Haye v Fury - official poll

First topic message reminder :

Really interested in your take. I have money on haye by KO Round 1-6. May balance it with a small Fury bet to make sure I come out even, but so long as Haye doesn't suffer from rust and lay off, I can only see one outcome.

Also, any other fights coming up that you are having a punt on?

azania wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:

azania wrote:Have you got the link to that sparring session?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMvK34c3EiY

Have to say that it was impressive. Loved the sharp counters off the ropes. Wonder why he decided to release a video of himself looking good.

I liked the climbing up the rope with the weighted wife beater. Do it myself occasionally when I'm at a loose end.

owen, ou don't have to be the biggest puncher to get Haye out of there. If a SMW goat herder who is lower than a D - level fighter can deck and wobble him badly then an average hitting HW can take him out.

Haye is the favourite and rightly so. But you guys are seriously under-estimating Fury. For your sake I hope Haye doesn't.

An example of some terrible predictions from us all. No wonder I'm doing so bad in the prediction league.

https://www.606v2.com/t44251p50-prizefighter-alexander-vs-purdy-peterson-vs-matthyse-fight-thread

https://www.606v2.com/t43093-trout-v-canelo

not sure where your basing hayes chin issues on az, seeing though he went 12 rounds with wlad who got one of the best knock out ratios around. and despite his running tactics wlad did land clean

Are you forgetting the number of times he has been bounced and wobbled?

If Khan went 12 rounds and won against Mathysse would you say he has an iron chin or say Lucas didn't hit him properly?

I hold my hat up with my Matthysse prediction v Garcia. Didn't see him losing that.

Haye does rock Wilder therer pretty badly. Looks like serious sparring sessions have been had. Probably necessary to make up for Hayes time out of ring.

his only other loss was thompson and he didn't get knocked out but stopped as he had gassed, and he got knocked down by mormeck being reckless but got up and stopped him. other than cant remember him being hurt much, certainly not since stepping up into heavy where he doesn't have to strip himself

hardly chinny that list!

He was decked badly by Lolenga Mock (massive puncher - not) who was a blown up SMW who in the absolute beast of his best was a goat herder. He wasn;t reckless against Mormeck. He was cornered and decked by a right to the top of his head. Wasn't a huge punch either) but more of a disorientating punch. He was decked (called a slip against Barret) and hurt by Ruiz.

Not only did he gas against Carl, he was out on his feet through punches landed. Lets not go changing actual events to suit an argument.

But what gets me is why the excuses? He has flaws. No harm in calling them out.

azania wrote:He was decked badly by Lolenga Mock (massive puncher - not) who was a blown up SMW who in the absolute beast of his best was a goat herder. He wasn;t reckless against Mormeck. He was cornered and decked by a right to the top of his head. Wasn't a huge punch either) but more of a disorientating punch. He was decked (called a slip against Barret) and hurt by Ruiz.

Not only did he gas against Carl, he was out on his feet through punches landed. Lets not go changing actual events to suit an argument.

But what gets me is why the excuses? He has flaws. No harm in calling them out.

agree i don't think anything is wrong with calling out flaws, i don't particularly like haye and want fury to win this fight (not that i can see it happening) but just dont see him as chinny. one stoppage defeat when he was green doesn't convince me enough and neither does some fight he won in only his 7th fight. was ringside at ruiz and don't remember him being hurt (had had a few ales to be fair) and barret was more being off balanced than anything else, each time he's been put down he's been pretty clear headed and recovered, not a sign of someone who's chinny

I like Haye and Fury. I want Fury to win because he is a full time boxer. In the ring he delivers entertaining fights and when its all said and done, it isn't a personality contest. I want to be entertained.

But Fury is chinny because he has been decked by light hitting heavyweights, but Haye not despite being dropped by a goat herding SMW. I don't get that.

If Haye got caught flush by Cunny, do you think he would still be standing?

