meet at the net for those hoping for a frosty reaction.

I can't remember who it was but someone a few days ago won a point on a net cord, fist pumped, put up their hands to apologise, then fist pumped again

Here comes the test... Gary Richardson

Superb stuff from Andy. Other than the first set tie break and the early part of the 3rd, this was similar to his Olympics performance

Have to say helped by JJ, who gave him all the motivation he needed

Yes lydian you do have a point. However, lets just remembers stats-wise that Janowicz has been the biggest server by some way at this tournament and Murray negated that and that alone deserves credit. I do agree that Djokovic will be a different prospect and I'd favour him as some facets of Andy's game has not been at his best here.

Very efficiently played Murray  

My preference would be for no interviews immediately after the match.

Gary will just play it safe here.

And well done to Novak and Andy their 3rd consecutive Slam final and 4th in the last 6 and either one of them have been in the last 8

Maybe now's the time to acknolwedge that with them in charge, it ain't that bad

Amir Kahn was in the crowd, did you feel like punching Jerzy for wanting the roof shut?

GET IN ANDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now i really am looking to the Wimbledon BBQ im going to on Sunday afternoon!!!!!

the year of shocks but still 1 vs 2 in the final. But BBC would do well to remember who is 1 and who is 2 in their build up to the match.

I think they learned their lesson after their Australian Open "murray isn't playing Federer or Nadal in the final, so he'll surely win" debacle, and Murray has narrowed the gap since though.

whocares wrote:Where did Murray nullify JJ serve? Jerzy double faults were not caused by Murray! If anything JJ trying too hard on his 2nd serve because he knows he's 2nd best on baseline rallies...

 
When your rival gets back a 138mph serve in the first game, with interest - you will inevitably start double faulting, simply because you know that you have to push more than normal
 
Amazing. As per usual, it's the opponent playing badly - not the sheer intensity of Murray's game, that caused the win
 
Next someone will be telling us that Murray only got 20 aces (or whatever it was) because JJ's elbow was hurting him

Not Murray's fault in facing these guys but what a dream route to a slam final on grass...unbelievable really.

banbrotam wrote:And well done to Novak and Andy their 3rd consecutive Slam final and 4th in the last 6 and either one of them have been in the last 8

Maybe now's the time to acknolwedge that with them in charge, it ain't that bad

Ah, more short term bandwagoning. I recall everyone saying after the French Open Nadal for year end no 1 now.

I will give you this though: in non-clay tournaments, they are the clear top 2. Three non clay grand slam finals in a row is that?

Yes, but Lydian, if he beats the no 1 in the world to win the title , while Djokovic is in the best grass form of his life, you won't have anything to say then right?

lydian wrote:Not Murray's fault in facing these guys but what a dream route to a slam final on grass...unbelievable really.

He beat the guys who beat the guys. Basically he beat the form grass court players on his half of the draw.
How dumb would you have to be not to realise that ?

Hang on a minute, that's pretty harsh, no need to throw insults around.

As dumb as someone who didn't read the first 7 words I wrote.

HB, absolutely, as written before that's the true test. It's not a criticism, it's an observation.

Lets remember he dispatched Youznhy in straight sets a couple of weeks after the same player had stretched grass master Federer to three sets in Halle in the final. Also he out-served the greatest server at this Wimbledon in Janowicz so there have been potentially tough matches there.

Henman Bill wrote:

banbrotam wrote:And well done to Novak and Andy their 3rd consecutive Slam final and 4th in the last 6 and either one of them have been in the last 8

Maybe now's the time to acknolwedge that with them in charge, it ain't that bad

Ah, more short term bandwagoning. I recall everyone saying after the French Open Nadal for year end no 1 now.

I will give you this though: in non-clay tournaments, they are the clear top 2. Three non clay grand slam finals in a row is that?

