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The first hole

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The first hole Empty The first hole

Post by lorus59 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 1:13 pm

Do you guys have any thoughts about how the first hole should be on any golf course? Should it be a par 3, 4 or 5? Should it be a relatively easy introduction to the round or is it ok to be a brute? Do you know any first holes that are the hardest hole on any course?

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by George1507 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 1:19 pm

Personally, I think it shouldn't be a really hard hole. I don't care what the par is, but you should be able to ease yourself into the round without having to negotiate a really tough opening hole. And purely on the basis of getting a competition field moving, you don't want the first to be causing a big hold up.

Interestingly, the first at Muirfield is always one of the toughest holes. I think it was the hardest on day 1, playing into the breeze. Easier on days 2,3 and 4 when the wind switched.

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by raycastleunited Tue 23 Jul 2013, 1:32 pm

Strangely I was thinking about the same thing this morning while sitting on the tube to work!

I'm with George on this one. A nice medium length par 4 to ease you into your round. I used to play at a course which opened with a par 3 to a narrow green. It used to take forever to get off the first as most people missed the green, chipped on and then took a couple of putts.

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by McLaren Tue 23 Jul 2013, 1:47 pm

Harry Colt thought the first hole should be long but not especially difficult, in order to give the player a chance to get into their swing. He also said the first should not hug the boundary.

Some great first holes to give us some clues about what is good in a first hole;

TOC
North Berwick
Royal Melbourne West
Brancaster
Dornoch
machrihanish
silloth
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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by Roller_Coaster Tue 23 Jul 2013, 2:05 pm

Interesting.

My opinion, Par 4, not too much in the way of course management requirements, something that allows most players to use a wood of some description and a mid (7/8) iron (at most) for your second shot. This should get the body and mind dialled in to big sticks and irons. If the second misses the green the surrounds should be relatively easy to allow a comparitively simple chip. Green can be a bit tougher as you should have just got off the practise green anyway.

Often it simply seems to be a hole to get away from the clubhouse and on to better golfing land and space!

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by barragan Tue 23 Jul 2013, 2:12 pm

I like ours. An easy par 5 (495yd), which ought to be a simple birdie if you've warmed up properly and hit a decent drive, but can punish those who haven't i.e. the majority of the field.

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by McLaren Tue 23 Jul 2013, 2:36 pm

I have read many times that back in the day, when matchplay was the form of choice, when designing a first you also had to consider its merits as a 19th hole.

A par 5 of the type ban mentions can tick a few boxes. Good chance to get into the round and the chance of shot swing as a 19th matchplay hole.
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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by navyblueshorts Tue 23 Jul 2013, 3:37 pm

As long as it's not a killer hole, I would have thought anything would work. I have a hate/hate relationship with ours - ~410, up hill slightly, OoB right (which means I'm often in the rough left), narrow, long green.... mad.
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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by busted Tue 23 Jul 2013, 3:53 pm

Atherstone's first hole is a right killer - elevated tee , OB tight on left and right, and a stream to carry at about 150-160 yds ... so need a long-ish iron to carry.
Bunkers over the water i nmiddle of fairway.
2nd shot steep uphill, blind, OB right, very steep drop-off left (rolls 40-50 yds !)

layup with 9 iron leaves about 180 to said green ...
nightmare

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by beninho Tue 23 Jul 2013, 5:03 pm

Ideally one where you cannot be seen by anyone else. I get horrible first tee nerves when being watched!

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by Davie Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:52 pm

I really don't see the fuss over the 1st hole. Whether it is easy or hard (*) it shouldn't matter as it is the same for everyone unless you are playing a shotgun start in which case they are fun comps anyway

Our first is a tough hole - almost 90 degree dogleg left at around 190-200 yards. When you consider that most higher handicappers are more likely to slice than hook, it leaves a VERY long second shot.

A good, accurate lower handicapper who can draw the ball can do a nice job on it - as can a long bomber who can blast it over the dogleg - but neither is really the shot of choice unless in a team event

(*) - Don't forget easy/hard is so subjective - I've posted on here before about our 2nd hole which is a beast for high handicappers but an easy hole for good players

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by matelot golfer Tue 23 Jul 2013, 8:33 pm

Having played Saunton for a week last month, I think they have the hardest opening hole I have ever played. 486 yd par 4 off an elevated tee of about 40ft above the fairway. The green is not very big either and is just a 5yd wide sliver at the back, interestingly, where they had the pin on 3 days. Killer start!!
Used to think our 200 yd par 3 start at Mullion, with green sloping away from you was tough, but not after playing that!!! Lol

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by SmithersJones Tue 23 Jul 2013, 10:27 pm

Hardest opening hole I've played is at Basildon gc, a public course in deepest, naffest Essex. 450 yard uphill par 4 with OOB down the left, trees right and a fairway sloping right to left with the green on a kind of outcrop in the side of the hill. Not a friendly start, especially with a 230 yard par 3 2nd and then another 460 yard dog leg third with more OOB left. Thereafter, it's quite an easy course.