All your arguments about Haye's chin applies to Fury also. There is zero substantial difference between their chins. If either gets hit they will go.

if haye got caught by "that" punch by cunningham then no he wouldn't be stood up, but haye wouldn't have been caught by such a telegraphed punch

i dont think fury is that chinny, he's just frigging useless at getting out of the way of massive over hand rights, even crusiers can throw hurtful shots if you stand in front of them and fury is rubbish at getting out of the way

compelling and rich wrote:if haye got caught by "that" punch by cunningham then no he wouldn't be stood up, but haye wouldn't have been caught by such a telegraphed punch

i dont think fury is that chinny, he's just frigging useless at getting out of the way of massive over hand rights, even crusiers can throw hurtful shots if you stand in front of them and fury is rubbish at getting out of the way

Fury is not the finished article. Haye is. So I expect him to get caught in learning fights. What he learned is that he has the heart of a champion and balls like melons to continue. Our other younger HW hope capitulated like a ratchet ho looking at dollar bills. Fury went to brawl with a smaller man. Bad tactics. That punch was not telegraphed. It is the favoured punch of Lewis and many other great boxers who have knocked out many top class fighters with that type of punch.

Yeah, you don't like Fury. I get it so denigrate everything about him.

i dont like fury? you telling me my own personal opinions now? its part of all his faults that makes him entertaining! bit like watching khan, talks a lot of rubbish out of the ring but you cant deny his fights are entertaining

You claim that Fury is chinny yet deny the same for Haye despite Haye being decked more times than Fury and against smaller guys. Plus you made excuses for Haye being decked yet offer only criticisms for Fury being decked. In short at each stage you give Haye some latitude but none for Fury. Hardly a fair assessment is it?

compelling and rich wrote:if haye got caught by "that" punch by cunningham then no he wouldn't be stood up, but haye wouldn't have been caught by such a telegraphed punch

i dont think fury is that chinny, he's just frigging useless at getting out of the way of massive over hand rights, even crusiers can throw hurtful shots if you stand in front of them and fury is rubbish at getting out of the way

what bit of me saying i dont think fury is that chinny is me calling him chinny??    

And the rest? Making all the excuses for Haye being decked? Off balance, knackered etc.

Can't see anything but a Haye win. Haye is equal or better in every single department except size, how Az can predict an easy night for Fury is beyond my understanding, even the most ardent Fury fan must accept that he is going to have to perform far better than he has is any fight to date to stand a chance, unless Truss has got it right and Haye bottles it against bigger men, but his choice of sparring partners suggests that he really wants this one.
Have to admit though that my utter distain for Fury may be blinding me somewhat, and if he wins I'll eat humble pie, but please, please don't let it come to that, it might just be the straw that breaks the camels back interns of my love for the sport.

The way I see it is that Haye has reached his pinnacle. He will not get any better.

Fury has shown vast improvement from the bambi like guy who beat Chisora to the more accomplished boxer who fought Kingpin. He has shown a decent punch variety but is liable to brain fart at any time. But he is improving. He is not a fool and will follow a formula especially if he is winning. Haye will have to take risks. Those risks may in all likelihood pay off because at this stage, he is the better all round boxer. But I reckon Fury has other gears to go up. Whether those gears will be enough remains to be ween. But one thing is that it will not be a walk in the park as many seem to think on here.

Haye may have the better physique, but this is not a body beautiful contest. Haye has more skills and as Floyd says, skills pays the bills. But Haye is no Floyd and can;t fight in the pocket. His inactivity will cost him. You cannot replicate a real fight in sparring however intense those sparring sessions may be.

Still backing Fury.

Fury has a chance but he'll have to learn from the Cunningham fight........

and follow Wlad's blueprint.........

Seems a bit dopey to do that.......but who knows...Be better for Brit and world boxing If he does win

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:bhb the only one who has a points margin........

Make sure you stick the boot into us If it goes twelve Mate.....

Because we won't forget If it doesn't !!!!  

I still think it is an early night for Haye but could see him taking his foot off the gas if it goes past 6. In the cup, i'll go for eko

What has goat herding got to do with boxing. More bile from the runt.

If Fury tries to make it a fight which is the only way he can win , Haye obliterates him with ease. Haye ko2.

azania wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:To be fair az, he's never been KO'd. Got decked, sure, and ran out of gas against Thompson but nobody's kept him there on the canvas. I'd imagine his recuperation powers are on a par with Fury's. I just see Haye's relentless pressure and combinations to finish it once he has his man hurt will be the deciding factor. He won't miss an opportunity.