Here's something you might like, in the preamble to the AO final

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/27/andy-murray-novak-djokovic-live

Morning. In the 60s it was Rod Laver v Ken Rosewall, at the turn of the 70s to 80s it was John McEnroe v Bjorn Borg, in the late 80s it was Stefan Edberg v Boris Becker, in the 90s it was Pete Sampras v Andre Agassi and in the last decade it was Roger Federer v Rafael Nadal. Tennis has always been defined by great rivalries and now, it seems, we could be witnessing the start of another.

Andy Murray and Novak Djokovic have some way to go before they reach the 35 meetings between Edberg and Becker, or the 28 we’ve witnessed between Federer and Nadal (the Murray v Djokovic count will hit 18 today), but time is on their side. While Federer turns 32 this year and Nadal nurses his wounded knees ahead of a planned return next month, Murray and Djokovic, both at 25, are reaching what should be the height of their physical powers.

This is the second straight grand slam final they’ve contested...

That 4th set is maybe the best Murray has played all fortnight. Don't know what he was comaining at about the roof!

I've strongly fancied Djokovic since the start, and each round nothing has changed my mind... But with Murray's performance at the end and Novak's marathon today I may reassess....

I'm not even going to bother saying what a great match that was and that Jerky produced some great shots, his serve let him down at crucial times, but apart from that, Murray showed the great Pole what it feels like to have your service returned 80% of the time (or thereabouts)

Murray played brilliantly considering Jerky was on form for most of the 1st half, but when Andy pumped up the play, he faltered, he's young and will learn and has had a magnificent slam run.

Can't take anything away from Murray, he neutered the 140mph serve and played a clinical match to get to the final.

End of my rant. good bye.

Speaking of draws, why was Haas - Berdych - Del Potro ever considered to be an easy draw for Novak?

Don't get all defensive guys, it's just an observation, it's not every day you reach a slam final in this way (highest ranked player faced #20). That said, Murray/Djokovic have been the strongest off clay in slams as said elsewhere.

lydian wrote:Not Murray's fault in facing these guys but what a dream route to a slam final on grass...unbelievable really.

You have an argument, but every one of Murray's opponents had even been round the block and hence capable of surprise or good on grass

Other than perhaps his 2nd round he had know really easy games

But only the one hard one as well

I was impressed with Janowicz today considering what he had to deal with. Partisan crowd, first slam semi, the opponent and everything else and he competed very well in those circumstances. I like the fact he has a personalty as well as a bit of attitude and I feel if he can work on other aspects of his game he can break into the top ten and can see him being a regular contender at Wimbledon with that serve.

lydian wrote:As dumb as someone who didn't read the first 7 words I wrote.

HB, absolutely, as written before that's the true test. It's not a criticism, it's an observation.

Rubbish. Saying its not his fault who he plays is patronising to him and the guys he has had to beat. He has beaten the form guys on grass in his half of the draw which started with 3 of the 4 favourites for the title in it, its really that simple. For all we know JJ and Verdasco could have blasted through the other side of the draw.

HM Murdoch wrote:Speaking of draws, why was Haas - Berdych - Del Potro ever considered to be an easy draw for Novak?

It looked easier than Murray's Tsonga, Nadal, Djokovic when the draw was made. That's "easier", not "easy".

Obviously through the freakish results it turned out the tougher draw.

How do you feel for Sunday Murdoch, confident? Unsure?

Henman Bill wrote:

banbrotam wrote:And well done to Novak and Andy their 3rd consecutive Slam final and 4th in the last 6 and either one of them have been in the last 8

Maybe now's the time to acknolwedge that with them in charge, it ain't that bad

Ah, more short term bandwagoning. I recall everyone saying after the French Open Nadal for year end no 1 now.

I will give you this though: in non-clay tournaments, they are the clear top 2. Three non clay grand slam finals in a row is that?