Our first is on the face of it a reasonably gentle par 4 of 400 yards. In reality, it's one of the toughest on the course (even if you've warmed up, Bara!) with OOB left, trees both sides and playing from a slightly elevated tee down and back up hill into the prevailing wind and doglegging right to left, so that outside of the dry, running conditions of this time of year it's quite normal to have a long iron or wood into a narrow green.

Interesting about Colt's philosophy, Mac. I learned to play on a Colt design, another public course in Essex called Belfairs, and that opens with a 150 yard par 3 with a huge green. Quite possible it wasn't always the first of course.
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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by JAS Tue 23 Jul 2013, 10:28 pm

...not forgetting that it normally plays into the wind too Matelot!! Are you playing their Open this weekend too??

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by McLaren Wed 24 Jul 2013, 5:14 am

SmithersJones wrote:Hardest opening hole I've played is at Basildon gc, a public course in deepest, naffest Essex. 450 yard uphill par 4 with OOB down the left, trees right and a fairway sloping right to left with the green on a kind of outcrop in the side of the hill. Not a friendly start, especially with a 230 yard par 3 2nd and then another 460 yard dog leg third with more OOB left. Thereafter, it's quite an easy course.

Thats a bad hole where ever it comes in the round.


Davie

easy/hard may be subjective but good architecture means a hole playable for all.
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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by dynamark Wed 24 Jul 2013, 7:22 am

Busted -When I first stood on the first tee at atherstone I genuinely had no idea where the hole went.there doesn't appear to be a golf hole in the vicinity!!
Even looking at the tee blocks didn't help much it is that difficult plus a few others on there to boot.
I prefer a par 4 to start.TBH ours is a bit flawed with a new plantation OB all down the left and heavy woodland down the right narrowing at the drive area.Ive seen fourballs where everyone had two tee shots and a mate went 7 off the tee recently(7 handicap)Its relatively easy to take a conservative 5 but that's not always the best mindset for a round.Our second is the hardest hole on the course as well which means bogey bogey start is never a bad thing.

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by matelot golfer Wed 24 Jul 2013, 10:30 am

Oh yeh, forgot to mention the wind factor!! No, not playing JAS as its a 230 mile round trip for me in a day, plus we have our club championships this coming Sunday, and really want to have a good crack at that this year.

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by super_realist Wed 24 Jul 2013, 11:24 am

The first on TOC is a dreadful hole. Way too easy. Although playing with my old man once he managed to go OB left, then go OB right with his second ball. Widest fairway in golf.

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by raycastleunited Wed 24 Jul 2013, 12:41 pm

super_realist wrote:The first on TOC is a dreadful hole. Way too easy. Although playing with my old man once he managed to go OB left, then go OB right with his second ball. Widest fairway in golf.

On a course like TOC, I would suggest an easy opening hole is a good thing. For many (most?) golfers it is probably a once in a lifetime event so unfamiliarity and nerves must lead to some shocking tee shots.

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by McLaren Wed 24 Jul 2013, 2:08 pm

super_realist wrote:The first on TOC is a dreadful hole. Way too easy. Although playing with my old man once he managed to go OB left, then go OB right with his second ball. Widest fairway in golf.

Ian baker finch managed OB left.

IBF goes OB left at TOC 1ST:
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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by kwinigolfer Wed 24 Jul 2013, 2:40 pm

Best first hole I've ever played is the first at Seven Oaks, the Robert Trent Jones course at Colgate University - site of Scott Simpson's 1977 NCAA Championship.

440-ish slight dog-leg left.
Hit from a slightly elevated tee to a generous tree-lined fairway. A creek runs horizontally across the fairway at about 280 yards, out of reach of most mid-to-high handicappers who are then faced with an uphill approach to a green with another small stream about thirty yards short.
Gently undulating green but open at the front, bunker defences either side.
Almost better played as a par-5 by mid-to-high handicappers, a demanding, but fair, par-4 to low handicappers.
A couple of straightforward holes follow, but a worthy introduction to a lovely course.

And it's 18th hole also a cracker, par-5 with a stream trickling down the right-hand side of the fairway but reachable with two good shots for the longer hitter.