When has Haye pressured someone relentlessly?

Az what I was meaning when I said relentless pressure is when Haye has his man hurt and knows he can finish him off. He doesn't relentlessly pressure his opponent throughout the fight normally. I just can't see this fight lasting long as Fury does not have the skills.

Lance wrote:

azania wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

azania wrote:It wouldn't surprise me if he came out as a leftie. I think you guys are underestimating Fury's skills. The Cunny fight was the best thing to happen to him because it was the first time he headlined in USA and the hype got to him. That experience and that he got bounced and wobbled will do him a power of good in this fight. Also he has Cunny as a sparring partner who is very similar to Haye. He is to intelligent to allow himself to make the same mistakes as he did in that fight.

Haye is chinny and will always chinny. Fury KO. Easy night for him.

Yeah cos he was dropped by some slob prior to getting decked by Cunningham wasn't he so clearly lessons learned are not Fury's strong point.

So no boxer ever gets decked by lesser opponents. Do you actually watch boxing or just trying to score points.

that must be a rhetorical question Az. we all know the answer  

Missed this little gem from the Chuckle Brothers last night...you talk about Fury being too intelligent to make the same mistakes he made in the Cunningham fight and I point out that if he was as smart as you claim, he wouldn't have been decked by Cunningham as he'd have learned his lessons for the previous occasion when he was dropped. Cue Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dumber talking about lesser opponents and point scoring opportunities. No need to score points when you are the intellectual equivalent of a Fury self uppercut.

azania wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azania wrote:Funny how people are now showing some love for Fury. How things change.

Here's hoping the full time boxer sends the part time boxer into retirement. I want Fury to win and am backing him to win. When have we seen Haye come in all guns blazing? Even against a passive Audley he was scared to engage until he realised Audley was too petrified to throw anything in return.

1. Why does Haye need to go all guns blazing? Only takes 1 punch at HW level, especially when you've got probably the second hardest hitter in the division versus one of its weakest chins.

2. Where's your proof he was scared to engage with Audley? He did what, arguably, he should to against Fury.  He's got the speed, the power and the elusiveness - why blaze in? Just wait for his opportunity, for that opening the Fury's chin which will inevitably come, then end it.

Are you trying to be a WUM or something? A boxer who looks for that one punch KO will lose a decision. If Haye tries to rely on a one punch KO like he did against Wlad he will lose big time.

Did you see the first 2 rounds against Audley? Everyone blames Audley, but what did Haye do in those rounds? Pose as if he was on the front cover of GQ.

Elusiveness? ie running out of harms way. Yeah very elusive. Strictly come dancing stylie. Haye isn't too strong in the chin department. After all he got sent to queer street by a blown up SMW. A guy who is not known in a Bulawayo shabeen.

HAHAHAHA possibly the most ironic comment ever.

Try not being such a Muppet all the time and you might be able to see the wood from the trees once in a while, Az.

1. I never said wait for 1 punch. I said 1 punch is all it takes, and that he doesn't need to blaze in 'guns and glory' style to get it.
2. Ahhh, good ol' Az the contrarian - christ your life must be dull. The whole world blames Audley for good reason, but no, you must take the opposite opinion. Audley was too scared to throw, Haye knew he need him to open up before he went in for the kill (he and Booth explained this tactic fully), therefore he was patient and waited for the opening he knew had to come at some point = boxing101.

azania wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

azania wrote:It wouldn't surprise me if he came out as a leftie. I think you guys are underestimating Fury's skills. The Cunny fight was the best thing to happen to him because it was the first time he headlined in USA and the hype got to him. That experience and that he got bounced and wobbled will do him a power of good in this fight. Also he has Cunny as a sparring partner who is very similar to Haye. He is to intelligent to allow himself to make the same mistakes as he did in that fight.

Haye is chinny and will always chinny. Fury KO. Easy night for him.

Similar, but considerably worse.  Slower, powerless and, I think, older.

We all know you're just a WUM, Az, so will take your silliness in good humour - and there's plenty of that in that absurd post.