I made an error - it isn't the last three. It's the last three away from cly. But as you alude to in your post - not certain it can be seen as short termism. They've now established a dominant postion and you have to wonder whether Nadal will be bothered to challenge, given it will compromsie his clay court energies

As for Roger, I've already said that I think he'll win here next year and then quit

Well it's an ageing top 10 so he has every chance of breaking into it in future. His game still needs a lot of work but the tour needs a new guy like this. Hopefully he can back up this progress with a good USO run.

CaledonianCraig wrote:I was impressed with Janowicz today considering what he had to deal with. Partisan crowd, first slam semi, the opponent and everything else and he competed very well in those circumstances. I like the fact he has a personalty as well as a bit of attitude and I feel if he can work on other aspects of his game he can break into the top ten and can see him being a regular contender at Wimbledon with that serve.

For the first two sets I thought the crowd was quite mute and it was the Polish happy clappers that were dominating. I actually though JJ made some dumb errors that made me wonder whether he's a flash in the pan;-

1) Overuse of the drop shot - someone like Murray is eventually going to overcome these
2) Excessive 'in your face' celebrations (that actually made Andy's worst moments look like a choir boy). Like it did against Melzer, all it does is motivate your opponent and hence we saw that result in the last hour
3) Moaning about the roof. Why on earth did he think perfect slightly slower conditions would help him against one of the best indoor players out there? Was he really that naive he thought his Paris win of last year would be a factor

Murray has justified his no 2 ranking ahead of Nadal now with 3 out of the last 4 slam finals. But I will add he hasn't achieved it by actually beating Nadal, since the two have really avoided each other for the most part in recent times. That's an overdue match on the tour. So it's still all to play for and for me if you asked me who is more likely to finish in the top 2 say one year from now (i.e. resetting the points from now to zero) if all players are fully fit and motivated it's not clear to me if you would go with Murray or Rafa.

Pretty clear that you would choose Djokovic.

And probably fairly clear you wouldn't choose Federer, Ferrer, Del Potro or anyone else.

By the way, Del Potro had proven again he is a cut above the likes of Berdych and Tsonga and if he isn't in the top 5 yet it's only through lack of consistency compared to Ferrer.

Well done AM.

However it was a shame Rafa & Roger got knocked out by players ranked in the 100's so early in the tournament.

Mind you I should add these thoughts about not being clear cut who is the 2nd best player on tour are pre final or assuming a Djokovic win.

If Murray wins the final the discussion will be more about the battle for 1 which Murray would presumably get if he wins Wimbledon and adds the US Open.

sportslover wrote:Well done AM.

However it was a shame Rafa & Roger got knocked out by players ranked in the 100's so early in the tournament.

Nadal's was a shame because he lost because he wasn't at his best but Federer's was actually quite an exciting match that added to the tournament at that moment, although admittedly took something out at say the quarter final stage.

Sunday is a very interesting match-up. I would have to say that Novak has played at the higher level more consistently throughout this tournament compared to Andy. However, I would say that Andy is the better grass court player. It could go either way.

Actually now I actually look at the rankings Murray can win Wimbledon and the US Open and Djokovic would probably still be ranked first. As he has to defend the full 2,000 points he won't actually get the no 1 ranking probably if he wins Wimbledon and the US Open. Although I am quite sure Greg Rusedski on Sky would be pointing out that Murray is the locker room no 1.

I think we are destined for a five set war and a classic between djoko and Murray. I favor Murray ever so slightly. The grass and the home court favor Murray in a match that should be played with very tight margins. Whoever serves for the highest first serve percentage will have a big edge in this match as both return so well. Nothing really new these two have played each other and it always comes down to who serves better

Danny_1982 wrote:How do you feel for Sunday Murdoch, confident? Unsure?

Unsure.

I think Novak is playing a little better overall than Andy but he hasn't converted the break points at all well this fortnight.

And I don't expect Andy to give him many, so I kind of expect a match that feels close as you watch it but a final scoreline looks like a relatively straight forward win for Andy.

Not much in it though.

You?