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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by MustPuttBetter Wed 24 Jul 2013, 4:28 pm

Anyone played Walmer & Kingsdown? That's a tricky first hole, the hardest i've played.
It's only 340ish but is all uphill and into the prevailing wind so plays nearer 440. OB left and right.
Nasty

The 1st at Bramley you can drive the green. That's my kind of opening hole!
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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by oldshanker Thu 25 Jul 2013, 12:11 am

La Cala - Asian course, First thing in the morning after a skinful the night before, with the rising sun straight into your already weak and weepy red rimmed eyes. 'Nuff said!
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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by puligny Thu 25 Jul 2013, 1:33 pm

A favourite course is Hayling Island. Fabulous links course in Hampshire - indeed the only Links in Hampshire. Starts with a par 3 180ish yards which depending on wind is anything from 9 iron to 3 wood. Love the course, but would never choose a par 3 as the start, and especially not this one!

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by twoeightnine Fri 26 Jul 2013, 11:02 am

I've played a few courses with a par 3 to start which is a tough way to start. The blue course starts with a 200+yd one with a long carry over heather and trees left. Just to add to the theatre you are teeing off from in front of the bar with the hole running at an angle to the clubhouse so they have a great view! It can be very slow to get going.

I play at a James Braid course and he had a theory that the opening drive should be an easy one. We have two fairways to aim at but OOB either side so lots of lost balls. Then there is a big ridge at about 200 yards which needs a carry of about 260 to get up otherwise you feed off it and have about 220 yards uphill. Although its a par 4 if you walk off with a 5 you are happy and it consistently is ranked in the toughest four holes on the course in medals.

I agree with Braid that you want a reasonably easy first drive to get you underway but after that I'm not so bothered so long as its fair.

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by busted Fri 26 Jul 2013, 2:35 pm

dynamark wrote:Busted -When I first stood on the first tee at atherstone I genuinely had no idea where the hole went.there doesn't appear to be a golf hole in the vicinity!!
Even looking at the tee blocks didn't help much it is that difficult plus a few others on there to boot.

When did you play it ? I think theyve added 3 new holes since then -
First time I played it i was about to tee off down te 18th the wrong way, as you said, you cant imagine there is a golf course in the other direction .. I was wondering why the white markers were closer than the yellow ones !

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by Doon the Water Sat 27 Jul 2013, 8:45 am

1st at Puttenham GC in Surrey is a short Par 4 that is steeply uphill.
Tee shot is at the base of a disused sandpit now overgrown with gorse and heather.
In the middle of the fairway is a massive oak tree that you would struggle to hit over with a driver.
On the left of the fairway is woods, on the right the village bowling green and cemetery.
Best shot is a cut three wood left of the tree.
A card wrecker or a birdie

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 27 Jul 2013, 12:31 pm

Hi Doon,
Drove past Puttenham GC the other day, made me think of all the comments about it on here, especially the first! And the first is a bit early for a "card wrecker", surely. (Tho' not for me I suppose.)

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by McLaren Sat 27 Jul 2013, 1:45 pm

Kwini

If in that area you should check out Liphook.
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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by kwinigolfer Sat 27 Jul 2013, 1:49 pm

Mac,
Not there any more but am quite familiar with Liphook as I grew up (in a manner of speaking) in the area, though have not actually played golf at LGC. Just a matter of time.

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by golfermartin Sat 27 Jul 2013, 4:47 pm

Our first hole is a bit of a stinker too. It is a dog-leg right with OOB all the way down the right. It's around 230 yards to the corner, but if you take a club to get you there and pull it, the fairway all runs away to the left where there are trees. If I go there, I'm nearly always right behind one! There is a ridge running diagonally across the fairway which also pushes tee shots left. If you can run the tee shot within about 10 yards of OOB, you can probably get to A1 position. The second shot is normally around 170 to 180 yards through a gap about 10 paces wide and across a valley. (From the perfect spot it's probably only 145, but I don't think I've ever been there). If you take the club to reach the green and pull it, it runs down onto the second tee (from which it is a compulsory free drop in a dropping zone due to the sleeper revetment), against the fence or amongst the trees and scrub. The slope in front of the green is much, much steeper on the right than on the left so you can't run it in from there. OOB is around 15 yards right of the green, but you can run it in on that side. Because I can't fade a ball, I never go for the green in two in a medal. In a bounce game I might try, but I rarely (if ever) make it. If I can get an up and down for par - brilliant, but I'll always take a 5.

If you can fade, it's a bit easier than it is for me, but it's still one tough hole.

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The first hole Empty Re: The first hole

Post by dynamark Sun 28 Jul 2013, 8:20 am

Busted I did exactly the same went to tee off in the opposite direction it must have happened!
I play there every couple of years with an old school buddy.The newer holes are for some reason called 'the killing fields'by the members.theres a really difficult hole after that around a farm,quarry in the middle of one hole,one that turns over 90 degrees and dissappers into a wood,super little course.
Back to ours I hit a poor drive yesterday so put second into position for a 90yard pitch and walked away with a tidy four maybe the way to approach it.

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