When Haye get's dropped by people with 28% and 38% ko ratios, then I'll start to worry about his chin.  The fact an infinitely more talented and athletic champ with 80%+ ko ratio couldn't do it means I won't be losing any sleep.

Haye got decked by a Zimbabwean goat herder fighting 30lbs above him prime.

As a 6 fight novice?? Hopkins lost his first fight, should we write him off too, Az? stretching Az, stretching.....

tunes666 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:
1. Why does Haye need to go all guns blazing? Only takes 1 punch at HW level, especially when you've got probably the second hardest hitter in the division versus one of its weakest chins.

To be fair name a Heavyweight fighter Haye has KOed with one punch?

By your definition there's very few power punches in boxing then since the vast majority of stoppages are TKOs not KOs.

Haye flattened Chisora, a guy Fury couldn't even dent and Vitali couldn't finish. To me that is power. As is the fact he is the only man to have ever even wobbled Valuev. Using the big freak as a power yardstick is like saying George Foreman wasn't that powerful because he couldn't drop Chuvalo.

azania wrote:Here we go again. Reading the poster and not the words.

1) I haven't put down Haye's record. Just his style.
2) Haye was dropped badly by a blown up SMW.
3) Fury was caught square and flush by HWs and got decked.
4) Haye was decked (incorrectly called a slip) by Barret
5) Haye was wobbled by Ruiz
6) Fury has better stamina
7) Haye is more of a runner than elusive (my opinion)
8.) Both have dodgy chins. To suggest Haye has a granite chin or even a solid chin is ridiculous. I am not saying his chin is Khan level, but I'd say both have Groves like chin.

But of course it is wumming of the highest not to suggest that Fury is a skill free boxer who is chinny. Carry on.

Haha, how to undermine yourself in one post.

Accused of making the most of all things Fury and undermining all things Haye and your response is to say Haye got 'dropped badly' (evidence please??) by a 'blown up' SMW whereas Fury was just unlucky to be 'caught square and flush'. Chuck in a load of other falsities and you've just confirmed everyone else's view of you as just a wumming little Tinkywinky

azania wrote:Are you forgetting the number of times he has been bounced and wobbled?

Are you just making them up??

Twit.

PS: if anyone wants to laugh at Az some more, here is the video of Haye getting 'badly dropped' and other associated Az hyperbole by Lolenga Mock. Notice 6 fight novice Haye fighting like he learnt not to after the Thompson affair, even if it did get him a kd in the first round, and then getting his legs jellied in EXACTLY the same manner and extent as any of Fury's times, followed by getting up and handing out a beating (TKO4, not a laboured points win as Az suggests).

http://sosoboxing.com/boxing-video-watch-online/david-haye-vs-lolenga-mock/

I actually agree with Az in the sense that, even relative to his size, Haye probably has an ok chin at best. Against a much bigger man, I don't think his chin will be great at all. Put short, he won't be exchanging shots with Fury if he can help it.

But, to be honest, there aren't many HWs who can take shots from another big man. HW is the classic 'one punch changes everything' division. I'd say Fury doesn't have a great chin either, particularly relative to his size, although he does seem tough enough to get back up and recover quickly. Against a finisher like Haye - regardless of whether it's with one punch or with a flurry (which is a nonsense semantic argument by the way) - I'm sure not he'd be given the chance to recover if he goes down.

To be honest, the things that Az is slagging Haye off for i.e. chin, stamina, running all have a degree of truth. It's just the hyperbole that goes with the statements - coupled with a quick glossing over of Fury's faults - that make most of this discussion so annoying. I do expect Haye to run, circle, and look frantic at times. I do expect him to look scared of the bigger man at times. But I also expect that he'll be at such a speed and reflexes advantage that he'll be able to both potshot and land big overhand rights. I just don't see Fury's jab and his understanding of distance keeping Haye off.

Fury has improved a lot recently. Maybe he can show us something different and jab Haye at distance. Maybe he'll be able to corner and smother him, which I think is his most likely successful approach. But, based on what I've seen so far, this is still unlikely. As Rowley said earlier, Haye just needs to do what he does. Fury needs to come in with something new and improved.

TopHat24/7 wrote:PS: if anyone wants to laugh at Az some more, here is the video of Haye getting 'badly dropped' and other associated Az hyperbole by Lolenga Mock.  Notice 6 fight novice Haye fighting like he learnt not to after the Thompson affair, even if it did get him a kd in the first round, and then getting his legs jellied in EXACTLY the same manner and extent as any of Fury's times, followed by getting up and handing out a beating (TKO4, not a laboured points win as Az suggests).

http://sosoboxing.com/boxing-video-watch-online/david-haye-vs-lolenga-mock/

Cheers Toppy but we all know Az hates David Haye almost as much as Strongback does. All things being equal and going true to form (as they generally do in boxing) Haye should win this relatively easily. Fury's shown nothing in his previous fights to suggest he's learned enough in eight weeks to outsmart, out box, out fox, out speed, out manouvre or out punch Haye. It would be one of the biggest shocks in recent years if he was to do it and whilst I agree with the suggestion that should he catch Haye cleanly Haye will be in trouble, I simply don't see Fury being smart enough to either create that chance or exploit any holes in Haye's defence.

However, let's not let commonsense and logic get in the way of stupidity on the part of a few posters looking for a bit of verbal.

TopHat24/7 wrote:PS: if anyone wants to laugh at Az some more, here is the video of Haye getting 'badly dropped' and other associated Az hyperbole by Lolenga Mock.  Notice 6 fight novice Haye fighting like he learnt not to after the Thompson affair, even if it did get him a kd in the first round, and then getting his legs jellied in EXACTLY the same manner and extent as any of Fury's times, followed by getting up and handing out a beating (TKO4, not a laboured points win as Az suggests).

http://sosoboxing.com/boxing-video-watch-online/david-haye-vs-lolenga-mock/

Terrible stoppage

Basically, for Fury to win he needs to show something he's never in his career shown before.

For Haye to win he just needs to do what he's always done.

Remove the hyperbole and that's the stripped back objective answer to the question.

Can Fury win? Yes, I'm sure can. Is he likely to win? Not in my opinion, I've seen no evidence to suggest he's likely to. 25:75 in Haye's favour for me.

Boxtthis wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:PS: if anyone wants to laugh at Az some more, here is the video of Haye getting 'badly dropped' and other associated Az hyperbole by Lolenga Mock.  Notice 6 fight novice Haye fighting like he learnt not to after the Thompson affair, even if it did get him a kd in the first round, and then getting his legs jellied in EXACTLY the same manner and extent as any of Fury's times, followed by getting up and handing out a beating (TKO4, not a laboured points win as Az suggests).

http://sosoboxing.com/boxing-video-watch-online/david-haye-vs-lolenga-mock/

Terrible stoppage

Guy was taking a beating, but he looked fine to continue all the same. Typical stuff really.

Still, at least an illegal shot wasn't required to get Haye out of trouble (which he wasn't in anyway), and personally I can forgive a novice for getting sloppy. Point is he's learnt. Question is has Fury??

TopHat24/7 wrote:Basically, for Fury to win he needs to show something he's never in his career shown before.

For Haye to win he just needs to do what he's always done.

Remove the hyperbole and that's the stripped back objective answer to the question.

Can Fury win? Yes, I'm sure can. Is he likely to win? Not in my opinion, I've seen no evidence to suggest he's likely to. 25:75 in Haye's favour for me.

Agree with this, apart from the percentage. I'd put Fury's chances at about half that.

Can't believe how the Haye speed and power thing is being peddled again. I know he possesses it, but I remember similar predictions fir the Wlad fight. Wlad has a glass jaw, Haye way too fast and powerful, etc., etc. Haye is like a heavyweight Hamed for me, fast powerful and unorthodox, but lacks sound boxing fundamentals. If Fury is capable of boxing a competent fight, he will win this on points. You lot always pick the puncher to win, but boxing isn't that simple. Fury on points.

Haye is a better boxer too, but cheers for the pep talk.

Well, I guess I don't see that. He's a raider, I don't think he can fight on the inside. I realise it's a big if, but if Fury keeps his head and sticks to a plan, he'll win on points.

owen10ozzy wrote:
I'm not saying he has one punch power, but I am saying that in my eyes at least he has shown he has better power than that of Fury...who for a man of his size does lack genuine hurtful punches.

Fair point, I just think if we are talking about punch for punch I think a Haye bomb is no bigger than a Fury bomb only he is much quicker and will hit you with another two bombs right after where Fury does not have the same speed. Haye is very explosive and quick, But when he faces bigger guys I have not really seen him able to get his punches of after he does connect because the bigger guy uses the size and weight to smother him and also he has more distance to make up while getting closer .. Audley was the only one he really got to and that's because Audley froze as per usual... I am not sure Fury will be as defensive and easily put down as Audley..

The big question in this fight is if Fury gets tagged is he going to have enough wits to protect him self and use his size on Haye, People brush off Cunningham but Cunningham trained as a Heavyweight for that fight and actually caught Fury with a square on punch after the knock down which connected beautifully and which Fury absorbed and held on, So for me its not out of the question that when being more cautious of Hayes power Fury could even take the odd shot. But that for me is the deciding factor of the fight as if he can weather the odd blow then I think Haye gets in big trouble.

SugarRayBray wrote:Well, I guess I don't see that. He's a raider, I don't think he can fight on the inside. I realise it's a big if, but if Fury keeps his head and sticks to a plan, he'll win on points.

Haye may not be able to fight on the inside but why would he against these giants? All they're going to do is lean on him & drain his strength [Wlad & Vit do it all the time & the referees never warn them about it].
The only advantage Fury has is size & THAT'S IT! Poor boxing skills, awful footwork, lazy jab, little discipline.
Can't see anything other than Haye ko inside 5.
But apparently there is now a rumour that Haye has pulled out due to a cut.

KC wrote:

SugarRayBray wrote:Well, I guess I don't see that. He's a raider, I don't think he can fight on the inside. I realise it's a big if, but if Fury keeps his head and sticks to a plan, he'll win on points.

Haye may not be able to fight on the inside but why would he against these giants? All they're going to do is lean on him & drain his strength [Wlad & Vit do it all the time & the referees never warn them about it].
The only advantage Fury has is size & THAT'S IT! Poor boxing skills, awful footwork, lazy jab, little discipline.
Can't see anything other than Haye ko inside 5.
But apparently there is now a rumour that Haye has pulled out due to a cut.

I think to win this he will me to be able to compete on the inside. I think the main reason Cunningham was able to trouble Fury so much is because he wasn't scared to get involved up close, he also has a way higher and busier work rate than Haye. I think Fury has good skills when he chooses to use them as well as underrated footwork for such a big man.

Not surprised if the fight is off, Haye has a history of this...

hahahaha! God some people! He has a cut for christ sake...the evidence is there should you want to see it...just go on twitter! Pictures and all for those who love to conjure up conspiracy theories.

If it wasn't genuine the fight wouldn't be off....you 'fans' do realise that it ha to be postponed with the permission and sanction of the governing bodies etc so Haye would have had to have seen a doctor from the BBBofC.

Trolls are out in full force today obviously!

Not saying it isn't genuine, but he seems injury prone for some reason.

Sean you missed the option of fight postponed due to cut. School boy error. :-)

So was Calzaghe...so is Martinez...so is Barker...plenty of fighters in the same boat but as soon as it's Haye it's a case of he's running scared. I could understand if he did it just the once and had no prior as that would say he perhaps is...

But he got injured in the build up to Charr...Wladamir with back injury (he went on to fight him)..

So it's not like he won't step into the ring with people. It's a cut...it happens...sad that it has as I was looking forward to it..but will be rearranged and still go ahead.

Char didnt sell and Wladimir was because setanta copped it. But this one is fair enough - unless he really was sparring without headgear.

Soooooo annoying!

But that's a huge gash, never gonna heal in time and 1 bunch could open it up. If do then given its location it'll be a fight ender.

Fair play to Haye, he shouldn't have to fight with a serious handicap.

*punch

Why shouldnt he TopHat -

Fury is....poor chin, lumbering Jab and an ability to knock himself out...

owen10ozzy wrote:Why shouldnt he TopHat -

Fury is....poor chin, lumbering Jab and an ability to knock himself out...

 
Well, if I wanted to be pedantic...